What kind of fish?
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Click...@aol.com
Nov 21, 2009, 10:49:41 PM11/21/09
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Hi Dean,
I would like to train a fish but am not sure which kind to get. For a first time fish trainer which would you suggest? I have lots of experience clicker training cats and dogs but have never worked with fish and would like to give it a try.
These are some I am considering and if you can give me any more information on them I would appreciate it. An Oscar...but I am worried he will outgrow my 20 gallon aquarium too quickly...a parrot fish...don't know anything about them but they are pretty! a goldfish...i was told by the pet store people that they were really dirty fish and hard to keep the tank clean and that i would have to "upgrade" to a larger tank in about 6 months...I understand that they produce more waste product but can't you keep the tank clean by water changes etc.?
I really am leaning toward a goldfish because they don't need heaters to keep them happy and I have seen your great goldfish so what do you think...do you think a 3 inch goldfish would grow so fast to need a tank upgrade in six months or is the pet store clerk wanting to sell more fish tanks? Would my goldfish be happy in a 20 gallon tank? I could upgrade to another tank but it may be a year before I could afford to do that.
And finally I saw an African cichlid called an electric blue or ahli. Pretty fish and I was told he would be happy by himself but would he be as trainable as a goldfish? I would need a heater for him and again would need to upgrade to a larger tank in about six months. Well, what do you think?
Ok, last question...sorry about so many questions but you are the best fish expert I know! How long does it take to train a fish? A month? Two? Do some species seem more trainable or learn faster than others? I am opening a new dog and cat training business and wanted to feature some small animals that have been clicker trained and thought a fish would be unique and might generate some interest in my training business! Thanks in advance!
woofs,
Suzanne Stover, CPDT-KA
Animal Behaviour Concepts
Savannah, Georgia
I would like to train a fish but am not sure which kind to get. For a first time fish trainer which would you suggest? I have lots of experience clicker training cats and dogs but have never worked with fish and would like to give it a try.
These are some I am considering and if you can give me any more information on them I would appreciate it. An Oscar...but I am worried he will outgrow my 20 gallon aquarium too quickly...a parrot fish...don't know anything about them but they are pretty! a goldfish...i was told by the pet store people that they were really dirty fish and hard to keep the tank clean and that i would have to "upgrade" to a larger tank in about 6 months...I understand that they produce more waste product but can't you keep the tank clean by water changes etc.?
I really am leaning toward a goldfish because they don't need heaters to keep them happy and I have seen your great goldfish so what do you think...do you think a 3 inch goldfish would grow so fast to need a tank upgrade in six months or is the pet store clerk wanting to sell more fish tanks? Would my goldfish be happy in a 20 gallon tank? I could upgrade to another tank but it may be a year before I could afford to do that.
And finally I saw an African cichlid called an electric blue or ahli. Pretty fish and I was told he would be happy by himself but would he be as trainable as a goldfish? I would need a heater for him and again would need to upgrade to a larger tank in about six months. Well, what do you think?
Ok, last question...sorry about so many questions but you are the best fish expert I know! How long does it take to train a fish? A month? Two? Do some species seem more trainable or learn faster than others? I am opening a new dog and cat training business and wanted to feature some small animals that have been clicker trained and thought a fish would be unique and might generate some interest in my training business! Thanks in advance!
woofs,
Suzanne Stover, CPDT-KA
Animal Behaviour Concepts
Savannah, Georgia
Dean Pomerleau
Nov 22, 2009, 11:15:04 AM11/22/09
to fish-sch...@googlegroups.com
Suzanne,
Welcome, and thanks for all the great questions! I'll take a crack at answering them, and I'm sure others on the list will chime in with stuff I miss :-).
> For a first time fish trainer which would you suggest?
I think your inclination towards a goldfish is on track. They are relatively easy to take care of, and very good learners.
> An Oscar...but I am worried he will outgrow my 20 gallon aquarium too quickly...
Yes - Oscars are very intelligent, but grow large very fast.
> a parrot fish...don't know anything about them but they are pretty!
A Parrot Cichlid are also very intelligent. We and others have had good success training them.
Any of these three species will eventually get too big for a 20gal tank, but if you start with a 2" goldfish it will be quite a while. Several years at least.
> i was told by the pet store people that they were really dirty fish and hard to keep the tank clean and that > i would have to "upgrade" to a larger tank in about 6 months...I understand that they produce more
Goldfish do make a mess, but by using two filters and weekly partial water changes, I don't find it to be a problem.
> do you think a 3 inch goldfish would grow so fast to need a tank upgrade in six months or is
> the pet store clerk wanting to sell more fish tanks?
From my experience, single 3" goldfish (or maybe 2) will be happy in a 20gal tank for much longer than six months. A year shouldn't be a problem.
> ... African cichlid called an electric blue or ahli. Pretty fish and I was told he would be happy by himself
> Do some species seem more trainable or learn faster than others?
Yes, there is variability, both between and within species. But I haven't found any fish that are easier to train than goldfish.
> ... thought a fish would be unique and might generate some interest in my training business!
Sounds like a great idea. Goldfish would have an advantage for this purpose, for several reasons. First, everyone can relate to them, and won't think you've picked some exotic fish that is particularly easy to train. Second, people generally think (mistakenly) that goldfish are quite dumb, so showing you can train them will impress people and make them think highly of your business.
Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions, and please let us know how it goes!
--Dean
Welcome, and thanks for all the great questions! I'll take a crack at answering them, and I'm sure others on the list will chime in with stuff I miss :-).
> For a first time fish trainer which would you suggest?
I think your inclination towards a goldfish is on track. They are relatively easy to take care of, and very good learners.
> An Oscar...but I am worried he will outgrow my 20 gallon aquarium too quickly...
Yes - Oscars are very intelligent, but grow large very fast.
> a parrot fish...don't know anything about them but they are pretty!
Any of these three species will eventually get too big for a 20gal tank, but if you start with a 2" goldfish it will be quite a while. Several years at least.
> i was told by the pet store people that they were really dirty fish and hard to keep the tank clean and that > i would have to "upgrade" to a larger tank in about 6 months...I understand that they produce more
> waste
product but can't you keep the tank clean by water changes etc.?
Goldfish do make a mess, but by using two filters and weekly partial water changes, I don't find it to be a problem.
> do you think a 3 inch goldfish would grow so fast to need a tank upgrade in six months or is
> the pet store clerk wanting to sell more fish tanks?
From my experience, single 3" goldfish (or maybe 2) will be happy in a 20gal tank for much longer than six months. A year shouldn't be a problem.
> ... African cichlid called an electric blue or ahli. Pretty fish and I was told he would be happy by himself
> but would he be as trainable as a goldfish?
I would need a heater for him and again would need to
> upgrade to a larger tank in about six months. Well, what do you think?
Others on the list have experience with African cichlids, and might be able to give some insights. My impression is they are super-intelligent, but can sometimes be shy, aggressive, and temperamental. So probably not the best fish for someone just starting training.> upgrade to a larger tank in about six months. Well, what do you think?
> How
long does it take to train a fish? A month? Two?
It depends on the fish (of course) and what you're trying to training them to do. Training them to swim through a hoop using the techniques described in the R2 kit typically takes between one and two weeks, sometimes even less, depending on the fish. But if you want your fish to swim through a hoop ON CUE (i.e. wait to swim through until you signal him/her with a light or other signal), as many clicker trainer folks do, will take longer. I haven't tried it, but hopefully others on the list can help.> Do some species seem more trainable or learn faster than others?
> ... thought a fish would be unique and might generate some interest in my training business!
Sounds like a great idea. Goldfish would have an advantage for this purpose, for several reasons. First, everyone can relate to them, and won't think you've picked some exotic fish that is particularly easy to train. Second, people generally think (mistakenly) that goldfish are quite dumb, so showing you can train them will impress people and make them think highly of your business.
Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions, and please let us know how it goes!
--Dean
Click...@aol.com
Nov 23, 2009, 8:32:04 AM11/23/09
to fish-sch...@googlegroups.com
Thank you so much Dean for your thorough and thoughtful replies!
I am glad you think a goldfish would work. And the other good point you made that I had not thought of was using a "common" goldfish instead of an exotic tropical fish so the general public can relate to this better and hopefully be inspired to train their own fish as well! That's a great point! And my motto has always been that "a mind is a terrible thing to waste!" even for a goldfish so all of our animals (dogs, cats, and fish) should receive schooling to improve mental stimulation and therefore create contentment in the animal!
Ok, so now that I have decided on a goldfish, can you explain about the two filters you use on your tank? Would I have one pump and then connect it to two filters, is that right? The water changes would be no problem. Do you use sand of gravel in the bottom of the tank or leave it bare?
Again, thanks for answering my questions and for having this great resource for people to go to for answers!
woofs,
Suzanne
I am glad you think a goldfish would work. And the other good point you made that I had not thought of was using a "common" goldfish instead of an exotic tropical fish so the general public can relate to this better and hopefully be inspired to train their own fish as well! That's a great point! And my motto has always been that "a mind is a terrible thing to waste!" even for a goldfish so all of our animals (dogs, cats, and fish) should receive schooling to improve mental stimulation and therefore create contentment in the animal!
Ok, so now that I have decided on a goldfish, can you explain about the two filters you use on your tank? Would I have one pump and then connect it to two filters, is that right? The water changes would be no problem. Do you use sand of gravel in the bottom of the tank or leave it bare?
Again, thanks for answering my questions and for having this great resource for people to go to for answers!
woofs,
Suzanne
Dean Pomerleau
Nov 23, 2009, 10:19:04 AM11/23/09
to fish-sch...@googlegroups.com
Suzanne,
I use two Aquaclear external filters (like this http://bit.ly/70cIFa) on my 20gal. I use gravel, since I think fish are happier with gravel, and the tank looks better. I use a siphon filter thingy (like this http://bit.ly/7YWO0d) to filter out the gravel when I do partial water changes. I also have the lights on a timer, so the tank is only lit for a few hours per day (the rest of the daylight hours it gets natural light). Together these keep the tank pretty sparkling.
--Dean
I use two Aquaclear external filters (like this http://bit.ly/70cIFa) on my 20gal. I use gravel, since I think fish are happier with gravel, and the tank looks better. I use a siphon filter thingy (like this http://bit.ly/7YWO0d) to filter out the gravel when I do partial water changes. I also have the lights on a timer, so the tank is only lit for a few hours per day (the rest of the daylight hours it gets natural light). Together these keep the tank pretty sparkling.
--Dean
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