Announement

[manish modi]

Announcement
We(me manish,jitendra,suraj) are working for the development of a program.

Actually one the common problem here in the Nepal is linux users face the difficulty to get the packages of any application with all its dependecies because they dont have internet on their PC.

In the absence of packaging tool like apt and yum its really tough to get any packages into computer
Its tedious if somebody opt for going cyber cafe or frens computer & download/copy the application along with its all dependencies and recursive dependencies too.
Infact it has become very difficult for one to have the linux without internet.

Apart from this updating the packages without internet is very difficult but with internet too its really difficult because hundreds of Mbs need to be downloaded so unless we have fast internet we enjoy the packages without update.

So we guys trying to solve these problems

Overview of our application

We will have machine one like ATM

We will have three outlets from machine

1. For usb(pen drive,flask disk)
2. For CD/DVD
3. One for mouse(there wont be keyboard)

We will be maintaining the repository of the linux distribution  which will be updated their repositories available(gutsy,fiesty,debian) & Free and open source softare for windows.

User can search the packages he/she needs & our program will calculate all the dependencies(for linux),make repo of all the packages selected and allow them to copy it to usb disks(pen drives,flash disks) or cd/dvd.

Now user can copy the repo in their hard disk & there will be install script which will modify sources.list file,so that the packages can easily be installed from synaptic/apt-get/aptitude whenever needed without internet.

We had a dicussion on this last saturday with Subir dai,Basanta dai,Ankur,Jwalanta,Shishir,Rajeev,Bibek,Dhruba,Yogesh.
We are yet to decide the name for this application
We had few we want you to vote which one will be better
1.ATR (Any time repo)
2.Software Dhukuti
3.EPM Easy Package Manager
4.YAP Yet Another Packager
5.EPT easy package tool

and if another any name you think is appropriate then you are free to suggest

--
With Regards
Manish Modi
Pulchowk Campus,IOE
manish...@gmail.com

[Shishir Jha]

What happened to ANA is not apt-get, that was nice, but anyway, a commendable thought and a really useful program. If you ask me i think ATR or software dhukuti would be a good option.

Cheers

--
Shishir Jha
EPC 1970,GPO 8975,
KTM,NEPAL

[Akash Deep Shakya]

Thats a really gud idea,
sth like FT++
great work guys!!

--
Regards
Akash Deep Shakya "OpenAK"
~ Failure to prepare is preparing to fail ~

[manish modi]

+ANA -ANA is not apt-get

[Sulabh]

Humm, great idea. This package thing troubles me as well. So, will be looking forward to your system.

And, +1 for Software Dhukuti

[Jwalanta Shrestha]

i'm with ANA (n u know why.. ;))

gr8 concept dude, lets get it started.. 'release early, release often..'

[प्रबीण ( ओपन ठिटो )]

Why not LPM --> Linux Package Manager?  If not already developed....or registered....

o......i googled it to get:

LPM - Linux from scratch Package Manager

Software dhukuti is nice... but i am not understanding..... if its exactly like FT or its a package manager which bundle the application with all required dependencies in runtime???
If my understanding is correct... I think name--software dhukuti ...मिल्दैन होला।

PMN... "Package Manager from Nepal"... कस्तो छ? let everybody know around the globe.

well will be posting as anything strikes.....

Anyway, good idea...go on... keep it up...

--
Prabin Gautam "ओपन ठिटो"
Registered Linux User #443940
letS makE ouR streeT FOSSible..........

[manish modi]

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 10:28 PM, प्रबीण ( ओपन ठिटो ) <prabin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why not LPM --> Linux Package Manager?  If not already developed....or registered....

o......i googled it to get:

LPM - Linux from scratch Package Manager

Software dhukuti is nice... but i am not understanding..... if its exactly like FT or its a package manager which bundle the application with all required dependencies in runtime???
If my understanding is correct... I think name--software dhukuti ...मिल्दैन होला।

 no its not exactly like FT
its like  package manager which  will bundle the application with all its required dependencies and make repo which has easy install script
apart from this it will also calculate the update system if provided with configuration file
for which we will provide script
your questions will help us to improve us

PMN... "Package Manager from Nepal"... कस्तो छ? let everybody know around the globe.

well will be posting as anything strikes.....

Anyway, good idea...go on... keep it up...

--
Prabin Gautam "ओपन ठिटो"
Registered Linux User #443940
letS makE ouR streeT FOSSible..........

[Narayan Sundar Sonepa]

That's a great idea. Hope we can use it as soon as possible.

On 3/31/08, manish modi <manish...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ankur Sharma]

lets call it PTP (poko the packager).
or simply poko

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

Have you checked over the internet (or this list's logs) ?

From what I understand, there are many available already.

Debian => pypt-offline (http://pypt-offline.sf.net)
Fedora => Opium (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DebarshiRay/Opyum)

Any other distro?? SLES ??

For pypt-offline, you get Offline Bug Report functionality also (just for
Debian. You can make it work for Ubuntu, maybe.)

Have you already started working on it ?
If not, I'd suggest you have a look at the ones listed above and help extend
them. For pypt-offline, if you need any help, feel free to contact me
off-list.

Ritesh

manish modi wrote:

--
If possible, Please CC me when replying. I'm not subscribed to the list.

[suraj]

Hello Ritesh,
  Yea, not not all but we have checked few applications that provides offline package solution. In contrast to them it will give a broader range of solution. And to be more specific, it is targed for general users who are unable to use linux (foss-softwares) because:
--> they dont have internet
--> they dont have friend or someone, who can download them mb's of packages
--> they can't upgrade there system, because of slow internet, or .....
--> they cant get latest ISO's of linux distro.
--> ...
Currently this application will have the following features:
--> Provide a custom-repo for the packages you require. And hence allow installation with your favourite tool: apt-get
--> Provide a complete-repo that you require for your system upgrade.
--> The user can choose between usb-storage/cd/dvd storage for transportation of the repo.
--> If you have your system-config file, you will be provided with only those packages that you require. ie, the package that you have already in your system won't be ported to your repo.
--> Provide latest linux-distro in cd/dvd.
--> Provide FOSS-softwares for windows too.

And initially it will only be debian-based.

--
सुरज सापकोटा
Suraj Sapkota
ssap...@gmail.com
|-~~~---~~~^~-------~~|  o
| programmed2program | /O\
|-~~~---~~~^~-------~~|  / \

[nepbabu.cx]

suraj wrote:
> Hello Ritesh,
> Yea, not not all but we have checked few applications that provides
> offline package solution. In contrast to them it will give a broader range
> of solution. And to be more specific, it is targed for general users who are
> unable to use linux (foss-softwares) because:
> --> they dont have internet
> --> they dont have friend or someone, who can download them mb's of packages
> --> they can't upgrade there system, because of slow internet, or .....
> --> they cant get latest ISO's of linux distro.
> --> ...
> Currently this application will have the following features:
> --> Provide a custom-repo for the packages you require. And hence allow
> installation with your favourite tool: apt-get
> --> Provide a complete-repo that you require for your system upgrade.
> --> The user can choose between usb-storage/cd/dvd storage for
> transportation of the repo.
> --> If you have your system-config file, you will be provided with only
> those packages that you require. ie, the package that you have already in
> your system won't be ported to your repo.
> --> Provide latest linux-distro in cd/dvd.
> --> Provide FOSS-softwares for windows too.
>
> And initially it will only be debian-based.

Great stuff! I assume it works for Ubuntu as well?
If so can one of you guys host this project on
launchpad or sf?

Keep up the hard work and your openness!!!

Goodluck on future projects and if ubuntu-np team
can be of any help let us know.

cheers,
Bikal

[Ujjwol लामिछाने[UNIX]]

livna and fedora repository also should be also made available...

[Ashay Thakur]

the recursive ANA sounded gr8
software dhukuti makes it sound different!
BOL w/ the repos guys
This should encourage more newbies for sure!

[Hempal Shrestha]

Cool guys, I am also often troubled by this problem, will be looking forward for this project realised early.

Just to add on the Ankurs namkaran, how about Packager Poko ;)

Best Wishes
HS

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

On Tuesday 01 April 2008, suraj wrote:
> Hello Ritesh,
>   Yea, not not all but we have checked few applications that provides
> offline package solution. In contrast to them it will give a broader range
> of solution. And to be more specific, it is targed for general users who
> are unable to use linux (foss-softwares) because: --> they dont have
> internet
> --> they dont have friend or someone, who can download them mb's of
> packages --> they can't upgrade there system, because of slow internet, or
> ..... --> they cant get latest ISO's of linux distro.
> --> ...
> Currently this application will have the following features:
> --> Provide a custom-repo for the packages you require. And hence allow
> installation with your favourite tool: apt-get --> Provide a complete-repo
> that you require for your system upgrade. --> The user can choose between
> usb-storage/cd/dvd storage for transportation of the repo. --> If you have
> your system-config file, you will be provided with only those packages that
> you require. ie, the package that you have already in your system won't be
> ported to your repo. --> Provide latest linux-distro in cd/dvd.
> --> Provide FOSS-softwares for windows too.
>
> And initially it will only be debian-based.

So are you making it a publically accessible machine ?
Will this machine have the entire distribution mirror ?

That might not be practical. And even if it is, it might not be helpful to
all. For example, you might be able to address the needs of people in one
area (say New Baneshwor) but what about people in other areas (say
Bhaktapur) ?

I have a lot of machines running Debian in my lab. To make effective
utilization of bandwidth, I'd rather use a proxy cache (or an apt-proxy
cache). This way, when I update on one box, for the other box the data is
server from the cache, if it is identical.

I'm not very sure about what exact problem you're trying to address. But I'd
only request is that you design the application with all users in mind. Users
which might also be at a distant location.
For example, If there's a user in Dharan and has Debian installed and doesn't
have an internet connection but would like to update/upgrade, you should have
an application which could help her accomplish the task without requiring any
man/machine dependency.

Good Luck.

Ritesh
--
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT - http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."

[manish modi]

thanks Riteshji for your suggestions and queries
Actually we are trying for all possible distributions
and once we cache the repositories in single machine then we can copy
that to other machines to so only effort is for caching once and we
trying to keep these machines in educational institutes and public
places in order to make available to everyone as far as possible.
And also told that if user in dharan and no internet on his pc one
option can be he will run the script(which we will be providing) to
generate a configuration file for his computer,send that to his fren
in the place where there is machine,and his fren might burn all the
required packages in cd and send to him this one option.
If u think there might be another options too, u r free to suggest, we
need ur suggestions for improvement

[suraj]

The message is originally from bishworaj.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bishworaj <bish...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Announement
To: manish modi <manish...@gmail.com>


great idea... the dependency thing has been troubling me a lot.


To the developers:-
I love the idea of the software as well as the way it is intended to
be distributed (thru public machines!).
"Linux Pakage Poko" or simply "pakage poko" would be a nice name.

To the sceptics:-
Let 'em do the job while we keep doing nothing.
The project might not change things overnight and everywhere.. but it
is certainly going to create a wider linux user base which will then
extend hands to the more people awaiting the help.

If a pirated XP can get to every Gulli of any town, i dont see a
reason why cant it get to Dharan or anywhere. Its not that everybody
needs to get to the machine to obtailn the software, there are things
called ' friends'  who can help anybody get it.

My case:-
I have a internet connection on my XP machine but cant connect to the
internet from ubuntu. I would have downloaded softweres from XP for
ubuntu, but even the reminder of dependency scares me off.
I would love to have an outlet near my chowk, but i would settle for
being able to download the repos without worring about dependencies.
I am anxiously waiting ..

[suraj]

Looking at this post, we observed the following:
- Every body wanted it to be related with the word "Package"
- Most of us wanted it to be nepali, Specially the word "poko" was redundant.
- Most of us wanted it to be recursive.

And henceforth we decided it to be:

PPP , "PPP is Package ko Poko"

Where is the name?
SELECT BETWEEN THE LINES TO SEE IT.

--
सुरज सापकोटा

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

manish modi wrote:

> thanks Riteshji for your suggestions and queries
> Actually we are trying for all possible distributions
> and once we cache the repositories in single machine then we can copy
> that to other machines to so only effort is for caching once and we
> trying to keep these machines in educational institutes and public
> places in order to make available to everyone as far as possible.
> And also told that if user in dharan and no internet on his pc one
> option can be he will run the script(which we will be providing) to
> generate a configuration file for his computer,send that to his fren
> in the place where there is machine,and his fren might burn all the
> required packages in cd and send to him this one option.
> If u think there might be another options too, u r free to suggest, we
> need ur suggestions for improvement

Okay!!

So now I understand what you are trying to address.

While it is good to have mirrors, it is not the most optimal thing to do,
Especially if you have a resource crunch (bandwidth/storage et cetera).
And will the educational institutions be willing to shell out money for that
extra bandwidth/storage ?

I'd rather suggest you a solution based on top of proxy + your helper
application.
Example:
apt-proxy + Packager PoKo (or whatever :-) )

This would only download what people demand and cache it.

BTW, as the developer, I'm curios to know what pypt-offline doesn't solve
for your particular requirement?
It has most of what you've mentioned
* Downloading
* Dependency Tracking.
* Cache Tracking
* Offline Bug Reports
* MD5 Checksum
* Multiple Downloads.
* Cross Platform.

Is there anything I've missed from the requirement list ?

Ritesh

[प्रबीण ( ओपन ठिटो )]

personally, i do not like the name"ppp is package ko poko".

But go on.. i wont say you should not...

Regards,

[suraj]

Riteshji,
We appreciate your suggestion,and earlier, jwalanta dai also suggested it.
To implement the proxy we need continuous internet. We don't think we will be able to manage it in our initial phase.
Oh...yea , you most be wondering, where  the repo comes from?
For the first time we are thinking of getting it with the help of ISP or from our college. And for new updates,
the server may be given scheduled access to internet say, 2-4 hr a day or even less.

Its the lowest level of internet access that we are expecting...

Riteshji we will obviously try, to implement it if we got continuous internet support.

Ok let me mention what i think,
- first of all ATR ( yes, we named it ATR-Any Time Repo) is a repo.
- secondly it provides a small repo, accourding to your requirement in the device that you choose (cd/dvd/usb)
- thirdly it computes the dependency on the basis of the config file that you bring, and hence it wont copy the packages you    have already installed in your system.
- it will burns ready-made ISO (distros) to cd/dvd
- further you can bring your own and friends config-file take the diff-repo and make your system look like your friends
- Obviously for maintaining the repo we have , downloader, dependency traker, cache traker, MD5-checksum ...

Is there anything I've missed from the requirement list ?

Ritesh
--

If possible, Please CC me when replying. I'm not subscribed to the list.

Regards,
--
Suraj Sapkota

सुरज सापकोटा

ssap...@gmail.com

[Jitendra kumar]

Hi all,

    Good to see great response. And thanks for the suggestions on the issue of name and other technical advices. Riteshji, i haven't seen functionality of pypt-offline and opium. Actually been away. Perhaps, Manish and Suraj may have given a good look at that. Will make sure that we know its strength and weaknesses as soon as possible.

    However, we are pretty sure that it is going to work a good deal for the underdeveloped nations like ours. Actually, I myself have suffered from the same problem. And recently i have left asking ppl to use Linux coz i really had no answers when the issue of fetching the packages came. This machine, hopefully, should be solution chiefly because it is going to be at public place and secondly it is not going to be for a particular disto (definitely we got to start with one distro but we plan to expand it and if everything works properly it should include FOSS for Windows as well). So, it is going to be a one stop solution. Lets expect everything goes fine.

    Ur suggestions and queries are always welcome. Please, be patient if it take us some time to reply.

 

---Jitendra Harlalka