Firebug Start Button in Firefox 4

[Honza (Jan Odvarko)]

http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/firebug/firebug-start-button-in-firefox-4/

Honza

[Andrea Dessì]

On 21 Dic, 16:34, "Honza (Jan Odvarko)" <odva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/firebug/firebug-start-button-in-fi...
>
> Honza

I would like to maintain the bottom-right icon in the bottom status
bar :)
just because the errors will appear there.

But I used to have the "inspect with firebug" personalized icon
near the addressbar, so I dont have to rightclick or F12 to start
seeking elements.

--
Andrea

[Jason Oster]

On Dec 21, 8:34 am, "Honza (Jan Odvarko)" <odva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/firebug/firebug-start-button-in-fi...
>
> Honza

+1

Admittedly, I'm on the "remove the status bar!" bandwagon, so this is
something I would like to see Firebug implement. Just a few concerns
about this;

When the Firebug icon is in the Firefox toolbar ...
1) will the icon still show an error count? (I don't mind *not*
having a visible count next to the icon, but having an error/warning
icon as a simple notification is fairly important.)
2) will the Firebug pane open at the top of the browser content
window? Similar to how the new developer console does now. (CTRL+Shift
+K)

[Honza (Jan Odvarko)]

On Dec 21, 5:17 pm, Jason Oster <parasy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 21, 8:34 am, "Honza (Jan Odvarko)" <odva...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/firebug/firebug-start-button-in-fi...
>
> > Honza
>
> +1
>
> Admittedly, I'm on the "remove the status bar!" bandwagon, so this is
> something I would like to see Firebug implement.  Just a few concerns
> about this;
>
> When the Firebug icon is in the Firefox toolbar ...
> 1) will the icon still show an error count?  (I don't mind *not*
> having a visible count next to the icon, but having an error/warning
> icon as a simple notification is fairly important.)

Yes, there is a proposal to put a little badge (a-la iPhone app icons)
on it. Could be just a small red error icon of even a red circle with
the # of errors in it.

> 2) will the Firebug pane open at the top of the browser content
> window?  Similar to how the new developer console does now. (CTRL+Shift
> +K)

Good point, so far we haven't been thinking about this.

Honza

[angelus]

On 21 dec, 16:34, "Honza (Jan Odvarko)" <odva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/firebug/firebug-start-button-in-fi...
>
> Honza

Why not add the option to the Firefox menu button. There is a submenu
for Web Developer. It would fit perfect there. Don't like a browser
which is bloated with buttons here and there.

Still I think the best place to show information is in the status bar
or add-on bar is it is called today. A notification bar that popups
can be an idea. If there is something wrong with a page you can get a
notification in the bottom of the screen. As example take a look at
Google Chrome. When you hover or load an URL you get a notification
bar at the bottom. The trick is to show only the information you need,
this way you don't get a bloated window with lot's of buttons.

[John J Barton]

On Dec 21, 3:24 pm, angelus <jan.valkenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21 dec, 16:34, "Honza (Jan Odvarko)" <odva...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/firebug/firebug-start-button-in-fi...
>
> > Honza
>
> Why not add the option to the Firefox menu button. There is a submenu
> for Web Developer. It would fit perfect there. Don't like a browser
> which is bloated with buttons here and there.

We plan to move the current Firefox > Tools > Firebug entry in the web
developer menu.

>
> Still I think the best place to show information is in the status bar
> or add-on bar is it is called today. A notification bar that popups
> can be an idea. If there is something wrong with a page you can get a
> notification in the bottom of the screen. As example take a look at
> Google Chrome. When you hover or load an URL you get a notification
> bar at the bottom. The trick is to show only the information you need,
> this way you don't get a bloated window with lot's of buttons.

I don't understand how the example you reference helps here. What
signal could we use to magically discover that a developer wants the
firebug button?

jjb

[Simon Speich]

I'm conservative and for keeping the start button in the lower right
corner. That whole minimalistic movement is nice but it should not
interfere with what's just practical.

[alfonsoml]

One of the reasons why I don't like Chrome is due to its lack of UI.
Why should Firefox mimic that?

[./cewood]

+1

I'd like to see it integrated into the toolbar icon or as an optional/
extra toolbar icon that has the enhanced function as opposed to the
normal one.

I have grown on the idea of not having the statusbar/addons-bar
visible in Firefox4 and I really like the extra bit of screen real
estate :)

[Sebo]

> > Why not add the option to the Firefox menu button. There is a submenu
> > for Web Developer. It would fit perfect there. Don't like a browser
> > which is bloated with buttons here and there.
>
> We plan to move the current Firefox > Tools > Firebug entry in the web
> developer menu.

That's definitely the right place for it.

> > Still I think the best place to show information is in the status bar
> > or add-on bar is it is called today. A notification bar that popups
> > can be an idea. If there is something wrong with a page you can get a
> > notification in the bottom of the screen. As example take a look at
> > Google Chrome. When you hover or load an URL you get a notification
> > bar at the bottom. The trick is to show only the information you need,
> > this way you don't get a bloated window with lot's of buttons.
>
> I don't understand how the example you reference helps here. What
> signal could we use to magically discover that a developer wants the
> firebug button?
>
> jjb

John, what angelus meant is to show an info popup after the page
loaded saying "3 errors". One problem would arise here, because the
popup would cover a part of the page. So it has to disappear after a
short time, which means the information is not visible anymore after
that little time span.

> I'm conservative and for keeping the start button in the lower right
> corner. That whole minimalistic movement is nice but it should not
> interfere with what's just practical.

That's also my preferation, but as we see in all these comments
everyone likes it different.

So I'd suggest:
- integrate the Firebug Menu into the Firefox Web Developer Menu
- keep the Firebug icon in the addon bar, but don't show the bar by
default
- show the toolbar button by default
- either don't show the error count anymore (in case the addon bar is
hidden) or replace the Firebug icon by the error count as it was
mentioned before (though we'll get in trouble, if a page has a high
number of errors, because the button width will change)
- give the user the possibility to decide whether to open Firebug on
top or on bottom (probably on top by default when the addon bar is
hidden to minimize the mouse movements, even when I wouldn't like to
have Firebug on top)

One last idea:
We could also move the icon to a popup (when the addon bar is hidden)
which would be shown as soon as the user moves the cursor to the lower
right corner of a page and would disappear when he moves away again.
Doing so would reduce the interferance with the page contents to a
minimum and we wouldn't break the current behavior (for all users,
which are used to click on the Firebug icon in the lower right
corner). A disadvantage would be, that Firebug would initially be
hidden and therefore people could ask where it's gone.

[John J Barton]

On Dec 23, 5:29 am, Sebo <sebastianzart...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > Why not add the option to the Firefox menu button. There is a submenu
> > > for Web Developer. It would fit perfect there. Don't like a browser
> > > which is bloated with buttons here and there.
>
> > We plan to move the current Firefox > Tools > Firebug entry in the web
> > developer menu.
>
> That's definitely the right place for it.
>
> > > Still I think the best place to show information is in the status bar
> > > or add-on bar is it is called today. A notification bar that popups
> > > can be an idea. If there is something wrong with a page you can get a
> > > notification in the bottom of the screen. As example take a look at
> > > Google Chrome. When you hover or load an URL you get a notification
> > > bar at the bottom. The trick is to show only the information you need,
> > > this way you don't get a bloated window with lot's of buttons.
>
> > I don't understand how the example you reference helps here. What
> > signal could we use to magically discover that a developer wants the
> > firebug button?
>
> > jjb
>
> John, what angelus meant is to show an info popup after the page
> loaded saying "3 errors". One problem would arise here, because the
> popup would cover a part of the page. So it has to disappear after a
> short time, which means the information is not visible anymore after
> that little time span.

But the problem we have to solve is not "how do we show error counts
when Firebug active". The problem we have to solve is "how does a user
activate Firebug".

>
> > I'm conservative and for keeping the start button in the lower right
> > corner. That whole minimalistic movement is nice but it should not
> > interfere with what's just practical.
>
> That's also my preferation, but as we see in all these comments
> everyone likes it different.

Having lots of input like we have seen here is very helpful. However,
we cannot make decisions solely on users preferences. We also have to
consider the impact of our decisions on users who did not know to give
input, users who have not yet installed Firebug, and on the
development team which has to support users.

>
> So I'd suggest:
> - integrate the Firebug Menu into the Firefox Web Developer Menu

Yes! I think Honza already did that one!

> - keep the Firebug icon in the addon bar, but don't show the bar by
> default

In my opinion, the Firebug button must be visible by default.

> - show the toolbar button by default

I assume you mean "move the button to the top of the browser." I think
this could be an option but not the default for 1.7. We have a lot of
experience with the activation button in its current location. We know
it has several benefits and some draw backs. We have no experience
with the button at the top. We have no idea what bad things can
happen. For example, what happens when the user installs 3 addons? 16
addons? How about book mark options? Does it work on Linux? Etc. After
FF4 is out and we understand these issues, we can reconsider based on
more complete information.

> - either don't show the error count anymore (in case the addon bar is

Based on user feedback I believe this is not an option: the error
count is used by lots of people. If anything I think we should be
expanding it to include more information in a compact form.

> hidden) or replace the Firebug icon by the error count as it was
> mentioned before (though we'll get in trouble, if a page has a high
> number of errors, because the button width will change)

We can just have a red alert for >99 errors: (!) .

> - give the user the possibility to decide whether to open Firebug on
> top or on bottom (probably on top by default when the addon bar is
> hidden to minimize the mouse movements, even when I wouldn't like to
> have Firebug on top)

I think the default should be the bottom for 1.7. The entire FF4.0 UI
is a gigantic experiment which may or may not become the One True Way.
Let's see that experiment play out without also subjecting our users
to another experiment.

>
> One last idea:
> We could also move the icon to a popup (when the addon bar is hidden)
> which would be shown as soon as the user moves the cursor to the lower
> right corner of a page and would disappear when he moves away again.
> Doing so would reduce the interferance with the page contents to a
> minimum and we wouldn't break the current behavior (for all users,
> which are used to click on the Firebug icon in the lower right
> corner). A disadvantage would be, that Firebug would initially be
> hidden and therefore people could ask where it's gone.

I think this is a great idea, but just phrase it as an "auto-hide
option". So the default is that the button is visible, but it can be
set to auto-hide by the users who want it.

jjb

[Steven Roussey]

> - keep the Firebug icon in the addon bar, but don't show the bar by
> default

In my opinion, the Firebug button must be visible by default.

Yes, though I think it should be visible *somewhere* by default. I'm not sure we are doing any favors by forcing a Firefox 3.6 UI onto the Firefox 4.0 UI. 

> - show the toolbar button by default

I assume you mean "move the button to the top of the browser." I think
this could be an option but not the default for 1.7.  We have a lot of
experience with the activation button in its current location. We know
it has several benefits and some draw backs. We have no experience
with  the button at the top. We have no idea what bad things can
happen. For example, what happens when the user installs 3 addons? 16
addons? How about book mark options? Does it work on Linux?

Well, Pedro has some experience since this is exactly what is done in Firebug for Chrome.

BTW: We could add an option to the menu the button has to "move to bottom" (which would force open the bottom bar). And visa-versa.

Based on user feedback I believe this is not an option: the error
count is used by lots of people. If anything I think we should be
expanding it to include more information in a compact form.

Does FF4 have a native badge system like Chrome? 

> hidden) or replace the Firebug icon by the error count as it was
> mentioned before (though we'll get in trouble, if a page has a high
> number of errors, because the button width will change)

We can just have a red alert for >99 errors: (!) .

1K! Yikes! 

[John J Barton]

I just want to point out that the "addon bar" in FF4.0 is explicitly
designed for addons, it sits across the bottom of the UI, and
Firebug's 1.7 button code for FF4.0 supports that addon bar.

In the current version of Firebug 1.7 the button is still set to
overlay the status bar. This is also the recommended solution for
migration from FF3.6 to FF4.0: the status bar in FF4.0 is available
for addon buttons and it lives inside of the addon bar. Firefox team
will support the styling and UI control for this case.

So in our discussions about moving the Firebug button we should be
thinking of it as moving the button out of the recommended FF4.0
location and into another area whose exact properties are not known.

jjb

[darth-...@gmx.de]

On 21 Dez., 17:17, Jason Oster <parasy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2) will the Firebug pane open at the top of the browser content
> window?  Similar to how the new developer console does now. (CTRL+Shift
> +K)

lets hope it won't :)