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Dan Whaley  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 4:01 am
From: Dan Whaley <dan.wha...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 4:01 am
Subject: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html#printMode

The Climate Change Climate Change
The number of skeptics is swelling everywhere.

      By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL

Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him
on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration
proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change
legislation.

If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of
the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares
to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing
to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing
number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again
doubt the science of human-caused global warming.
[POTOMAC WATCH] Associated Press

Steve Fielding

Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic
majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system
through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting.
It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the
media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who
disagreed with them as "deniers." The backlash has brought the
scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and
even, if less reported, the U.S.

In April, the Polish Academy of Sciences published a document
challenging man-made global warming. In the Czech Republic, where
President Vaclav Klaus remains a leading skeptic, today only 11% of
the population believes humans play a role. In France, President
Nicolas Sarkozy wants to tap Claude Allegre to lead the country's new
ministry of industry and innovation. Twenty years ago Mr. Allegre was
among the first to trill about man-made global warming, but the
geochemist has since recanted. New Zealand last year elected a new
government, which immediately suspended the country's weeks-old cap-
and-trade program.

The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen.
Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the
U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate
summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to
receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement
last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her
nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical
chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made
warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar
Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new
religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will
Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position
that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have
refused to run the physicists' open letter.)

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The
inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined
since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed
research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps,
hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial
crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would
require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon.

Credit for Australia's own era of renewed enlightenment goes to Dr.
Ian Plimer, a well-known Australian geologist. Earlier this year he
published "Heaven and Earth," a damning critique of the "evidence"
underpinning man-made global warming. The book is already in its fifth
printing. So compelling is it that Paul Sheehan, a noted Australian
columnist -- and ardent global warming believer -- in April humbly
pronounced it "an evidence-based attack on conformity and orthodoxy,
including my own, and a reminder to respect informed dissent and
beware of ideology subverting evidence." Australian polls have shown a
sharp uptick in public skepticism; the press is back to questioning
scientific dogma; blogs are having a field day.

The rise in skepticism also came as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, elected
like Mr. Obama on promises to combat global warming, was attempting
his own emissions-reduction scheme. His administration was forced to
delay the implementation of the program until at least 2011, just to
get the legislation through Australia's House. The Senate was not so
easily swayed.

Mr. Fielding, a crucial vote on the bill, was so alarmed by the
renewed science debate that he made a fact-finding trip to the U.S.,
attending the Heartland Institute's annual conference for climate
skeptics. He also visited with Joseph Aldy, Mr. Obama's special
assistant on energy and the environment, where he challenged the Obama
team to address his doubts. They apparently didn't.

This week Mr. Fielding issued a statement: He would not be voting for
the bill. He would not risk job losses on "unconvincing green
science." The bill is set to founder as the Australian parliament
breaks for the winter.

Republicans in the U.S. have, in recent years, turned ever more to the
cost arguments against climate legislation. That's made sense in light
of the economic crisis. If Speaker Nancy Pelosi fails to push through
her bill, it will be because rural and Blue Dog Democrats fret about
the economic ramifications. Yet if the rest of the world is any
indication, now might be the time for U.S. politicians to re-engage on
the science. One thing for sure: They won't be alone.

Write to k...@wsj.com

-----

Much of the detail quoted in the article comes from a 250 page report
posted by the senate minority...

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStor...


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Ken Caldeira  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 4:35 am
From: Ken Caldeira <kcalde...@globalecology.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:35:44 -0700
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 4:35 am
Subject: Re: [geo] WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

That something like this would be published in The Wall Street Journal
indicates the deterioration of a world that believes that it is what you
believe that counts, not  empirical confrontation with experience.

Empiricism may have risen its little head for a few centuries, but is now
drowning in a sea of medievalism.

Reality has become just another special interest group.


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Mike MacCracken  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 9:17 am
From: Mike MacCracken <mmacc...@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:17:26 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 9:17 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Ken, et al.---It takes a bit of patience, but we simply have to address
these types of claims. I have offered comments on a couple of these. See:

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/maccracken_c...
_of_robinson_etal/

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/maccracken_o...
en/

MacCracken, M. C., E. Barron, D. Easterling, B. Felzer, and T. Karl, 2003:
Climate change scenarios for the U. S. National Assessment, Bulletin of the
American Meteorological Society, 84, 1711-1723.

MacCracken, M. C., 2003: Uncertainties: How little do we really understand,
pp. 63-70 in Bridging the Gap Between Science and Society: The Relationship
Between Policy and Research in National Laboratories, Universities,
Government, and Industry, November 1-2, 2003, Rice University, Houston TX,
287 pp.

And realclimate.org does a lot of clearing up of things. Plus then there is
the Santer et al. article on Douglass et al. and lost of others as well. It
takes time (and time away from real research) and is frustrating at times,
but simply has to be done. I am very surprised that there was now a response
trying to address the concerns (especially with Tom Wigley and Barrie
Pittock being in Australia and being real slayers of myths, etc.).

But old criticisms keep popping up (and I mean really old ones, like that
there can be no CO2 effect because the bands are saturated‹a myth explained
by Arrenihius and clearly demonstrated in Manabeđs modeling of over 40 years
ago‹but up comes the myth again, and again, and again.

We just have to keep explaining in clearer and clearer ways, not reverting
to the authority or numbers doing the IPCC reports types of arguments.
Explain, teach, explain.

Mike

On 6/28/09 4:35 AM, "Ken Caldeira" <kcalde...@globalecology.stanford.edu>
wrote:


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Eugene I. Gordon  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 10:06 am
From: "Eugene I. Gordon" <euggor...@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:06:34 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 10:06 am
Subject: RE: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Mike, what do you plan to explain and teach? What is known for sure?
Certainly CO2 is a greenhouse gas and it is causing some global warming
based on reasonable hypothesis, BUT HOW MUCH? And if you produce a big
number or high percentage then you are as bad as the deniers. The honest
position is that everything we think we know about climate science, none of
which has been subject to rigorous test, suggests that CO2 plays a role and
is causing some of the warming but not all because the strong influence of
sunspots has been clearly shown over the last 4 warming/cooling cycles, and
there are thousands of similar cycles shown in the proxy record but no
sunspot data to go with it. So the best data and perfect correlation for 4
events we have is sunspots. The best qualitative science we have is
greenhouse effects, There are other cloud, ocean current effects, etc. etc.

If you simply take the opposing position you are as bad as the deniers. Take
the position that the science is not well established, it is qualitative,
and we simply do not know enough to be quantitative. However the proxy
record of 540 million years says it will get warmer and in the not too
distant future we will need to control the temperature EVEN IF WE STOP
INPUTTING ANTHROPOGENIC CO2 TOMORROW.

Knee jerk reactions are not useful.

-gene

  _____  

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com
[mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike MacCracken
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:17 AM
To: Ken Caldeira; Dan Whaley
Cc: Geoengineering
Subject: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Ken, et al.---It takes a bit of patience, but we simply have to address
these types of claims. I have offered comments on a couple of these. See:

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/maccracken_c...
_of_robinson_etal/

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/maccracken_o...
en/

MacCracken, M. C., E. Barron, D. Easterling, B. Felzer, and T. Karl, 2003:
Climate change scenarios for the U. S. National Assessment, Bulletin of the
American Meteorological Society, 84, 1711-1723.

MacCracken, M. C., 2003: Uncertainties: How little do we really understand,
pp. 63-70 in Bridging the Gap Between Science and Society: The Relationship
Between Policy and Research in National Laboratories, Universities,
Government, and Industry, November 1-2, 2003, Rice University, Houston TX,
287 pp.

And realclimate.org does a lot of clearing up of things. Plus then there is
the Santer et al. article on Douglass et al. and lost of others as well. It
takes time (and time away from real research) and is frustrating at times,
but simply has to be done. I am very surprised that there was now a response
trying to address the concerns (especially with Tom Wigley and Barrie
Pittock being in Australia and being real slayers of myths, etc.).

But old criticisms keep popping up (and I mean really old ones, like that
there can be no CO2 effect because the bands are saturated-a myth explained
by Arrenihius and clearly demonstrated in Manabe's modeling of over 40 years
ago-but up comes the myth again, and again, and again.

We just have to keep explaining in clearer and clearer ways, not reverting
to the authority or numbers doing the IPCC reports types of arguments.
Explain, teach, explain.

Mike

On 6/28/09 4:35 AM, "Ken Caldeira" <kcalde...@globalecology.stanford.edu>
wrote:

That something like this would be published in The Wall Street Journal
indicates the deterioration of a world that believes that it is what you
believe that counts, not  empirical confrontation with experience.

Empiricism may have risen its little head for a few centuries, but is now
drowning in a sea of medievalism.

Reality has become just another special interest group.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:01 AM, Dan Whaley <dan.wha...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html#printMode

The Climate Change Climate Change
The number of skeptics is swelling everywhere.

      By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL

Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him
on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration
proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change
legislation.

If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of
the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares
to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing
to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing
number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again
doubt the science of human-caused global warming.
[POTOMAC WATCH] Associated Press

Steve Fielding

Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic
majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system
through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting.
It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the
media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who
disagreed with them as "deniers." The backlash has brought the
scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and
even, if less reported, the U.S.

In April, the Polish Academy of Sciences published a document
challenging man-made global warming. In the Czech Republic, where
President Vaclav Klaus remains a leading skeptic, today only 11% of
the population believes humans play a role. In France, President
Nicolas Sarkozy wants to tap Claude Allegre to lead the country's new
ministry of industry and innovation. Twenty years ago Mr. Allegre was
among the first to trill about man-made global warming, but the
geochemist has since recanted. New Zealand last year elected a new
government, which immediately suspended the country's weeks-old cap-
and-trade program.

The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen.
Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the
U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate
summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to
receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement
last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her
nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical
chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made
warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar
Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new
religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will
Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position
that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have
refused to run the physicists' open letter.)

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The
inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined
since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed
research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps,
hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial
crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would
require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon.

Credit for Australia's own era of renewed enlightenment goes to Dr.
Ian Plimer, a well-known Australian geologist. Earlier this year he
published "Heaven and Earth," a damning critique of the "evidence"
underpinning man-made global warming. The book is already in its fifth
printing. So compelling is it that Paul Sheehan, a noted Australian
columnist -- and ardent global warming believer -- in April humbly
pronounced it "an evidence-based attack on conformity and orthodoxy,
including my own, and a reminder to respect informed dissent and
beware of ideology subverting evidence." Australian polls have shown a
sharp uptick in public skepticism; the press is back to questioning
scientific dogma; blogs are having a field day.

The rise in skepticism also came as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, elected
like Mr. Obama on promises to combat global warming, was attempting
his own emissions-reduction scheme. His administration was forced to
delay the implementation of the program until at least 2011, just to
get the legislation through Australia's House. The Senate was not so
easily swayed.

Mr. Fielding, a crucial vote on the bill, was so alarmed by the
renewed science debate that he made a fact-finding trip to the U.S.,
attending the Heartland Institute's annual conference for climate
skeptics. He also visited with Joseph Aldy, Mr. Obama's special
assistant on energy and the environment, where he challenged the Obama
team to address his doubts. They apparently didn't.

This week Mr. Fielding issued a statement: He would not be voting for
the bill. He would not risk job losses on "unconvincing green
science." The bill is set to founder as the Australian parliament
breaks for the winter.

Republicans in the U.S. have, in recent years, turned ever more to the
cost arguments against climate legislation. That's made sense in light
of the economic crisis. If Speaker Nancy Pelosi fails to push through
her bill, it will be because rural and Blue Dog Democrats fret about
the economic ramifications. Yet if the rest of the world is any
indication, now might be the time for U.S. politicians to re-engage on
the science. One thing for sure: They won't be alone.

Write to k...@wsj.com

-----

Much of the detail quoted in the article comes from a 250 page report
posted by the senate minority...

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View
<http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStor...
3947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9>
&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9


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David Schnare  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 10:33 am
From: David Schnare <dwschn...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:33:18 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 10:33 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

I'm not aware of a single person who thinks geoengineering is anything but
an insurance policy.  As such, the only useful question is when to deploy
it, if ever.  (OK, when to deploy each of the various geoengineering
approaches.)

The only reason a geoengineer would have in the causality of warming is to
ensure the geoengineering response will work in light of the causal
elements.  Hence, if CO2 increases are not the major source of warming, then
OIF is not going to be much of a solution.  Same for other capture or
sequester approaches.  But such concern is quite small for solar radiation
management.

So, let others argue about the need.  Just think about when to deploy,
especially in light of the political infeasibility of getting a global
agreement (think China and India).

d.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Eugene I. Gordon <euggor...@comcast.net>wrote:

...

read more »


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William Fulkerson  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 10:54 am
From: William Fulkerson <wf...@utk.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:54:28 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Dear Mike:
You are exactly right.  The truth takes work.
The best,
Bill
On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Mike MacCracken wrote:

Bill Fulkerson, Senior Fellow
Institute for a Secure and Sustainable Environment
University of Tennessee
311 Conference Center Bldg.
Knoxville, TN 37996-4138
wf...@utk.edu
865-974-9221, -1838 FAX
Home
865-988-8084; 865-680-0937 CELL
2781 Wheat Road, Lenoir City, TN 37771

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Mike MacCracken  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 11:06 am
From: Mike MacCracken <mmacc...@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:06:45 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 11:06 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Dear Gene‹What I would propose to explain in clear terms is just what is in
the IPCC reports‹and in other major, well-reviewed assessments. I would not
be intending to put forth new views and alternative insights, , except in
very rare cases like sea level rise where there was a lot of authoritative
discussion about the IPCCđs presentation of the summary results. In my view,
we scientists have our opportunity through the IPCC process to offer their
personal comments, and in explaining to the public, we should be sticking to
the views agreed to in the authoritative assessments‹and very carefully
identify and explain any departures.

Mike

On 6/28/09 10:06 AM, "eSubscript...@montgomerycountymd.gov"

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/maccracken_o...>
/

...

read more »


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Eugene I. Gordon  
View profile  
 More options Jun 28, 1:27 pm
From: "Eugene I. Gordon" <euggor...@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:27:50 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 1:27 pm
Subject: RE: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Not right! Truth takes more than work; and it doesn't always prevail.
However, the truth is that the temperature of the Earth is headed up, way up
to 25 C, and it will get there even if the CO2 were brought down to 280 ppm
tomorrow to stay there until the current Malenkovitch cycle ends. The
current temperature rise is partly accelerated by anthropogenic CO2 but it
will rise in any case and ultimately will doom most human life on this
planet, perhaps sustaining a much smaller number in polar areas or in domed
cities. If we want to have some semblance of current climate and current
lifestyle; climate control via geoengineering will be essential. Nothing to
do with CO2 or cutting out fossil fuels!

  _____  

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com
[mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of William Fulkerson
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:54 AM
To: mmacc...@comcast.net
Cc: Ken Caldeira; Dan Whaley; Geoengineering
Subject: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Dear Mike:
You are exactly right.  The truth takes work.
The best,
Bill

On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Mike MacCracken wrote:

Ken, et al.---It takes a bit of patience, but we simply have to address
these types of claims. I have offered comments on a couple of these. See:

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/maccracken_c...
_of_robinson_etal/

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/maccracken_o...
en/

MacCracken, M. C., E. Barron, D. Easterling, B. Felzer, and T. Karl, 2003:
Climate change scenarios for the U. S. National Assessment, Bulletin of the
American Meteorological Society, 84, 1711-1723.

MacCracken, M. C., 2003: Uncertainties: How little do we really understand,
pp. 63-70 in Bridging the Gap Between Science and Society: The Relationship
Between Policy and Research in National Laboratories, Universities,
Government, and Industry, November 1-2, 2003, Rice University, Houston TX,
287 pp.

And realclimate.org does a lot of clearing up of things. Plus then there is
the Santer et al. article on Douglass et al. and lost of others as well. It
takes time (and time away from real research) and is frustrating at times,
but simply has to be done. I am very surprised that there was now a response
trying to address the concerns (especially with Tom Wigley and Barrie
Pittock being in Australia and being real slayers of myths, etc.).

But old criticisms keep popping up (and I mean really old ones, like that
there can be no CO2 effect because the bands are saturated-a myth explained
by Arrenihius and clearly demonstrated in Manabe's modeling of over 40 years
ago-but up comes the myth again, and again, and again.

We just have to keep explaining in clearer and clearer ways, not reverting
to the authority or numbers doing the IPCC reports types of arguments.
Explain, teach, explain.

Mike

On 6/28/09 4:35 AM, "Ken Caldeira" <kcalde...@globalecology.stanford.edu>
wrote:

That something like this would be published in The Wall Street Journal
indicates the deterioration of a world that believes that it is what you
believe that counts, not  empirical confrontation with experience.

Empiricism may have risen its little head for a few centuries, but is now
drowning in a sea of medievalism.

Reality has become just another special interest group.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:01 AM, Dan Whaley <dan.wha...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html#printMode

The Climate Change Climate Change
The number of skeptics is swelling everywhere.

      By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL

Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him
on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration
proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change
legislation.

If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of
the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares
to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing
to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing
number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again
doubt the science of human-caused global warming.
[POTOMAC WATCH] Associated Press

Steve Fielding

Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic
majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system
through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting.
It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the
media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who
disagreed with them as "deniers." The backlash has brought the
scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and
even, if less reported, the U.S.

In April, the Polish Academy of Sciences published a document
challenging man-made global warming. In the Czech Republic, where
President Vaclav Klaus remains a leading skeptic, today only 11% of
the population believes humans play a role. In France, President
Nicolas Sarkozy wants to tap Claude Allegre to lead the country's new
ministry of industry and innovation. Twenty years ago Mr. Allegre was
among the first to trill about man-made global warming, but the
geochemist has since recanted. New Zealand last year elected a new
government, which immediately suspended the country's weeks-old cap-
and-trade program.

The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen.
Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the
U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate
summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to
receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement
last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her
nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical
chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made
warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar
Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new
religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will
Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position
that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have
refused to run the physicists' open letter.)

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The
inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined
since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed
research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps,
hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial
crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would
require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon.

Credit for Australia's own era of renewed enlightenment goes to Dr.
Ian Plimer, a well-known Australian geologist. Earlier this year he
published "Heaven and Earth," a damning critique of the "evidence"
underpinning man-made global warming. The book is already in its fifth
printing. So compelling is it that Paul Sheehan, a noted Australian
columnist -- and ardent global warming believer -- in April humbly
pronounced it "an evidence-based attack on conformity and orthodoxy,
including my own, and a reminder to respect informed dissent and
beware of ideology subverting evidence." Australian polls have shown a
sharp uptick in public skepticism; the press is back to questioning
scientific dogma; blogs are having a field day.

The rise in skepticism also came as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, elected
like Mr. Obama on promises to combat global warming, was attempting
his own emissions-reduction scheme. His administration was forced to
delay the implementation of the program until at least 2011, just to
get the legislation through Australia's House. The Senate was not so
easily swayed.

Mr. Fielding, a crucial vote on the bill, was so alarmed by the
renewed science debate that he made a fact-finding trip to the U.S.,
attending the Heartland Institute's annual conference for climate
skeptics. He also visited with Joseph Aldy, Mr. Obama's special
assistant on energy and the environment, where he challenged the Obama
team to address his doubts. They apparently didn't.

This week Mr. Fielding issued a statement: He would not be voting for
the bill. He would not risk job losses on "unconvincing green
science." The bill is set to founder as the Australian parliament
breaks for the winter.

Republicans in the U.S. have, in recent years, turned ever more to the
cost arguments against climate legislation. That's made sense in light
of the economic crisis. If Speaker Nancy Pelosi fails to push through
her bill, it will be because rural and Blue Dog Democrats fret about
the economic ramifications. Yet if the rest of the world is any
indication, now might be the time for U.S. politicians to re-engage on
the science. One thing for sure: They won't be alone.

Write to k...@wsj.com

-----

Much of the detail quoted in the article comes from a 250 page report
posted by the senate minority...

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View
<http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStor...
3947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9>
&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9

Bill Fulkerson, Senior Fellow
Institute for a Secure and Sustainable Environment
University of Tennessee
311 Conference Center Bldg.
Knoxville, TN 37996-4138
 <mailto:wf...@utk.edu> wf...@utk.edu
865-974-9221, -1838 FAX
Home
865-988-8084; 865-680-0937 CELL
2781 Wheat Road, Lenoir City, TN 37771


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DW  
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 More options Jun 28, 1:38 pm
From: DW <dan.wha...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 1:38 pm
Subject: Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
I would say this is a fitting moment for an op-ed rebuttal from
someone with the altitude to properly counter-- important not to let
these missives go unanswered.   The speedier the better.

One of the centerpieces of this article is a recent book "Heaven and
Earth", by a prominent Australian geologist.  The book has drawn a
pointed critique from a fellow countryman, Barry Brook, also at the
University of Adelaide.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25372986-30417,00....

Ian Entling from the Univ. of Melbourne has a 35pg pdf of point by
point analysis
http://bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/plimer1a8.pdf

Another point by point critique
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/04/the_science_is_missing_from_i...

Another response
http://novakeo.com/?p=3931

On Jun 28, 10:27 am, "Eugene I. Gordon" <euggor...@comcast.net> wrote:

...

read more »


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Alan Robock  
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 More options Jun 28, 2:16 pm
From: Alan Robock <rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:16:46 -0400 (EDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
Dear Dan,

In the past, the Wall Street Journal has refused to publish op-eds that
do not agree with their editorial policy, so I think it would be a waste
of time.  On the other hand, the news portion of the Wall Street Journal
has published an article which is more or less reasonable about
geoengineering, and they even posted an interview with myself and Dale
Jamieson, although not very long.  You can see these at:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020477130457418152257550...

http://online.wsj.com/video/geoengineering-a-controversial-solution-t...

There are really two different parts of the WSJ.  When I asked the
reporter, Bob Hotz, why the WSJ would publish these articles that
propose a solution to a problem that they claims does not exist, he told
me that the news part of the wSJ believes in using evidence to support
what they write.  The editorial part just believes.

Alan

Alan Robock, Professor II
   Director, Meteorology Undergraduate Program
   Associate Director, Center for Environmental Prediction
Department of Environmental Sciences        Phone: +1-732-932-9800 x6222
Rutgers University                                  Fax: +1-732-932-8644
14 College Farm Road                   E-mail: rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu
New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8551  USA      http://envsci.rutgers.edu/~robock


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Dan Whaley  
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 More options Jun 28, 4:26 pm
From: Dan Whaley <dan.wha...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:26:15 -0700
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

I see no reason why a rebuttal needs to show up in the same paper... either
the NYT or WaPo would be perfectly acceptable alternates for instance.
Perhaps with the WaPo as a slight preference in that there was an "inside
the beltway" framing to the original piece.

I agree that it is probably unlikely that you would get equivalent
positioning if it were in the WSJ.   Though it is pure supposition on my
part, I imagine that the hand of our dear friend Mr. Murdoch may be showing
here...  there have been some interesting pieces recently on the numerous
small and not so small changes that have occurred since the transition.  I
have definitely gained a new appreciation for the strength of the
investigative reporting and other facets of the old WSJ organization under
the Bancrofts, slanted though it was.

D

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Alan Robock <rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu>wrote:


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Margaret Leinen  
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 More options Jun 28, 11:56 pm
From: Margaret Leinen <mlei...@climateresponsefund.org>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:56:33 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 11:56 pm
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
Eugene,  Can you provide reference(s) for the sunspot work:  "the strong
influence of sunspots has been clearly shown over the last 4 warming/cooling
cycles, and there are thousands of similar cycles shown in the proxy record
but no sunspot data to go with it. So the best data and perfect correlation
for 4 events we have is sunspots." -- especially for the perfect
correlation.  You may have done this in earlier posts as I know that you
have mentioned it before, but I have not been able to find a reference in
your earlier contributions.  Margaret
--
Margaret Leinen, PhD.
Climate Response Fund
119 S. Columbus Street
Alexandria, VA 22314
202-415-6545

...

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Ken Caldeira  
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 More options Jun 29, 3:11 am
From: Ken Caldeira <kcalde...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:11:38 +0100
Local: Mon, Jun 29 2009 3:11 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
One out of every 20 time series show spurious correlation at the 95%  
significance level ( and even more if you let me choose how to adjust,  
smooth, truncate, or detrend the data).

Causal mechanisms leading to successful prediction are the hallmark of  
science.

Correlations are good motivators to look for causal explanation but  
correlation should not be confused for causality.

Who would like to wager that the correlation that Eugene comes up with  
will not depend on detrending, smoothing, truncation of data, or some  
other manipulation to acheive it's purported statistical significance?

Sent from a limited typing keyboard

On Jun 29, 2009, at 4:56, Margaret Leinen <mlei...@climateresponsefund.org

...

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David Schnare  
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 More options Jun 29, 8:30 am
From: David Schnare <dwschn...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:30:50 -0400
Local: Mon, Jun 29 2009 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Oh for crying out loud.  Go look at the most recent Scafetta papers which
use a 30 year time scale for the correlations, and then look at the
backcasted estimates.  Then make your wager.

David.

...

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Tip  
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 More options Jun 29, 7:19 pm
From: Tip <sonof...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:19:30 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 29 2009 7:19 pm
Subject: Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

On Jun 28, 1:35 am, Ken Caldeira

<kcalde...@globalecology.stanford.edu> wrote:
> That something like this would be published in The Wall Street Journal
> indicates the deterioration of a world that believes that it is what you
> believe that counts, not  empirical confrontation with experience.
> Empiricism may have risen its little head for a few centuries, but is now
> drowning in a sea of medievalism.
> Reality has become just another special interest group.

So after years of science by consensus and UN authority the rules
change?
The 'deniers' can produce as much 'science' as the 'warmers'. Isn't it
about time that science returned to a basis of comparison and exchange
of research and thought? It seems that as the rice bowel appears to be
coming into jeopardy the AGW rhetoric becomes even more sustained and
frantic.
How can AGW science be considered legitimate when the believers are
unwilling to put their beliefs to the harsh tests of research
comparison and debate?

Respectfully,
Tip Rouse


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Eugene I. Gordon  
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 More options Jun 30, 7:49 am
From: "Eugene I. Gordon" <euggor...@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:49:45 -0400
Local: Tues, Jun 30 2009 7:49 am
Subject: RE: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

I am not going to take exception to what Ken  or Tip Rouse says with respect
to climate science. My two cents plain (when I was growing up that was CO2
in water, called seltzer) is that they are over generalizing. I believe that
science is practiced as it has been in the last 350 years since the Royal
Society of London was organized. However, climate science has emerged into
the public arena and the public is the consumer. It is now climopolitical
science, corrupted by lawyers,  politicians and VCs etc. who see fortunes to
be made by manipulating and distorting the science. In that arena it is
surely what the public believes that counts. The Republicans were in; now
the Democrats; the proclaimers, now the deniers. Give it 4 or 8 more years
and it will change again. And what better medium than the WSJ?

-gene


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Peter Read  
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 More options Jul 2, 4:45 am
From: "Peter Read" <pre...@attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 20:45:50 +1200
Local: Thurs, Jul 2 2009 4:45 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
Sometime back there was quite a literature about sunspot correlations with
economic activity
So far as I recollect, its intent was to warn about infering causality from
correlation
I used to ask my students whether the clouds were hurrying by because the
trees were tickling their tummies ? or was it just that the trees were
waving goodbye to the passing clouds ?
Sometimes they got the point
Peter

...

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Ken Caldeira  
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 More options Jul 2, 5:10 am
From: Ken Caldeira <kcalde...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:10:23 +0100
Local: Thurs, Jul 2 2009 5:10 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

even successfully predicted the current economic downturn (see attached)

...

read more »

  Economy_sunspots.jpg
180K Download

  global-jan-dec-error-bar-pg.gif
75K Download

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Eugene I. Gordon  
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 More options Jul 2, 8:20 am
From: "Eugene I. Gordon" <euggor...@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:20:12 -0400
Local: Thurs, Jul 2 2009 8:20 am
Subject: RE: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
This is all very interesting but we all know that correlation doesn't infer
but does suggest causality. It should be sensible. However, do we forget
global warming and anthropogenic CO2 as simply an interesting correlation?
If there is some technical sense to the correlation it takes on a higher
significance. It is also true that the Maunder Minimum was a prolonged
period of no sunspots and apparently led to what turned out to be a
disastrous prolonged cooling. That was a particularly significant
correlation. There were also shorter correlations in about 1850 and 1960 and
current. I think the correlation has been perfect for a very limited number
of events for which there is data.

It is also true that global warmings and coolings have been recorded for
hundreds of thousands of years in ice core data and also in pacific mud
deposits. The core record is similar to the temperature change record of the
last 1000 years. Since the related CO2 data trails the temperature;
something else has got to be going on and sunspots are as good a possibility
as anything I know.

What I find so strange is that I would expect that such a strong correlation
would lead to a strong research activity to see if the causal aspects could
be established. I am not aware of such research except maybe some in Denmark
on clouds. That tells me that truth, understanding and science are not the
issue. It can tell you whatever you like. To each his own.

For my taste sunspots are important.

-gene

...

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David Schnare  
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 More options Jul 2, 8:28 am
From: David Schnare <dwschn...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:28:27 -0400
Local: Thurs, Jul 2 2009 8:28 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Although I am not Ken (the group owner), I ask:  And what does any of
this *sturm
und drang* have to do with geoengineering?

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Eugene I. Gordon <euggor...@comcast.net>wrote:

...

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Stephen Salter  
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 More options Jul 2, 10:11 am
From: Stephen Salter <S.Sal...@ed.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:11:39 +0100
Local: Thurs, Jul 2 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
Hi All

Sunspots can affect weather thermally and perhaps via some form of
radiation affect cloud condensation.

Weather changes would certainly affect food production.

World food production is likely to influence levels of optimism, market
sentiment, financial confidence etc. and so the incidence of recessions.
It is a bit harder to see how crooked bankers can change solar physics.

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering and Electronics
University of Edinburgh
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3JL
Scotland
tel +44 131 650 5704
fax +44 131 650 5702
Mobile  07795 203 195
S.Sal...@ed.ac.uk
http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs    

...

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Tom Wigley  
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 More options Jul 2, 8:26 pm
From: Tom Wigley <wig...@ucar.edu>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:26:55 -0600
Local: Thurs, Jul 2 2009 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
Gene,

You never responded to Margaret's question (or perhaps
I missed it).

Tom.

+++++++++++++++++++

...

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John Nissen  
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 More options Jul 3, 4:40 am
From: John Nissen <j...@cloudworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:40:33 +0100
Local: Fri, Jul 3 2009 4:40 am
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Concerning sunspots, we can expect much increased activity over next few
years:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Sunspot-bfly.gif

And here is some news about El Niņo:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1908533,00.html?xid=rs...

So we can expect global temperatures to rise, and possibly the Arctic
sea ice to retreat even faster!

Are we prepared?

Cheers,

John


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Eugene I. Gordon  
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 More options Jul 3, 7:32 am
From: "Eugene I. Gordon" <euggor...@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:32:38 -0400
Local: Fri, Jul 3 2009 7:32 am
Subject: RE: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism
It is news that someone can actually predict sunsot activity . Assuming that
is the case we can expect increased warming and more urgent need for
geoengineering. We cannot predict reliably tomorrows' weather but we can
predict next years climate???


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John Nissen  
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 More options Jul 3, 1:20 pm
From: John Nissen <j...@cloudworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:20:49 +0100
Local: Fri, Jul 3 2009 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism

Hi Gene,

Sunspot activity is pretty predictable, as you can see from the picture.  The 11 year cycle is apparent in tree rings.

However the El Niño is totally unpredictable.  We have just had a strong La Niña:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7329799.stm

The combination of low sunspot activity and La Niña has led to cooler global temperatures since 1998.  However, despite this, the Arctic sea ice has been retreating and breaking records (see Albert's email yesterday on the "Geoengineering seminar" topic).

Thus there is now a significant possibility* of a seasonally ice-free Arctic ocean within two or three years.  Suppose SRM with stratospheric aerosol proves problematic. If we are to get the Salter/Latham cloud brightening technique working and scaled up, sufficient to cool the water entering the Arctic, we need to press ahead.  It is a matter of will.  This is not like putting a man on the moon!

Cheers,

John

*P.S.  Any probability over 1% would be extremely significant, given the risks from methane out-gassing, etc., if the ice disappears.


Eugene I. Gordon wrote:
It is news that someone can actually predict sunsot activity . Assuming that
is the case we can expect increased warming and more urgent need for
geoengineering. We cannot predict reliably tomorrows' weather but we can
predict next years climate???

-----Original Message-----
From: John Nissen [mailto:jn@cloudworld.co.uk] 
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 4:41 AM
To: wigley@ucar.edu
Cc: euggordon@comcast.net; 'Peter Read'; 'Ken Caldeira'; 'Margaret Leinen';
'Mike MacCracken'; 'Ken Caldeira'; 'Dan Whaley'; 'Geoengineering'
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: WSJ - Op-Ed on Global Warming Skepticism


Concerning sunspots, we can expect much increased activity over next few
years:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Sunspot-bfly.gif

And here is some news about El Niño:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1908533,00.html?xid=rss-topst
ories 


So we can expect global temperatures to rise, and possibly the Arctic sea
ice to retreat even faster!

Are we prepared?

Cheers,

John




Tom Wigley wrote:
  
Gene,

You never responded to Margaret's question (or perhaps I missed it).

Tom.

+++++++++++++++++++
  
    
  

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