I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by making a few design changes.
I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names I can come up with):
- Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent page or in RSS feeds - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent page and in RSS feeds
Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed silliness.
I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it easier to understand what's going on.
The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never used that feature anyway :)
I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with normal blogging engines.
This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and pages.
How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by making a few design changes.
I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names I can come up with): a.. Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it b.. Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent page or in RSS feeds c.. Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent page and in RSS feeds Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed silliness.
I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it easier to understand what's going on.
The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never used that feature anyway :)
I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote: > I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by > making a few design changes.
> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names > I can come up with):
> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it > - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent > page or in RSS feeds > - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent > page and in RSS feeds
> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing > a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the > categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is > associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog > posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from > Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed > silliness.
> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it > easier to understand what's going on.
> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But > realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the > PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never > used that feature anyway :)
> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with > normal blogging engines.
Interesting thought, why not make the feeds come out as OData, so you can just provide people a query for a feed of a particular category, so Umbraco posts would be /feeds/?category=Umbraco
That will allow you to have combination feeds (Umbraco & Orchard), and other cool stuff Aaron Powell Umbraco Core Team Member
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Andrew Tobin <and...@grrargh.com> wrote: > Why use categories instead of tags that would already be on the post, and > do some type-ahead, or drop-down/checkbox scenario for existing tags?
> Just thinking you could do a RSS feed based off any particular tag, or a > tag-search page, etc.
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by >> making a few design changes.
>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >> names I can come up with):
>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it >> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent >> page or in RSS feeds >> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >> page and in RSS feeds
>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing >> a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >> silliness.
>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >> it easier to understand what's going on.
>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >> used that feature anyway :)
>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >> normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Andrew Tobin <and...@grrargh.com> wrote: > Why use categories instead of tags that would already be on the post, and > do some type-ahead, or drop-down/checkbox scenario for existing tags?
> Just thinking you could do a RSS feed based off any particular tag, or a > tag-search page, etc.
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by >> making a few design changes.
>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >> names I can come up with):
>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it >> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent >> page or in RSS feeds >> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >> page and in RSS feeds
>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing >> a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >> silliness.
>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >> it easier to understand what's going on.
>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >> used that feature anyway :)
>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >> normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote: > Great point, it would definitely be nice to not have Feeds/Categories + > Tags - we could implement a tag selector like this:
> When you use a tag that didn't exist before, we could dynamically create > the tag record.
> Paul
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Andrew Tobin <and...@grrargh.com> wrote:
>> Why use categories instead of tags that would already be on the post, and >> do some type-ahead, or drop-down/checkbox scenario for existing tags?
>> Just thinking you could do a RSS feed based off any particular tag, or a >> tag-search page, etc.
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by >>> making a few design changes.
>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>> names I can come up with):
>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it >>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >>> page and in RSS feeds
>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>> silliness.
>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >>> it easier to understand what's going on.
>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>> used that feature anyway :)
>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>> normal blogging engines.
Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can probably do it tonight.
Paul
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and > pages.
> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but > I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> > *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM > *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by > making a few design changes.
> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names > I can come up with):
> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it > - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent > page or in RSS feeds > - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent > page and in RSS feeds
> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing > a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the > categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is > associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog > posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from > Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed > silliness.
> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it > easier to understand what's going on.
> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But > realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the > PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never > used that feature anyway :)
> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with > normal blogging engines.
Yep. Our migration could even look at your existing keywords (which are kind of tags), split them out, and create and populate the Category records, so you don't have to edit any old posts.
>> When you use a tag that didn't exist before, we could dynamically create >> the tag record.
>> Paul
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Andrew Tobin <and...@grrargh.com>wrote:
>>> Why use categories instead of tags that would already be on the post, and >>> do some type-ahead, or drop-down/checkbox scenario for existing tags?
>>> Just thinking you could do a RSS feed based off any particular tag, or a >>> tag-search page, etc.
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts >>>> by making a few design changes.
>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>> names I can come up with):
>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it >>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >>>> page and in RSS feeds
>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>>> silliness.
>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >>>> it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>>> normal blogging engines.
Just need to string-split the current categories, then map them into a new table. Think you can do it entirely in SQL :P Aaron Powell Umbraco Core Team Member
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote: > Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without > breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can > probably do it tonight.
> Paul
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>> +1. This.
>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >> pages.
>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but >> I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts >> by making a few design changes.
>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >> names I can come up with):
>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it >> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent >> page or in RSS feeds >> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >> page and in RSS feeds
>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing >> a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >> silliness.
>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >> it easier to understand what's going on.
>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >> used that feature anyway :)
>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >> normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Aaron Powell <m...@aaron-powell.com> wrote: > Just need to string-split the current categories, then map them into a new > table. Think you can do it entirely in SQL :P
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without >> breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can >> probably do it tonight.
>> Paul
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>> +1. This.
>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>> pages.
>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but >>> I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts >>> by making a few design changes.
>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>> names I can come up with):
>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it >>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >>> page and in RSS feeds
>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>> silliness.
>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >>> it easier to understand what's going on.
>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>> used that feature anyway :)
>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>> normal blogging engines.
Cool. So you’re thinking we have a TagController so we can visit /tag/foo and see all the posts tagged with “foo”?
I guess in terms of feeds we keep the FeedController, and where we’re currently passing a “feedName” to the Feed method (to get to a given feed) we’d be passing a tag instead. So the feed for posts tagged with “foo” would be at /feed/foo. Does that sound about right?
From: Aaron Powell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 12:57 PM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote:
Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can probably do it tonight.
Paul
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
+1. This.
This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and pages.
How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by making a few design changes.
I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names I can come up with): a.. Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it b.. Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent page or in RSS feeds c.. Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent page and in RSS feeds Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed silliness.
I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it easier to understand what's going on.
The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never used that feature anyway :)
I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote: > Cool. So you’re thinking we have a TagController so we can visit > /tag/foo and see all the posts tagged with “foo”? > I guess in terms of feeds we keep the FeedController, and where we’re > currently passing a “feedName” to the Feed method (to get to a given feed) > we’d be passing a tag instead. So the feed for posts tagged with “foo” would > be at /feed/foo. Does that sound about right?
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without >>> breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can >>> probably do it tonight.
>>> Paul
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>> +1. This.
>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>>> pages.
>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but >>>> I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>> names I can come up with):
>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it
>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >>>> page and in RSS feeds
>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>>> silliness.
>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >>>> it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>>> normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Aaron Powell <m...@aaron-powell.com> wrote: > Not quite, that controller is for the internal workings of FunnelWeb, how > you do a lookup of the autocomplete and stuff
> As I said before (and maybe i should create a new thread) I think the feed > should be OData
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>> Cool. So you’re thinking we have a TagController so we can visit >> /tag/foo and see all the posts tagged with “foo”? >> I guess in terms of feeds we keep the FeedController, and where we’re >> currently passing a “feedName” to the Feed method (to get to a given feed) >> we’d be passing a tag instead. So the feed for posts tagged with “foo” would >> be at /feed/foo. Does that sound about right?
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do >>>> without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of >>>> work, I can probably do it tonight.
>>>> Paul
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>>> +1. This.
>>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>>>> pages.
>>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes >>>>> but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>>> names I can come up with):
>>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see >>>>> it >>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the >>>>> Recent page and in RSS feeds
>>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>>>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>>>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>>>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>>>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>>>> silliness.
>>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and >>>>> makes it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>>>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>>>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>>>> normal blogging engines.
Ah right. Yeah, surfacing the posts as OData feeds (which are just ATOM feeds anyway), makes total sense. Heck, if it was an updatable feed then we’d have an API right there.
From: Aaron Powell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 1:08 PM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
Not quite, that controller is for the internal workings of FunnelWeb, how you do a lookup of the autocomplete and stuff
As I said before (and maybe i should create a new thread) I think the feed should be OData Aaron Powell Umbraco Core Team Member
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
Cool. So you’re thinking we have a TagController so we can visit /tag/foo and see all the posts tagged with “foo”?
I guess in terms of feeds we keep the FeedController, and where we’re currently passing a “feedName” to the Feed method (to get to a given feed) we’d be passing a tag instead. So the feed for posts tagged with “foo” would be at /feed/foo. Does that sound about right?
From: Aaron Powell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 12:57 PM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote:
Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can probably do it tonight.
Paul
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
+1. This.
This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and pages.
How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by making a few design changes.
I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names I can come up with): a.. Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it b.. Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent page or in RSS feeds c.. Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent page and in RSS feeds Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed silliness.
I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it easier to understand what's going on.
The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never used that feature anyway :)
I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote: > I'm not familiar with odata, I'd like it if you could explain more.
> So in your change set, how far along are you? I was just writing some SQL > scripts to create the new tag tables, but if you've already made a start...
> Paul
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Aaron Powell <m...@aaron-powell.com>wrote:
>> Not quite, that controller is for the internal workings of FunnelWeb, how >> you do a lookup of the autocomplete and stuff
>> As I said before (and maybe i should create a new thread) I think the feed >> should be OData
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>> Cool. So you’re thinking we have a TagController so we can visit >>> /tag/foo and see all the posts tagged with “foo”? >>> I guess in terms of feeds we keep the FeedController, and where we’re >>> currently passing a “feedName” to the Feed method (to get to a given feed) >>> we’d be passing a tag instead. So the feed for posts tagged with “foo” would >>> be at /feed/foo. Does that sound about right?
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do >>>>> without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of >>>>> work, I can probably do it tonight.
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>>>> +1. This.
>>>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>>>>> pages.
>>>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes >>>>>> but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>>>> names I can come up with):
>>>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see >>>>>> it >>>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the >>>>>> Recent page and in RSS feeds
>>>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You >>>>>> tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently >>>>>> implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all >>>>>> public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL >>>>>> format.
>>>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>>>>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>>>>> silliness.
>>>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and >>>>>> makes it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the >>>>>> feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing >>>>>> the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>>>>> normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Aaron Powell <m...@aaron-powell.com> wrote: > Just need to string-split the current categories, then map them into a new > table. Think you can do it entirely in SQL :P
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without >> breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can >> probably do it tonight.
>> Paul
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>> +1. This.
>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>> pages.
>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but >>> I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts >>> by making a few design changes.
>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>> names I can come up with):
>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it >>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >>> page and in RSS feeds
>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>> silliness.
>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >>> it easier to understand what's going on.
>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>> used that feature anyway :)
>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>> normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote:
Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can probably do it tonight.
Paul
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
+1. This.
This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and pages.
How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by making a few design changes.
I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names I can come up with): a.. Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it b.. Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent page or in RSS feeds c.. Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent page and in RSS feeds Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed silliness.
I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it easier to understand what's going on.
The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never used that feature anyway :)
I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with normal blogging engines.
> I have a backup at home so I can give it a try tonight.
> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> > *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 1:44 PM > *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
> OK, here's a SQL script that will be part of the migration (there's a > second part to drop the current columns, but I'll do that later)
> I just ran it over a backup of PaulStovell.com and it seems to work OK. Can > you run it over a *backup :) *of your databases and see how it behaves?
> (You can get a backup from the StudioCoast database page)
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without >>> breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can >>> probably do it tonight.
>>> Paul
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>> +1. This.
>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>>> pages.
>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but >>>> I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>> names I can come up with):
>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it
>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent >>>> page and in RSS feeds
>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>>> silliness.
>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes >>>> it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>>> normal blogging engines.
Script ran successfully! I’d post my tag cloud but this was a backup I took quite some time ago when there were only ~8 posts. It was definitely an up to date version of the database schema though.
Matt
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:03 PM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
Just updated the script at that gist to include dropping the tables/columns, and building a "tag cloud" - here's mine:
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote:
Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can probably do it tonight.
Paul
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
+1. This.
This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and pages.
How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by making a few design changes.
I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names I can come up with): a.. Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it b.. Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent page or in RSS feeds c.. Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent page and in RSS feeds Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed silliness.
I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it easier to understand what's going on.
The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never used that feature anyway :)
I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote: > Script ran successfully! I’d post my tag cloud but this was a backup I > took quite some time ago when there were only ~8 posts. It was definitely an > up to date version of the database schema though.
> Matt
> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> > *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 2:03 PM > *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
> Just updated the script at that gist to include dropping the > tables/columns, and building a "tag cloud" - here's mine:
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>> I have a backup at home so I can give it a try tonight.
>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 1:44 PM >> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>> OK, here's a SQL script that will be part of the migration (there's a >> second part to drop the current columns, but I'll do that later)
>> I just ran it over a backup of PaulStovell.com and it seems to work OK. >> Can you run it over a *backup :) *of your databases and see how it >> behaves?
>> (You can get a backup from the StudioCoast database page)
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do >>>> without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of >>>> work, I can probably do it tonight.
>>>> Paul
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>>> +1. This.
>>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>>>> pages.
>>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes >>>>> but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>>> names I can come up with):
>>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see >>>>> it >>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the >>>>> Recent page and in RSS feeds
>>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick >>>>> the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is >>>>> associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog >>>>> posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
>>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>>>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>>>> silliness.
>>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and >>>>> makes it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. >>>>> But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the >>>>> PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>>>> normal blogging engines.
Deploy somewhere so we can see! Either FWHQ or your own site?
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:49 PM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
Great. I added some changes for the 'status' column on entries now, and most of the app is working. Should be able to check in shortly :)
Paul
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
Script ran successfully! I’d post my tag cloud but this was a backup I took quite some time ago when there were only ~8 posts. It was definitely an up to date version of the database schema though.
Matt
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:03 PM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
Just updated the script at that gist to include dropping the tables/columns, and building a "tag cloud" - here's mine:
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> wrote:
Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of work, I can probably do it tonight.
Paul
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
+1. This.
This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and pages.
How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
From: Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM To: funnelweblog@googlegroups.com Subject: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb concepts by making a few design changes.
I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best names I can come up with): a.. Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see it b.. Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the Recent page or in RSS feeds c.. Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the Recent page and in RSS feeds Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL format.
Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed silliness.
I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and makes it easier to understand what's going on.
The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never used that feature anyway :)
I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with normal blogging engines.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org> wrote: > Deploy somewhere so we can see! Either FWHQ or your own site?
> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> > *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 6:49 PM > *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
> Great. I added some changes for the 'status' column on entries now, and > most of the app is working. Should be able to check in shortly :)
> Paul
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>> Script ran successfully! I’d post my tag cloud but this was a backup I >> took quite some time ago when there were only ~8 posts. It was definitely an >> up to date version of the database schema though.
>> Matt
>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 2:03 PM >> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>> Just updated the script at that gist to include dropping the >> tables/columns, and building a "tag cloud" - here's mine:
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>> I have a backup at home so I can give it a try tonight.
>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 1:44 PM >>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>> OK, here's a SQL script that will be part of the migration (there's a >>> second part to drop the current columns, but I'll do that later)
>>> I just ran it over a backup of PaulStovell.com and it seems to work OK. >>> Can you run it over a *backup :) *of your databases and see how it >>> behaves?
>>> (You can get a backup from the StudioCoast database page)
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com>wrote:
>>>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do >>>>> without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of >>>>> work, I can probably do it tonight.
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>>>> +1. This.
>>>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts and >>>>>> pages.
>>>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes >>>>>> but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>>>> names I can come up with):
>>>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see >>>>>> it >>>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the >>>>>> Recent page and in RSS feeds
>>>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You >>>>>> tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently >>>>>> implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all >>>>>> public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL >>>>>> format.
>>>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select from >>>>>> Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of feed >>>>>> silliness.
>>>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and >>>>>> makes it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the >>>>>> feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing >>>>>> the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line with >>>>>> normal blogging engines.
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>> Deploy somewhere so we can see! Either FWHQ or your own site?
>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 6:49 PM >> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>> Great. I added some changes for the 'status' column on entries now, and >> most of the app is working. Should be able to check in shortly :)
>> Paul
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>> Script ran successfully! I’d post my tag cloud but this was a backup I >>> took quite some time ago when there were only ~8 posts. It was definitely an >>> up to date version of the database schema though.
>>> Matt
>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 2:03 PM >>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>> Just updated the script at that gist to include dropping the >>> tables/columns, and building a "tag cloud" - here's mine:
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>> I have a backup at home so I can give it a try tonight.
>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 1:44 PM >>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>> OK, here's a SQL script that will be part of the migration (there's a >>>> second part to drop the current columns, but I'll do that later)
>>>> I just ran it over a backup of PaulStovell.com and it seems to work OK. >>>> Can you run it over a *backup :) *of your databases and see how it >>>> behaves?
>>>> (You can get a backup from the StudioCoast database page)
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com >>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do >>>>>> without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of >>>>>> work, I can probably do it tonight.
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org >>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> +1. This.
>>>>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts >>>>>>> and pages.
>>>>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes >>>>>>> but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>>>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the best >>>>>>> names I can come up with):
>>>>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can see >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>>>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>>>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the >>>>>>> Recent page and in RSS feeds
>>>>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>>>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You >>>>>>> tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently >>>>>>> implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all >>>>>>> public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL >>>>>>> format.
>>>>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select >>>>>>> from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of >>>>>>> feed silliness.
>>>>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and >>>>>>> makes it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the >>>>>>> feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing >>>>>>> the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>>>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line >>>>>>> with normal blogging engines.
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>> Deploy somewhere so we can see! Either FWHQ or your own site?
>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 6:49 PM >>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>> Great. I added some changes for the 'status' column on entries now, and >>> most of the app is working. Should be able to check in shortly :)
>>> Paul
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>> Script ran successfully! I’d post my tag cloud but this was a backup >>>> I took quite some time ago when there were only ~8 posts. It was definitely >>>> an up to date version of the database schema though.
>>>> Matt
>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 2:03 PM >>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>> Just updated the script at that gist to include dropping the >>>> tables/columns, and building a "tag cloud" - here's mine:
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>>> I have a backup at home so I can give it a try tonight.
>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 1:44 PM >>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>> OK, here's a SQL script that will be part of the migration (there's >>>>> a second part to drop the current columns, but I'll do that later)
>>>>> I just ran it over a backup of PaulStovell.com and it seems to work OK. >>>>> Can you run it over a *backup :) *of your databases and see how it >>>>> behaves?
>>>>> (You can get a backup from the StudioCoast database page)
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell < >>>>>> p...@paulstovell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do >>>>>>> without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of >>>>>>> work, I can probably do it tonight.
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton < >>>>>>> mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> +1. This.
>>>>>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts >>>>>>>> and pages.
>>>>>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology changes >>>>>>>> but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>>>>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>>>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the >>>>>>>> best names I can come up with):
>>>>>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can >>>>>>>> see it >>>>>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>>>>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>>>>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the >>>>>>>> Recent page and in RSS feeds
>>>>>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>>>>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>>>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You >>>>>>>> tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently >>>>>>>> implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all >>>>>>>> public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL >>>>>>>> format.
>>>>>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select >>>>>>>> from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of >>>>>>>> feed silliness.
>>>>>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and >>>>>>>> makes it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>>>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the >>>>>>>> feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing >>>>>>>> the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>>>>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>>>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line >>>>>>>> with normal blogging engines.
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>> Deploy somewhere so we can see! Either FWHQ or your own site?
>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 6:49 PM >>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>> Great. I added some changes for the 'status' column on entries now, and >>>> most of the app is working. Should be able to check in shortly :)
>>>> Paul
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>>> Script ran successfully! I’d post my tag cloud but this was a backup >>>>> I took quite some time ago when there were only ~8 posts. It was definitely >>>>> an up to date version of the database schema though.
>>>>> Matt
>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 2:03 PM >>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>> Just updated the script at that gist to include dropping the >>>>> tables/columns, and building a "tag cloud" - here's mine:
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Matt Hamilton <mabs...@madprops.org>wrote:
>>>>>> I have a backup at home so I can give it a try tonight.
>>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 1:44 PM >>>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>>> OK, here's a SQL script that will be part of the migration (there's >>>>>> a second part to drop the current columns, but I'll do that later)
>>>>>> I just ran it over a backup of PaulStovell.com and it seems to work >>>>>> OK. Can you run it over a *backup :) *of your databases and see how >>>>>> it behaves?
>>>>>> (You can get a backup from the StudioCoast database page)
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Paul Stovell < >>>>>>> p...@paulstovell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Definitely a database upgrade, though it should be possible to do >>>>>>>> without breaking anything. I don't think it would be a *huge* amount of >>>>>>>> work, I can probably do it tonight.
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Matt Hamilton < >>>>>>>> mabs...@madprops.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> +1. This.
>>>>>>>>> This is actually much more in line with how Graffiti handles posts >>>>>>>>> and pages.
>>>>>>>>> How hard will this be, Paul? A lot of it is just terminology >>>>>>>>> changes but I’m guessing there’s at least one database upgrade in there too.
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Paul Stovell <p...@paulstovell.com> >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:51 AM >>>>>>>>> *To:* funnelweblog@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Rethinking Feeds/Categories and Private Pages
>>>>>>>>> I think there's an opportunity to simplify a lot of FunnelWeb >>>>>>>>> concepts by making a few design changes.
>>>>>>>>> I think there are three "states" a page can be in (these are the >>>>>>>>> best names I can come up with):
>>>>>>>>> - Private - you're composing it, but only logged in users can >>>>>>>>> see it >>>>>>>>> - Public Page - anyone can see it, but it doesn't appear on the >>>>>>>>> Recent page or in RSS feeds >>>>>>>>> - Public Blog Post - anyone can see it, and it appears on the >>>>>>>>> Recent page and in RSS feeds
>>>>>>>>> Suppose we implement those three states in FunnelWeb, so that when >>>>>>>>> editing a page, you choose the state from a list of radio buttons.
>>>>>>>>> Next, we change the 'feeds' feature to be called 'categories'. You >>>>>>>>> tick the categories the page (not the revision, as its currently >>>>>>>>> implemented) is associated with. You can consume the site-wide RSS feed (all >>>>>>>>> public blog posts), or a category-specific feed, using the existing URL >>>>>>>>> format.
>>>>>>>>> Finally, we change the RSS feeds and /Recent lists to just select >>>>>>>>> from Published entries and order by PublishDate, rather than any kind of >>>>>>>>> feed silliness.
>>>>>>>>> I think it would simplify all the issues we have around dates, and >>>>>>>>> makes it easier to understand what's going on.
>>>>>>>>> The one feature we would lose is re-publishing an old page in the >>>>>>>>> feed. But realistically, you can achieve the same effect just by changing >>>>>>>>> the PublishDate anyway. And in a year and a half of using FunnelWeb, I never >>>>>>>>> used that feature anyway :)
>>>>>>>>> I'm keen to take a crack at this and bring FunnelWeb more in line >>>>>>>>> with normal blogging engines.
