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Syndic et Frais de mutation

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Gilbert >

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Dec 2, 2008, 10:14:14 AM12/2/08
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Bonjour.

En 2000, j'achete 2 parking dans une copropriété.
Le Syndic a cette epoque me facture 120 € de frais d'inscriptions (pour
les 2 lots).

Je vends ces parkings cette année, et le syndic me reclame encore 2 x
260€ comme frais de mutation.
Je suis en train de demander le detail pour savoir si je paye 2 x 130€
pour les 2 lots ous si c'est 260 pour changer le proprietaire (les 2
lots sont vendus a la meme personne)

Le contrat de syndic a été renegocié il y a un ou 2 ans, je ne retrouve
plus le detail de ce qu'il a le droit de facturer, mais je me doute bien
que s'il demande cela risque d'apparaitre dans son contrat.

Cette somme me parait enorme pour 2 parkings. Cela represente 1.5% du
fruit de la vente.

Donc la qestion, car il en faut une, est ce que s'il facture 2x 130
c'est normal? Car en fouinant dans les archives, je me rends compte
qu'en 2000 il n'aurait pas du me reclamer les 120€.

Qu'en pensez vous?

Merci.

Alain 34

unread,
Dec 2, 2008, 10:56:55 AM12/2/08
to

Bjr,
il y a une importante part de frais fixes, aussi les mutations
paraissent toujours élevées, en %, par rapport au prix de la chose.
Alain

Scipion

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Dec 2, 2008, 11:16:50 AM12/2/08
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http://minilien.com/?nCoPw3IRmU


"Gilbert >" a écrit :

Gilbert >

unread,
Dec 2, 2008, 11:37:51 AM12/2/08
to
Bonjour.

Merci pour le lien, mais j'ai du mal a interpreter la decision etant un
beat en droit.

Ma femme a eu le secretariat du syndic au telephone, sur le detail, les
260€ correspondent a des "frais de questionnement".
Avec un titre aussi peu explicite, je me demande a quoi les rapprocher.


Scipion a écrit :

Patrick V

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Dec 2, 2008, 12:04:04 PM12/2/08
to
Gilbert > a écrit :

> Ma femme a eu le secretariat du syndic au telephone, sur le detail, les
> 260€ correspondent a des "frais de questionnement".
> Avec un titre aussi peu explicite, je me demande a quoi les rapprocher.

Ce n'est pas à toi de chercher mais à eux de te dire sur quoi ils se
basent. Donc tu leur demandes à quelle clause précisément du règlement
de copro ou à quelle décision d'AG ils se réfèrent pour réclamer cette
somme.

La jurisprudence citée explique que ça ne peut pas être justifié par
leur seul mandat donné par l'AG, quand bien même cela était prévu dans
les honoraires.

Gilbert >

unread,
Dec 2, 2008, 12:06:00 PM12/2/08
to
Derniere question:

Est ce que vous pensez que je puisse me fier a ces indications:
http://www.unarc.asso.fr/site/abus/1205/abus630.htm

Est ce risqué pour moi pour une si petite somme?
Quelle genre d'information faudrait il que je rassemble pour convaincre
le syndic que cette facturation est indue?

Merci.
L'acte authentique sera signé demain, si je fais le mort, puis je
demander le remboursement par la suite?

Gilbert > a écrit :

Gilbert>

unread,
Dec 2, 2008, 5:06:00 PM12/2/08
to
Bonjour.

En rentrant a la maison, j'ai regardé dans mes papiers et j'ai retrouvé
le contrat liant le syndicat des coproprietaires et le syndic.

On trouve donc bien dans la liste des tarifs pour les differentes
prestations:
Frais en cas de mutation:
Etablissement du questionnaire (a La charge du vendeur) 260€

Je ne comprends pas si cette somme est legale ou pas.
Puis la contester a posteriori de la signature de l'acte authentique?

Merci.

edgar

unread,
Dec 2, 2008, 5:59:31 PM12/2/08
to

"Gilbert >" <to...@toto.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
493550c2$0$9015$426a...@news.free.fr...

Il est exact qu'en 2000 cette facture n'avait pas de fondement legal
en effet, meme si vote en assemblee generale, ces honoraires prevus au
tarif, etaient un contrat entre le syndicat des co-proprietaires et le
syndic, mais chaque co-proprietaire, pris en tant que personne n'etait pas
tenu par ce contrat.
Depuis 2005 (a un an pres) les textes ont change, et chaque co-proprietaire
est tenu par le contrat signe avec le syndic
en ce qui concerne le prix de l'etat date, c'est un prix par lot, que ce
soit un appartement de 500.000 ou un parking de 15.000 euros


mj.vuillemin

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Dec 2, 2008, 6:32:58 PM12/2/08
to
> Bonjour.
>
> En rentrant a la maison, j'ai regardé dans mes papiers et j'ai
> retrouvé le contrat liant le syndicat des coproprietaires et le
> syndic.
> On trouve donc bien dans la liste des tarifs pour les differentes
> prestations:
> Frais en cas de mutation:
> Etablissement du questionnaire (a La charge du vendeur) 260¤
>
> Je ne comprends pas si cette somme est legale ou pas.
> Puis la contester a posteriori de la signature de l'acte authentique?
>
> Merci.

contrat liant le syndicat des copropriétaires et le syndic a
vraisemblablement été voté par l'Assemblée générale ce n'est peut etre pas
légal......mais c'est une obligation contractuelle qui est t'es opposable

>
> Patrick V wrote:
>> Gilbert > a écrit :
>>> Ma femme a eu le secretariat du syndic au telephone, sur le detail,
>>> les 260¤ correspondent a des "frais de questionnement".
>>> Avec un titre aussi peu explicite, je me demande a quoi les
>>> rapprocher.
>>
>> Ce n'est pas à toi de chercher mais à eux de te dire sur quoi ils se
>> basent. Donc tu leur demandes à quelle clause précisément du
>> règlement de copro ou à quelle décision d'AG ils se réfèrent pour
>> réclamer cette somme.
>>
>> La jurisprudence citée explique que ça ne peut pas être justifié par
>> leur seul mandat donné par l'AG, quand bien même cela était prévu
>> dans les honoraires.


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Droger Jean-Paul

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Dec 3, 2008, 2:55:17 AM12/3/08
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ces frais rénumre le syndic pour faire les comptes provisoires de ce
que tu dois à la copropriété et ainsi répondre au notaire qui pose la
question afin de retenir ces sommes sur le prix de vente!!

elle permet de le rénumérer aussi pour clore ton compte et créer celui
de ton successeur ....

Je ne sais comment est organisé un syndic pour ce faire, mais la somme
de 130 e demandée par lot représente environ entre 1 à 2 h de travail
tous frais compris; cela me semble large, certes, mais bon s'il y a
plusieurs intervenants (un gestionaire, un comptable, une secrétaire
etc) cela peut se justifier!!

Ce qui est incontestable c'est que la mutation d'un lot crée du boulot
chez le syndic, boulot que le syndicat des copropriétaires n'a pas à
supporter mais bien les deux propriétaires ... la justice ayant tranché
puisqu'elle a jugé que le propriétaire entrant n'a rien à payer, c'est
bien le sortant qui doit payer ces frais!! Fallait contester le niveau
au moment de l'AG qui a voté le contrat avec le syndic!!

--
Pour m'envoyer un mail, remplacer anti par droger et manama par
wanadoo; to send me directly a mail replace anti with droger and manama
with wanadoo;
anti.je...@manama.fr


Gilbert >

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Dec 3, 2008, 3:33:35 AM12/3/08
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Merci a tous les contributeurs de ce fil.

Je n'ai donc plus qu'a payer.
Je vais me contenter de contester l'arreté des comptes, car le solde est
inexact.
Il n'a pas tenu compte du paiement d'un des appels de fonds.
Je pense qu'une photocop du relevé de compte avec la ligne correspondant
a l'encaissement devrait lui faire entendre raison sans probleme.

Je pense que le notaire pourra sequestrer la somme jusqu'a ce que
l'erreur soit corrigée.

Droger Jean-Paul a écrit :

MichaellaS

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Jul 20, 2009, 6:21:03 PM7/20/09
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Nov 24, 2009, 8:42:29 PM11/24/09
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Jan 21, 2010, 11:00:44 AM1/21/10
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Feb 27, 2010, 5:38:07 PM2/27/10
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liarderce

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Feb 28, 2010, 11:08:05 PM2/28/10
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Hey everyone what do you think of this! Pretty crazy stuff! I don't think anyone is going to stop young people from partying but what do my fellow moms think?

At Virginia Tech, where tailgating and raucous apartment complex parties are time-honored rituals, university officials are turning increasingly to Mom and Dad to curb problem underage drinking.

This semester, the school in Blacksburg, Va., began notifying parents when their under-21 students are found guilty of even minor alcohol violations such as getting caught with a beer in a dorm room.

Although it's common for colleges to alert parents of major alcohol offenses — or when a student faces suspension — Virginia Tech is part of a small but growing number sending letters home on minor ones.

The debate about how much to involve parents in such cases is a balancing act for colleges and universities. Officials want to hold young adults accountable as they venture out on their own, are well aware that drinking is part of the college experience, and also recognize potential allies in a generation of hands-on parents who can help when things go too far.

"I think it helps students open up to parents," said Steven Clarke, director of Virginia Tech's College Alcohol Abuse Prevention Center. "And parents can be helpful in setting boundaries students might need."

The beefed-up parental notification policy is part of a broader strategy that includes alcohol-education classes and a "party positive" program that encourages responsible drinking.

The student reaction to the policy change, not surprisingly, has been less than enthusiastic.

"If you have one beer in the dorm and you get caught, I don't feel like parents should be notified," said Erik Pryslak, a junior engineering major. "Now that we're all in college, we're all adults. It's kind of your responsibility to take care of yourself. If you want to make your parents aware you're about to be kicked out of school, then it's on you."

Studies show that students who say their parents would disapprove of them drinking are less likely to drink heavily once they get to college, said Toben Nelson, an assistant professor at the University of Minnesota School of Public Health who has studied campus drinking.

At Virginia Tech, the school has operated on a "three strikes" system for years: Students get one strike for a minor alcohol violation and two for a major one — things like getting a DUI or vomiting all over a residence hall bathroom. Three strikes and a student is suspended for at least one semester.

After a spate of alcohol-related deaths on college campuses, Congress in the late 1990s changed student privacy laws to lower barriers to parental notification in cases involving students under 21.

Schools took a wide array of approaches in response. Virginia Tech started notifying parents of under-21 students after major alcohol offenses or when a student had accumulated two strikes with two minor ones.

But some parents complained that because they had not been notified of minor offenses, they were in the dark until a student was suddenly facing suspension, said Edward Spencer, Virginia Tech's vice president for student affairs. Hence the change this semester — a move Spencer says also reflects changing times.

Parents of Generation X students were often reluctant to get involved when the school invoked an emergency clause in privacy laws and alerted them of alcohol problems, he said.

"The response would be, 'You know, I'm leaving on a cruise. I'm going to a class reunion.'"

But today, parents of millennials tend to be tethered by cell phone to children who studies show often idolize their parents — so it makes sense to go a step further in parental involvement, he said.

"We'd like to strike a happy medium," Spencer said. "We're grateful for the positive involvement of parents. We find it difficult when their involvement is over-involvement."

Research has found more than 40 percent of college students reported at least one symptom of alcohol abuse or dependance. One recent study estimated that more than 500,000 full-time students at four-year colleges suffer injuries each year related to drinking, and about 1,700 die in such accidents.

"When it comes to safety, there really is a fine line," said Max DiSesa, a sophomore from Durham, N.H. "I completely understand Virginia Tech and they want to keep people safe. But I think this might be overall detrimental to the growth of students."

Some universities already have found success alerting parents earlier. The University at Albany, State University of New York has seen a decline in repeat offenders since it began notifying parents of under-21 students of minor alcohol violations four years ago, said Laurie Garafola, director of residential life.

"I don't send many second letters out to parents," she said.

At the University of North Carolina Wilmington, the philosophy is different. The school — which like many others stresses shared responsibility to parents and students during summer orientation — does not notify parents of minor offenses. Parents, however, are notified before any under-21 student is suspended.

"Part of students coming to college is to learn how to be a responsible adult — and hopefully learn from their mistakes," said Patricia Leonard, vice chancellor for student affairs.

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

PenSinyReiX

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Mar 2, 2010, 6:57:30 AM3/2/10
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Hey I saw this on E! news.... Do you guys think people should keep pets that are so dangerous when they have little kids?

Another sad dose of real life has hit the family of a reality TV star.

The 4-year-old daughter of Ax Men slinger Jesse Browning has been mauled to death by the family's Rottweiler.

Ashlynn Anderson's body was discovered by her mother outside on the lawn Sunday, according to officials in Astoria, Ore., where the family resides.

"Apparently, the dog just snapped," says Clatsop County Sheriff Tom Bergin. "We have detectives working on investigating [what set the dog off]...We are going to give the family a day or two to grieve before we interview them."

Browning called 911 and the girl was airlifted to a Portland hospital, but pronounced dead on arrival.

There was no immediate comment from the History Channel, which airs the popular lumberjack series.

Bergin says the attack came four months to the day after deputies removed a Rottweiler from the premises after it attacked an adult family member; that animal was euthanized. The Brownings' two other Rottweilers have been quarantined at a shelter and are awaiting their fate.

"It's from my understanding...only one of the dogs was involved in the attack but both dogs were seized by animal control services," said Alan Oja, assistant chief of the Astoria Police Department, which received the initial dispatch.

"It's a terrible tragedy."

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Mar 18, 2010, 4:45:28 AM3/18/10
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Emolfvofe

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Apr 1, 2010, 6:16:00 AM4/1/10
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Apr 16, 2010, 12:17:59 AM4/16/10
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Hello, im a newbie here and think this forum is intresting. I am going to contribute here and hopefully stick around! just though id say hello.

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