Voila ce que je viens de trouver sur Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenogne_massacre
> ARTE vient de diffuser une �mission consacr�e � la SGM " The war " .
> Dans un �pisode , un militaire Etazunien avoue ( de nos jours , date
> du tournage ) que durant la contre-offensive des Ardennes un " jeune
> officier sorti de West Point " lui a ordonn� � lui et � ses camarades
> de fusiller 25 prisonniers Allemands .Ils ont refus� .
J'admire vraiment l'indignation � g�om�trie variable de ARTE,
Si, si...
En ce qui concerne la vengeance des GIs sur les Waffen-SS
prisonniers.
Une tr�s grande publicit� sera faite autour de ce massacre et certaines
unit�s am�ricaines iront jusqu'� venger ce crime. Le 21 d�cembre 1944,
le quartier g�n�ral du 328�me R�giment de la 26�me Division
d'infanterie US (3�me Corps US de Patton), au sud du saillant,
allemand, transmettra ses ordres en vue d'une attaque projet�e
pour le lendemain: "No SS troops or paratroopers will be taken
prisoner but will be shot on sight."
"Aucun SS ou parachutiste allemand ne sera fait prisonnier".
Cet ordre sera scrupuleusement respect� le 1er janvier 1944
� Chenogne, dans la r�gion de Bastogne. Une soixantaine de
prisonniers de la 12�me Division panzer-SS Hitlerj�gend sont
ex�cut�s par la Companie B du 21�me Bataillon d'infanterie blind�e
(11�me Division blind�e). C'est le "Massacre de Chenogne".
http://jacqueline-devereaux.blogspot.com/2009/11/17-19-decembre-1944-bataille-des.html
--
Jacqueline "Jade" Devereaux - http://jacqueline-devereaux.blogspot.com/
antisp...@skynet.be [remplacez antispam.cool par jacquie.devereaux]
Victor: "Tsahal correctionne grave, disperse menu, et ventile loin!"
Broc_Ex_Co: "Ah ces Am�ricains, m�me quand ils s'excusent,
ils nous font la le�on!"
> "Aucun SS ou parachutiste allemand ne sera fait prisonnier".
> Cet ordre sera scrupuleusement respect� le 1er janvier 1944
C'est 1er janvier 1945, bien s�r... D�sol�e.
Axiome de Nuremberg: Seuls les nazis commirent des crimes de guerre.
En vertu de ce principe, tu peux toujours te brosser pour traduire en
justice qui que ce soit pour quel pr�tendu "crime de guerre" que ce soit
durant la p�riode consid�r�e. On en voit toujours les s�quelles de nos
jours...
Dresde? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Katyn? Les DEF camps? Les viols
syt�matiques de la part des troupes russes? Bof, des broutilles....
Aftermath and trial
On January 13, 1945, American forces recaptured the site where the
killings occurred. The cold had preserved the scene well. The bodies
were recovered on January 14 and January 15, 1945. The memorial at
Baugnez bears the names of the murdered soldiers.
The size of the massacre, which apparently is the only one perpetrated
on such a scale against American troops in Europe during World War II,
caused an uproar at the time. However, the number of victims was quite
low, compared to other German atrocities.
In addition to the effect the event had on American combatants in
Europe, it seems that news of the massacre also greatly affected the
United States. This explains why the alleged culprits were deferred to
the Dachau Trials, which were held in May and June 1946, after the war.[24]
In what came to be called the "Malmedy massacre trial", which concerned
all of the war crimes attributed to Kampfgruppe Peiper for the battle of
the Bulge, the highest-ranking defendant was General Sepp Dietrich,
commander of the 6th SS Panzer Army, to which Peiper�s unit belonged.
Joachim Peiper and his principal subordinates were defendants.[24] The
Tribunal tried more than 70 persons and pronounced 43 death sentences
(none of which was carried out) and 22 life sentences. Eight other men
were sentenced to shorter prison sentences.[24]
After the verdict, the way in which the court had functioned was
disputed, first in Germany (by former Nazi officials who had regained
some power due to anti-Communist positions with the occupation forces),
then later in the United States (by Congressmen from heavily
German-American areas of the Midwest). The case was appealed to the
Supreme Court of the United States, which made no decision. The case
then came under the scrutiny of a sub-Committee of the Senate of the
United States.[23] A young Senator from Wisconsin, Joseph McCarthy, used
it as an opportunity to raise his political profile.[25] He stated that
the Court had not tried the defendants fairly.[2][26]
This drew attention to the trial and the judicial irregularities that
had occurred during the interrogations that preceded the trial. But,
before the United States Senate took an interest in this case, most of
the death sentences had been commuted, because of a revision of the
trial carried out by the U.S. Army.[24] The other life sentences were
commuted within the next few years. All the convicted war criminals were
released during the 1950s, the last one to leave prison being Peiper in
December 1956. There was a schism within the American Legion and
Veterans of Foreign Wars because World War II veterans who were members
protested McCarthy's defense of the convicted. The leadership consisting
of the earlier World War I veterans was reluctant to criticize him,
because of his anti-communist stance. Critics of the post-war trials of
Japanese military personnel have cited the release of these war
criminals as an example of the racism that characterized the difference
in treatment. Japanese military who were convicted of killing prisoners
as a matter of policy were executed per international law and custom.
The turmoil that followed the Malmedy trials and the early release of
the condemned is often used by some people as an example of biased
post-war justice applied at the discretion of the winner.[27]
A distinct lawsuit about the war crimes committed against civilians in
Stavelot was tried on July 6, 1948, in front of a Belgian military court
in Liege, Belgium. The defendants were 10 members of Kampfgruppe Peiper;
American troops had captured them on December 22, 1944, near the spot
where one of the massacres of civilians in Stavelot had occurred. One
man was discharged; the others were found guilty. Most of the convicts
were sentenced to 10 years' imprisonment; two officers were sentenced to
12 and 15 years.
En effet, Nuremberg fut bien un proc�s o� des criminels de guerre se
sont permis d'en juger d'autres.
C'est bien l� la preuve de mon axiome. Seuls les nazis pouvaient �tre
coupables des crimes invoqu�s (de guerre ou contre l'humanit�) car les
vainqueurs ne pouvaient pas �tre jug�s par les vaincus.
C'est ce qu'on appelle appliquer la loi (ou la justice) du plus fort.
De plus, lors de ce proc�s qui fera rire les g�n�rations futures, on
s'est permis de charger les nazis d'un crime qui n'existait pas
lorsqu'il fut commis..
C'est un pr�c�dent remarquable dans le droit international.
NB. Remarquables aussi certains articles du statut du tribunal (art 19 �
21 en particulier) qui seraient propres � invalider tout tribunal
moderne pour iniquit� .
Allons, pas de mauvaise foi SVP.
> C'est s�r que ce n'est pas ce que les Am�ricains ont fait de
> mieux .....
On a tous nos d�mons du pass� � combattre...
J'agis seulement en citoyen respectueux de l'ordre et du droit !
Un crime a été dénoncé à la télévision França..... Hummm Franco-
Allemande de manière publique .
En tant que citoyen modèle , je suis obligé de verifier que le ou les
auteurs de ce crime sont poursuivis et dans le cas contraire mon
devoir m'indique que le " droit d'ingérence " m'oblige à ce qu'il ou
ils soient poursuivis .
Vous venez de m"enlever mes dernières illusions qui sont la marque de
mon indécrotable naïveté .
Je croyais que nous vivions dans un " état de droit " , une
démocrass..... une " démocratie occidentale " .
M'aurait on menti ? M'aurait on trompé ?
qui que ce soit pour quel prétendu "crime de guerre" que ce soit
> durant la période considérée. On en voit toujours les séquelles de nos
> jours...
>
> Dresde? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Katyn? Les DEF camps? Les viols
> sytématiques de la part des troupes russes? Bof, des broutilles....
>
> Aftermath and trial
>
> On January 13, 1945, American forces recaptured the site where the
> killings occurred. The cold had preserved the scene well. The bodies
> were recovered on January 14 and January 15, 1945. The memorial at
> Baugnez bears the names of the murdered soldiers.
>
> The size of the massacre, which apparently is the only one perpetrated
> on such a scale against American troops in Europe during World War II,
> caused an uproar at the time. However, the number of victims was quite
> low, compared to other German atrocities.
>
> In addition to the effect the event had on American combatants in
> Europe, it seems that news of the massacre also greatly affected the
> United States. This explains why the alleged culprits were deferred to
> the Dachau Trials, which were held in May and June 1946, after the war.[24]
>
> In what came to be called the "Malmedy massacre trial", which concerned
> all of the war crimes attributed to Kampfgruppe Peiper for the battle of
> the Bulge, the highest-ranking defendant was General Sepp Dietrich,
> commander of the 6th SS Panzer Army, to which Peiper’s unit belonged.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
Et comme les troupes US ou sovi�tiques l'ont fait sans trop de g�ne?
Allons donc, � Nuremberg ces juges, qui �tait "irr�prochables" selon
vous, n'ont pas os� statu� pour innocenter les nazis du crime de guerre
de Katyn alors qu'ils savaient pertinemment que les russes �taient les
coupables.
Cela prouve bien leur total manque d'ind�pendance vis � vis de leurs
commanditaires: les pays vainqueurs.
Comme r�sultat remarquable, nous avons un acte d'accusation qui
incrimine les nazis et un jugement final qui �lude cette charge.
En conclusion, apr�s ce proc�s on ne sait toujours pas qui sont les
coupables, ce qui permit aux russes de nous bourrer le mou sur cette
affaire jusqu'� ce que Gorbachev admette finalement la responsabilit�
sovi�tique.
Ces juges ont aussi admis, sur la foi de preuves russes et, sans aucune
recherche sur les faits (pas de n�cessit� de v�rification des "preuves"
en accord avec les statuts du tribunal), que les nazis ont utilis� des
"chambres � vapeur" pour "exterminer des centaines de milliers de
juifs" � Treblinka * et et des "planchers �lectriques" � Belzec. Ils ont
aussi admis, toujours sans aucun examen des pr�tendus "armes du crime"
et sur la foi des "confessions" des nazis Hoess et Paul Waldmann**, le
"gazage" de 2.5 millions de juifs � Auschwitz et de 840 000 prisonniers
russes � Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen.
Bravo les juges!
Le film Katyn d'Andrzej Wajda montre bien ce que coutait aux polonais de
l'apr�s-guerre leur attitude "n�gationniste" � propos de ce crime. Leur
n�gationnisme consistant, bien s�r, � nier la "version officielle" de
la responsabilit� nazie de ce crime. Les russes avaient leur "loi
Gayssot" ad hoc pour exercer une r�pression efficace contre ces
r�calcitrants � la "v�rit� historique" en vigueur.
[*] <IMT Nuremberg>
CHAPTER XII - THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS
...
4.THE PROGRAM FOR THE COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF JEWRY
...
The official Polish Government Commissioner Report on the Investigation of
German crimes in Poland describes the concentration camp at Treblinka in
these terms:
"In March 1942, the Germans began to erect another camp, Treblinka B, in the
neighborhood of Treblinka A, intended to become a place of torment for Jews.
"The erection of this camp was closely connected with the German plans
aiming at a complete destruction of the Jewish population in Poland
which necessitated the creation of a machinery by means of which the
Polish Jews could be killed in large numbers. Late in April 1942, the
erection of the first three chambers was finished in which these general
massacres were to be performed by means of steam. Somewhat later the
erection of the real death building was finished, which contains ten
death chambers. It was opened for wholesale murders early in autumn 1942
* * *." (3311-PS)
The report of the commission describes graphically the procedure for
extermination within the camp:
"The average number of Jews dealt with at the camp in summer 1942 was
about two railway transports daily, but there were days of much higher
efficiency. From autumn 1942 this number was falling.
"After unloading in the siding all victims were assembled in one place
where men were separated from women and children. In the first days of
the existence of the camp the victims were made to believe that after a
short stay in the camp, necessary for bathing and disinfection, they
would be sent farther east, for work. Explanations of this sort were
given by SS men who assisted at the unloading of the transports and
further explanations could be read in notices stuck up on the walls of
the barracks. But later, when more transports had to be dealt with, the
Germans dropped all pretenses and only tried to accelerate the procedure.
"All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were collected
afterwards, whereupon all victims. women and children first, were driven
into
the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were
driven on by rifle butts, by whipping and kicking, often by Sauer
himself. Many slipped and fell, the next victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically closed and
steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over. The Jewish menial
workers had to remove the bodies from the platform and to bury them in
mass graves. By and by, as new transports arrived, the cemetery grew,
extending in eastern direction.
"From reports received, it may be assumed that several hundred thousands
of Jews have been exterminated in Treblinka." (3311-PS)
</IMT Nuremberg>
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/document/nca_vol1/chap_12.htm
[**] <IMT Nuremberg>
THE PRESIDENT: Were the other letters that you referred to also
addressed to SS units?
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Yes, Mr. President, they were also addressed to
the SS units. The first letter, addressed to the administration of the
Auschwitz Camp was from the firm Topf and Sons.
I shall now present to the Tribunal evidence of the fact that besides
the stationary crematoria, there existed also movable crematoria. The
Tribunal already knows about the movable gas chambers. These were
"murder vans." There were also created transportable crematoria. An SS
member, Paul Waldmann, testifies to their existence.
He was one of the participants in the crime perpetrated by the German
fascists when 840,000 Russian prisoners of war in Sachsenhausen were
annihilated at one time. The Exhibit Number USSR-52 (Document Number
USSR-52) on Auschwitz has already been presented to the Court. I quote
that particular extract from the testimony of an SS member, Waldmann,
which mentions the mass execution in Sachsenhausen:
"The war prisoners murdered in this way were cremated in four movable
crematoria, which were transported on car trailers."
</IMT Nuremberg>
Il ne manquait plus que �a..
K6
J'ai oubli� de faire remarquer que nier les "chambres � vapeur" de
Treblinka (qu'aucun historien dit s�rieux ne mentionne aujourd'hui) est
un crime qui tombe sous le coup de notre impayable loi Gayssot...
> [**] <IMT Nuremberg>
>
> THE PRESIDENT: Were the other letters that you referred to also
> addressed to SS units?
>
> MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Yes, Mr. President, they were also addressed to
> the SS units. The first letter, addressed to the administration of the
> Auschwitz Camp was from the firm Topf and Sons.
>
> I shall now present to the Tribunal evidence of the fact that besides
> the stationary crematoria, there existed also movable crematoria. The
> Tribunal already knows about the movable gas chambers. These were
> "murder vans." There were also created transportable crematoria. An SS
> member, Paul Waldmann, testifies to their existence.
> He was one of the participants in the crime perpetrated by the German
> fascists when 840,000 Russian prisoners of war in Sachsenhausen were
> annihilated at one time. The Exhibit Number USSR-52 (Document Number
> USSR-52) on Auschwitz has already been presented to the Court. I quote
> that particular extract from the testimony of an SS member, Waldmann,
> which mentions the mass execution in Sachsenhausen:
>
> "The war prisoners murdered in this way were cremated in four movable
> crematoria, which were transported on car trailers."
>
> </IMT Nuremberg>
>
> http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-19-46.asp
�a, c'est pas Gayssottable. Gazer 840 000 russes d'un coup c'est pas un
crime contre l'humanit� mais un crime de guerre. Donc, c'est pas
interdit de le nier bien que plus personne ne soutienne cette absurdit�
de nos jours.
Pourtant, c'est bien un SS, un d�nomm� Paul Waldmann qui l'a "confess�",
ce crime. Aux russes, faut dire...
Pour �a ils avaient la patte, les soviets; Arno Diere, un soldat de la
Wehrmacht leur avait �galement "confess�" avoir particip� au massacre de
Katyn avec ses potes...Efficaces, les staliniens.