Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on
the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing
routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried
everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top
of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors
was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the
years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers.
Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change
in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been
able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools.
Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech
browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development
effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the
right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM
to contribute to that work.
In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the
investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he
is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at
Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to
port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is
naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole
benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will
also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
> Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on
> the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing
> routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried
> everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top
> of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors
> was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the
> years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
> Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers.
> Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change
> in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been
> able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools.
> Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech
> browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development
> effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the
> right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM
> to contribute to that work.
> In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the
> investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he
> is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at
> Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to
> port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is
> naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole
> benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will
> also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:26 AM, John J Barton <johnjbar...@johnjbarton.com
> wrote: > Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on > the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing > routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
I'm sorry to hear that, but congrats on the new gig and best of luck! I can't wait to see what develops!
> Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on > the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing > routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried > everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top > of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors > was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the > years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
> Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers. > Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change > in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been > able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools. > Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech > browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development > effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the > right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM > to contribute to that work.
> In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the > investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he > is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at > Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to > port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is > naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole > benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will > also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
This comes quite unexpectedly to me. With you the FWG loses a great man leading the development for a long time and pushing it forward. Now there will be a big gap, which can hopefully be filled by other talented programmers.
In any case I hope you will enjoy the work for Google and wish you all the best for your future!
> Datum: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 11:26:27 -0700 (PDT) > Von: John J Barton <johnjbar...@johnjbarton.com> > An: Firebug Working Group <firebug-working-group@googlegroups.com> > Betreff: [FWG] Moving on > Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on > the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing > routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried > everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top > of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors > was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the > years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
> Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers. > Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change > in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been > able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools. > Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech > browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development > effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the > right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM > to contribute to that work.
> In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the > investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he > is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at > Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to > port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is > naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole > benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will > also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
John, firstly: congratulations on your new gig! I'm sure you'll do great things with your deep knowledge of debugging at the Googleplex.
I am sad that you're leaving Firebug though.
John was single-handedly responsible for resurrecting Firebug from abandonment. You brought some interesting features, invented Chromebug and built a whole community around it along the way. These are no small feats. Though I didn't always agree with some of your product decisions, the ongoing success of Firebug is a testament to your dedication and talents.
Best of luck, John, and if you can, let us know how you make out. We'll keep a chair open for you if you want to come back. :)
> Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on > the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing > routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried > everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top > of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors > was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the > years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
> Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers. > Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change > in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been > able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools. > Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech > browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development > effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the > right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM > to contribute to that work.
> In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the > investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he > is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at > Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to > port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is > naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole > benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will > also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
> Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on
> the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing
> routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried
> everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top
> of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors
> was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the
> years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
> Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers.
> Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change
> in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been
> able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools.
> Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech
> browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development
> effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the
> right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM
> to contribute to that work.
> In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the
> investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he
> is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at
> Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to
> port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is
> naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole
> benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will
> also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
>Now there will be a big gap, which can hopefully be filled by other talented programmers.
and that gap will certainly take more than a few talented programmers.
anyway guess you'd be able to do way more cool stuff working on top of chrome devtools, than doing maintenance work for firebug. and QueryPoint debugging is a really cool stuff, that i am looking forward to use.
hope you'll be back soon, when firebug will again be cutting edge, and suitable for research.
Congrats on the new project (I have a list of requests to get Illuminations running on Chrome -- expect to hear from me soon...). Perhaps with you at Google, we can get some closer collaboration going on between the two projects. I have always (as you know) liked the idea of merging them, or at least getting them on the same page or far as protocol, etc. Having someone in the same timezone will be a great help. ;)
That said, and wishes aside, there is no escaping that you will be taking a large portion of the life out of Firebug as you leave. With Mozilla having their plans, I'm not sure what the long term future will be for Firebug. But thank god for Honza and all the time the two of you worked together. And the rest of us will try and pick up some slack, but no one knows it the way you do, and you will be sorely missed.
Steven Roussey
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:26 AM, John J Barton <johnjbar...@johnjbarton.com
> wrote: > Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on > the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing > routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried > everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top > of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors > was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the > years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
> Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers. > Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change > in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been > able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools. > Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech > browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development > effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the > right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM > to contribute to that work.
> In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the > investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he > is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at > Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to > port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is > naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole > benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will > also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
John, I wish you the best on your new adventure. It was very nice working with you. I have learned important things with you over these years, and your work and words have inspired me to move forward with the idea of merging the Firebug and Lite worlds.
At the same time I cannot hide that I'm sad that you're leaving the FWG. This open source thing is really strange sometimes. Even though we haven't met in real life I feel kinda attached to you guys in the FWG. So I feel like not only loosing a great leader and developer, but also a good fellow.
Thank you very much for everything you have done!
Pedro Simonetti.
2011/7/17 John J Barton <johnjbar...@johnjbarton.com>
> Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on > the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing > routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> Deciding to make this move was difficult. As you may know, I tried > everything I could think of to continue research on dev tools on top > of Firebug. Working on Firebug with this great group of contributors > was fun and I believe we had a tremendous impact on the Web over the > years when Firebug was the only decent Web debugger.
> Now all of the browsers have (or will soon have) their own debuggers. > Basing next gen work on Firebug is not practical. The pace of change > in browsers is too fast for our team size. Firebug hasn't really been > able to keep up with Firefox, let alone compete with other tools. > Moreover, the shift from desktop to mobile and from one high-tech > browser (Firefox) to three or more requires additional development > effort. I think our current drive to re-architect Firebug is on the > right track, but I could not obtain another year of support from IBM > to contribute to that work.
> In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the > investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he > is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at > Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to > port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is > naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole > benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will > also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
> Tomorrow, Monday, I start work on next gen Web dev tools at Google on > the Chrome browser team. Consequently I will no longer be contributing > routinely to the development and maintenance of Firebug for Firefox.
> ... > In moving to Google my first priority will be to complete the > investigation of QueryPoint debugging with Salman Mirghasemi while he > is still in his PhD. Other work will depend upon what I learn at > Google, but I hope to be able to help if someone from Firebug wants to > port to the Chrome remote debug protocol. While the Chrome team is > naturally focused on tools for their browser, Google as a whole > benefits from dev-tools improvements on all platforms. Thus I will > also be looking for other opportunities to work with you.
> In any case I wish you the best, > jjb
Best of luck John, Google is very lucky to have you.
PS, Do you think there is any chance for synergy between Chrome RDP, Firefox RDP, and Crossfire? If we could come up with at least a common base then it would be possible to write tools and tests across all of them which would be fantastic, especially for mobile applications.
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 7:29 AM, David Rees <d...@ubiqsoft.com> wrote:
> PS, Do you think there is any chance for synergy between Chrome RDP, Firefox > RDP, and Crossfire? If we could come up with at least a common base then it > would be possible to write tools and tests across all of them which would be > fantastic, especially for mobile applications.
No, I see no chance that the folks writing the servers for remote debug protocol will voluntarily adopt a common protocol. Each client that wants to work cross browser will have to write for each browser.
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 7:29 AM, David Rees<d...@ubiqsoft.com> wrote: >> PS, Do you think there is any chance for synergy between Chrome RDP, Firefox >> RDP, and Crossfire? If we could come up with at least a common base then it >> would be possible to write tools and tests across all of them which would be >> fantastic, especially for mobile applications. > No, I see no chance that the folks writing the servers for remote > debug protocol will voluntarily adopt a common protocol. Each client > that wants to work cross browser will have to write for each browser.
