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From the units table (u v in calc):
tsp 492892159375 10^-11 ml Teaspoon
These aren't quite friendly too
galUK 454609 10^-5 L UK Gallon ga 980665 10^-5 m / s^2 "g" acceleration
Not sure where to draw the line, e.g. giving the exact value of c in m/s is common, but at least the "Teaspoon" should be changed to
tsp 4.92892159375 ml Teaspoon
David
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In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.3 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.11) of 2008-09-15 on robotron Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10402000 configured using `configure '--prefix=/home/dhansen' '--disable-sound' '--disable-pop' '--without-gpm' '--without-toolkit-scroll-bars' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk''
Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default-enable-multibyte-characters: t
Major mode: Fundamental
Minor modes in effect: erc-list-mode: t erc-menu-mode: t erc-ring-mode: t erc-pcomplete-mode: t erc-netsplit-mode: t erc-spelling-mode: t erc-truncate-mode: t erc-smiley-mode: t erc-irccontrols-mode: t erc-noncommands-mode: t erc-move-to-prompt-mode: t erc-readonly-mode: t erc-scrolltobottom-mode: t erc-services-mode: t erc-networks-mode: t erc-autojoin-mode: t erc-track-mode: t erc-track-minor-mode: t erc-match-mode: t erc-button-mode: t erc-fill-mode: t erc-stamp-mode: t global-visible-mark-mode: t which-function-mode: t show-paren-mode: t iswitchb-mode: t window-number-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t global-auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t abbrev-mode: 1 view-mode: t
Recent input: <tab> p <backspace> f u <tab> <return> C-x d ~ / M e d <tab> p <tab> <M-backspace> P <tab> i <backspace> <return> RET C-x k <return> C-n RET C-x k <return> C-n RET C-x k <return> C-n C-p d x y RET C-x k <return> C-n C-p r M-f M-f M-b C-b <M-backspace> s p a c e - o f - a i d s C-c C-c RET C-x k <return> C-n RET C-x k <return> C-x k <return> C-x b g t <return> C-x b g r o <return> g C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-o RET d q C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-l C-n C-n C-n RET d SPC q g C-h i m C-g d m c a l <tab> <return> C-s u n i <return> <return> SPC SPC SPC M-x c l a <backspace> <backspace> a l <tab> c <tab> <return> u l u C-g C-x o C-x o C-n C-n C-n C-n M-< C-s l i s t C-a l C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n RET C-x o u v C-s c u p C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n M-b C-u C-f C-u C-f C-u C-f C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-f C-a M-< C-s s p p <backspace> o o n C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s M-b M-b M-b M-b M-b C-u C-f C-u C-f C-u C-f C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-a C-SPC C-g C-f C-a C-SPC C-e M-w M-x r e p <tab> o r <tab> e m a <tab> b <tab> <return>
Recent messages: Formatting units table...done Type M-x calc to return to the Calculator Mark saved where search started Mark set Mark saved where search started Auto-saving...done Mark set Quit Mark activated Making completion list...
The values are stored that way, instead of as a float, when they are exact.
> is common, but at least the "Teaspoon" should be changed to
> tsp 4.92892159375 ml Teaspoon
I'll add optional element to the `math-standard-units' entries that will determine how to display the definition in the table, so the tsp definition will be displayed as in the second case above. (I don't want to change the definition or have the table display all fractions as floats, so I'll have Calc determine how to display the entry on a case by case basis.) Perhaps there should also be an indicator in the displayed table telling whether the definition is exact or not.
The values are stored that way, instead of as a float, when they are exact.
> is common, but at least the "Teaspoon" should be changed to
> tsp 4.92892159375 ml Teaspoon
I'll add optional element to the `math-standard-units' entries that will determine how to display the definition in the table, so the tsp definition will be displayed as in the second case above. (I don't want to change the definition or have the table display all fractions as floats, so I'll have Calc determine how to display the entry on a case by case basis.) Perhaps there should also be an indicator in the displayed table telling whether the definition is exact or not.
>> The values are stored that way, instead of as a float, when they are >> exact.
> What exactly is "exact"?
"Exact" means exactly "exact". :)
> Just to be a bit pedantic: the "meter" (and therefore every measure of > length/surface/volume) is *not* exact, it's an experimentally > determined quantity (the length that light travels 1/299792458 > seconds).
Right, so when the Calc units table says that c = 299792458 m/s, that is exact by definition. Many units are defined in terms of other units, and then the values given in the units table are exact. It's only conversions between two experimentally determined quantities (such as an astronomical unit and a meter) that are necessarily inexact.
When the units table is displayed, having a conversion factor that is a float indicates that it isn't exact; if conversion factors like that between a tsp and ml are going to be displayed as a float, then there needs to be another indicator that some values are not exact.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:26:54 -0500 Jay Belanger wrote:
> David Hansen <david.han...@gmx.net> writes: > ... >>>>From the units table (u v in calc):
>> tsp 492892159375 10^-11 ml Teaspoon
> The values are stored that way, instead of as a float, when they are > exact.
What exactly is "exact"? Just to be a bit pedantic: the "meter" (and therefore every measure of length/surface/volume) is *not* exact, it's an experimentally determined quantity (the length that light travels 1/299792458 seconds).
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:26:54 -0500 Jay Belanger wrote:
> David Hansen <david.han...@gmx.net> writes: > ... >>>>From the units table (u v in calc):
>> tsp 492892159375 10^-11 ml Teaspoon
> The values are stored that way, instead of as a float, when they are > exact.
What exactly is "exact"? Just to be a bit pedantic: the "meter" (and therefore every measure of length/surface/volume) is *not* exact, it's an experimentally determined quantity (the length that light travels 1/299792458 seconds).
> David Hansen <david.han...@gmx.net> writes: > ... >>> The values are stored that way, instead of as a float, when they are >>> exact.
>> What exactly is "exact"?
> "Exact" means exactly "exact". :)
>> Just to be a bit pedantic: the "meter" (and therefore every measure of >> length/surface/volume) is *not* exact, it's an experimentally >> determined quantity (the length that light travels 1/299792458 >> seconds).
> Right, so when the Calc units table says that c = 299792458 m/s, that is > exact by definition. Many units are defined in terms of other units, > and then the values given in the units table are exact. It's only > conversions between two experimentally determined quantities (such as an > astronomical unit and a meter) that are necessarily inexact.
I think I get it now. But why is "Troy ounce" or "Horsepower" marked as inexact?
The "year" looks weird too. The only year that is 365.25d long is AFAIK the "Julian Year" and this is *defined* to be that long.
> When the units table is displayed, having a conversion factor that is a > float indicates that it isn't exact; if conversion factors like that > between a tsp and ml are going to be displayed as a float, then there > needs to be another indicator that some values are not exact.
That would be nice. The unit table is incredible important to read cooking recipes, now imagine you make a mistake by a whole order of magnitude :)
> David Hansen <david.han...@gmx.net> writes: > ... >>> The values are stored that way, instead of as a float, when they are >>> exact.
>> What exactly is "exact"?
> "Exact" means exactly "exact". :)
>> Just to be a bit pedantic: the "meter" (and therefore every measure of >> length/surface/volume) is *not* exact, it's an experimentally >> determined quantity (the length that light travels 1/299792458 >> seconds).
> Right, so when the Calc units table says that c = 299792458 m/s, that is > exact by definition. Many units are defined in terms of other units, > and then the values given in the units table are exact. It's only > conversions between two experimentally determined quantities (such as an > astronomical unit and a meter) that are necessarily inexact.
I think I get it now. But why is "Troy ounce" or "Horsepower" marked as inexact?
The "year" looks weird too. The only year that is 365.25d long is AFAIK the "Julian Year" and this is *defined* to be that long.
> When the units table is displayed, having a conversion factor that is a > float indicates that it isn't exact; if conversion factors like that > between a tsp and ml are going to be displayed as a float, then there > needs to be another indicator that some values are not exact.
That would be nice. The unit table is incredible important to read cooking recipes, now imagine you make a mistake by a whole order of magnitude :)
> I think I get it now. But why is "Troy ounce" or "Horsepower" marked as > inexact?
Good question. I checked the reference I used on horsepower, and it gave several versions, some of which were listed as exact. Wikipedia led me to the AT&T Numericana page, where an exact value of horsepower (in terms of watts) was given. (This does not match any of the exact values given by the Encyclopaedia of Scientific Units, alas.) The Numericana page does mention different versions of horsepower, but implies there's a canonical one. Perhaps this version and the metric horsepower should both be included; they both have exact values. I'll go through the units and double check all the approximations, putting in the exact values when possible.
>> When the units table is displayed, having a conversion factor that is a >> float indicates that it isn't exact; if conversion factors like that >> between a tsp and ml are going to be displayed as a float, then there >> needs to be another indicator that some values are not exact.
> That would be nice. The unit table is incredible important to read > cooking recipes, now imagine you make a mistake by a whole order of > magnitude :)
Sorry about that. I'll have the display fixed this weekend, or Monday evening at the latest.
> tsp 492892159375 10^-11 ml Teaspoon ... > tsp 4.92892159375 ml Teaspoon
This has been fixed in CVS. I still need to go through the units and see which additional units can be made exact and some other tweaking, but this display weirdness has been fixed.
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