Ban JET... Language Matters
Michael Cohen
> While you may think "colored" is not racist it actually is because it
> was used extensively by racists in a derogatory context. Just like all
> the words you have become familiar with in regard to your ethnic
> backround.
I want to appologize for a bad choice of wording. I did not mean to offend
anybody. Actually, the term "African-American" would not be appropriate
because many JET's are not American. What non-offensive term should I have
used? If I offended anybody I am sincerely sorry, because that was NEVER my
intention. Honestly, what non-offensive term should I have used.
Take care,
Michael
- sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).
John B. Melby
>>Correctness (in which case I may agree or disagree with certain aspects
>>of it) then how about using the term "culturally diverse".
>
> Why not? Because "culturally diverse" is a bullshit term, invented by PC
>pinheads who feel as though we have to atone for something.
Let's see - what's the current PC term..."pigmentationally gifted"? I guess
I'm not one to comment though, since I'm "melanin-deficient" :) )
Perhaps it's a good thing that American-style PC-ness haven't reached
Japan yet...although come to think of it, it may be extremely insensitive
to use terms such as "light-skinned" and "dark-skinned," let alone similes
using "Belgian endive" (an ethnist term?) or "cast bronze," to indicate
how sensitive a particular individual is to ultraviolet rays.
Er...what was the original discussion? Ah, that's right...ageism.
Ageism? In a Japan-related group? The nerve! ;-)
Kyo Lazy Akita
wrote:
> express the words or the concepts in Japanese. The closest I could come
> was that it wasn't politically correct to say "baka-chong camera" (a
> camera so easy to use that a baka or even a Korean could use it).
That is a common misinterpretation of the word 'baka-chong'.
The word 'chong' has nothing to do with Koreans. It is said to originate
from an obsolate word, 'chongare-bouzu', a bum who sings 'chongare-bushi'
to get money. Still, some people here think it shouldn't be used based
on
that misinterpretation. A good example to show how silly it is to be PC.
---
kyo akita
MICHAEL
>'chong' has nothing to do with Koreans. It is said to originate from an
>obsolate word, 'chongare-bouzu', a bum who sings 'chongare-bushi' to get
>money. Still, some people here think it shouldn't be used based on that
>misinterpretation. A good example to show how silly it is to be PC.
Interesting. But I asked a dozen people at work today about that and they all
hadn't heard that origin. Do you have a citation or reference regarding this
alternative interpretation?
MICHAEL __________________________________________
GNJ Spectrum Tokyo +81-3-5377-2401 mic...@gnj.or.jp
Featuring Internet, OneNet and Pride International Networks
Charles Richmond
>
> In article <akita-07119...@sco.bekkoame.or.jp>,
> ak...@sco.bekkoame.or.jp (Kyo Lazy Akita) wrote:
>
> >Anyway, I should have mentioned that the word 'baka-chon' is still widely
> >accepted as a non-discriminatory word even for NOW. Only a few pathetic
> >PC oriented people are trying to believe it as discriminatory, and I'm
> >worried this is becoming a trend. In fact, many people might have
> >believed it so after reading the original post. So, I want you all to be
> >careful not to spread a incorrect information. Maybe it's too late...
>
> Well the word 'baka-chon' is a discriminatory word to stupid people,
> perhaps that's why Peter Payne was so bothered.
>
> I agree that's it's sad to see so many people trying to make something
> out of nothing.
Then I guess it will embarrass you at least a little to know that the "chon"
suffix is derived from "chon-gag" the knotted hair style that was normal on
the 6 million unmarried Korean men and boys who were drafted (forced labor)
by the Japanese colonial government. When the Koreans started cutting their
hair in a more western fashion, then the word took on the meaning of bachelor,
but the derivation of the word "bakachon" is the discriminatory concept of
a stupid Korean man.
Charles
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Kyo Lazy Akita
me...@dove.yk.fujitsu.co.jp (John B. Melby) wrote:
> >The word 'chong' has nothing to do with Koreans. It is said to
originate
>
> Many words have several explanations for their origins. Since usage
> changes over time, one explanation often doesn't suffice (and besides,
> many explanations are wrong to begin with). Other Japanese words
> beginning with "chon-" are used to discriminate against people with
> physical disabilities and strange haircuts.
What are the other words beginning with "chon-"? I can't think of any,
to be honest. Strange hair cuts? I can only think of 'chon-mage' which
is absolutely NOT discriminatory. You can mail me if you don't want to
say those words in public. Just curious.
Anyway, I should have mentioned that the word 'baka-chon' is still widely
accepted as a non-discriminatory word even for NOW. Only a few pathetic
PC oriented people are trying to believe it as discriminatory, and I'm
worried this is becoming a trend. In fact, many people might have
believed it so after reading the original post. So, I want you all to be
careful not to spread a incorrect information. Maybe it's too late...
It's ironical that PC makes up more discriminatory words.
Kyo Lazy Akita
c...@iisc.com (Charles Richmond) wrote:
>Then I guess it will embarrass you at least a little to know that the
"chon"
>suffix is derived from "chon-gag" the knotted hair style that was normal
on
>the 6 million unmarried Korean men and boys who were drafted (forced
labor)
>by the Japanese colonial government. When the Koreans started cutting
their
>hair in a more western fashion, then the word took on the meaning of
bachelor,
>but the derivation of the word "bakachon" is the discriminatory concept
of
>a stupid Korean man.
>
'Ch'onggak' is the korean word for that hair style, and the origin of the
japanese word 'chongah', which was commonly used decades ago, meaning
bachelor in general, well, somewhat derogatorily. But, 'baka-chon'
clearly came from the phrasing , 'baka-dano, chon-dano', as one can
find in the readings in very early Meiji Era way before the colonization
of
Korea. 'Chon' was not a even suffix in Edo era and 'chon' alone meant
'stupid
person(=baka)'. Now people don't use the word 'chon' alone anymore, and
the phrase 'baka-demo, chon-demo' is also getting obsolate, hence causes
this farce as a result. Really pathetic.
Peter Payne
> >Anyway, I should have mentioned that the word 'baka-chon' is still widely
> >accepted as a non-discriminatory word even for NOW. Only a few pathetic
> >PC oriented people are trying to believe it as discriminatory, and I'm
> >worried this is becoming a trend. In fact, many people might have
> >believed it so after reading the original post. So, I want you all to be
> >careful not to spread a incorrect information. Maybe it's too late...
Well, five out of five of my students agreed that it *was* rude. These
are young people in a senmon gakko who otherwise have poor manners and
think only of themselves, but they know not to use this term. They were
rather insistent about it, saying that it was like the word "kuronbo".
So I think that you, Akita, and you, Dwayne, are both wrong.
> Well the word 'baka-chon' is a discriminatory word to stupid people,
> perhaps that's why Peter Payne was so bothered.
Gee, Dwayne, you're awfully stupid to challenge a native speaker's word
(not mine, but my students'). You want to take the insults further, I
don't mind. I am not one to argue for PC, but on the other hand, do you
use the word 'nigger' in daily speech? You shouldn't because it's rude.
This goes for the word 'baka-chong'. I wouldn't even use it with respect
to you.
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Not many people go to Antarctica yet because it is under penguin rule.
- Hannah
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Dwayne Fujima
>Dwayne Fujima <tot...@gol.com> wrote:
>> Well the word 'baka-chon' is a discriminatory word to stupid people,
>> perhaps that's why Peter Payne was so bothered.
It has been brought to my attention that I was incorrect. I had thought
that the 'chon' part was the sound of the camera shutter. When I asked
my (Japanese) wife and my (Japanese) co-workers, they did not know the
origin of baka-chon, but had also no idea that it was a discriminatory
word. Still it was a hasty post on my part and for that I apologize.
Dwayne Fujima tot...@gol.com
Dwayne Fujima
>Aside from Kojien for the background of chonga- , interested parties might
>want to checkout Peter Constantine's "Japanese Street Slang" for the
>derivation of the suffix -chon.
>As an additional note , I have asked 3 Japanese persons whether "bakachon"
>is discriminatory and all 3 have answered in the affirmative. Two of those
>also stated that the derivation was not known to many Japanese and one of
>those had studied the Japanese language as a concentration and was certified
>in Japan to teach Japanese.
From Constantine's book.
"The original word was chon-gag, a traditional knotted hairstyle
worn by Korean boys and unmarried men
...
the word chon-gag became the accepted Korean term for bachelor.
...
These people [Koreans] brought with them a plethora of Korean
words that found their way into colloquial Japanese.
...
[Chonga] became one of the most popular slangy words in Japan
for the unmarried man."
I've read it over and over, and I still don't see the connotation that
'chon' in any of its definitions is derogatory to Koreans. I would
like to hear or read any more references that you or your Japanese
teachers can provide to support your claim that the use of 'bakachon'
is derogatory.
Dwayne Fujima