RE: FellsDOG - 3 new messages in 3 topics - digest
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Mary McKeon
Mar 16, 2009, 9:24:52 AM3/16/09
to fell...@googlegroups.com
I must have been at the park at the same time you were. I remember hearing a squeaky toy, although I missed the situation you describe.
I obviously agree with you that the other dog's owner should have stepped in and dealt with any bad behavior. It is an owner's responsibility to deal with their own dog. Especially in such a busy place. It's unfortunate that the owner didn't step in. I have to admit though that I was very surprised to hear a squeaky toy. A squeaky toy is a high value toy for a lot of dogs and I do think it's a mistake to bring one to the dog park. A lot of dog parks and doggy daycares have a ban on toys because they can incite resource guarding and aggression.
I understand you being upset. I really do. I'd be very unhappy if my dog was attacked and the other dog's owner didn't jump in immediately and stop it. I'm not trying to downplay that at all. I just think it's not worth the risk to bring toys or treats to the dog park.
I also feel the need to say that a dog being toy aggressive with another dog does not mean that the dog would react the same way with a human. Again, not excusing the situation, just saying that one does not necessarily mean the other.
I hope you take these comments in the way in which they are intended.
M
> After throwing the ball a few times, and playing a bit of tug-of-war
> with me, a white husky, took my dog's ball and walked away. When my
> dog went to retrieve it, the dog growled and my dog backed off. After
> numerous attempts to fetch the ball from the husky, my dog backed off.
> And, my dog is NOT one to back off. I was hoping the owner might speak
> up and toss the ball back to me, or take the toy away from her dog.
> Then, when the husky wasn't looking, my dog went to grab his ball
> back. And the husky jumped on top of him, growling and biting at my
> dog, in attack mode. My dog went into complete submissive mode and
> shrieked. The owner of the husky was slow to pull her dog off, and
> told me that I "shouldn't bring squeaky toys to the dogpark". BULL
> SHIT.
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I obviously agree with you that the other dog's owner should have stepped in and dealt with any bad behavior. It is an owner's responsibility to deal with their own dog. Especially in such a busy place. It's unfortunate that the owner didn't step in. I have to admit though that I was very surprised to hear a squeaky toy. A squeaky toy is a high value toy for a lot of dogs and I do think it's a mistake to bring one to the dog park. A lot of dog parks and doggy daycares have a ban on toys because they can incite resource guarding and aggression.
I understand you being upset. I really do. I'd be very unhappy if my dog was attacked and the other dog's owner didn't jump in immediately and stop it. I'm not trying to downplay that at all. I just think it's not worth the risk to bring toys or treats to the dog park.
I also feel the need to say that a dog being toy aggressive with another dog does not mean that the dog would react the same way with a human. Again, not excusing the situation, just saying that one does not necessarily mean the other.
I hope you take these comments in the way in which they are intended.
M
> After throwing the ball a few times, and playing a bit of tug-of-war
> with me, a white husky, took my dog's ball and walked away. When my
> dog went to retrieve it, the dog growled and my dog backed off. After
> numerous attempts to fetch the ball from the husky, my dog backed off.
> And, my dog is NOT one to back off. I was hoping the owner might speak
> up and toss the ball back to me, or take the toy away from her dog.
> Then, when the husky wasn't looking, my dog went to grab his ball
> back. And the husky jumped on top of him, growling and biting at my
> dog, in attack mode. My dog went into complete submissive mode and
> shrieked. The owner of the husky was slow to pull her dog off, and
> told me that I "shouldn't bring squeaky toys to the dogpark". BULL
> SHIT.
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luvta...@yahoo.com
Mar 24, 2009, 4:13:23 PM3/24/09
to Fells Dog Owner Group
I agree with you Mary I was also there that day and actually saw it
happen....I'm not writing to take sides but the toy did make "noise"
and from my experience that always starts something. I am also
familiar with that husky and he is not that type of dog. I believe the
situation had both of you shook up and defensive over your dogs. The
Sheepfold is a wonderful place for everyone to go and not a place for
favorite toys or squeaky toys. If I see the owner I will pass along
the message, however I think some thought should be used with everyone
using the park, for people love their dogs to interact and then get
caught up talking to one another, so to say she wasn't paying
attention is a little unfair for I'm sure everyone there is the same
way.
On Mar 16, 11:43 am, brobb <betsyr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I should also add this is not aimed at you, Mary. I fully see your
> point, and I will think again about toys, if I go back to the Fells.
> I just came back from the vet's office, and am still very heated about
> this situation, obviously. My apologies if it seemed aimed at you in
> any way. It's aimed at the folks who will never understand
> responsibility, sadly. I suppose I'm just using this as a venue to
> vent my frustrations.
>
> But, in all seriousness, if you do see the owner of the white husky,
> "Sam", please please please pass this message along.
>
> On Mar 16, 11:32 am, brobb <betsyr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Mary,
>
> > I appreciate your opinion, and I see where you are coming from. I
> > think you've got a point, but I don't think a toy is the root cause of
> > this situation.
>
> > I didn't have a squeaky toy, I had a plastic soccer ball attached to a
> > rope, and was told "not to bring a squeaky toy" to the park.
>
> > I'm trying to make the point, that if you are aware your dog becomes
> > aggressive over toys, it is your responsibility to keep an eye on your
> > dog, and take the toy away, or leave a situation where toys exist. I
> > had NO IDEA the dog was aggressive over toys. I've been at the park
> > often, and watched my dog, and many others play with sticks, tennis
> > balls, etc. I constantly see people with those sticks that make tennis
> > balls be tossed far and high into the air. In my opinion, a "squeaky
> > toy" shouldn't be viewed any differently. When I saw the dog take my
> > dog's toy I didn't say anything because I want to my dog to share. I'd
> > like to see him play with his toy with other dogs. Had I known
> > otherwise, I would have been that person who can't play well in the
> > sandbox and said "Excuse me, your dog took my dog's toy, can I have it
> > back?" and walked away. I'm not the owner of the white husky, how am
> > I supposed to know he's aggressive with toys?
>
> > Just to define aggression means to me, I'm speaking in terms of
> > knarled lips, hair risen, jumping on top of other dogs biting at them
> > fiercely, and not getting off when someone is screaming "stop!".
>
> > And, no I don't think it would be any different with a child. If a
> > dog is aggressive over a toy with another dog, which this husky
> > obviously was, how are we supposed to know what else they're
> > aggressive over? I'm not saying this dog (or any other dog that has
> > aggressive tendencies) is a beast, or would intentionally hurt a
> > child, a biker, or whomever. But, I am saying that it was the owner's
> > responsibility to watch her dog, and step into the situation if she
> > saw her dog take a ball. She could have easily said "My dog doesn't
> > play well with toys. Could you please play somewhere else?" I would
> > have gladly left the situation. I don't have a backyard, and my dog
> > loves to run and chase after a ball. I would have gladly walked away,
> > and found another area to play. Had I not, then it would have been my
> > fault for putting my dog and myself in such a situation.
>
> > Frankly, I can understand why there is such an issue surrounding areas
> > such as the Fells. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE dogs. I think they
> > deserve lots of love and attention, and need lots of exercise. A
> > tired dog is a happy dog. But, I can also understand people are
> > scared of them, and from an incident such as yesterday's I can
> > understand why. The dog was scary when he jumped on my dog. I didn't
> > want to reach into the fight in fear of being bitten myself. How are
> > we supposed to defend dog parks when situations like this happen and
> > an owner blames it on a toy? It's absolutely ridiculous.
>
> > Removing a toy from a situation will not resolve an issue such as
> > this. Owners need to watch their dogs. They should alert others if
> > they know their dog doesn't play well with toys, or with smaller dogs,
> > or whatever, or whomever. They need to take responsibility. Put the
> > dog on a leash. Walk the dog up a path for 5 minutes. Tell the other
> > owner he doesn't play well with toys. But, don't stand around and
> > watch your dog take another dog's toy away knowing it gets aggressive
> > over them, and then blame it on the other owner for bringing a toy to
> > the park. This could have easily been prevented; however it wasn't
> > and my dog has to suffer because of it. He LOVES playing with other
> > dogs, and the Fells offers such a great opportunity to do that. But,
> > if owners aren't going to watch their dogs, or not take ownership of
> > them, then that's not fair for other dogs or for people such as
> > myself.
>
> > My dog losing a great opportunity to socialize and release lots of
> > energy. He couldn't walk all last night because he has a gash in his
> > front right foot from the other dog. Luckily he's walking better this
> > morning, but he needs to be put on antibiotics and stay in quarantine
> > while he recovers. Is this fair? No.
>
> > It's not about a squeaky toy. It's about ownership and
> > responsibility. And some people just need to realize that before they
> > go to the park. And if you know the owner of the white husky, "Sam",
> > please tell her.
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®.http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TX...
happen....I'm not writing to take sides but the toy did make "noise"
and from my experience that always starts something. I am also
familiar with that husky and he is not that type of dog. I believe the
situation had both of you shook up and defensive over your dogs. The
Sheepfold is a wonderful place for everyone to go and not a place for
favorite toys or squeaky toys. If I see the owner I will pass along
the message, however I think some thought should be used with everyone
using the park, for people love their dogs to interact and then get
caught up talking to one another, so to say she wasn't paying
attention is a little unfair for I'm sure everyone there is the same
way.
On Mar 16, 11:43 am, brobb <betsyr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I should also add this is not aimed at you, Mary. I fully see your
> point, and I will think again about toys, if I go back to the Fells.
> I just came back from the vet's office, and am still very heated about
> this situation, obviously. My apologies if it seemed aimed at you in
> any way. It's aimed at the folks who will never understand
> responsibility, sadly. I suppose I'm just using this as a venue to
> vent my frustrations.
>
> But, in all seriousness, if you do see the owner of the white husky,
> "Sam", please please please pass this message along.
>
> On Mar 16, 11:32 am, brobb <betsyr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Mary,
>
> > I appreciate your opinion, and I see where you are coming from. I
> > think you've got a point, but I don't think a toy is the root cause of
> > this situation.
>
> > I didn't have a squeaky toy, I had a plastic soccer ball attached to a
> > rope, and was told "not to bring a squeaky toy" to the park.
>
> > I'm trying to make the point, that if you are aware your dog becomes
> > aggressive over toys, it is your responsibility to keep an eye on your
> > dog, and take the toy away, or leave a situation where toys exist. I
> > had NO IDEA the dog was aggressive over toys. I've been at the park
> > often, and watched my dog, and many others play with sticks, tennis
> > balls, etc. I constantly see people with those sticks that make tennis
> > balls be tossed far and high into the air. In my opinion, a "squeaky
> > toy" shouldn't be viewed any differently. When I saw the dog take my
> > dog's toy I didn't say anything because I want to my dog to share. I'd
> > like to see him play with his toy with other dogs. Had I known
> > otherwise, I would have been that person who can't play well in the
> > sandbox and said "Excuse me, your dog took my dog's toy, can I have it
> > back?" and walked away. I'm not the owner of the white husky, how am
> > I supposed to know he's aggressive with toys?
>
> > Just to define aggression means to me, I'm speaking in terms of
> > knarled lips, hair risen, jumping on top of other dogs biting at them
> > fiercely, and not getting off when someone is screaming "stop!".
>
> > And, no I don't think it would be any different with a child. If a
> > dog is aggressive over a toy with another dog, which this husky
> > obviously was, how are we supposed to know what else they're
> > aggressive over? I'm not saying this dog (or any other dog that has
> > aggressive tendencies) is a beast, or would intentionally hurt a
> > child, a biker, or whomever. But, I am saying that it was the owner's
> > responsibility to watch her dog, and step into the situation if she
> > saw her dog take a ball. She could have easily said "My dog doesn't
> > play well with toys. Could you please play somewhere else?" I would
> > have gladly left the situation. I don't have a backyard, and my dog
> > loves to run and chase after a ball. I would have gladly walked away,
> > and found another area to play. Had I not, then it would have been my
> > fault for putting my dog and myself in such a situation.
>
> > Frankly, I can understand why there is such an issue surrounding areas
> > such as the Fells. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE dogs. I think they
> > deserve lots of love and attention, and need lots of exercise. A
> > tired dog is a happy dog. But, I can also understand people are
> > scared of them, and from an incident such as yesterday's I can
> > understand why. The dog was scary when he jumped on my dog. I didn't
> > want to reach into the fight in fear of being bitten myself. How are
> > we supposed to defend dog parks when situations like this happen and
> > an owner blames it on a toy? It's absolutely ridiculous.
>
> > Removing a toy from a situation will not resolve an issue such as
> > this. Owners need to watch their dogs. They should alert others if
> > they know their dog doesn't play well with toys, or with smaller dogs,
> > or whatever, or whomever. They need to take responsibility. Put the
> > dog on a leash. Walk the dog up a path for 5 minutes. Tell the other
> > owner he doesn't play well with toys. But, don't stand around and
> > watch your dog take another dog's toy away knowing it gets aggressive
> > over them, and then blame it on the other owner for bringing a toy to
> > the park. This could have easily been prevented; however it wasn't
> > and my dog has to suffer because of it. He LOVES playing with other
> > dogs, and the Fells offers such a great opportunity to do that. But,
> > if owners aren't going to watch their dogs, or not take ownership of
> > them, then that's not fair for other dogs or for people such as
> > myself.
>
> > My dog losing a great opportunity to socialize and release lots of
> > energy. He couldn't walk all last night because he has a gash in his
> > front right foot from the other dog. Luckily he's walking better this
> > morning, but he needs to be put on antibiotics and stay in quarantine
> > while he recovers. Is this fair? No.
>
> > It's not about a squeaky toy. It's about ownership and
> > responsibility. And some people just need to realize that before they
> > go to the park. And if you know the owner of the white husky, "Sam",
> > please tell her.
> > > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®.http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TX...
Message has been deleted
luvta...@yahoo.com
Mar 25, 2009, 8:32:48 PM3/25/09
to Fells Dog Owner Group
Well I disagree and lots of places would agree since they have a "no
squeaky toy" rule. I am not here to argue with you just put my two
sense in.You are defiantly going overboard and I now view you as a
dangerous dog owner for you don't seem to know much about dogs. I am
not implying that the other owner isn't at fault but your past few
postings are based on anger not reason. At this point I feel bad for
the other owner for I'm sure if it was my dog I would not want to deal
with you either. I hope for you and your dogs sake you can move on
from this. I hope your dog gets better soon so he can continue to play
at the park. but I assure you that dog will not be the only one yours
has trouble with if you continue to bring it's favorite toy/squeaky
toy, and I am sorry for that. I apologize if I upset you I understand
> luvtaski - I believe I sent you my post by accident. Sorry.
>
> My point I meant to post is that
> a) it doesn't matter if it's a squeaky toy, tennis ball, or piece of
> food, the dog is aggressive over it. Dogs aren't aggressive over
> something just once, and never again. This is obviously an aggressive
> dog, and I was not the only one to speak my mind at the park that
> day. The owner should have told me this, walked away with the dog, or
> whatever. But, definitely don't blame it on a damn toy. It's not the
> issue.
> b) It's ignorant and naive to say "it's just not that kind of dog".
> Dogs are animals and we can't predict what they'll do. I can't say
> that about my dog. I'd like to think he is, but I can't. Many an
> owner has said that about their dog, and guess what? The next day it's
> in the newspaper for attacking the kid next door. (Granted, there are
> plenty of mild-mannered dogs in the world, obviously. But, to say
> such a general statement about a dog that just ATTACKED my dog. Are
> you being serious?)
> c) Regardless if the dog is aggressive or not, take responsibility for
> your dog, and watch it at the park. May I remind you that we are all
> technically breaking the law by letting our dogs off leash at the
> park. We should be grateful that we still have this benefit, and we
> should not take advantage of what is given to us. If we can't take
> care of our own dogs at the park by picking up their poop, ensuring
> their and other dogs' safety, ensuring other park-goers' safety, then
> we shouldn't have the ability to take them there at all. Yes, taking
> the dog to the park can be a social event, but that doesn't mean you
> take your eyes off your dog, or shift your lack of ownership and
> responsibility on a chew toy.
> d) I'm still insanely pissed over this issue because my dog is now in
> quarantine because some jerk didn't watch their dog, or tell me he's
> aggressive over toys when I was in plain view of her and her dog. So,
> if you disagree with me on any of this, don't bother responding to me,
> because it makes absolutely no difference what your (or my) opinion
> is. Why don't you go ask your local animal control officer or the DCR
> their opinion on toys at the dog park? Ten bucks says they'll have
> the same response. It's your responsibility - take care of your own
> damn dog!!! Especially if you know it's aggressive.
>
> On Mar 24, 4:13 pm, "luvtask...@yahoo.com" <luvtask...@yahoo.com>
> ...
>
> read more »
squeaky toy" rule. I am not here to argue with you just put my two
sense in.You are defiantly going overboard and I now view you as a
dangerous dog owner for you don't seem to know much about dogs. I am
not implying that the other owner isn't at fault but your past few
postings are based on anger not reason. At this point I feel bad for
the other owner for I'm sure if it was my dog I would not want to deal
with you either. I hope for you and your dogs sake you can move on
from this. I hope your dog gets better soon so he can continue to play
at the park. but I assure you that dog will not be the only one yours
has trouble with if you continue to bring it's favorite toy/squeaky
toy, and I am sorry for that. I apologize if I upset you I understand
where you are coming from.
On Mar 25, 6:49 pm, brobb <betsyr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> luvtaski - I believe I sent you my post by accident. Sorry.
>
> My point I meant to post is that
> a) it doesn't matter if it's a squeaky toy, tennis ball, or piece of
> food, the dog is aggressive over it. Dogs aren't aggressive over
> something just once, and never again. This is obviously an aggressive
> dog, and I was not the only one to speak my mind at the park that
> day. The owner should have told me this, walked away with the dog, or
> whatever. But, definitely don't blame it on a damn toy. It's not the
> issue.
> b) It's ignorant and naive to say "it's just not that kind of dog".
> Dogs are animals and we can't predict what they'll do. I can't say
> that about my dog. I'd like to think he is, but I can't. Many an
> owner has said that about their dog, and guess what? The next day it's
> in the newspaper for attacking the kid next door. (Granted, there are
> plenty of mild-mannered dogs in the world, obviously. But, to say
> such a general statement about a dog that just ATTACKED my dog. Are
> you being serious?)
> c) Regardless if the dog is aggressive or not, take responsibility for
> your dog, and watch it at the park. May I remind you that we are all
> technically breaking the law by letting our dogs off leash at the
> park. We should be grateful that we still have this benefit, and we
> should not take advantage of what is given to us. If we can't take
> care of our own dogs at the park by picking up their poop, ensuring
> their and other dogs' safety, ensuring other park-goers' safety, then
> we shouldn't have the ability to take them there at all. Yes, taking
> the dog to the park can be a social event, but that doesn't mean you
> take your eyes off your dog, or shift your lack of ownership and
> responsibility on a chew toy.
> d) I'm still insanely pissed over this issue because my dog is now in
> quarantine because some jerk didn't watch their dog, or tell me he's
> aggressive over toys when I was in plain view of her and her dog. So,
> if you disagree with me on any of this, don't bother responding to me,
> because it makes absolutely no difference what your (or my) opinion
> is. Why don't you go ask your local animal control officer or the DCR
> their opinion on toys at the dog park? Ten bucks says they'll have
> the same response. It's your responsibility - take care of your own
> damn dog!!! Especially if you know it's aggressive.
>
> On Mar 24, 4:13 pm, "luvtask...@yahoo.com" <luvtask...@yahoo.com>
>
> read more »
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