The Way International. Apologetics Bible message
Bible John
The Way International
This cult is unlike many others in that its theology closely resembles
that of Apostolic/OneNess Pentecostalism. To learn more of this cult
please visit this website http://www.cerm.info and click on the OneNess
Pentecostalism article. Before we dive into the theological errors of
this cult, lets get an introduction and a little background of this cult.
National Website: http://www.teleiosministries.com/home.html
Founder: Victor Paul Wierwille, born 1917, and Deceased 1985. It is also
notable that Wierwille had purchased a doctorate from a diploma mill
called Pikes Peak Bible Seminary. Wierwille was also a conspiracy
theorist with a militia mentality.
Wierwille warned his followers about the Illuminati, a supposed world
cartel of powerful individuals secretly planning to overthrow the US
government. It has been reported that in response Wierwille constructed
survival training camps and military strongholds. It has also been
reported that students attending advanced Way International classes were
required to learn how to shoot a gun.
Headquarters: Just outside of Knoxville in Ohio
Membership: Over one hundred thousand all over the world
Origins: According to Wierwille, in 1942 God spoke to him and told him
that he would interpret the bible in a new way and that he would teach
it according to the principles of the early church. However it was not
until 1957 that Wierwille resigned his pastorate in the United Church of
Christ. Wirwille went on to develop a radio program and began to preach
his new doctrines. No significant growth occurred within this cult until
the Jesus movement of the 1960's. I was not alive at the time, so cannot
speak from experience. Sadly many began to follow, and many will sadly
join him in hell, unless they are reached by the gospel of Jesus Christ,
and that will not happen, until they realize the devils stronghold on
the lies taught in this cult.
Publications: Jesus Christ is not God, by Wierwille.
Comments: Before we dive into the doctrine the reader must learn a few
facts about this cult.
* It has been reported that this cult practices mind control to control
its members. For example leadership within the Way International tells
followers whom to date, whom to marry, when to separate ort divorce, how
to spend their time and money, how to discipline their children, when to
quit a job, etc..
* The Way International condemns everyone outside their organization as
being demon possessed. In my experience one individual that I know whom
is a member of this cult has on many occasions claimed that Satan
controls me, and has stated that He is my father. He has said as much
about nearly every fundamentalist Christian that has confronted this
man's hellfire teachings. But its also shocking that this man has said
as much about other Christian counterfeit cult members who have
confronted this mans doctrines.
* Profanity and name-calling are typical in the language of The Way
followers and leaders. This personally is not surprising as a man named
Robert Sowle from certain Usenet newsgroups where I frequent has on many
occasions called me very defaming names. For example he has (without any
factual evidence) at times claimed that I like to strip naked and crap
in a diaper in front of college girls. This man has a very sick head,
which he probably learned from his leaders. It has been reported that on
May 4th, 1997 the then Way President Martindale set an example in a
brief 15-minute talk to his followers where he cussed out a storm.
Looking this example its no wonder that Robert Sowle behaves the way he
does.
Doctrines:
The way denies many of the essential Christian historic doctrines. I
personally know of a member from this cult, whom posts in one of the
Newsgroups that I frequent. His theology is so close to that of OneNess
Pentecostalism, I at first mistaked him as being OneNess. Personally it
seemed strange when a OneNess pastor that also frequents these
Newsgroups condemned this individual, but I thought nothing of it.
Below are some of the historic essential Christian doctrines that this
cult denies.
Doctrine #1
The Doctrine of the trinity
The Way International denies the Trinity of God. Below are some of many
verses that prove that God is a trinity
1 John 5:7-8 (NKJV) 7For there are three that bear witness _ in heaven:
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.8And
there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and
the blood; and these three agree as one.
Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV) 18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All
authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19Go _ therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy
Spirit,20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;
and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." _ Amen.
Genesis 1:26 (NKJV) 26Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the
sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over _ all the
earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
2Cor. 13:14 ś May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
1 Peter 1:2 (NKJV) 2elect according to the foreknowledge of God the
Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of
the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Galatians 4:6 (NKJV) 6And because you are sons, God has sent forth the
Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"
John 14:16 (NKJV) 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you
another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-
Doctrine #2
The Deity of Jesus Christ
This cult believes that Jesus Christ has no preincarnata existence
except in the mind of God the father. They believe that Jesus is the son
of God but is not God himself. Wierville says then following in his book
"Jesus Christ is, God himself, but merely the Son of God. They are not
co-eternal, without beginning or end, and co-equal. Jesus Christ was
not literally with God in the beginning; neither does he have all the
assessts of God" (Jesus Christ is not God, p.5).
However an examination of scripture will show that Jesus is God and was
with God the father. Wierville has not read the bible.
John 1:1-2 (NKJV) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:14 (NKJV) 14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we
beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full
of grace and truth.
John 8:58 (KJV) 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.
John 14:9 (NKJV) 9Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and
yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the
Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Jesus in the above verses is proven to be With God in the beginning of
time, and equal in essence with God himself. Go ahead and check it out
in the Greek and you will see that the New King James Version is
completely accurate in the above verses.
Doctrine #3
The Personhood of the Holy Spirit
The founder of this cult Paul Wierville denied the deity and personhood
of the Holy Spirit. He argued that in some texts the term should be
translated capitalized and in other verses with all small letters. He
believed that Holy Spirit is another name for God the father. Like God
the father has multiple names. For example Robert goes by the nickname
Bob. When his real name is Robert. The way International denies that the
Holy Spirit comes into a man when he is saved, because they deny that
the Holy Spirit is a person. They believe He is a power or a force.
Kinda like the force in the Star Wars films.
Doctrine #4
Salvation by Grace through Faith
Wierwille separated faith from believing. In his view salvation does not
involve repentance of sins. But only doing "the will of God" (the Bible
Tells Me So, p. 18; Jesus Christ is not God, pp. 238-257). The Way also
teaches that those that are saved cannot sin in his spirit. His body
and soul can sin, but not his spirit-this can lead to sinful practices
that are said to not affect the spirit of a person.
Some bible verses that indicate salvation by grace
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV) 8For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,9not of works, lest
anyone should boast.
Romans 3:21-25 (NKJV) 21But now the righteousness of God apart from the
law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all _
and on all who believe. For there is no difference;23for all have sinned
and fall short of the glory of God,24being justified freely by His grace
through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25whom God set forth as a
propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His
righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins
that were previously committed,
The way has many other false teachings like Soul Sleep, and they also
believe that everyone born again will be able to speak in tongues. This
seems contrary to what the bible teaches on the subject in 1 Cor 12-13.
* The Way Claims that every true believer should speak in tongues.
[Wierwille taught "tongues" by having his followers relax and inhale
"holy Spirit" through "heavy breathing" which he claimed was a more
accurate translation of "mighty rushing wind" in Acts 2:2 (Receiving the
Holy Spirit Today, pp. 61-62).]
Well I hope that this bible message will be of some help to you, as your
discern the teachings of this cult.
Perhaps you know of a friend that is in this cult. If this is you, then
please send his or her name to me, and I will add him or her to my
prayer list, so he or she can receive prayer.
There is obviously much more that can be said of this cult, and I hope
that this brief bible message on the way will entice you to do some
research.
--
Permissions: You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and
distribute this material in any format provided that you do not alter
the wording in anyway other than to correct minor spelling and grammar
errors. For web posting, a link to this document on our website is
preferred. And exceptions to the above must be explicitly approved by
Church Education Resource Ministries.
Please include the following statement on any distributed copy: By John
Wolf Church Education Resource Ministries. Website www.cerm.info.
Email: jo...@cerm.info.
--
--
Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://www.cerm.info
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
Bible Bob
wrote:
That describes fundamentalists to a "T"
>
>* The Way International condemns everyone outside their organization as
>being demon possessed. In my experience one individual that I know whom
>is a member of this cult has on many occasions claimed that Satan
>controls me, and has stated that He is my father. He has said as much
>about nearly every fundamentalist Christian that has confronted this
>man's hellfire teachings. But its also shocking that this man has said
>as much about other Christian counterfeit cult members who have
>confronted this mans doctrines.
You are not telling the truth. Name the individual. Then prove that
you know him. Then prove that he said what you say he said.
>
>* Profanity and name-calling are typical in the language of The Way
>followers and leaders. This personally is not surprising as a man named
>Robert Sowle from certain Usenet newsgroups where I frequent has on many
>occasions called me very defaming names. For example he has (without any
>factual evidence) at times claimed that I like to strip naked and crap
>in a diaper in front of college girls. This man has a very sick head,
>which he probably learned from his leaders. It has been reported that on
>May 4th, 1997 the then Way President Martindale set an example in a
>brief 15-minute talk to his followers where he cussed out a storm.
>Looking this example its no wonder that Robert Sowle behaves the way he
>does.
LOL! So now you are telling us that you "strip naked." You didn't
say that in the quotes that I quoted from "your" posts: Here is what
I quoted from your posts:
On January 2, 2006 you wroite the following and posted it to this
group:
Some of those that hate me have in their stalking and harassment
efforts
stooped in maturity to that of a Junior Higher and are spreading
rumors
that I wear diapers, act like a baby or something crazy like this.
This rumor probably came from this page.
http://johnw.freeshell.org/graphics/mikespage.jpg
If you look at these images and compare them to that of my wesbite you
will see that these images are not of me.
For your information I am not a sick freak and I do not have a fetish!
John
It proved to be another of your lies. Just Mark responded with the
following:
Oh? Then what about this:
From: "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: Aspergers johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
It was not the doctor whop diagnoses me with Asbergers, and states
that the "diaper business" is a part of the condition. I am not an
infantilist nor do I have a fetish.
John
From: "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:22 am
Subject: diaper issues johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
I know some of you wear diapers for incontence reasons, and others for
psychological reasons. But those that have a fetish I have strived to
remove.
Lets get a discussion going on our diaper issues.
John
From: John <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [disabilitycollaboration] diaper issues johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
I am glad you are honest. I feel sorry for your situation.
Mine is quite different. To me they have been kind of an
attachment since the age of 5. They bring me comfort,etc..
I hate it, but cant do much about it. I have seen many
psychologists, and taken meds but nothing works, except when I
seem to get taken care of. However finding those to help in
these areas is very hard, but it has been possible. Some sort
of regression therapy I call it. But it has been successful in
calming the public outbursts.
It still amazes me that no matter how many times I tell others
that sit down counseling which I've tried many times and meds do
not work, they still refuse to believe me. I gave up on seeing
a counselor. Not worth the effort.
John
From: John <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: [disabilitycollaboration] diaper issues johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
--- Keith Thompson <jayjaycub@...> wrote:
>
> At age 5 you were hardly even out of diapers. Sounds like
> you've pretty much had a lifelong emotional need.
Yes very true
I did not
> like the diapers when I first started wearing them, but I too
> have an attachment for them now. They are a comfort, and I
> do not feel sorry for my situation. It appears from my
> conversations with other diaper users that this is pretty
> common.
Mine too
When you were younger, did you wet on purpose to get
> put into diapers, or was there a real need that caused you to
> rely on them for sanitary reasons?
I cant remember. But in adult life I have wet to show them off
to gals. Some think they are funny on me, and others have cared
for me.
I have spoken with many
> people who wore diapers for one reason or another in childhood
> and it seems like attaching to them emotionally is very
> common.
>
> You have approached your diaper attachment from a
> psychological standpoint. If you are at all familiar with the
> psychiatric diagnostic manual, DSM IV, then you will know
> that many of the psychiatric diagnosis are only considered
> pathological if they cause the patient significant emotional
> distress. Perhaps, given your unsuccessful attempts to detach
> yourself from them, what you need to do is give up the
> distress - not the diapers!
> Keith
Pathological. Please give me more ifnormation on this. Thank
you
John
From: John <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:14 pm
Subject: Re: [disabilitycollaboration] diaper issues johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
I can hold a job and a life, however the diaper issues do pop up
from time to time.
John
From: John <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:13 pm
Subject: Re: [disabilitycollaboration] diaper issues johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
No in my personnel life they cause issues. Unless showing them
t random girls is not a problem.
--- Keith Thompson <jayjaycub@...> wrote:
From: John <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:35 am
Subject: Re: [disabilitycollaboration] diaper issues johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
Yes I have. The last one I even showed her the diapers. But
she was the one to initiate or hint that I was in them.
When I dressed as a open baby in a diaper back in 2000 (yes
thank goodness before the days of cell phone cameras and digital
cameras) I had some positive reactions from nice looking gals,
and no reaction from many others. Some people did not even care
to see a 23 yr old walking around in diapers! Personally in
Europe and South America people can do these things without
consequence.
John
From: "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:44 pm
Subject: Companionship services johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
If anyone here suffers with Infantilism or another type of
pathological or disorder what helps calm your issues? For me it has
been Companionship. Problem is its tough to find this, since I do not
have a Developmental disability.
Does anyone have friends in Northern California?
From: "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:49 pm
Subject: Welcome babygirlbear@...! johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
I welcome you to this board. Remember this is not a group for those
with a fetish. Thiis a group for those with conditions.
John
From: John <johnw_94020@...>
Date: Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:14 am
Subject: Re: [disabilitycollaboration] Re: [John] Welcome
babygirlbear@...! johnw_94020
Offline
Send Email
Hi Anna and thanks for writing.
I agree that those who like to be babied by others for a sexual
drive is sick.
In my case they are probably more of a transitional object, or
things that I wear to cope with anxiety. By definition a fetish
could be something other than sexual, but most always assume
sexual gratification when they hear the word fetish.
In my case I have been treated by someone that was far far older
than myself,was married and by western standards was not
attractive. In the Tongan culture (correct me if I am wrong)
obesity is considered a attractive feature of a woman. She
certainly had no problems taking care of me, and I receiving her
services. I only wish that more people in western cultures were
as considerate and understanding.
I have revealed far too many private details, but its okay as I
feel comfortable here.
John
You are a liar John. You wear diapers in front of girls and my
question over and over again is how old are those girls. Because if
you are molesting children; you need to be jailed before you are
killed by an angry parent.
Prove the charge that I sued profanity against you. Who was it that
posted. Speaking of vulgar language who was it that said "You piece
of shit Bible bob". It was you, yesterday. You seem to have a thing
about "feces." People are feces and you like to wear diapers and
urinate deficate in them in front of girls. Are you into watching
little girls "poo poo?" How big is you porn collection? You better
get rid of it before Steve's FBI agents find child porn and put you
away.
>
>Doctrines:
>The way denies many of the essential Christian historic doctrines. I
>personally know of a member from this cult, whom posts in one of the
>Newsgroups that I frequent. His theology is so close to that of OneNess
>Pentecostalism, I at first mistaked him as being OneNess. Personally it
>seemed strange when a OneNess pastor that also frequents these
>Newsgroups condemned this individual, but I thought nothing of it.
More lies. Talk about fallcies of logic. You don't know the person.
You don't know what thebWay International teaches. You don't know
that Oneness Pentecostal teaches and you don't know that the person
you are lieing about is involved in the Way International. He is not,
and he is not Oneness and never has been. You are full of lies today,
deceiver John Wold in sheep's clothing the messenger of Satan sent to
steal, kill, and destroy.
>
>Below are some of the historic essential Christian doctrines that this
>cult denies.
>
>Doctrine #1
>The Doctrine of the trinity
>
>The Way International denies the Trinity of God. Below are some of many
>verses that prove that God is a trinity
>1 John 5:7-8 (NKJV) 7For there are three that bear witness _ in heaven:
>the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.8And
>there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and
>the blood; and these three agree as one.
That verse does not prove the trinity and you know it. Another lie to
your account.
>Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV) 18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All
>authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
>19Go _ therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them
>in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy
>Spirit,20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;
>and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." _ Amen.
That verse disproves the trinity. Learn how to read. Another lie on
your part. Heck, you are making the Way International sound good!
>
>Genesis 1:26 (NKJV) 26Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image,
>according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the
>sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over _ all the
>earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Does not say anything about a trinity and does not say that Jesus was
present. Another lie because the passage has been explained to you on
several occassions.
>
>2Cor. 13:14 ś May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
>God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Duh! Do you see the three "ands" connecting things strictly
coordinate. Three separate things. No trinity there.
>
>1 Peter 1:2 (NKJV) 2elect according to the foreknowledge of God the
>Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of
>the blood of Jesus Christ:
>Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1+1+1 = 3
>
>Galatians 4:6 (NKJV) 6And because you are sons, God has sent forth the
>Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"
No trinity
>
>John 14:16 (NKJV) 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you
>another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-
No trinity
>
>Doctrine #2
>The Deity of Jesus Christ
>
>This cult believes that Jesus Christ has no preincarnata existence
>except in the mind of God the father. They believe that Jesus is the son
>of God but is not God himself. Wierville says then following in his book
>"Jesus Christ is, God himself, but merely the Son of God. They are not
>co-eternal, without beginning or end, and co-equal. Jesus Christ was
>not literally with God in the beginning; neither does he have all the
>assessts of God" (Jesus Christ is not God, p.5).
Do you have the book? Have you read what he said in context? He is
right and maybe you could learn something from him. So far you have
made him look a lot smarter than you.
>
>However an examination of scripture will show that Jesus is God and was
>with God the father. Wierville has not read the bible.
>
>John 1:1-2 (NKJV) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
>God, and the Word was God.
>2He was in the beginning with God.
Jesus does come till verse 14. Proves only the existence of Christ in
God's foreknowledge.
>
>John 1:14 (NKJV) 14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we
>beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full
>of grace and truth.
Same thing. The veses are in chronological order - Jesus doesn't come
until after John. Learn how to read.
>
>John 8:58 (KJV) 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
>Before Abraham was, I am.
Doesn't match what Exodus 2:13 says. No prize.
>
>John 14:9 (NKJV) 9Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and
>yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the
>Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
How? Jesus revealed the nature of God.
>
>Jesus in the above verses is proven to be With God in the beginning of
>time, and equal in essence with God himself. Go ahead and check it out
>in the Greek and you will see that the New King James Version is
>completely accurate in the above verses.
No. You have proven nothing other than that Wierwille is righter than
you.
>
>Doctrine #3
>The Personhood of the Holy Spirit
>
>The founder of this cult Paul Wierville denied the deity and personhood
>of the Holy Spirit. He argued that in some texts the term should be
>translated capitalized and in other verses with all small letters. He
>believed that Holy Spirit is another name for God the father. Like God
>the father has multiple names. For example Robert goes by the nickname
>Bob. When his real name is Robert. The way International denies that the
>Holy Spirit comes into a man when he is saved, because they deny that
>the Holy Spirit is a person. They believe He is a power or a force.
>Kinda like the force in the Star Wars films.
That is another lie. He is right about the capitalization. They say
that the holy spirit comes into a person; just the opposite of what
you just said. The Holy Spirit and the holy spirit are not persons;
they are spirit. Hmm. There is a similarity; the force be with you -
shall be in you. But in Star wars the force is "with" while in Christ
it is "in". Spirit does refer to an invisible force, by the way.
>
>Doctrine #4
>Salvation by Grace through Faith
>
>Wierwille separated faith from believing. In his view salvation does not
>involve repentance of sins. But only doing "the will of God" (the Bible
>Tells Me So, p. 18; Jesus Christ is not God, pp. 238-257). The Way also
>teaches that those that are saved cannot sin in his spirit. His body
>and soul can sin, but not his spirit-this can lead to sinful practices
>that are said to not affect the spirit of a person.
Well, if that is what he said; then what he said is true. Thee is a
difference between the noun faith and the verb believe. Wake up! The
spirit is incorruptible, so all sin occurs in the body and soul. You
are making a fool of yourself. You are proving him right and you
wrong.
>
>Some bible verses that indicate salvation by grace
He says salvatioj is by grace in the book I am reading and I told you
that but you spread the lie anyway. You are a deceiver and a John
Wolf in sheeps clothing who works for Satan the Accuser; lil false
accuser.
>
>Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV) 8For by grace you have been saved through faith,
>and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,9not of works, lest
>anyone should boast.
>
>Romans 3:21-25 (NKJV) 21But now the righteousness of God apart from the
>law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
>22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all _
>and on all who believe. For there is no difference;23for all have sinned
>and fall short of the glory of God,24being justified freely by His grace
>through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25whom God set forth as a
>propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His
>righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins
>that were previously committed,
>
>The way has many other false teachings like Soul Sleep, and they also
>believe that everyone born again will be able to speak in tongues. This
>seems contrary to what the bible teaches on the subject in 1 Cor 12-13.
Wait a minute. "Seems contrary"? So you admit you are running your
mouth about what you do know nothing about.
>
>* The Way Claims that every true believer should speak in tongues.
>[Wierwille taught "tongues" by having his followers relax and inhale
>"holy Spirit" through "heavy breathing" which he claimed was a more
>accurate translation of "mighty rushing wind" in Acts 2:2 (Receiving the
>Holy Spirit Today, pp. 61-62).]
Do you have that book? Have you read in context? I am going to order
those books just to see how big your lies are.
>
>Well I hope that this bible message will be of some help to you, as your
>discern the teachings of this cult.
It was a bunch of lies and ignorance that proved you to be not too
smart. You proved him right and you wrong. That was very unsmart.
I suspect that he was wrong about a couple of things and I suspect
that there is something fishy about the group; but I am studying the
actual words to find out where the doctrinal errors are.
>
>Perhaps you know of a friend that is in this cult. If this is you, then
>please send his or her name to me, and I will add him or her to my
>prayer list, so he or she can receive prayer.
You are sick. Send you someone's name so that you can put them on
your hate list? That would be working for your master who is the
devil.
>
>There is obviously much more that can be said of this cult, and I hope
>that this brief bible message on the way will entice you to do some
>research.
I'm sure you could say more lies. How about regrouping and doing some
honest research that provide facts.
>--
>Permissions: You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and
>distribute this material in any format provided that you do not alter
>the wording in anyway other than to correct minor spelling and grammar
>errors. For web posting, a link to this document on our website is
>preferred. And exceptions to the above must be explicitly approved by
>Church Education Resource Ministries.
>
>Please include the following statement on any distributed copy: By John
>Wolf Church Education Resource Ministries. Website www.cerm.info.
>Email: jo...@cerm.info.
Come on John. It only took me a few rushed minutes to point out some
of your foolishness. You are making yourself look like a fool. If
you think that the Way International is a cult, do some real research.
Compare what actually say in their books and on their web site to what
the word of God says.
I have already spoken face to face with one couple who loaned me one
of his books. I have eyewitness testimony from two people about stuff
that I am not ready to reveal yet; until after I read the book and do
some more research. I may see them Sunday and if I do, I will ask
them about what you said.
>--
.....
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Bible John
Luke 9:26-If anyone is ashamed of me and | CERM
http://www.cerm.info
my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed | Church Education Resource
Ministry
of him when he comes in his glory and in | Founder and Director
the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
"Bible Bob" <bibl...@saintly.com> wrote in message
news:gshe72lretqdk9gv1...@4ax.com...
>>
> I have already spoken face to face with one couple who loaned me one
> of his books. I have eyewitness testimony from two people about stuff
> that I am not ready to reveal yet; until after I read the book and do
> some more research. I may see them Sunday and if I do, I will ask
> them about what you said.
Well by know Bob you could ask them about the following.
1. The May 4th, 1997 event where the then Way President Martindale set an
example in a brief 15-minute talk to his followers where he cussed out a
storm.
I wish I could get that message on audio tape or CD and post the clips on my
website for you to hear.
2. The Way Claims that every true believer should speak in tongues.
[Wierwille taught "tongues" by having his followers relax and inhale "holy
Spirit" through "heavy breathing" which he claimed was a more accurate
translation of "mighty rushing wind" in Acts 2:2 (Receiving the Holy Spirit
Today, pp. 61-62).]
Let me know.
Also make a copy or two from this book of yours proving what I say to be
incorrect and fax it to me. I posted the number yesterday.
John
>
>
>>--
>
>
> .....
> BB
> http://www.biblebob.net
>
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
Bible John
3) Speaking in Tongues (SIT): Speaking in tongues or (SIT), is virtually
equated with confirming one's salvation. Wierwille took a very strained and
mechanical approach to tongues. "The holy spirit field - that's the field
God raised me up for...And there's no one I can't lead into speaking in
tongues if they are Christian and want to do it" (The Way: Living in Love,
p. 201). Wierwille taught "tongues" by having his followers relax, inhale
"holy spirit" through "heavy breathing" which he claimed was a more accurate
transltion of "mighty rushing wind" in Acts 2:2 (Receiving the Holy Spirit
Today, pp. 61-62).
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
Bible Bob
<johnw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>--
>Luke 9:26-If anyone is ashamed of me and | CERM
>http://www.cerm.info
>my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed | Church Education Resource
>Ministry
>of him when he comes in his glory and in | Founder and Director
>the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
>"Bible Bob" <bibl...@saintly.com> wrote in message
>news:gshe72lretqdk9gv1...@4ax.com...
>>>
>> I have already spoken face to face with one couple who loaned me one
>> of his books. I have eyewitness testimony from two people about stuff
>> that I am not ready to reveal yet; until after I read the book and do
>> some more research. I may see them Sunday and if I do, I will ask
>> them about what you said.
>
>Well by know Bob you could ask them about the following.
>
>1. The May 4th, 1997 event where the then Way President Martindale set an
>example in a brief 15-minute talk to his followers where he cussed out a
>storm.
What difference would it make? Martindale is not the president. A
woman is (Oh my! A woman in charge of a church - no wonder you hate
them).. The names of the big shots are listed on the entry page to
their web site.
Here is a link that will have you drooling. One of the former Way
International people I know is a guy named John Schoenheit who is from
here in Charlotte but now works for a ministry up in Indiana. John
introduced me to John Lynn years ago. John Lynn is the guy that wrote
the "expose" on the Way International. He was a fomer big shot in the
Way. Anyway, he gave me a book called "Don't Blame God" which is real
good. These guys are very intelligent and very honorable men. I
would accept as truth whatever the two of them agree on about the Way
International. Here is John Lynn's letter:
http://www.christianeducational.org/monthlyletters/misc/index.htm
Here is the John Schoenheit's letter on adultry.
http://www.christianeducational.org/monthlyletters/misc/Adultery.htm
From what I read, it appears that the Way International was a
hyperreligious organization that behaved as most fundamentalist
organizations do.
>
>I wish I could get that message on audio tape or CD and post the clips on my
>website for you to hear.
Why? What is the profit? Don't you see how petty your desire is?
You desire information to hurt people. That is sick. He is not the
president and his name is not on the big shot list. Maybe he quit or
got fired. What the guy did took place in 1997. This is 2006. Are
you going to hold the whole denomination accountable for one man's
sin? What is wrong with you? By the way; Martindale was a baptist,
It says so on the web page you took the quote from below. Here is the
link: http://www.watchman.org/profile/waypro.htm
>
>2. The Way Claims that every true believer should speak in tongues.
>[Wierwille taught "tongues" by having his followers relax and inhale "holy
>Spirit" through "heavy breathing" which he claimed was a more accurate
>translation of "mighty rushing wind" in Acts 2:2 (Receiving the Holy Spirit
>Today, pp. 61-62).]
I find that hard to believe. "every true believer" sounds like a
fundy speaking. James K Walker, the guy who wrote what you are
quoting doesn't appear to know too much Bible. He does not
substanitiate anything in sufficient detail so that a reader can check
out what he says. He says it and that settles it.
Acts 2:2 says that they heard a "sound". What they heard was "as" a
rushing mighty wind. The sound sounded like a rushing mighty wind.
The twelve (not 120) were in the temple (not the upper room)
>
>Let me know.
>
>Also make a copy or two from this book of yours proving what I say to be
>incorrect and fax it to me. I posted the number yesterday.
I have company tonight and don't have time to read the book. But when
I do finish it, I will let you know.
>
>
>
>John
.....
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Bible Bob
<johnw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>http://www.watchman.org/profile/waypro.htm
>
>3) Speaking in Tongues (SIT): Speaking in tongues or (SIT), is virtually
>equated with confirming one's salvation. Wierwille took a very strained and
>mechanical approach to tongues. "The holy spirit field - that's the field
>God raised me up for...And there's no one I can't lead into speaking in
>tongues if they are Christian and want to do it" (The Way: Living in Love,
>p. 201). Wierwille taught "tongues" by having his followers relax, inhale
>"holy spirit" through "heavy breathing" which he claimed was a more accurate
>transltion of "mighty rushing wind" in Acts 2:2 (Receiving the Holy Spirit
>Today, pp. 61-62).
>
>
John,
He is dead.
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
>----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
>----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
.....
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Bible Bob
<johnw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I notice that you did not respond to any of my responses to your
commentary. Why?
If you are an authority and can write an apologetics paper on a
subject; shouldn't you be able to defend what you wrote?
.....
BB
http://www.biblebob.net