[GMCnet] Urethane vs rubber suspension bushings
MICHAEL FOSTER
What are pros and cons of urethane vs rubber suspension bushings for our GMC's.
In my Porsche 356 urethane is much stiffer and therefore ride is stiffer and urethane has tendency to squeek. Has anyone noticed this with GMC's.
Michael
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George Rudawsky
I also have been playing with Porsches for the past 35 years (and still do), and the bushing issues are still ongoing in those circles. I think the only reason to use derlin or other plastic bushings in a GMC would be that an original type rubber bushing is unavailable. The plastic bushings do give a better feel and tighter tolerances for suspension components (which may be of benefit in a racing Porsche), but would just transmit more ride harshness and noise to the GMC.
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
Rob Mueller
When I bought Double Trouble it had rubber bushing in the upper and lower
control arms. I drove it from Philly to Bangor to Niagara Falls to Orlando
with rubber bushings.
At the COOP I rebuilt the suspension and put in a set of Steve Ferguson's
reinforced lower control arms with Urethane bushings and offset rubber
bushings in the upper arms. I didn't notice additional road noise.
I have Khumo AT tires on my GMC which are supposedly noisier than HT tires.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Larry Davick
Could you comment on how the ride felt?
Thanks,
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
Steven Ferguson
I have also switched autos over to all urethane suspension and dearly
regretted it. Pebbles caused fillings to drop out in a 70 Nova SS I
put together. I absolutely hated it.
Now put 5,000 lbs on those same bushings. All the squirm is gone,
none of the road irregularity transfer. I have well over a hundred
sets out there and the only feedback I have gotten is positive. I use
them myself and never, ever, feel the harshness you would feel in an
automobile.
Pros: It's the best replacement out there for the finishing touch on
a perfect suspension. No more squirm, better steering response and on
and on.
Cons: Having to carry around all that extra cash you've save from
being able to do the job yourself with no special tools, paying little
more for an entire set than a single lower costs. Having your wife
want to drive.
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Rob Mueller
I didn't notice any difference in the ride either.
I think we need to take into consideration the weight difference between a
GMC and a Toronado.
I'm not sure of the logic of what follows but:
The weight on the front end of a GMC is spec'd at max of 4,200 pounds in the
Operating Manual. That means each bushing is carrying a load of 1050 pounds.
According to the howstuffworks website the heaviest Toronado was 4838
pounds.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1971-1978-oldsmobile-toronado6.htm
Musclecar Club Website says the weight distribution was 54% front 46% rear.
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-toronado/oldsmobile-toron
ado-history.shtml
Fifty four percent of 4838 is 2612 pounds dividing that by four you would
get a loading of 653 pounds on each bushing.
That means the bushings in the GMC would be carrying a load 65% more than
the car bushings.
Assuming that the bushings used in the GMC are the same as the ones used in
a car what does all this mean?
To me it means that Urethane bushings were a good idea! Did figure all this
out before I installed the bushings, nope, I'm not that smart!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Davick
Sent: Wednesday, 4 November 2009 11:25 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Urethane vs rubber suspension bushings
Rob,
Could you comment on how the ride felt?
Thanks,
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
_______________________________________________
George Rudawsky
Steve,
Maybe the weight does make the difference. The Porsche groups have been going back and forth for years about the different materials to use for the bushings, and there are quite a few different opinions.
I've never driven a Urethane bushed GMC (or any other one than mine), so I'm glad to hear that they do not squeek or roughen the ride. They certainly do in a 2300 lb. Porsche, though you don't mind it when you're on a short, jaunty ride in the country. It gets a mite tiring after a while.
If the ride and squeeks don't occur in the GMC, there certainly is no doubt that they do a better job of keeping the suspension components in tighter tolerences.
I am glad that you folks are making aftermarket parts for these coaches, and hope that they continue improving these fine vehicles!
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
MICHAEL FOSTER
Thanks for the imput!
fred veenschoten
Steve, are your bushings offset for camber?
i was at an alignment shop for toe setting and the coach in front of me was having problems getting his set up right. the mechanic was talking about Urethane bushings solving the problem as they allow more accurate setting of the alignment and it stays there.
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
Steven Ferguson
No one will make an offset urethane bushng for the upper a arms.
There would have to be a special sleeve made that would prevent them
from turning and no such sleeve exists. Since the upper a arms lead a
charmed life compared to the lowers, using OEM style rubber ones in
the forward position on the A arm and MOOG offsets in the rear
position should not present any reduced longevity problems. The
uppers outlast the lowers by almost double in the OEM installations.
Same for the upper balljoints. I no longer carry urethane uppers.
The extra caster gain by using an offset (only available in rubber)
bushing seems to be the way everyone wants to set up their GMCs.
The offset MOOG bushings were designed for additional Camber gains.
As some vehicles age, frame "sag" occurs allowing proper camber
adjustments to be made at the expense of additional negative caster.
Exactly opposite of what we want in our GMCs. By installing the
offset MOOG upper bushing exactly backwards of the included
instructions, you will realize additional caster gains. On good
frames some have gained as much as 3 deg of additional caster while
still maintaining zero camber.
Your mechanic was correct but with rubber bushings in good condition,
you should be able to properly align your front suspension.
I will say this again, if your coach has the original bushings in the
lower control arms, they are worn beyond service.
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 6:46 AM, fred veenschoten <fred...@cox.net> wrote:
Steve, are your bushings offset for camber?
i was at an alignment shop for toe setting and the coach in front of
me was having problems getting his set up right. the mechanic was
talking about Urethane bushings solving the problem as they allow more
accurate setting of the alignment and it stays there.
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Carl Stouffer
My major GMC project for the month of September was to rebuild the front end. With Help and parts from Steve F and Dave L, I installed new ball joints, bushings (urethane on the lowers offset on the upper rears) and reconditioned knuckle/hub assemblies. I also had Jim K send me new "Energy Suspension" sway bar bushings and end links (also urethane). Upon finishing the project, I had the front end aligned and then proceded to drive the coach to the GMCMI rally in Pueblo. I did not notice any change in the ride other that the fact that it is now nice and tight. No squeaking or other noise either. That trip was about 1600 miles.
I also replaced all the bushings in the suspension on my '87 Jeep Cherokee a few years ago. Because of the unibody design, I stayed with rubber except for the bushings on the Rancho lower control arms. Again, not much of a noticable difference other than tightening everything up. The GMC Motorhome's body on frame design lends itsself well to urethane due to the isolation pads between the body and frame. As steve pointed out, the pros far outweigh the cons (none).
--
Carl S.
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Wall, Mark
I was one of the first to run urethane and have it on my uppers and
lowers. No noise and less torsional twist on the arms when accelerating
but I don't have many miles on them either. Also, I spoke with the
bushing manufacturers when I was deciding on what to do and they were
clear that the current available rubber bushings were not designed for
the GMC's weight. Don't know about what the Jims are selling are but the
tech support people were pretty clear on that point. The Energy
Suspension people designed theirs for the GMC.
All of that said, their seem to be a lot of people running with new
rubber bushings without problems even with the extra GMC weight.
Just what I found out and did.
Mark Wall
76 E2
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of George Rudawsky
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:14 PM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Urethane vs rubber suspension bushings
Les Burt
brake parts that they want to part with?
I need the rear caliper mounting plates and if possible the rear calipers.
Thanks,
Les Burt
Larry
Les Burt wrote on Mon, 09 November 2009 22:21
Les,
FWIW, a fella by the name of John Biwersi...lives in St. Paul MN.... I think has what you need. Contact him at:
mailto:jbiw...@mac.com
Tell him I sent you.
--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Les Burt
I'll try contacting him.
Les Burt
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: November 10, 2009 11:11 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Les Burt
Are they the smaller calipers(79+ GM) like the TSM system, or are they the
large 76-78 Eldorado rear calipers?
Thanks,
Les Burt
Jim Kanomata
If nothing else, we can give you pointers on this set up as there are
some small issues we yet have not fully overcome and lot of tricks
that we learned from all tat have input to up.
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Les Burt <burt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thanks Larry,
> I'll try contacting him.
>
> Les Burt
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
> Sent: November 10, 2009 11:11 AM
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] eldorado rear brake parts
>
>
>
> Les Burt wrote on Mon, 09 November 2009 22:21
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Jim Kanomata
the 65mm (76-78 Eldo) . They all use the same bolting pattern.
Reaction arm system has very little to do with sizes. It is all about
transferring the forces to where you end up with maximum traction at
the tire.
Once you have our system, you will be able to go to the reaction arm
system with minimal changes.
Should you have more questions on the systems, feel free to call me on
the 800 line .
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Larry Davick
I don't want to put you on the spot, and maybe others can chime in,
but is it your feeling that with Chuck's reaction arm the size of the
rear disks is less important?
I suppose I should have first asked if size = $$.
Ljdavick at comcast.net
Jim Kanomata
80mm on all 4 rear wheels without the back 2 sliding.
We were running the front with 80mm caliper.
Oh, The disc/rotors we use are more than ample and will help allow
more cooling air and you need not worry about needing a special hub if
you need to replace them.
Terry Skinner
--
Terry Skinner
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
larry.whisler
How much do the various bushings cost?
rubber, urethane and offset?
larry whisler
Carleton Douglas
--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
Rick Denney
> I wonder why there are no pictures posted of this set-up?? Did I miss them??
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/ultimate_rear_brakes/index.html
Rick "needing to win the Lottery" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Terry Skinner
unsprung weight. Are there any pictures of what Jim K is selling or is
it the same thing??.......Terry
--
Terry Skinner
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
Jay Fox
I have one of my coach's up on blocks to redo the front end new bushings brakes shocks and bearings. Is there a complete Urethane bushing Kit
--
Jay Fox
Calgary AB Canada
73 Painted Desert (Turtle)
Wifes 75 Transmode (Unutter1)
78 Transmode (Donor)
Official Club Haulers
http://www.amra.ca
http://www.amra.ca/Club%20Hauler.htm
http://www.amra.ca/Pictures/Club%20Haulers%202/
Rick Denney
> Thanks Rick. That is an interesting set-up. Quite a bit of more
> unsprung weight. Are there any pictures of what Jim K is selling or is
> it the same thing??.......Terry
As far as I know, it's the same thing or very nearly.
It has a lower ground clearance, too. But I think it would be worth
it. I'm not sure it would add much more unsprung weight than is saved
by changing from steel wheels and all-steel radials to aluminum wheels
and ragwalls.
Rick "who can't afford it in any case" Denney
Rob Mueller
Here's a picture Dan Gregg took of Chuck and the production setup at Pueblo.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=30893
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Terry Skinner
Sent: Friday, 13 November 2009 6:25 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Chuck Algur's Rear disc brake set-up
Thanks Rick. That is an interesting set-up. Quite a bit of more
unsprung weight. Are there any pictures of what Jim K is selling or is
it the same thing??.......Terry
Rob Mueller
Yes, you can get them from:
Applied GMC - Jim K
The COOP - Jim B
However, the general consensus is to use offset bushings in the upper
control arms to get more caster.
The weight of the GMC is carried by the lowers.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Jay Fox
Thanks Robert I just didn't see them in kit form anywhere, I will have to call.
Charles
contact steve ferguson for bushings
Steven Ferguson
E-mail Address(es):
botie...@gmail.com
charles
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Fox" <am...@shaw.ca>
To: <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Urethane vs rubber suspension bushings
>
>
larry.whisler
On the Energy Suspension Website I found this listing:
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/products.asp?cat=12156
Steven Ferguson
Most just use urethane in the lower arms for reducing squirm and rut
track. Use one offset upper and one OEM style upper in the upper arms
for additional caster gains. This results in a very noticible
improvement in handling and straight line driving.
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Rob Mueller
Here's a message I sent in last month:
G'day,
There are a number of good write-ups on the internet on how to install
offset bushings in the upper control arms of a GMC. The general consensus of
opinion seems to be that a GMC will handle best with as much positive caster
as you can get with as close to zero camber as possible and zero toe in or
slight toe out. Furthermore it appears that it is difficult to get much
caster in 1973 and 1974 coaches whereas later coaches 1975 thru 1978 seem to
be able to get more. Offset bushings enable one to get more caster by moving
the upper ball joint towards the REAR of the GMC.
The write-ups refer to the arrows on Moog offset bushings to assist with the
installation. John Sharpe and I recently replaced the bushings in his upper
control arms which he got from NAPA that did not have arrows on them and it
got confusing; as a matter of fact we installed the first pair incorrectly!
Fortunately we realized it when we started on the second set and corrected
our mistake.
Jim K shipped me offset bushings for The Blue Streak that did not have
arrows on them also and the fact I screwed up helping John got me wondering
whether or not I installed them correctly or not. I checked some photos of
the control arms and found that the bushings were installed correctly. The
fact that I had done it correctly on The Blue Streak yet screwed it up when
helping John made us decide to publish how to install offset bushings
whether they had arrows or not.
The upper control arms are stamped with an "L" or an "R". When you remove
them check and make sure they have been installed correctly. Yes, they can
be interchanged! We discovered this while looking at another coach! We do
not really know if it affects driveability or not but the coach had been
driven 1000's of miles with the control arms installed that way. We wondered
if swapping them could / would get you more caster so we compared them and
made some measurements. Unfortunately they were the same.
Place the Right upper control arm on your workbench with the ball joint
facing you (taper pointing down) and the bushing holes away from you; the
arm on your right is the front arm of the control arm, the arm on the left
is the rear arm.
Install the offset bushing in the front arm of the control arm so that the
hole for the adjusting bolt is as far from the ball joint as possible.
Install the offset bushing in the rear arm of the control arm so that the
hole for the adjusting bolt is as close to the ball joint as possible.
This will move the Right upper control arm ball joint rearward and enable
you to get more caster.
Place the Left upper control arm on your workbench with the ball joint
facing you (taper pointing down) and the bushing holes away from you; the
arm on your left is the front arm of the control arm, the arm on the right
is the rear arm.
Install the offset bushing in the front arm of the control arm so that the
hole for the adjusting bolt is as far from the ball joint as possible.
Install the offset bushing in the rear arm of the control arm so that the
hole for the adjusting bolt is as close to the ball joint as possible.
This will move the Left upper control arm ball joint rearward and enable you
to get more caster.
When you install the upper control arms set the control arm rear adjuster on
both sides so that the bolt is as close to the GMC frame as possible. The
cam on the adjuster eccentric will be with the high side facing out. Use the
front adjuster to set the camber to "0" degrees or as close as possible, be
advised you may not be able to get "0" degrees camber. Adjusting the camber
to the minimum will result in the maximum caster you can get on your coach.
On Double Trouble Tom Hampton was only able to get 1.9 degrees positive
caster at zero degrees camber and zero toe in/out. John got 2.0 degrees
positive caster at zero degrees camber and zero toe in/out. It would have
been possible to get more caster on the left side.
A word to the wise; when installing RUBBER control arm bushings (upper
and/or lower) a "best practice" is not to tighten the bolts that retain the
bushings in the frame brackets to the specified torque until the GMC is on
the ground with full weight on the wheels. Leave the bolts loose enough so
that the steel sleeves in the bushings can rotate on the bolts. This will
allow the steel sleeves in the bushings to rotate around the bolts and place
them in the "middle" of their operating / twisting range when tightened.
Good Luck,
Rob Mueller / John Sharpe
Sydney, Australia / Humble, Texas
Steven Ferguson
You can price this stuff on-line, no magic to it.
Energy Suspension has jacked me and my supplier around quite a bit
lately so we don't know what they cost til they fill an order. I was
very surprised to see what they're selling the kit for. BTW, the kit
they advertise on-line in no way resembles the kit for the GMC.
(Might be a generic photo).Something they haven't done very well, or
very accurately lately. I sell the lowers and can put a kit together
and include offset and OEM style uppers. You can probably get the
offset MOOG and OEM style MOOG upppers locallyfor what I pay for them
but in any case, only purchase the MOOG products. Accept no others!
No others fit the control arms as well and ALL others have fitment
problems between the washers and the bushings. There is some real
crap out there and it is an absolute ordeal making it fit as well as
the MOOG products.
Jim K normally stocks the OEM MOOG offset, and standard bushings. I
buy from him and do not like to compete with him as this is his
business and livelyhood. I buy all my urethane bushings THROUGH him
as this is my little gig. In return, he does not cut my prices which
he could easily do. For the same reason, I do not sell remanufactured
control arms to the public. I supply vendors only, Applied GMC being
my primary buyer. In return, Applied GMC buys everything I
remanufacture, pays shipping, and is responsible for core charges and
keeping me supplied with return cores. My only exception to this is
if you show up in my driveway needing a journey repair, you will leave
healed.
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Dan Gregg
if you show up in my driveway needing a journey repair, you will leave
healed.
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
[/quote]
I can certainly testify to that statement. I showed up with a broken toilet and left with a new one. What a guy.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
Larry
I have often wondered how much a good tow bar and towd with well adjusted braking system does to keeping the rear end down. I can really feel it when the towd brakes come on. My gues is that I can stop faster with my towd than I can without it. If the towd braking system is working and adjusted properly, the braking/pulling effect of the towd...I would think...should keep the rear end of the couch down and help apply more pressure to the coach's rear axle, thereby reducing its propensity to want to skid.
Just my pea brain looking at another reason to tow. :?
--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Les Burt
They are in much better condition that the early versions that are in my 75
EL2, especially since one sliding panel had been replaced with plexiglass.
Has anyone upgraded from the early windows to the late versions? Are there
any issues that I should expect to encounter during the swap?
I will need to replace some latches and sliders on some of the windows as
they are stiff to slide. I looked for info specific to the late model
windows but didn't find much. Are the latches, felt sliders and rubbers
available?
John Wright
installed windows. Other than minor variation of the latch
assemblies. They should all be the same. Tell me what the
differences are???
I have the new motorhome enhancement windows in our 77 coach and plan
on installing the "Frameless" style windows when replacing the windows
in the 75 Avion coach.
J.R. Wright
Les Burt
differences:
(quoted from Michael Bozardt)
"The early windows have an exposed gutter that the sliding window slides in,
thus subject to collecting all sorts of junk. These windows slide from the
front of the coach toward the rear.
The late windows have a rubber gasket on the outside to keep stuff out of
the gutter, but the frame is different from the early types. Also this
window slides from the rear toward the front of the GMC There is also a
difference in the latch between the early and late style windows. The
earliest I have seen the late windows is in 1976 model Edgemontes"
The Later coaches also had sink and door windows that opened instead of
the1-piece windows in the early coaches.
I thought long and hard about what window upgrade I was going to do. I
really like the look of the new "frameless" windows. The big think I dislike
about all thenewer windows is that they only have a small percentage of the
window that opens. I like the original factory windows for the sole reason
that they have a very large screened opening which is great for boondocking
where you often want lots of natural air circulation. The late model factory
windows are an improvement over the early ones, and I got mine for the cost
of shipping.
Les Burt
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Wright
Sent: November 14, 2009 6:20 PM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
John Wright
J.R.
Hal Kading
Les,
"The Later coaches also had sink and door windows that opened instead of the1-piece windows in the early coaches."
The opening sink and door windows were an option. Not all later coaches had them.
Hal Kading 77 Kingsley 455 Las Cruces NM
Terry Skinner
(lower) and everything fit...........Terry
--
Terry Skinner
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
pete
Les Burt, Contact me offline mailto:pete...@comcast.net
thanks!
Pete
--
Pete
74 Canyon Lands 26' "Emery"
Bill Bryant
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] late model windows
>
> I was unaware that there were any differences in any of the factor
> installed windows. Other than minor variation of the latch
> assemblies. They should all be the same. Tell me what the
> differences are???
>
Here are the major differences:
Early windows,
Designed by GMC, using 4-piece extruded black/anodized Al frames.
LOF glass used.
Front glass sections slide open.
Replaceable window channel matl. used for sliding glass.
Second design,
Designed by Hehr, one piece extruded Al frame.
PPG glass used.
Rear glass sections slide open.
Sink/door opening glass offered as options.
If windows rattle when open, use 2" piece of vacuum/gas hose between glass sections to quiet.
Comments:
Initial design (prototype) attempted to use a plastic frame. Difficulties in getting that design to function properly was not achieved and they went to the 4 piece Al frame.
Problems with the 4-piece frame included anodizing the 4 pieces with matching color and sealing the multi piece frame.
Initially, use of the Alunimum frame on the prototypes was to be "bright", i.e., Chrome or bright alunimum finish. A design review was coming up and the frames had not been finished. They decided to quickly paint the frames with a semi gloss black for the review. Management liked the black frames, the rest is history.
The original design for the large side window was a 3 piece glass section (can be seen in many prototype photos). It soon became obvious it is difficult to seal an exposed leading edge of glass and that design was soon discarded.
--
Bill Bryant
1976~PB
1914 Ford
1965 Corvette
GMC MH History CD
GMC Showroom Films DVD
http://bdub.net/billbryant/
Les Burt
Pete,
I tried contacting you but my e-mail bounced back.
Contact me at burtco99 at yahoo dot com
Les Burt
Montreal
Les Burt, Contact me offline mailto:pete...@comcast.net
thanks!
Pete
_______________________________________________
Jim Kanomata
They must have done it at some shop.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Jim Kanomata
He reinforces the parts on the frame that have known to have failed.
The Torsion bar socket for one is starting to split. He reinforces
them 360degrees along with several areas and uses heavier bolts to
mount the ball joints.
Since we see these on a daily bases, we are aware of what is happening
out there.
We rely on people like Steve to keep on top of what is happening.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Les Burt
At some point prior to my ownership, the dinette window sliding panel was
replaced with a piece of Plexi. I know it isn't a factory part. The PO must
have been stuck and needed a quick solution to maintain a weather tight
seal. It wouldn't pass a safety inspection here in Quebec. I can push on the
plexi and bow it outwards over an inch. If I push hard enough, I'm sure I
could pop it out of it's tracks.
Les Burt
Montreal
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14:26:00
Thomas Mike
Rob,
Great write up on Bushing replacement. Based on you comments, I think the best way to go is urethane on the lowers and offset on the uppers. Your write up suggests offset on both uppers and I see other recommend only on the upper fronts and OEM on the upper rears.
Your write up states taper pointing down. "Place the Left upper control arm on your workbench with the ball joint
facing you (taper pointing down) and the bushing holes away from you; the
arm on your left is the front arm of the control arm, the arm on the right
is the rear arm." What is the taper?
I assume I have the ball joint closest to me and ball joint nut pointing down on the bench all right side up. Or is the arm upside down that you are discussing? Ball joint nut facing up to the ceiling?
If I am reading this correctly. The front leg of the upper control arm has the cam bolt hole closest to the frame and the rear leg has the cam bolt hole closest to the ball joint.
Also, do you recommend replacing the cam bolts or just cleaning up the old ones?
Thanks
--
Mike T
Troy, MI
77 Eleganza II
Rob Mueller
Thanks for the compliment.
I will respond to your comments and questions below in CAPS.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Mike
Sent: Monday, 22 February 2010 6:18 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Urethane vs rubber suspension bushings
Rob,
Great write up on Bushing replacement. Based on you comments, I think the
best way to go is urethane on the lowers and offset on the uppers.
THAT IS WHAT I'VE DONE ON TWO COACHES. THE LOWERS CARRY THE WEIGHT.
Your write up suggests offset on both uppers and I see other recommend only
on the upper fronts and OEM on the upper rears.
IMHO THE GURU ON FRONT SUSPENSION / ALIGNMENT IS DAVE LENZI. I SPOKE WITH
HIM AT LENGTH AND HE NOTED THAT INSTALLING OFFSET BUSHINGS IN BOTH THE FRONT
AND REAR ARMS MIGHT HELP GET A BIT MORE CASTER AND IT WOULDN'T HURT. IF YOU
ARE GOING TO INSTALL ONLY ONE OFFSET IT IS BETTER TO PUT IT IN THE REAR.
HAVING SAID THAT YOU HAVE A 1977 COACH AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT YOU CAN GET
MORE CASTER ON '76 - '78 COACHES.
Your write up states taper pointing down. "Place the Left upper control arm
on your workbench with the ball joint facing you (taper pointing down) and
the bushing holes away from you; the arm on your left is the front arm of
the control arm, the arm on the right is the rear arm." What is the taper?
THE TAPER IS THE PART WITH THE THREAD ON THE END THAT GOES INTO THE KNUCKLE.
I assume I have the ball joint closest to me and ball joint nut pointing
down on the bench all right side up. Or is the arm upside down that you are
discussing? Ball joint nut facing up to the ceiling?
YES, THAT IS CORRECT, THE BALL JOINT NUT POINTING DOWN.
If I am reading this correctly. The front leg of the upper control arm has
the cam bolt hole closest to the frame and the rear leg has the cam bolt
hole closest to the ball joint.
YES, THAT IS CORRECT. THE OBJECT OF THE OFFSET BUSHINGS IS TO MOVE THE BALL
JOINT TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE COACH TO GET MORE CASTER.
Also, do you recommend replacing the cam bolts or just cleaning up the old
ones?
ON BOTH MY COACHES I JUST CLEANED THEM UP WITH A WIRE BRUSH. ALSO CLEAN THE
SURFACES THE ADJUSTING PLATES COME IN CONTACT WITH. USE A BIT OF GREASE ON
THE BOLTS AND PLATES WHEN YOU PUT EVERYTHING BACK TOGETHER AS IT WILL MAKE
THEM TURN EASIER WHEN YOU DO THE ALIGNMENT.
Thomas Mike
Steven Ferguson
Here you go:
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/Getting_Your_GMC_Under_Control.pdf
Here's the whole enchilada for control arms:
http://www.gmcws.org/tech.htm
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Thomas Mike
WOW!!
Thanks Steve. Surprised with all my surfing over the last 4 months I haven't found that.
Great presentation.
I have the uppers off but need a torsion bar unloader for the lowers. The lowers are currently supported by bottle jacks. I hope the lowers are in as good a shape as the uppers. Some of your pictures scared me.
Still trying to find a torsion bar unloader. I hate paying $125 for a tool I will only use once. But, if I gotta, I gotta. I'd rather use the $125 for more new parts for the coach.
Larry
MikeT wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 08:31
> Still trying to find a torsion bar unloader. I hate paying $125 for a tool I will only use once. But, if I gotta, I gotta. I'd rather use the $125 for more new parts for the coach.
>
> Thanks
You could always make one...here's a couple of examples:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2466&cat=3240
and
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=9162&cat=3805
HTH
--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Charles Boyd
MikeT wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 09:31
> WOW!!
>
> Thanks Steve. Surprised with all my surfing over the last 4 months I haven't found that.
>
> Great presentation.
>
> I have the uppers off but need a torsion bar unloader for the lowers. The lowers are currently supported by bottle jacks. I hope the lowers are in as good a shape as the uppers. Some of your pictures scared me.
>
> Still trying to find a torsion bar unloader. I hate paying $125 for a tool I will only use once. But, if I gotta, I gotta. I'd rather use the $125 for more new parts for the coach.
>
> Thanks
Sir: you don`t have to have an unloader tool to remove the lower A-arm. Block the frame up, put a floor jack under the lower arm, remove the shock, lower ball joint, and sway bar bolt then let the jack down slowly. It should be loose about 5 oclock. make sure and tie up the hub if you are not removing it.
with the pressure off you can remove the bolts and remove, just mark the clocking as to put it back from whence it came. If you remove the tensioner bolt, count the # of turns and wright it down. It isn`t hard, just a little agrivating the first time. be careful..
--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
Thomas Mike
Mr. Boyd, That's great advice.
I tried that with a floor jack. Got the floor jack to the lowest position and the lower control arm bottomed out on a cross member that runs across at a 45 degree angle. It was resting on that crossmember with still allot of torque. That was about the 5 o'clock position
That's why I thought I still needed the torsion bar unloader tool to release the rest of the tension. Maybe now I can just turn the torsion bar bolt and unload the rest.
Thanks
--
Mike T
Troy, MI
77 Eleganza II
Thomas Mike
You can see the crossmember I am referring to in this photo. This is not my coach just a pic from the gallery. This is to pretty to be my coach.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=30551&title=p1030539&cat=5257
Thomas Mike
Try again with the link.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=30551&title=p1030539&cat=5257
Charles Boyd
MikeT wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 11:16
> Mr. Boyd, That's great advice.
>
> I tried that with a floor jack. Got the floor jack to the lowest position and the lower control arm bottomed out on a cross member that runs across at a 45 degree angle. It was resting on that crossmember with still allot of torque. That was about the 5 o'clock position
>
> That's why I thought I still needed the torsion bar unloader tool to release the rest of the tension. Maybe now I can just turn the torsion bar bolt and unload the rest.
>
> Thanks
It has been a while since I did mine, but now I do remember removing the brace. If you do remove the bolt, clean & lube it.
--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
Steven Ferguson
Where do you live?
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Fin Beven
We were at the Pacific Cruisers rally (minimal GMC content) at the Flying Flags resort, Buellton, Ca this past weekend.
At Fred Davis's suggestion, I tried some Haitian rum.
Now, I like rum, and I must easily admit that I like this one.
If you have wondered what you could do for the people of Haiti, try drinking their rum.
http://www.bilgemunky.com/pirate-reviews/rum/rhum-barbancourt-15/<about:blank>
Fin Beven
Pasadena, CA
1976 ex-Edgemont
Steven Ferguson
Fin's Margauritas are as well known and liked as Arch's lemonade.
This post is all GMC :>)
Can't wait to see what he does with rum.
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Thomas Mike
Troy, Michigan. 20 Miles North of Detroit.
Steven Ferguson
I have a loaner but require a $100 deposit. Sounds stiff but it I
get it back, all it costs you is shipping both ways.
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
Thomas Mike
Steve,
Thanks so much for the offer. I emailed Dave Lenzi that lives about 50 miles from me. He is going to loan me his. He has two and said I need them both to adjust the ride heights.
Thanks for the offer.
George Zhookoff
George Zhookoff
78 EL II
Atlanta
----- Original Message -----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org <gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Mon Feb 22 11:26:48 2010
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Urethane vs rubber suspension bushings
MikeT wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 11:16
> Mr. Boyd, That's great advice.
>
> I tried that with a floor jack. Got the floor jack to the lowest position and the lower control arm bottomed out on a cross member that runs across at a 45 degree angle. It was resting on that crossmember with still allot of torque. That was about the 5 o'clock position
>
> That's why I thought I still needed the torsion bar unloader tool to release the rest of the tension. Maybe now I can just turn the torsion bar bolt and unload the rest.
>
> Thanks
It has been a while since I did mine, but now I do remember removing the brace. If you do remove the bolt, clean & lube it.
--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
Steven Ferguson
them is a careful process. Too close and you will bung the threads
during the adjustment procedure. Once you start, you will see exactly
what I mean.
You will also know why I require a deposit. I lent one out to a
fellow GMCer once and he destroyed it.
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/