Fur: An unfortunate incident. + pic (F/nude)
Insomnicon
>Something rather unpleasant happened to me today ...
It's "half up front, half on completion," right? I mean, if it works for
Mafia hitmen it probably works for other less dangerous occupations.
A. Seraph
therein lies the real hurt.
-Seraph
Cesarin The White DraGoN
artwork, and because you started all the problem by insulting him because
he did the mistake of putting your real name in his webpage and you replied
him severely for months, and now when he does his revenge against the things
you did to him and affected him a lot, you take the role of "the victim"?
I never tought that you could fall that low Ms .Seraph.
And he whas going to pay, but you again did your "JOB" and maded him angry,
so he refuse and now your role of victim...
patetic.. next time try being an actress inteath of an artist. thank you.
Cesarin
"A. Seraph" <Kab...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:aafpui$15o0$1...@velox.critter.net...
A. Seraph
cruel to you for your difficult-to-read post. However, before you try
writing again, I suggest you at least check your story.
And please don't call me a liar. I do NOT lie.
-Seraph
Cesarin The White DraGoN
And how nice from you to spreading your lies everywhere to think bad from a
person who already suffered enought..
Cesarin
"A. Seraph" <Kab...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:aafu3a$196f$1...@velox.critter.net...
A. Seraph
even if you weren't mine. Please keep in mind that a friendship can be
one-sided.
You wrote: 'He whas never your friend, he only liked your artwork,'
Nice to finally find out he was never my friend, my mistake for thinking he
was. But isn't this what I said? That he lied to me in order to get my
art?
Just because he wasn't my friend, doesn't mean I wasn't his. More fool me
for being naieve.
> 'and because you started all the problem by insulting him because he did
the mistake of putting your real name in his webpage'
Yes, I did. It was not on purpose, it was my mistake, and I didn't even
know I had insulted him until much later.
> 'and you replied him severely for months'
Did he tell you this? Because I did not talk to him, or hear from him, from
the point when I insulted him until I got up the courage to ask if something
was wrong. When he told me how he felt, I apologised.
> 'and now when he does his revenge against the things you did to him'
What 'things'? I snapped at him ONE time, without thinking, without
realizing I hurt his feelings, and yes, that was wrong, I admit that, but I
have not been harrassing the fellow.
> 'And how nice from you to spreading your lies everywhere to think bad from
a person who already suffered enought'
He's suffered? But doesn't everyone suffer? Do you think I don't? I don't
know the specifics of his life's woes, but I sincerely doubt your friend's
stability.
And I'll say it again, I don't lie.
But I also can't let this slide. I'm very hurt, and very angry. And I'm
sorry if it means losing you as, well, whatever you were to me, friend or
not.
-Seraph
Lorelei
Cesarin, I believe you've been a little misled.
First of all, if you knew Seraph, she _never_ allows the use of her real
name online. I know her real name and I don't ever use it because it is very
personal to her. She is extremely wary and paranoid about that. She makes
sure anyone and everyone who speaks to her about her artwork and such things
is to never use, if they even know, her real name. Your defense for Tevildo
in that he "made a mistake" is severely skewed, as I know without a doubt
that Seraph would have _explicitly_ told him not to use her real-life
appellation. And so, he did such without her permission. I'll give him the
benefit of a doubt and say he just forgot about it and did do it by
accident. But I have to wonder if he uses Nakira/Wookiee's or other
prominent "fur-named" artists' real names on his webpage.
Secondly, let's say he "was never her friend." In that case, Seraph WOULD
be the victim, you fool. Artists make artwork for two reasons: 1)
themselves, and 2) those who show interest in their work. Seraph is
DEFINITELY one of the latter. If someone displays an interest in her work,
and they want a commission, she'll make arrangements, since she believes and
trusts that that person is a "fan," or something close enough. They had an
arrangement, and since she MADE the artwork, and she still HAS the artwork,
and he never PAID her, then she is the victim. (Imagine someone telling you
they'll pay $100 for one picture if you work on it for three weeks, then
they don't pay for it when you have it done. How the hell would you feel?)
Now, Seraph had cut a deal with Tevildo to do custom artwork for him for a
lower price. It was certainly a deal for him (she's not cheap), and she was
simply trying to make amends with him for her attitude towards him earlier.
He possibly liked her artwork at some point, but he recently (as of this
flare-up) said that he hated her artwork and thought she was a shitty
artist. From experience, anyone who has the nerve to say that to a bona
fide artist (as Seraph certainly is) has no conception of or appreciation
for art. He degraded and insulted her in front of all #Furry on FurNet,
which is no surprise; only a twisted snake would take a fight on his own
ground, where he can't lose.
So far I don't see anything more than simply substantial to show any case
whatsoever for Tevildo. Give me some evidence. Lies and loaded rhetoric
don't cut it with me, I need something concrete and tangible. Hell, he's
not even defending himself that I know of, outside of #Furry, of course. How
brave of someone who says they're right.
And from what I understand, Tevildo sure as hell doesn't seem to have
suffered any more than anyone else. I've been through a lot of shit.
Seraph has too, god dammit, but you wouldn't know that; not many have ever
really talked to her about her past, that's reserved for only a few. So
give me some proof, you blasted lizard, prove to me that he's a wretched
excuse for a living creature that's had it so cruel and rough his entire
life that this blatant act of malice is justified.
And on the subject of careers, Cesarin, don't ever be an English teacher or
a lawyer.
-Taleron
"Wise men speak because they have something to say.
Fools, because they have to say something." -Plato
Preyfar
- Preyfar, who's got a lot to say on this matter, but is saying it
privately.
CC
one thing: nice picture :)
CC
ilr
"Cesarin The White DraGoN" <sei...@jal1.telmex.net.mx> wrote in message
news:aag4fu$1df8$1...@velox.critter.net...
> Sure, cows will fly nex time.
>
> And how nice from you to spreading your lies everywhere to think bad from a
> person who already suffered enought..
>
>
what seems like a week of nothing but shlong, and it has to be marred by
some damn drama that no one asked for? I'm not gonna get in the middle
of this because I think it's pretty obvious what everyone needs to do.
But just in case...Cesarin needs to STFU and get Jim Allen in here instead to
speak for himself, and it's a possiblilty that this never should have been
brought up here in the first place unless it can be that Jim's being a
deadbeat for non-personal reasons, IE: Just didn't have the money or is
just running a scam and might do this to other artists. Please ppl, Grow up.
-Ilr
Rashock
hurt and sometimes we say things we don't mean. If she truely apologized for
what she said then the malicious act againt a payment for free lance art is
unjustified.
People get hurt and just need to step back and cool their jets. I have seen
to many artists quit over something as minute as this. She'll get money for
the art piece through the auction. Probably as much or more then was agreed
upon.
Cesarin, you need to lay off. This Tevildo or whoever may be your friend but
he should speak up for himself. You're only causing flames and more problems
for the fandom. Sorry but people should just keep their noses out of their
buisness. She just said that she was hurt and that she was putting the piece
up for auction. Didn't even know who it was till you opened your mouth. So
keep quiet please.
Thanks
Rashock
CC <cchic...@home.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3CCBBC14...@home.nospam.com...
A. Seraph
people know. Granted, part of it is because I'm angry, but also to warn
other artsts... This man doesn't care about you, your feelings, or your art.
All he wants is your name for his collection, to make him feel important.
-Seraph
Cesarin The White DraGoN
by James gets their information and their image showing in his website.
Cesarin
"Lorelei" <klmi...@siu.edu> escribió en el mensaje
news:aag8bv$1gb0$1...@velox.critter.net...
Cesarin The White DraGoN
Great, for your information ,tevildo may have done a mistake yesterday, and
he didnt showed because he went to bed BEFORE seraph posted here, nice
things.. isnt it?
posting information and bad words about him after someone lefts and that
leaves enought time to "convince" other people like you "IRL"
that everything whas Jim's fault.
and btw, James doesnt use the newsgroup that much anymore, because most of
his stuff he posts gives him bad replies ( like if he does constructive
criticism other artists seems to be pissed at him in theirposts, and since
he doesnt like to do troubles, he avoids ) but once he tries to defend
himself, everyone runs onhim.. amazing.. you dude, you should grow up, if
you could just put yourself in jim's shoes you could have done the same.
think twice before posting and insunting ME.
Cesarin
"A. Seraph" <Kab...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:aahfjn$2cv2$1...@velox.critter.net...
Cesarin The White DraGoN
that Seraph loves to recruit an army of other artists to refuse to talk with
Jim or to accept comissiones, you should check HER post on Furbid, that
pissed me a lot.
Cesarin
"Preyfar" <pre...@hyenaspot.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:3CCBB3B0...@hyenaspot.net...
Rust
this forum. God, show a little decorum.
-Rust
--
We are the instruments of creation - what we dream, is.
Remove ".netspam" from my address to reply
A. Seraph
little finger, Cesarin, and I feel sorry for you.
A. Seraph
and the people who may fall into a similar situation.
A. Seraph
been spreading rumours about me, although I don't know for sure, but if he's
going to lie about it, I'll cut deeper by telling the truth.
-Seraph
A. Seraph
pretty, and I don't blame you.
-Seraph
Catai
> Another more lie?
She isn't lying when it is obvious that this person obviously went to great
lengths to turn a win-win situation into a lose-lose situation by
maliciously lying and trying to get revenge over some pety bullshit.
> Great, for your information ,tevildo may have done a mistake yesterday,
and
> he didnt showed because he went to bed BEFORE seraph posted here, nice
> things.. isnt it?
That is nice things, and it's not that he may have made a mistake, he did
make a mistake by offering money in exchange for services and than backing
out. That's just bad business not to mention the pussy emotional shit he
brought into the deal.
> posting information and bad words about him after someone lefts and that
> leaves enought time to "convince" other people like you "IRL"
> that everything whas Jim's fault.
Hey, if he can't live with the side effects of his choice to play little
mind games with someone because he has a problem instead of working it out
like a real fucking adult, that's something he should have thought of. But
if he has brainy people like you standing up for him, he'll be fine.
> and btw, James doesnt use the newsgroup that much anymore, because most of
> his stuff he posts gives him bad replies ( like if he does constructive
> criticism other artists seems to be pissed at him in theirposts, and since
> he doesnt like to do troubles, he avoids ) but once he tries to defend
> himself, everyone runs onhim.. amazing.. you dude, you should grow up, if
> you could just put yourself in jim's shoes you could have done the same.
> think twice before posting and insunting ME.
I am sure that he got bad feedback because he can't draw worth a damn. But
thats just an educated guess. If you can't draw it means you should learn to
draw well before posting it online, because otherwise people will make fun
of it. That's life.
As far as everyone ganging up on Jim, that should tell you something about
how weak his postition is. He did something totally uncalled for and that's
the real issue. At least it should be, and not this little boy jealousy
trip. Well doing that shit doesn't make you important.
-C
Catai
> artwork, and because you started all the problem by insulting him because
> he did the mistake of putting your real name in his webpage and you
replied
> him severely for months, and now when he does his revenge against the
things
> you did to him and affected him a lot, you take the role of "the victim"?
I would like to point out that Jim made a mistake by not understanding that
an artist does have preference over how they display their name
professionally. Also, he seemed to love Seraph's work until at the end he
said her art was total shit, BUT Seraph's commishion that he stiffed her
for, is up on his website still. Interesting.
> I never tought that you could fall that low Ms .Seraph.
I would class "Getting angry about a title issue" and "Pretending to be
someones friend to extort servises from them, and than trampling on them at
the end" in two seperate catagories. I'll give you a hint: The first one was
no big deal.
> And he whas going to pay, but you again did your "JOB" and maded him
angry,
> so he refuse and now your role of victim...
> patetic.. next time try being an actress inteath of an artist. thank you.
Jim is the victim here actually, you're right. He is a victim of his own
pety jealousy. It isn't Seraph's fault that Jim has less actual talent, but
I doubt it would do any good to mention that to him.
-C
Cesarin The White DraGoN
you.
if not, take all the examples of the "information War" used by all the power
countries these days, as an example of
US vs Irak, cnn showed some "faked " US aquatic atack machines , what did
Hussein do? send all their forces to protect the coastal cities, and how he
got taken down? from the desert. nice isnt it?
its the same way here, things that had insults and that stuff mostly can be
modified to look "innocent" after the fire is set.
Cesarin
"Catai" <notin...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:aahlqo$2hd7$1...@velox.critter.net...
Cesarin The White DraGoN
again triying to atrack more and more people to YOUR problem with James,
that YOU created by your own actions?
You once fired, he fired back. then you now triying to get it back to 2-1
score?
how fair!
and now calling more ppl and manipulating the "thruth" to get more and more
on your side?
even more fun!!!!
this could easily stop if you get your finger out of the trigger, but seems
you dont whant to.
Cesarin
"A. Seraph" <Kab...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:aahkgg$2ggc$1...@velox.critter.net...
Jim Allen
"Catai" <notin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aahmam$2hqh$1...@velox.critter.net...
> > Please dont lie Ms Seraph. He whas never your friend, he only liked your
> > artwork, and because you started all the problem by insulting him
because
> > he did the mistake of putting your real name in his webpage and you
> replied
> > him severely for months, and now when he does his revenge against the
> things
> > you did to him and affected him a lot, you take the role of "the
victim"?
>
> I would like to point out that Jim made a mistake by not understanding
that
> an artist does have preference over how they display their name
> professionally. Also, he seemed to love Seraph's work until at the end he
> said her art was total shit, BUT Seraph's commishion that he stiffed her
> for, is up on his website still. Interesting.
>
Again, I really hate contributing to this sort of thing, but I removed all
of Ms Singer's artwork from my site the moment she expressed her opinions of
_me_. If Ariel has been lying about me, then I feel that I'm entitled to
defend my position, and use what is apparently the only weapon I have
against her to whatever effect I can.
I suggest, "Catai", that you clear your browser cache before making
accusations about unauthorized art remaining available.
Jim Allen
Preyfar
- Preyfar
A. Seraph wrote:
> Something rather unpleasant happened to me today, and right now I feel used,
> hurt, and betrayed.
>
> Jim 'Tevildo' Allen commissioned this, although he never intended to pay for
> it. I'm auctioning it off now, here:
>
> http://www.furbid.ws/cgi-bin/auction.pl?yiff&1020993281
>
> I don't take bullshit laying down folks.
>
> -Seraph
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Preyfar
> of Ms Singer's artwork from my site the moment she expressed her opinions of
> _me_. If Ariel has been lying about me, then I feel that I'm entitled to
> defend my position, and use what is apparently the only weapon I have
> against her to whatever effect I can.
WHOO! Let's just add salt to the wound! *tosses some shakers around* Way
t'go, mate! This whole THING was started, apparently, but your use of
her name on the site, and there you go PUBLICALLY broadcasting it.
You have successfully elevated the stakes of the flamewar.
You gain 2,500 experience points and gain a level, earning the title of
Apprentice of the Flame. You are awarded -2 intelligence points and gain
.5 skill in trolling.
- S. "Preyfar" Piché
ICQ: 6435423
AIM: hyena divine
MAIL: pre...@hyenaspot.net
WEB: http://www.hyenaspot.net/preyfar
Winterbeast
W.
"A. Seraph" wrote:
Something rather unpleasant happened to me today, and right now I feel used,
hurt, and betrayed.
Jim 'Tevildo' Allen commissioned this, although he never intended to pay for
it. I'm auctioning it off now, here:
I don't take bullshit laying down folks.
-Seraph
[Image]
A. Seraph
Taleron
attained by the searcher. The general morality of both parties must be
surveyed to decide who is "right" in this situation.
1) The Good -
a) Seraph. The Good on Seraph's part is that she created this artwork,
tried to make amends with Tevildo, and even after everything, is remaining
polite and genteel about this incident. The bad for Seraph is that she was
perhaps a little paranoid about her real name being used, and she became
defensive over this. Overall, The Good in this situation was, "Tevildo got
artwork, Seraph got money. Fair trade, everyone wins." This is not the
case, though.
b) Tevildo. The Good for Tevildo is, well, slim if any. He commissioned
Seraph for this artwork. The bad of Tevildo is that he degraded Seraph in a
public area where he had more sway (a tactic used by many countries long ago
and today if you want to bring international politics into it), devolved
into petty insults, failed to follow through with a commission, deal, and
contract (Yes, a contract. A single email with deal for a payment can
subsist as a contract) with an artist, and did not ASK PERMISSION to use
Seraph's real name on his website (think about Internet identity theft for a
moment, then you should realize that asking permission is completely logical
and ethical. If you want to argue that, I'm sorry, I won't; there is no
argument).
2) The Right -
a) Seraph. The Right for Seraph is that she apologized to Tevildo for
jumping on him about using her real name. She was also right in trying to
make amends by offering free and low-cost artwork to said fur. Another count
in that she was right is that she genuinely took the commission as a
contract, and followed through with her part of the deal completely. The
wrong on Seraph's part was her initial response to her real name being used;
this is justified, however, in The Good above, in asking permission to use
such names.
b) Tevildo. There is no Right for Tevildo in this. He connived, lied,
deceived, and cheated Seraph out of her time and work, for nothing. He is
in the Wrong in that he did not follow through with the commission/contract,
and that is an unforgivable vice to an artist who works hard to please those
who show interest in their artwork.
3) The Just -
In the case of Justice, neither party is more just than the other. Both
Seraph and Tevildo overreacted, and for this, Justice cannot play a part in
deciding which party was more moral than the other.
HOWEVER. Since Justice cannot be ascertained for either party, The Right and
The Good must be consulted. As Seraph is by far more moral in both The Right
and The Good with her handling the situation, communication, actions, and
fulfillments, Seraph is the more moral person, and thusly, the better and
more right person.
Now let's see. How about some questions.
Why was Seraph paranoid about her real name being used?
- Many artists prefer to have their real appellations disguised from the
public for different purposes; usually anonymity, or easily applicable fame
(the ability to say "Jimbo" in place of "James Weatherby" is far easier to
say and recall). Song artists use this tactic a lot (Prince's name is not
Prince, for instance). Authors also use this method; an example of this is
women who used decidedly "male" pen names in order to have their books
published, because otherwise, publishing companies would not have afforded a
woman the ability to have a book published, regardless of skill. Also, the
ease with which Internet identity theft can be carried out is also a good
method to prompt people to create pen names.
Why did Seraph accept the commission?
- I'm not Seraph, but I would wager that she thought she could trust
this person, and believed them to be reliable enough that they would pay her
upon completion of their artwork.
Why did Tevildo fail to follow through with the commission payment?
- Tevildo perhaps didn't have the money; perhaps he forgot, or just
didn't have any put aside for paying Seraph. This however, is a false
pretense; paying for one commission by Seraph is NOT like buying a car or
house; a simple e-mail to say "I don't have the money yet, give me a week"
would suffice to explain the situation.
Why the lack of inactivity of Tevildo about this?
- Regardless of whether he uses f.a.e or not, I'm SURE you know him like
a brother, Cesarin, and could pass along an email. However, the only
evidence you have to explain for him are theories and possibilities. Nothing
even so much as substantial (sorry, I gave you too much credit in my last
post). Also, the use of #Furry only to assault Seraph about this incident
would provide Tevildo with a distinct advantage over Seraph, which he would
not need if he were right, yet, outside of that, he hasn't made a peep. All
this while, though, Seraph has attempted to alert other artists to this
deceiving fraud, and her friends and colleagues are defending her. Face it,
Ces, you're outnumbered at least 4-1, as far as posts go.
Now, as far as I can tell, commissions come with unwritten rules as to
conduct by both parties. A prioritized rule of this is that both parties
MUST follow through with this agreement once decided. It is obvious that
Tevildo gave Seraph a description of what he wanted, as she followed through
with her part of the commission and created the artwork. Tevildo did not pay
Seraph for her work, and thusly broke those rules.
You seem to be avoiding this blatant truth, Cesarin. Perhaps you know you
can't be right about that, that you know that what he did in way of the
commission was wrong.
Grow up and listen.
-Taleron
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example."
- Samuel L. Clemens (PEN NAME: Mark Twain)
Preyfar
- S. "Preyfar" Piché
ICQ: 6435423
AIM: hyena divine
MAIL: pre...@hyenaspot.net
WEB: http://www.hyenaspot.net/preyfar
Rust
news:aahklk$2ght$1...@velox.critter.net:
> I do apologise. And I suggest you just ignore this conversation, it's
> not pretty, and I don't blame you.
Understand, I sympathize with your position. I truly do. But beyond a
'caveat vendor' to other artists and a heads-up for the auction, this
thread... well, I suppose I've seen plenty enough character assasination in
the furry fandom already, and I hope all involved will be willing to quit
trying to ruin one another.
Insomnicon
>Because of course, we forced you to read them all.
>
>Makes perfect sense.
No, I think Winterbeast is being forced to read them all, presumably locked
in some dark chamber and strapped to a cold metal chair. It is so selfish of
us to talk about uninteresting things, and should be more considerate in the
future about the flame to pron ratio.
A. Seraph
is really not the point, as I see it.
Which is failure to pay. He didn't actually say anything about not paying
me, what he did is tell me he hated me and then offered me rediculous sums
of money, which I took for goading sarcasm.
After this, I couldn't imagine that he would still pay me anyways, even
though he's now saying this is the case. Basically, that he hates me, hates
my art, but because I'm starting to develop a name, and also because he
wants to avoid being accused of fraud, he's still willing to pay me.
But this isn't about money. I'm not like that. It's about being lied to.
Anyways... I'm sorry this went so far. I didn't mean this to get so direly
out of hand.
-Seraph
A. Seraph
honest and subtle, and didn't include any specifics. I do have a temper
though, and I react poorly when people flame at me.
-Seraph
Cesarin The White DraGoN
Jim usually offers
amazing isnt it?
James Allen ALWAYS PAYS before getting the piece, that means. he orders the
piece, he talks about it, if he likes the sketch.. he pays for it.
and have talked many times with Tevildo, and he still says the same. YOU
NEVER TOLD HIM SORRY for acting like a jerk when he posted by mistake your
full name in his website.
Cesarin
"A. Seraph" <Kab...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:aai5l7$2t8n$1...@velox.critter.net...
A. Seraph
it could wait until I was finished both pictures.. That is true. So
there's a good chance he would have paid me. I don't know. I never said
he refused to pay me. I just said he wasn't going to - meaning it was
inferred rather than stated.
And I remember the conversation quite well wherein I did apologise. I asked
him if something was wrong, he told me that he was angry at me for being
bitchy with him over the name. I apologised, I told him I didn't mean it,
and that I was just being paranoid. And he said something similar to
'That's good, now I can respond to your posts on FAE again.'
I'm a nice person most of the time, Cesarin. I don't pull the kind of
nonsense you're accusing me of.
-Seraph
Preyfar
> _me_. If <EDITED> has been lying about me, then I feel that I'm entitled to
> defend my position, and use what is apparently the only weapon I have
> against her to whatever effect I can.
WHOO! Let's just add salt to the wound! *tosses some shakers around* Way
t'go, mate! This whole THING was started, apparently, but your use of
her name on the site, and there you go PUBLICALLY broadcasting it.
You have successfully elevated the stakes of the flamewar.
You gain 2,500 experience points and gain a level, earning the title of
Apprentice of the Flame. You are awarded -2 intelligence points and gain
.5 skill in trolling.
- S. "Preyfar" Piché, who had the decency to repost this, omitted
Seraph's name thanks to the suggestion of a kind individual.
Silvermane
It seems that there are some serious misconceptions about the nature of
commissioned work going around in some artists heads. I suggest all
artists check their terms and conditions to make sure they say what they
mean when taking a commission.
Note this is not a full dissertation!
1. A commission is a contract between an artist and a commissioner,
involving payment for the successful completion of the contract. Note
this carefully. There is no onus on the commissioner to pay you anything
until you have completed the commission to his or her satisfaction.
If you fail to satisfy the contract at the first attempt you may :
a> Correct the items causing dissatisfaction.
b> Negotiate an acceptable compromise price for the artwork.
c> Try again.
d> Refund the commission fee IN FULL (that means including any advance).
If you try again you may sell the rejected original yourself, as it now
falls outside the commission contract, but you should make it clear to
the commissioner that you intend to do so.
2. When negotiating a commission you should ensure that it is made clear
what uses for the finished artwork you accept the commissioner may
pursue. Posting artwork on web pages is common and all your contracts
should make it clear what rights you grant for this, including any
restrictions (eg low quality scans to prevent printing) and how you wish
to be credited in any such publication.
3. You should always specify and agree with the commissioner who shall
have copyright and reproduction rights to the finished image,
particularly since a commissioner could argue that they were the
'creative mind' behind the picture. Your commission price should be
adjusted to take into account any profits you might lose from print
sales if the commissioner wants reproduction rights and you should
always insist on your right to be identified as the artist.
As the artist you should be in control of the commissioning process
until you have agreed to accept the commission. At that point the
'power' passes to the commissioner as you MUST complete the commission
to his or her satisfaction before you have any right to the agreed
payment. If you have any conditions regarding publication (web pages) or
the name under which you wish to be recognised then you MUST make this
clear to the commissioner before accepting the contract. You CANNOT wail
about things later, particularly in public forums and certainly cannot
accuse someone of refusing to pay if you have not completed the
commission successfully. This is generally known as libel.
Think about this. You go to a car dealers to buy a small, cheap car. The
salesman WANTS to sell you a large, expensive car. You eventually make a
contract for the dealer to supply a small car, which you ask to be
painted blue. When the car is supplied you discover it is painted green.
The dealer has failed to comply with the contract and you have the right
to refuse to accept the car and the dealer has no right to payment. I
think everyone will understand that. The same principal applies to
commissioned artwork.
Now, go and check your contract terms and conditions for commissions and
stop relying on whimsical unwritten rules and public bitching to get
your way.
Regards,
Silvermane aka Ian Stradling
Li...@faradawn.demon.co.uk
Dainties - The Web Page http://www.fysh.org/~liger/Fanzines/Dianties.html
A. Seraph
And long-windedly, too.
-Seraph
Catai
> accusations about unauthorized art remaining available.
>
> Jim Allen
Well Jim, as the picture itself is in fact removed from your site, you did
however forget to remove the thumbnail and description from the "other
characters" section of your website.
http://www.jimx.clara.net/OtherChars.htm
AS_Vitalia.jpg (618 x 800 x 16M - 240k)
Vitalia charging fearsomely through an arcade of pillars, wielding her
sword. Excellent tail armour.
Image Drawn by and Copyright Š Seraph
I just thought I'd bring that to your attention, "Tevdildo".
-C