anyone especially ireland but anywhere really can add to message board below

[sparklingangel]

Hi guys.

I somehow got into a debate with a guy and I do not want to let the
good monastery down. will you take a look if you wish and comment if
you like.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60983796#post60983796

I am sparklingangel on the board and this guy is slagging the
monastery of etc. you know the score. if their is anyone from
ireland who can give more of the lack of services in ireland i would
appreciate it.

cheers guys.

Audrey

[Audrey Ward]

Oh me and sparklingangel we the same name. If I go into google groups it
comes up with my user name. but if I reply from my own email well its just
plain old Audrey

[John Cox]

Hey Audrey,

 

I think it's good that people question Thamkrabok, I think the guy made some good points, and he also made some very bad ones too. I have obviously benefitted it from visiting the place but I do think that it's not for everyone.

 

Personally I don't think the place would measure up under a western style of scrutiny, its effects can only ever be anecdotal because of the nature of the place. I think that's actually a good thing, there no formula that can be taken away from the Monastery and reproduced under laboratory conditions, that's the magic or maybe a placebo effect or what ever you want to call it.

 

I just know it worked for me, but I like to think that's mainly because of me and not the monastery, ok maybe a little bit the monastery lol but you get my point.

 

I guess my point is that Thamkrabok isn't a place for reason and logic in the western sense and nor should it be, when people are cynical about the place it's good and not something to be offended by.

Keep up the good work, your passion is infectious :-)

 

Coxy

---

From: Audrey Ward <audrey...@eircom.net>
To: Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 4 July, 2009 6:01:25
Subject: [FOTM:1972] Re: anyone especially ireland but anywhere really can add to message board below

[stuart]

Hey Audrey...
I think John has made some very good points there!
Dont get too wrapped up on what studio rat is saying, he may well be a
frustrated drugs worker, and would not know what to do should he come
across a client that wanted to detox, probably raise thier script or
pass them on to someone else. Holiday in Thailand indeed, ive heard it
all before, the guy just does'nt know. Well he maybe came across some
figures about success rates, and yes i dont always agree about the
claims made about the success rates of the TKB detox, it works if your
willing, and are serious about changing your life. He has a point
about aftercare, although we do have good aftercare in Dundee, people
do have to want to engage with this though. I think and its only what
i think, the guy (iam assuming he is a guy here) Well he did also make
a lot of assumptions, i think this person is either a drugs worker,
who like a lot of other workers get scared when addicts get clean, or
want to stop cause most can't work with that, they don't know how to.
They start labeling us and assuming we have swapped addictions, they
hate losing control of people it makes them feel worthy when they are
the big I AM. You see in my opinion clean addicts know the services
inside out and that scares them. Anyway maybe this person's brother
isnt doing so well and all his bumf is frustration at that very point.
He also doesn't seem keen on NA another avenue that helps and works
for thousands all over the world, maybe his brother went to NA and
that did not work either. Anyway Audrey, you and Garry and the rest of
the Irish crew are doing a great job in my opinion, who needs
reports!!! We know!! thats what matters. Most services are buried
under admin that hides the true reflection of how shite they really
are doing. I will send nothing but good thoughts for studiorat,
probabaly 10 seconds worth. You take care and keep up the good work.


Stuart

On Jul 4, 12:46 am, John Cox <johncox2...@ymail.com> wrote:
> Hey Audrey,
>  
> I think it's good that people question Thamkrabok, I think the guy made some good points, and he also made some very bad ones too. I have obviously benefitted it from visiting the place but I do think that it's not for everyone.
>  
> Personally I don't think the place would measure up under a western style of scrutiny, its effects can only ever be anecdotal because of the nature of the place. I think that's actually a good thing, there no formula that can be taken away from the Monastery and reproduced under laboratory conditions, that's the magic or maybe a placebo effect or what ever you want to call it.
>  
> I just know it worked for me, but I like to think that's mainly because of me and not the monastery, ok maybe a little bit the monastery lol but you get my point.
>  
> I guess my point is that Thamkrabok isn't a place for reason and logic in the western sense and nor should it be, when people are cynical about the place it's good and not something to be offended by.
> Keep up the good work, your passion is infectious :-)
> Coxy 
>
> ________________________________

> From: Audrey Ward <audreysde...@eircom.net>

> To: Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, 4 July, 2009 6:01:25
> Subject: [FOTM:1972] Re: anyone especially ireland but anywhere really can add to message board below
>
> Oh me and sparklingangel we the same name.  If I go into google groups it
> comes up with my user name. but if I reply from my own email well its just
> plain old Audrey
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> sparklingangel
> Sent: 03 July 2009 20:47
> To: Friends of Thamkrabok Monastery
> Subject: [FOTM:1971] anyone especially ireland but anywhere really can add
> to message board below
>
> Hi guys.
>
> I somehow got into a debate with a guy and I do not want to let the
> good monastery down.  will you take a look if you wish and comment if
> you like.
>
> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60983796#post60983796
>
> I am sparklingangel on the board and this guy is slagging the
> monastery of etc.  you know the score.  if their is anyone from
> ireland who can give more of the lack of services in ireland i would
> appreciate it.
>
> cheers guys.
>

> Audrey- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[garro]

Stuart and John, you both make a lot of sense. I also suspect that
this guy is involved in the recovery bizz. There is another fella over
here who is had been really negative about the temple . He let slip
though one day that he has his own recovery centre; a very plush one
on one of the Thai islands.

I don't think though that I am as spiritually evolved as you other
cool heads. Progress not perfection; right? I tend to get really
defensive when people piss on a treatment option like Thamkrabok. I
know that everyone is entitled to his opinion, but comments like that
which go unchallenged can really turn people off a treatment option.

Great seeing you last week Stuart. I hope your trip back to sweaty-
sock land went well. Metta.
Paul

[stuart]

Hey Paul..
Nice to meet up with you as well last week, even though
it was brief. Still its good to meet people whom i have had contact
with on line but never met. Trip home was good thanks, sweaty sock
land is having some nice weather at the mo. We will be over around
xmas time, so if yir no back in the emerald isle at that time maybe we
can meet up again. Iam as passionate as the rest of us about
Thamkrabok, although lets be real, it is no miracle cure,i had to
fight every step of the way to get through my detox, it worked for me
cause i wanted it to. I know of more who have relapsed and returned to
drugs than i do of people who have stayed clean, after completeing the
TKB detox.Although in saying that, i know more people who have
remained drug free after this detox, than any other i can think of. I
for one will keep getting on my Thamkrabok soap box at every
opportunity. This can be a viable option for some, and hopefully one
day in Dundee when clients are allowed to "choose" thier option of
detox and treatment, Thamkrabok will be included in those.Take care
all.


Stuart

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Audrey Ward]

You lot are just amazing. I really felt out of my dept. Brian I believe
you came into my life at just the right point. Your words have life and a
place in my head. (thanks for your email)

Paul you know who I am and we on the same side, (thanks to for your email)

Tommy getting to know me and all the good work you do with a frustrating
system.

The response so quickly was just heart warming and lifting. Stuart, John,
MFK, or e Aldo as I fondly know him with his false Id.

I would like to make a comment on statistics. We have been asked for a
radio programme and it was a big prime time one for statistics. They where
not to interested in much else till they got some. The statistics we did
where purely from people we are associated with. I do believe of course
they are only what was told to us and not a "urine sample report" If you
know what I mean. But I had to work with what I had. None of us are silly
and it did not matter as no one knows true statistics in any organization
when the subject is so sensitive. What was important for us was that they
agreed to talk to us and we spread awareness.

When I went to my doctor last year and asked for help to get of my drugs
both prescription and illegal. I was horrified to be told that there was no
where for me. Wean of myself. Unless I had 15,000 euro for private care.
This pushed me to give people an option. I gained a lot from Thamkrabok and
just want to share it. It is up to the individual. After care is a
problem, but some of the recent patients I have been dealing with on one to
one basis are being helped. I have organized appropriate councelling for
them, free of charge in the organization I am involved with. Some problems
are not about the addiction but what the addiction is fighting.

I so believe Thamkrabok worked for me because I went at a time when I would
have cut of my right arm to give up my variety of chosen substances. I
mentally had already heard the switch go of. It was physical that was
holding me back. That is not to say that its all over now and I am
recovered. I am still recovering. But my frame of mind although cries out
sometimes for help, and would love some stimulation, freedom from thoughts
etc., seems to be on my side and the tip to say no is much greater than the
temptation. Getting better by the month. I would also like to say we should
never forget those who lose the battle now and then as most of us have been
there. With enough support they should feel okay to talk about it and not
be ashamed and afraid that they be looked down on and judged. No one will
ever get better with negatives responses. We are truly here to help each
other or say nothing at all. In my opinion and it was said by the host also
on the radio programme we where on. If there is an option of going to the
moon and eating a rock and that works for some people then provisions should
be made to get them there. The problem is so many people not enough help.
All options should be promoted. Especially ones that are not in it for the
money. Like Thamkrabok.

Anyway I was lucky. Sure just luck at the friends you make and support you
get. I have to say out of all the places I have heard of and met people. I
never saw and witnessed such a bond of love for a detox centre. Surely that
says it all.

You all will be in my thoughts tonight. And a special mention for each and
everyone of you in my prayers.

Warmest thank you

[Audrey Ward]

Ian thank you so much as well just saw your board comment. I was losing
energy and you took over. Saw your pics that Vince sent around. So glad you
got there. Its what you wanted. I always think Thamkrabok is like putting
the breaks on the world for a while and stepping into a different stress
free realm. A retreat. I know its more. But just that bit alone can help
people. Now a photo in the brown robes next.

Audrey

-----Original Message-----
From: Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of

Audrey Ward
Sent: 03 July 2009 21:01
To: Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com

[metalface from kent]

....I'm not going to get too 'wrapped-up' in what the aptly named
'studiorat' has to say about the lack of whatever at
Thamkrabok,especially as I stopped reading about half way.He did make
some valid points though I more had issue with the way he was making
them.I certainly cant (and am un-willing) to add to what anyone else
has said-very well said all! I will only say that TKB can work for a
certain kind of person if circumstance and condition are right and
also that it does not profess to re-place or better conventional
western methods of assistence.
However WE are all living proof that it does!
mfk

P.s.I will say that perhaps he (studiorat) should refrain from making
'personnel',derogatory ,as I read them,remarks about other people,
until he's standing in front of them.

[Vince Cullen]

Hi Audrey and All,

You've received a lot of wise words from a lot of switched-on people.  Some personal thoughts follow...  I hope they do justice to, and complement the advice already given.  I apologise in advance if you’ve heard some of these words before.

Thamkrabok is a one-chance option... if someone is not ready they should not be encouraged to waste that one-chance.  In my opinion the right people get to Thamkrabok at the right time... and then they always succeed.

Individuals who are coerced to go to Thamkrabok, or who are misled into seeking a wonder cure, are the addicts that usually (there are very few exceptions) don't have the mindset or inner strength to maintain their Sajja.  Many of them relapse... some of them die.

I can’t stress enough the importance of being straight and honest with potential detoxees... Thamkrabok is not a miracle cure... it is better likened to cold-turkey in a hot-climate... it's uncomfortable and it's tough... it is certainly not "Junkies in Sunglasses and Deckchairs".  However, if an individual is willing to change their habits and their outlook, then there is a good chance that Sajja will work for them.  It would be unwise and unfair to fill up an aeroplane with addicts and take them to Thamkrabok... it would not work.

Of course, aftercare continues to be a concern.  Although this forum is a link back to the Thamkrabok Community (Sangha) there is still a lot of potential for more aftercare options and facilities outside of the monastery.  To this end, The Metta Farm project being developed up in Chiang Rai - by Johan and Hans - is one possible option ( see http://groups.google.com/group/Friends-of-Thamkrabok-Monastery/browse_thread/thread/706f6f85e860e472/caabf1039696084f#caabf1039696084f ).

I am fortunate to be able to visit Thamkrabok at least once a year to renew my Sajja and take part in some ‘medicine meditation’ etc.  I understand that not everyone has the same resources available to them so I have organised a 1-week retreat for ex-Thamkrabokers at The Barn in Devon, England.  In the longer-term I would like to work towards establishing a Buddhist (in part Thamkrabok) based lay-community rehabilitation centre somewhere in Europe... but that's just in thought at the moment, not a fact.

When we stop taking our drug(s) of choice we most often then find that we are morally lacking, or morally bankrupt, as it were.  We are without any real or 'whole' sense of integrity or morality.  In most instances we cannot even see this, just as we couldn't see our original addiction(s).  We have spent too many years lying, cheating, stealing, abusing and even prostituting ourselves; so when we get clean we simply do not know how to behave properly.  The Thamkrabok Sajja is not simply a vow to stop taking intoxicating substances; it is much more than this.  It is a commitment to starting a new life, embracing truth, loyalty, purity and honesty.  Effectively, we must change our view of the world, and our view of ourselves in that world.

In the West, we might benefit from joining a 12-Step programme similar to those offered by the AA or NA organisations.  However, there is potential for ex-Thamkrabokers to establish their own Buddhist-based recovery groups in their own towns and cities.  Some advice for doing this can be found at http://www.buddhistrecovery.com/doc_brn_group_guidance.htm (If appropriate, the 'Thamkrabok Chanting for Laypeople' is available as a booklet and on audio CD, to perhaps use at the beginning or end of any such recovery group meeting).

It is difficult and perhaps unwise to quote 'Success Rates' not only because these are so hard to define but also because these set up an expectation in advance of treatment.  Thamkrabok does not publish any figures for so called 'success rates' and anything heard on the monastery must be treated as purely anecdotal.  Any person or organisation claiming 60, 70 or even 80 percent success rates are effectively selling a wonder cure...  I deliberately say selling because there is normally a fee involved.  Thamkrabok works for the people it works for...

Just to end this message, I would like to express my own sadness at the recent death of Phra Hans.  Last week I was fortunate enough to be able to thank him for all of the help and support he had given me over the last seven years.  Thamkrabok has lost an inspirational teacher and I have lost a friend and mentor.  All things are temporary, transient and impermanent… including us.

May all Beings be free of addictions.
May all Beings be free of suffering.
May all Beings be happy.

Best wishes to all.

With Metta,

Vince
__________________________________
277
“All conditioned things
are impermanent”;
when we see this with insight
we will tire of this life of suffering.
This is the Way to purification.
__________________________________
A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATION
http://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemid=80

[metalface from kent]

.....a very sagely summing-up Vince.

I'd just like to add something quite unconnected which 'sprung to
mind' whilst reading your post and an issue I have been meaning to
raise (or 'squeeze-in') for some time and also something which I think
deserves a discussion thread alone.It was the phrase 'junkies in
sunglasses' that indirectly prompted me to raise the issue of a
certain sort of person that attends TKB as part of their travel
itinery out of some ego-driven,warped idea of 'celebratory' or as a
story to tell their mates back home in the pub (with a tattoo to
match)-I de-toxed with at least one such person-naturally I was too
polite to say anything.
I know these people exist-I'm talking about people with 'imaginary'
habits or problems-often as not the same sort of people think its
'cool and hip' to 'be' buddhist.I've even heard of suspected incidents
of people ordaining and then doing a 'runner' in the robes-which of
course entitles them to many benefits when travelling in Thailand.
It goes without saying I'm certain that anyone who contributes to
this board with any regularity is way out of the realms of this
catagory.
I know there is little the Monastary can do in 'weeding-out' such-
like given the simplicity of its system (which is in essence its
advantage and charm),but I know what they know-that 'karma will
repay'!!!(-I've seen this with my own eyes!)
It nevertheless aggravates me to think that Thamkrabok's limited and
hard-earned resources are being put to such use.

MFK

> Rai - by Johan and Hans - is one possible option ( seehttp://groups.google.com/group/Friends-of-Thamkrabok-Monastery/browse...).

>
> I am fortunate to be able to visit Thamkrabok at least once a year to renew
> my Sajja and take part in some ‘medicine meditation’ etc.  I understand that
> not everyone has the same resources available to them so I have organised a
> 1-week retreat for ex-Thamkrabokers at The Barn in Devon, England.  In the
> longer-term I would like to work towards establishing a Buddhist (in part
> Thamkrabok) based lay-community rehabilitation centre somewhere in Europe...
> but that's just in thought at the moment, not a fact.
>
> When we stop taking our drug(s) of choice we most often then find that we
> are morally lacking, or morally bankrupt, as it were.  We are without any
> real or 'whole' sense of integrity or morality.  In most instances we cannot
> even see this, just as we couldn't see our original addiction(s).  We have
> spent too many years lying, cheating, stealing, abusing and even
> prostituting ourselves; so when we get clean we simply do not know how to
> behave properly.  The Thamkrabok Sajja is not simply a vow to stop taking
> intoxicating substances; it is much more than this.  It is a commitment to
> starting a new life, embracing truth, loyalty, purity and honesty.
> Effectively, we must change our view of the world, and our view of ourselves
> in that world.
>
> In the West, we might benefit from joining a 12-Step programme similar to
> those offered by the AA or NA organisations.  However, there is potential
> for ex-Thamkrabokers to establish their own Buddhist-based recovery groups

> in their own towns and cities.  Some advice for doing this can be found athttp://www.buddhistrecovery.com/doc_brn_group_guidance.htm(If appropriate,

> A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATIONhttp://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemi...

[metalface from kent]

.....Phra Hans had a word for 'such-like' ('non-junkies in
sunglasses')-he briefly touched on his genuine grievence at this
during one of my too-few chats with him.He called them 'egyptians'-it
confused me at the time but I later discovered this context to be a
corruption of the word 'gypsy'-as in 'travelling-through'(-with no
disrespect I'm sure to genuine Romany 'heritage'.)mfk

On Jul 4, 4:15 pm, metalface from kent <boswelia...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

> > A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATIONhttp://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemi...- Hide quoted text -

[Vince Cullen]

Hi MFK,

Phra Hans often used to say that he or she is an Egyptian. 

When I asked what he meant he said "they are in denial"!

;-)

Best wishes,

Vince
__________________________________
278
“All conditioned things
are inherently lacking”;

when we see this with insight
we will tire of this life of suffering.
This is the Way to purification.
__________________________________
A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATION

http://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemid=80

2009/7/4 metalface from kent <boswe...@hotmail.co.uk>

[Audrey Ward]

I have taken on board many of your points and learnt from them.  Some changes to be made on my end.  Humbly.  My 1 year and 1 visit does not add up nearly to the experience of you and others.  I did the treatment and so far successful but I have so much more to discover.  In the last 24hrs the voice of many respected people on this has opened my eyes and I am grateful.    My mind is open and all is being absorbed.  You are so helping me and answering questions that I have not even thought of asking.

 

Vince that’s a great idea and good luck with that retreat.  Meet some day.

 

Audrey

 

---

[metalface from kent]

...Audrey,you're input,commitment and enthusiasm alone is humbling to
the rest of us.You're doing just 'grand',as the 'oirish would say!

...just one last word on 'studiorat' (I'm sorry-once I get a 'fly in
my head'!)-if his whole concept of Western Practice is questioned by
the methods of an obscure little monastery on the other side of the
World,whose western patient turnover is significantly neglible (by a
long,long shot!) as far as 'the problem ' is concerned- and enough to
have to 'de-fame' ANY success they do have-they I detect he may feel
challenged in some way.....and thats HIS problem-NOT anybody elses.
Glad he wasn't my Key-Worker!!
Mfk

P.s Perhaps he fears for his Job-who knows (who cares)!

On Jul 4, 5:15 pm, "Audrey Ward" <audreysde...@eircom.net> wrote:
> I have taken on board many of your points and learnt from them.  Some
> changes to be made on my end.  Humbly.  My 1 year and 1 visit does not add
> up nearly to the experience of you and others.  I did the treatment and so
> far successful but I have so much more to discover.  In the last 24hrs the
> voice of many respected people on this has opened my eyes and I am grateful.
> My mind is open and all is being absorbed.  You are so helping me and
> answering questions that I have not even thought of asking.
>
> Vince that's a great idea and good luck with that retreat.  Meet some day.
>
> Audrey
>
>   _____  
>

> Rai - by Johan and Hans - is one possible option ( seehttp://groups.google.com/group/Friends-of-Thamkrabok-Monastery/browse...

> /thread/706f6f85e860e472/caabf1039696084f#caabf1039696084f ).
>
> I am fortunate to be able to visit Thamkrabok at least once a year to renew
> my Sajja and take part in some 'medicine meditation' etc.  I understand that
> not everyone has the same resources available to them so I have organised a
> 1-week retreat for ex-Thamkrabokers at The Barn in Devon, England.  In the
> longer-term I would like to work towards establishing a Buddhist (in part
> Thamkrabok) based lay-community rehabilitation centre somewhere in Europe...
> but that's just in thought at the moment, not a fact.
>
> When we stop taking our drug(s) of choice we most often then find that we
> are morally lacking, or morally bankrupt, as it were.  We are without any
> real or 'whole' sense of integrity or morality.  In most instances we cannot
> even see this, just as we couldn't see our original addiction(s).  We have
> spent too many years lying, cheating, stealing, abusing and even
> prostituting ourselves; so when we get clean we simply do not know how to
> behave properly.  The Thamkrabok Sajja is not simply a vow to stop taking
> intoxicating substances; it is much more than this.  It is a commitment to
> starting a new life, embracing truth, loyalty, purity and honesty.
> Effectively, we must change our view of the world, and our view of ourselves
> in that world.
>
> In the West, we might benefit from joining a 12-Step programme similar to
> those offered by the AA or NA organisations.  However, there is potential
> for ex-Thamkrabokers to establish their own Buddhist-based recovery groups

> in their own towns and cities.  Some advice for doing this can be found athttp://www.buddhistrecovery.com/doc_brn_group_guidance.htm(If appropriate,

> the 'Thamkrabok Chanting for Laypeople' is available as a booklet and on
> audio CD, to perhaps use at the beginning or end of any such recovery group
> meeting).
>
> It is difficult and perhaps unwise to quote 'Success Rates' not only because
> these are so hard to define but also because these set up an expectation in
> advance of treatment.  Thamkrabok does not publish any figures for so called
> 'success rates' and anything heard on the monastery must be treated as
> purely anecdotal.  Any person or organisation claiming 60, 70 or even 80
> percent success rates are effectively selling a wonder cure...  I
> deliberately say selling because there is normally a fee involved.
> Thamkrabok works for the people it works for...
>
> Just to end this message, I would like to express my own sadness at the
> recent death of Phra Hans.  Last week I was fortunate enough to be able to
> thank him for all of the help and support he had given me over the last
> seven years.  Thamkrabok has lost an inspirational teacher and I have lost a

> friend and mentor.  All things are temporary, transient and impermanent.

> including us.
>
> May all Beings be free of addictions.
> May all Beings be free of suffering.
> May all Beings be happy.
>
> Best wishes to all.
>
> With Metta,
>
> Vince
> __________________________________
> 277
> "All conditioned things
> are impermanent";
> when we see this with insight
> we will tire of this life of suffering.
> This is the Way to purification.
> __________________________________
> A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATIONhttp://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content

> <http://aruno.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemid=80>
> &task=view&id=241&Itemid=80

[John Cox]

I think maybe Rat boy has personal issues with Thamkrabok, his first email wasn't negative but he seemed to react to something in his second posting. I feel there's more going on here.

I also feel that when you step up to piblically help other addict then you unfortunatly open your self up to all soft of opinions, I image that this makes the task all the more challenging.

I'll be honest, just coping with my own recovery is challenge enough, it must be even harder when you have others to think of to.

It seems like a tight rope walk, but Definityly a worthy one.

Coxy


Sent from my iPod

[garro]

I agree with everything that you say here Vince. Promising too much
for the temple might be as bad as doing the opposite. In my case I did
find the temple when I was ready.

I occasionally get e-mails from suffering addicts because of my book.
I always recommend the temple, but point out that it does not work for
everyone and the importance of being ready. I also point out that
other people manage to get clean or sober without travelling to the
other side of the world. I do think that promoting the temple is a
noble thing to do, but it is hard to know where to draw the line.

> Rai - by Johan and Hans - is one possible option ( seehttp://groups.google.com/group/Friends-of-Thamkrabok-Monastery/browse...).

>
> I am fortunate to be able to visit Thamkrabok at least once a year to renew
> my Sajja and take part in some ‘medicine meditation’ etc.  I understand that
> not everyone has the same resources available to them so I have organised a
> 1-week retreat for ex-Thamkrabokers at The Barn in Devon, England.  In the
> longer-term I would like to work towards establishing a Buddhist (in part
> Thamkrabok) based lay-community rehabilitation centre somewhere in Europe...
> but that's just in thought at the moment, not a fact.
>
> When we stop taking our drug(s) of choice we most often then find that we
> are morally lacking, or morally bankrupt, as it were.  We are without any
> real or 'whole' sense of integrity or morality.  In most instances we cannot
> even see this, just as we couldn't see our original addiction(s).  We have
> spent too many years lying, cheating, stealing, abusing and even
> prostituting ourselves; so when we get clean we simply do not know how to
> behave properly.  The Thamkrabok Sajja is not simply a vow to stop taking
> intoxicating substances; it is much more than this.  It is a commitment to
> starting a new life, embracing truth, loyalty, purity and honesty.
> Effectively, we must change our view of the world, and our view of ourselves
> in that world.
>
> In the West, we might benefit from joining a 12-Step programme similar to
> those offered by the AA or NA organisations.  However, there is potential
> for ex-Thamkrabokers to establish their own Buddhist-based recovery groups

> in their own towns and cities.  Some advice for doing this can be found athttp://www.buddhistrecovery.com/doc_brn_group_guidance.htm(If appropriate,

> A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATIONhttp://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemi...