Stop trying to justify Zizou
Jack
discover exactly what has been said? If it happened to my son, i 'd say that
his reaction is wrong, no matter what has been said.
The provocation is not fair, and materazzi probably provocated Zizou, but
this is a part of the game.
Are you sure that the frech players have never provocated nobody?
Zizou is a great champion, and a rich professional player. He is paid
enaough not to react in a violent way. There are a lot of young supporters
that inspire themeself to him. Zizou has been irresponsible.
J.
cru...@club-internet.fr
Jack wrote:
> If your son punched a friend how could you react?
You could stand by your son.
> Would you just try to
> discover exactly what has been said? If it happened to my son, i 'd say that
> his reaction is wrong, no matter what has been said.
No matter what ? I sure wouldn't.
> The provocation is not fair, and materazzi probably provocated Zizou, but
> this is a part of the game.
Retaliation is part of the provocation game, too. Neither of wich
should have anything to do with football, but the world isn't a perfect
place.
> Are you sure that the frech players have never provocated nobody?
>
I'm sure a lot of them have. I would say both Materazzi and Zidane got
what they deserved, one for behaving like a sneaky cheat and the other
for reacting like a foolish hothead.
> Zizou is a great champion, and a rich professional player. He is paid
> enaough not to react in a violent way. There are a lot of young supporters
> that inspire themeself to him. Zizou has been irresponsible.
>
Materazzi is a little champion who should pay more respect to his
opponents. I hope there's not a lot of young supporters who will take
inspiration from him and use provocation in order to get their
opponents receive their marching orders.
Jack
<cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
> I'm sure a lot of them have.
This is very "frenchly" romantic. ;-) But you know, the real thing is quiet
different.
I would say both Materazzi and Zidane got
> what they deserved, one for behaving like a sneaky cheat and the other
> for reacting like a foolish hothead.
What has matrix deserved?
> Materazzi is a little champion who should pay more respect to his
> opponents. I hope there's not a lot of young supporters who will take
> inspiration from him and use provocation in order to get their
> opponents receive their marching orders.
Matrix surely provocated, but there is still no evidence of what exactly has
been said. I have even to consider the chance that both Zizou and matrix
provocated,.
Is there still a chance that Zizou first provocated Matrix with injuries?
J.
cru...@club-internet.fr
Jack wrote:
> <cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > I'm sure a lot of them have.
>
> This is very "frenchly" romantic. ;-) But you know, the real thing is quiet
> different.
???
> I would say both Materazzi and Zidane got
> > what they deserved, one for behaving like a sneaky cheat and the other
> > for reacting like a foolish hothead.
>
> What has matrix deserved?
Matrix ? Is that Materazzi's nickname ? Well, he deserved a good punch,
which is basically what he got. Okay, it was a headbutt, but Zidane
always had a way with his head.
> > Materazzi is a little champion who should pay more respect to his
> > opponents. I hope there's not a lot of young supporters who will take
> > inspiration from him and use provocation in order to get their
> > opponents receive their marching orders.
>
> Matrix surely provocated, but there is still no evidence of what exactly has
> been said. I have even to consider the chance that both Zizou and matrix
> provocated,.
That's not what Materazzi is saying today in the Italian press, AFAIK.
We're still waiting for Zidane's side of the story, though.
> Is there still a chance that Zizou first provocated Matrix with injuries?
>
Nope, until you consider that looking at someone "with arrogance"
amounts to insult him. That wouldn't be unheard of, mind you ;
especially in some French suburbs, alas... but that is another story.
Jack
<cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
> Matrix ? Is that Materazzi's nickname ? Well, he deserved a good punch,
> which is basically what he got. Okay, it was a headbutt, but Zidane
> always had a way with his head.
This is unacceptable, violent reactions to any verbal provocations can't be
tolerated in a civil community.
> That's not what Materazzi is saying today in the Italian press, AFAIK.
Materazzi didn't talk about what has beens said.
> We're still waiting for Zidane's side of the story, though.
Zizou's version of the story is just one side of the story, not enough to
take senteces.
> Nope, until you consider that looking at someone "with arrogance"
I you watch that video, you will see that Zizou first talked to Materazzi.
J.
regis
> Jack wrote:
>>What has matrix deserved?
>
> Matrix ? Is that Materazzi's nickname ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HblsV-urHg&search=materazzi
cru...@club-internet.fr
Ah, okay. Now I understand why Materazzi was taken aback by Zidane's
reaction : the man obviously thinks a good punch is always given from
behind.
Jack
<cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
> Ah, okay. Now I understand why Materazzi was taken aback by Zidane's
> reaction : the man obviously thinks a good punch is always given from
> behind.
There's somebody else that thinks the same way, not in punching, but in
head-butting from behind, or walking on a laying opponent.
http://multimedia.repubblica.it/home/325601
J.
cru...@club-internet.fr
Jack wrote:
> <cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>
> > Matrix ? Is that Materazzi's nickname ? Well, he deserved a good punch,
> > which is basically what he got. Okay, it was a headbutt, but Zidane
> > always had a way with his head.
>
> This is unacceptable, violent reactions to any verbal provocations can't be
> tolerated in a civil community.
In a civil community, verbal provocations must be suffered with calm
dignity ?
> > That's not what Materazzi is saying today in the Italian press, AFAIK.
>
> Materazzi didn't talk about what has beens said.
>
Looks like he did :
>From Gazzetta dello Sport - 11 July 2006
Materazzi: «Era strafottente, l'ho insultato»
Materazzi: «Ma a Zidane non ho dato del terrorista». E sulla coscia
si farà tatuare la coppa del Mondo.
La Coppa adesso diventerà il suo prossimo tatuaggio. Prenderà tutta
la coscia sinistra, e a fianco ci sarà scritto, più o meno: e adesso
non mi potete più giudicare. Tutto il mondo ha visto Zidane piantargli
quella testata nello sterno. «Mi ha preparato la nicchia per metterci
dentro la Coppa», ha poi scherzato Materazzi con i compagni. Prima, in
campo, c'era stato poco da scherzare. Ma di sicuro ha cominciato
Zidane, racconta Matrix.
«Quello che è successo si è visto bene in tv. L'avevo tenuto per la
maglia solo per qualche secondo, si è girato, mi ha parlato con
scherno, guardandomi con strafottenza, dall'alto in basso: "Se proprio
vuoi la mia maglia, dopo te la do". Gli ho risposto con un insulto, è
vero». Contro sua sorella? «Un insulto di quelli che mi sento dire a
decine e che in campo ci scappano sempre. Di sicuro non gli ho dato del
terrorista: sono ignorante, non so neanche bene cosa significhi
terrorista islamico e la mia vera terrorista è lei (e con la testa
indica Anna, dieci mesi, che in aereo dorme nel sedile a fianco, ndr).
Tantomeno ho messo in mezzo la madre di Zidane: per me la mamma è
sacra, lo sapete». Già, la madre. Come dimenticare quello sguardo
verso il cielo per un grazie, «perché io a mia madre non ho mai
chiesto un favore per queste cose, però stavolta ho fatto
un'eccezione, anche se non è giusto scomodare Dio per il calcio. Dio
c'è, ma non gli chiederò mai più nulla del genere: mi basta per
sempre, lo giuro».
Jack
<cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio here
here we go:
Materazzi, 32, told Gazetta dello Sport: 'I held his shirt for a few
seconds only, then he turned to me and talked to me, jeering.
'He looked at me with a huge arrogance and said, `If you really want my
shirt I'll give it to you afterwards'. I replied with an
insult, that's true.'
Materazzi has not elaborated on what he did say, but one report
suggested he responded with: `I'd rather take the shirt off your
wife'.
He has denied, however, some of the more vile insults referring to his
wife or sister or calling him a terrorist.
Like you see, Zizou provocated first.
J.
Jack
"Jack" <wise.ja...@nospamlibero.it> ha scritto nel messaggio
Source: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373706&cc=5739
Jack
>In a civil community, verbal provocations must be suffered with calm
>dignity ?
I believe that you don't need suggestions on how to react to offences in a
civil way. Or not?
J.
cru...@club-internet.fr
Thanks for the english version, I confess I don't read italian.
Anyway...
> Like you see, Zizou provocated first.
>
Sorry, I fail to see a provocation from Zizou here. "He looked at me
with huge arrogance" ? Surely you're kidding. Materazzi himself
aknowledges having responded to a good line (following an usual
shirt-tugging) with an insult (upon wich he cautiously refuses to
elaborate). He clearly is the provocateur.
Jack
<cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
> Sorry, I fail to see a provocation from Zizou here. "He looked at me
> with huge arrogance" ? Surely you're kidding. Materazzi himself
> aknowledges having responded to a good line (following an usual
> shirt-tugging) with an insult (upon wich he cautiously refuses to
> elaborate). He clearly is the provocateur.
oh my God!! What do you think, that Materazzi holded his jersey because he
wanted it?? Ins't this a provocation??
Materazzi answered to Zizou," i'll rather take the shirt of your wife",
that isn't fair, but is an arrogant answer to an arrogant provocation.
J.
cru...@club-internet.fr
Okay, I see your point. I have to disagree, but I won't be able to
change your mind anymore than you'll be able to change mine, so maybe
it's just a case where we're both defending our national thug for bad
reasons. Well, they're both big boys, nobody's been seriously hurt and
it's just football anyway, so let's forget it and rejoice in your
victory, it was well deserved.
Cordialement,
Frenchy
Jack
<cru...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
> Okay, I see your point. I have to disagree, but I won't be able to
> change your mind anymore than you'll be able to change mine, so maybe
> it's just a case where we're both defending our national thug for bad
> reasons.
Bad reasons? I really tried to be objective, even if it isn't evident to
you.
Well, they're both big boys, nobody's been seriously hurt and
> it's just football anyway, so let's forget it and rejoice in your
> victory, it was well deserved.
>
That's fair. You were a great opponent, and this Cup has even more
importance and value because in the final we met such a team.
Congratulations to you, all the france can be proud of your team.
J.