Linux Users Group of Bosnia and Herzegovina (LUG BiH)
Vedran Ljubovic
I'm writing on behalf of LUG BiH (locally abbreviated as ULK BiH). We
would like to support this effort and offer our help! Here is a (not
very) brief introduction to our group:
LUG BiH was founded as an informal group in 1999, and registered as
NGO in 2001. Our stated mission is to promote not just Linux OS but
FLOSS in general. Also we provide support and a place for exchange of
ideas and opinions to local FLOSS users.
Over the years we have engaged in a number of promotional activities
with high media visibility. On two occasions we've sent open letters
to government over their spending on licenses for proprietary
software, both times receiving media coverage:
Ref: http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=mediji
(These are clippings from highest circulation daily papers in BH,
unfortunately local language only. There were also reports in TV
headline news.)
One of our core projects is a localized Linux distro called BHLD
(Bosnia-Herzegovina Linux Desktop): http://bhld.linux.org.ba/
(photos from release promotions:
http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=promocija
http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=bhld2 )
Our group also organizes successful seminars on Linux and other FLOSS
technologies such as Python, Ruby, PHP, Firebird database etc.
(photos: http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=rubypython06 ,
http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=firebird06 )
We've also organized highly successful hacklabs and Linux events
targeted at general public:
(photos: http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=linuxzasve05 ,
http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=maraton0206 ,
http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=lzs2k8 , http://www.linux.org.ba/galerija/?dir=sajam05
)
Our members have been involved in organization of DebConf 2011 in
Banja Luka:
http://debconf11.debconf.org/
In addition, our group did a very intensive lobbying effort for
DebConf 2009 in Sarajevo, which we narrowly lost to Edinbourgh.
We've run Linux training courses and issued over 100 graduation
certificates. These courses are now suspended due to lack of interest
from both students and trainers. We are continuing trainings in PHP in
collaboration with EE students' organizations from Sarajevo.
LUG BiH runs a highly relevant and popular Linux forum at http://forum.linux.org.ba
(local languages only, but you can use Google Translate with Croatian
or Serbian language to get a glimpse of discussions... English
language posts are welcomed and will be replied in English as long as
they are not bots, which we've had a lot of lately). A lot of user
support happens on this forum. Your efforts (FLOSS Kosova and this
list) were mentioned on that forum.
LUG BiH currently coordinates localization of Ubuntu Linux, Debian and
LibreOffice into Bosnian language (bs). In Ubuntu Launchpad, Bosnian
is among top 10 languages worldwide by localization stats, we are
currently focusing on proof-reading and QA. Our group contributed
locale and language data for glibc and Xorg. Historically we've also
successfully coordinated localization of: Mandriva Linux, OpenSuse,
OpenOffice.org, KDE, GNOME, GNU core utils and gnu.org/fsf.org
website. As you surely know, localization is a moving target and some
of this effort has since become obsolete.
Re: what Aleksandar wrote:
We've always seen our group as a hub for all localization efforts
related to BH and Bosnian language. To this effect we've hosted a web
translation platform (Pootle), collaborative dictionary and wiki. Our
idea was to entice potential localizers by doing all the bureaucracy
for listing a Bosnian team and just let them work on strings. We've
repeatedly called for all interested to take over project coordination
(with whatever personal benefits they expect to gain) as long as the
work gets done in a coordinated and linguistically uniform manner.
Unfortunately, number of actual contributors remained very low, and
personal priorities of those contributors dictated what will get done.
For example, Mandriva Linux distro was 100% translated during the time
when I used that distro :) Historically there was a low number of
actual Fedora users in Bosnia, this is changing as of late and we will
perhaps - for n-th time - invite those new Fedora users to contribute.
In the past our efforts were thwarted by politics within large FLOSS
projects such as Mozilla, which resulted in our group moving to other
projects that were easier to work with. I personally have nothing but
utmost respect for Mozilla BH Community and their work on Firefox
localization, I can only hope that one day they direct some of that
energy to the other highly important FLOSS projects such as
LibreOffice.
The fact is that our group is decreasing in active membership and
weekly meetings are not so regular any more. Our projects mostly went
out of use, we have shut down Pootle and mailing list server and are
now shutting down the wiki due to security concerns because noone has
used those facilities for years. The people that founded this LUG have
moved on with their lives and other priorities, and noone stood up to
replace them. Our website and forum stats show that there is an
increasing number of Linux users, but decreasing number of active LUG
members. We are open to honest and constructive criticism of our
actions and suggestions for improvement of this situation.
There is a growing sentiment among our members that localization is
neither necessary nor useful. A number of people have publicly stated
that they would gladly contribute in any way *except* localization
(yes, this includes writing code) because they see localization as the
lowest form of menial labor for which they expect to be payed. Our
group is lobbying for government funding of FLOSS localization,
unfortunately we've only once received a modest support for
localization of Ubuntu and OpenOffice.org in 2009.
Also, it must be said that philosophical and, should I say political
aspects of FLOSS are not very welcomed by the average Bosnian. Bosnia
is a country that has had too much of politics in the past years, and
people have grown allergic to ideas that smell of politics (such as
"free as freedom"). Thus, Stallmans visit last year met with very
little public reaction. Most of forum goers appreciate Linux as a
technically superb product, not because they believe that all software
should be free (or "free"). In the past some of our members had plans
for registering a FLOSS org (or a FSF chapter) but these ideas met
with little support.
===
All that said, we can provide modest support for this project in the
form of experience and contacts. Our subgroup in Zenica organized a
yearly Linux seminar which sadly didn't continue past 2005 (website is
also down). The hardest part IMO will be finding volunteers for ground
work.
Sorry for this lenghty post, I hope that you find time to wrestle with
my poor English and get the core message.
Best regards and good luck with your efforts,
Vedran Ljubović
David Bailey MBE
You should be proud of your English
You have articulated the Bosnian reality in your final paragraphs exceptionally well.
Doing anything worthwhile regarding Bosnia requires creativity, innovation and sensitivity.
Your country has unique issues that most people fail to recognise.
I live in BIH and also realise your reality, and the frustration of a not having a unified central country.
Having said that I believe that a FLOSS conference of some sort would be cool.
Best Regards/ puno pozdrav
David
David Bailey MBE
www.davidbaileymbe.com
www.davidbaileymbe.net
Dan Brickley
On 4 January 2012 22:40, Vedran Ljubovic <vlju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I'm writing on behalf of LUG BiH (locally abbreviated as ULK BiH). We
> would like to support this effort and offer our help! Here is a (not
> very) brief introduction to our group: [...] [...]
(thanks for the history, really interesting!)
> The fact is that our group is decreasing in active membership and
> weekly meetings are not so regular any more. Our projects mostly went
> out of use, we have shut down Pootle and mailing list server and are
> now shutting down the wiki due to security concerns because noone has
> used those facilities for years. The people that founded this LUG have
> moved on with their lives and other priorities, and noone stood up to
> replace them. Our website and forum stats show that there is an
> increasing number of Linux users, but decreasing number of active LUG
> members. We are open to honest and constructive criticism of our
> actions and suggestions for improvement of this situation.
That kind of rhythm isn't so unusual in projects and online communities...
> There is a growing sentiment among our members that localization is
> neither necessary nor useful. A number of people have publicly stated
> that they would gladly contribute in any way *except* localization
> (yes, this includes writing code) because they see localization as the
> lowest form of menial labor for which they expect to be payed. Our
> group is lobbying for government funding of FLOSS localization,
> unfortunately we've only once received a modest support for
> localization of Ubuntu and OpenOffice.org in 2009.
>
> Also, it must be said that philosophical and, should I say political
> aspects of FLOSS are not very welcomed by the average Bosnian. Bosnia
> is a country that has had too much of politics in the past years, and
> people have grown allergic to ideas that smell of politics (such as
> "free as freedom"). Thus, Stallmans visit last year met with very
> little public reaction. Most of forum goers appreciate Linux as a
> technically superb product, not because they believe that all software
> should be free (or "free"). In the past some of our members had plans
> for registering a FLOSS org (or a FSF chapter) but these ideas met
> with little support.
Yeah there is sometimes a kind of almost-religious enthusiasm for free
software sometimes, which can be a bit alienating for people who have
different enthusiasms.
I talked with Mdupont about this a bit a couple years ago -
https://groups.google.com/group/free-software-conference/msg/629b396138a0edcb
- and your comment suggests that a slightly different focus might be
useful here: if people ... "appreciate Linux as a technically superb
product, not because they believe that all software should be free (or
"free")", maybe other related topics could help make meetings / events
/ discussions more attractive? For example also adding a focus on
Web/Internet standards and technologies, ... and on learning new
stuff.
The freedom side of software is important too, ... but it might not be
the best motivation to get people to meet and collaborate. Are people
more likely to meet up because they want to move the world to adopt
free software, or because they think they'll learn something or enjoy
themselves or otherwise benefit?
Having a broader focus (e.g. talks on HTML5 or modern Javascript or
XML processing or open data...) could work well for those who care
about the 'free' message, as it gives a wider audience for their
message. But it also gives a place for technologists and hackers who
might care more about using technology to solve other problems, than
about solving the problems of technology.
> ===
> All that said, we can provide modest support for this project in the
> form of experience and contacts. Our subgroup in Zenica organized a
> yearly Linux seminar which sadly didn't continue past 2005 (website is
> also down). The hardest part IMO will be finding volunteers for ground
> work.
>
> Sorry for this lenghty post, I hope that you find time to wrestle with
> my poor English and get the core message.
Your English is really fine! I wish I could be so clear in another language...
Thanks,
Dan
Mike Dupont
irc.freenode.net #bosnia channel.
I think the next step forward should be finding new people, and the
best way I know how to do that is offering a free course or training
session.
for this we need to find a location, in a local school, a computer
training center, a university or internet cafe. we might have to raise
money to rent one.
then we can hold a meetup for showing people firefox and linux etc.
this we can promote online and see if we can get people to come.
that worked in kosovo to get a lot of the flossk people motivated
mike
--
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Vedran Ljubovic
Hello all,
Sorry for not responding sooner. Past week was one of those when I can
barely check email from all the work.
Ideas for talks, training sessions etc. are great. Our Faculty of
Electrical Engineering has provided free venue for such events in the
past, as long as they are on topic and can fit into the schedule. Of
course it has to be announced in advance. I can get you in touch with
Students associations who would probably be interested to help. Next
week they are doing an elementary course in HTML/PHP/JavaScript,
there's a lot of interest.
On Jan 10, 10:28 pm, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> irc.freenode.net #bosnia channel.
>
> I think the next step forward should be finding new people, and the
> best way I know how to do that is offering a free course or training
> session.
> for this we need to find a location, in a local school, a computer
> training center, a university or internet cafe. we might have to raise
> money to rent one.
> then we can hold a meetup for showing people firefox and linux etc.
> this we can promote online and see if we can get people to come.
>
> that worked in kosovo to get a lot of the flossk people motivated
> mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Dan Brickley <dan...@danbri.org> wrote:
> > Hi Vedran, all,
>
Mike Dupont
Our Faculty of
Electrical Engineering has provided free venue for such events in the
past, as long as they are on topic and can fit into the schedule.
Velimir
Let us first see how many of "us" are willing to invest time in this
whole thing.
Organizing a conference where the only people wokring on it are
volunteers is a huge job.
We need to know who we can count on and what our/their goals are.
I say let's first see where this whole thing goes (do the workshops,
do some meetings, etc.) and then decide if we want to / are ready to
make a conference?
Regards,
--
Velimir
Mike Dupont
Velimir
I get your point Mike,
but please try to understand that a bunch of us had huge problems with
ppl coming to us before, promising they would help, and then just
disappearing when we needed them.
My suggestion is, start with the workshops, local meetings (not just
in Sarajevo), get the younger population interested and see if there's
will in organizing a conference. After we have a solid group of
volunteers, then we can start planing a conference.
So my suggestion is let's figure out what is the best way to "recruit"
the youth :)
Regards,
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Mike Dupont
--
Velimir