I'd like to create a list of 'Irish' tunes in the Sacred Harp, in
preparation for a singing on St Patrick's Day. Any suggestions? By
'Irish', I mean either tunes that likely originated in Ireland or
became popular there. (My wife and I are also planning a trip to
Ireland in May, & it will be nice to have such a list).

As examples, 'Clamanda' [related to the tune 'Parting Glass'] and
Sawyer's Exit' ['Old Rosin' the Beau'] as described in [1].

Any details or references you have will be appreciated.

[1] https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0212&L=IRTRAD-L&P=52000

Will (maker of lists)

Unfortunately, there really aren't any specifically Irish tunes in *The
Sacred Harp*.  The CLAMANDA tune did circulate, but only the Scottish
version (the earliest appearance of which predates the Irish by almost a
century).  In American literature, the CLAMANDA tune AKA, SHOUTING HYMN,
CLAMANDA, SHOUTING SONG, AYRSHIRE, AMBOY, SOCIAL BAND, CHRISTIAN SOLDIER,
CROSS OF THE LORD, OLD CHURCH YARD derives from Scottish and English
versions where it was always known as FREEMASON'S FAREWELL, MASONIC ADIEU,
BURNS' FAREWELL, and THE PEACOCK.  Interesting that a tune associated with
Freemasonry would be carried up and sung by people who probably subscribed
to the Anti-Masonic controversy in the 1830s.

SAWYER'S EXIT, adapted from OLD ROSIN THE BEAU, was a comic song in the
Irish dialect (like a blackface minstrel song, only using an Irish stock
character).  This was a pop song and not a folk song (apparently).

THE OLD-FASHIONED BIBLE was an adaptation of the English country dance tune,
ST. PATRICK'S DAY IN THE MORNING.  This tune is not Irish, but was made
popular by James Oswald and a smattering of other British and Scottish music
publishers in the 1750s and 60s.

About the only Irish tunes found in shape-note books are adaptations of
Anglo-Irish tunes, mostly by Thomas Moore.  For instance, Houser adapted
"Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms" as THE CHARIOT OF MERCY.

Moore's THE LEGACY appeared in its original secular form in Carden's *Missouri
Harmony, *Knight's *Juvenile Harmony*, and Walker's* Southern Harmony* (with
an added third voice).  This tune was subsequently adapted into the
shape-note literature, first in a few 4-shape sources - MAJESTY NEW in
Hayden's *Introduction to Sacred Music* in 1835, and Houser.  But it was
more popular in the 7-shape repertory - BYZANTIUM in Myer's *Manual of
Sacred Music* (1853); MAJESTY NEW in Hayden's *Sacred Melodeon* (1848),
Johnson's *Western Psalmodist* (1853), and Wenger's *Philharmonia* (1875) -
as well as some round note versions such as SAINTS' RAPTURE in Hillman's *
Revivalist* (1869).

Other Anglo-Irish tunes occasionally appear that were adapted for the
English operatic stage, and subsequently brought into the 4-shape
literature, such as the song known as "The Rose Tree" found in William
Shield's afterpiece *The Poor Soldier*, which featured Irish characters
portrayed in an Irish-face type of stereotype.  This tune appears in various
guises as THE LORD IS GREAT, (OR MAJESTY) in Walker's *Southern and Western
Pocket Harmonist*, and attributed to Caldwell, the various sacred forms of
the tune as THE ROSE TREE arranged by Davisson in the editions to his
*Supplement
to the Kentucky Harmony*.  Also Houser adapted his own setting from Davisson
in *The Hesperian Harp*, as did Lazarus Jones in *The Southern Minstrel* and
named CALIFORNIA.  Jackson did his own setting in *The Knoxville Harmony* in
1840.  There are some other 4-shape variants in manuscripts from Ohio and
Virginia.  But this tune became an emblem of stereotype because of its
popularity appearing in popular music circles with an operatic connotation,
kinda-like the tune "Jump Jim Crow" as representing African-American folk
music.  Yes Rice adapted this from a black street musician in Louisville,
but I wouldn't think its minstrel connotation would represent African
Americans in general.

This also brings us to North Ireland.  Do we consider Scots Irish music
"Irish?"  I'm less inclined to think so, since this group of people did not
come from Ireland, and many left in the later 17th and early 18th centuries
after only having been there for a hundred years or so.  But there are tunes
adapted from Scots Irish events such as the "Battle of Boyne Water" or
"Boyne Water" and a few others.  While there has been a persistence of
belief in much of this material as coming from Ireland, almost all of it
remains English and Scottish.

Nikos Pappas, Lxgtn

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Will Fitzgerald
<will.fitzger...@gmail.com>wrote:

   Is Nettleton used in SH? I don't remember. Anyway, it's very similar to the Gaelic harp air Aisling an Óigfhir (The Young Man's Dream), especially the second section. It's been proposed as an early version of the Air from County Derry. <reverb> Danny Boy, the song they could not kill ... </reverb>

There are some others that I don't play regularly and therefore can't call to mind, but this will get you started.

-- Tracie (not too proud to play Danny Boy, because you never know why someone requested it)
Athens, Georgia

I searched for "shape note" and found a few tunes, but none of them  
identified as Irish origin, although one became a part of the Irish  
music tradition, perhaps going from USA to Ireland "Cruiskeen Lawn."

The fiddler's companion is quite a nice resource for fiddle tune  
questions, pretty thorough and relatively large quantity of tunes  
identified.  Here are the tunes I found in a search today that had  
shape note in their discussion:

CRUISKEEN LAWN (Cruiscin Lan). AKA and see "O'Sullivan's Return,"  
"The Men of '82," "The Wife Who Was Dumb," "Dumb, Dumb, Dumb." Irish,  
Air (4/4 time). G Minor. Standard. AB. "Cruiskeen Lawn" is the  
Englished form of the Gaelic title "Cruiscin Lan," which means 'The  
Full Little Jug'. Flood (1905) reports that Dr. Sigerson, in "The  
Bards of the Gael and Gall, believes this tune evidences strong  
Scandinavian musical influences from the period of the Norse  
invasions of Ireland c. 800-1050. He is in error, states Flood, who  
doubts the tune dates from the Norse period or even mediaeval days."  
Cazden (et al, 1982) finds the earliest publication of the song to be  
a sheet-music copy printed in New York by Edward Riley, dated between  
1823 and 1831, and notes that the song became a favorite on both  
sides of the Atlantic during the mid-ninteenth century. As a popular  
tune it was used for several other ballads and hymns, including the  
American shape-note piece "Consolation" (Sacred Harp, 1848). See also  
note to "An Cruisgin Beag" and "We'll take again a cruiskeen, a  
cruiskeen laun." O'Neill (1850), 1979; No. 254, pg. 44.

GODDESSES. AKA and see "Quodling's Delight," "O the Oak and Ash and  
Bonny Ivy Tree." English, Country Dance Tune (2/2 or 4/4 time). G  
Minor (Barnes, Fleming-Williams, Karpeles, Raven, Sharp): A Minor  
(Chappell). Standard. AB (Sharp): AABB (Barnes, Chappell, Fleming-
Williams, Karpeles, Raven). This air was first published by Playford  
in his English Dancing Master (1651 and all subsequent editions), the  
Fitzwilliam Virginal Book, and Sir John Hawkins' transcripts. It  
belongs to a large tune family which includes numerous dance and  
ballad melodies. Derivatives became, for example, the American shape  
note song "Samantha," and was also used for the songs "A North  
Country Maid," "The Northern Lasse's Lamentation; or, The Unhappy  
Maid's Misfortune," and "The Oak and Ash (and Bonny Ivy Tree)," but  
also includes "I Am the Duke of Norfolk" or "Paul's Steeple." John M.  
Ward has pointed out that all the tunes of this family may be  
considered descants over the ground known as 'passamezzo antico'.  
Barnes (English Country Dance Tunes), 1989. Chappell (Popular Music  
of the Olden Times), Vol. 1, 1859; pg. 276 (appears as "Quodling's  
Delight"). Fleming-Williams & Shaw (English Dance Airs; Popular  
Selection, Book 1), 1965; pg. 5. Karpeles & Schofield (A Selection of  
100 English Folk Dance Airs), 1951; pg. 14. Raven (English Country  
Dance Tunes), 1984; pg. 25 & 42 (the latter is a facsimile reprint of  
the Playford original). Sharp (Country Dance Tunes), 1994; pg. 24.

LADY CASSILIS'/CALLILLES LILT. AKA and see "Johnnie Faa." Scottish,  
Reel. From the Scottish Skene Collection, a mandora book, c.  
1615-1620. Robin Williamson notes that Lady Cassilis famously eloped  
with a handsome gypsy, which act was immortalized in a much-
diseminated and popular ballad family under such names as 'Johnie  
Faa,' 'The Raggle Taggle Gypsies,' and (in America) 'Black Jack  
David.' He relates there is some doubt as to the event's historical  
accuracy, but that even the earliest versions agree as to her name.  
The melody became the basis for a host of popular ballads of various  
sorts, including Cazden's (et al, 1982) Catskill Mountain (New York)  
collected "The Ship's Carpenter," several Child ballads and many  
others, including American shape-note hymns. Flying Fish Records,  
FF358, Robin Williamson - "Legacy of the Scottish Harpers, Vol.  
1" (melody from the Skene).

LITTLE MATH HAMILTON TUNE. American, Reel. USA, southwestern Pa. G  
Major ('A-D' parts) & C Major ("E-F' parts). Standard. ABCDEFG.  
According to Samuel Bayard (1981), the tune was named after its  
alleged composer, however, it uses strains which appear in "The  
Shepton Hornpipe," while another strain appears in both the shape  
note hymn "Never Part" and another southwestern Pennsylvania  
collected reel (No. 61 {untitled}). Source for notated version:  
Pardee (Pa., 1952) [Bayard]. Bayard (Dance to the Fiddle), 1981; No.  
191, pg. 148.

YORK FUSILIERS, THE. AKA and see "Shenandoah." English (originally),  
American; March or Country Dance. D Major. Standard. AABBCCDD. A  
British regimental march from the Revolutionary War period that has  
found its way into American dance and martial tradition, perhaps from  
early fife tutors (showing up in southwestern Pa. marital bands as  
the march "Shenandoah"). It appears, for example in Cushing Eell's  
tune manuscript of 1789 (page 19) from Norwich, Connecticut, and in  
The Fifer's Companion, printed by Joshua Cushing in 1805. Eells also  
lists this song as "General Washington's March." The tune was also  
used for shape note hymns ("The Heavenly Contention"). Morrison uses  
it for the contra dance "The Convention." Morrison (Twenty-Four Early  
American Country Dances, Cotillions & Reels, for the Year 1976),  
1976; pg. 49. Sweet (Fifer's Delight), 1965/1981; pg. 54.

For those who might be interested in appearances of THE ROSE TREE
(http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/399.jpg) elsewhere on the musical
landscape, it appears to me to be the tune of "King Kong Kitchie
Kitchie Kimie-o" (a version of "Frog Went a Courtin'") by "Chubby"
Parker, from 1928, on the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk
Music.

--David Wright (Seattle, WA)

For those who might be interested in appearances of THE ROSE TREE
(http://www.shapenote.net/berkley/399.jpg) elsewhere on the musical
landscape, it appears to me to be the tune of "King Kong Kitchie
Kitchie Kimie-o" (a version of "Frog Went a Courtin'") by "Chubby"
Parker, from 1928, on the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk
Music.

--David Wright (Seattle, WA)

You can find my (short) list of (kind of) Irish tunes in the (Denson)
Sacred Harp at:

http://www.entish.org/sh/st_patricks_tunes.html

Enjoy! And I'd be glad for any other suggestions.

Will

On Mar 4, 12:52 pm, Will Fitzgerald <will.fitzger...@gmail.com> wrote:

And a tip, should you and your wife not already know this, and for any other
lovers of traditional music who are going to Ireland --  Be sure to stop by
the local tourist bureau office and ask for any local traditional music
recitals, gatherings, or sessions taking place while you are there.   Even
if it's after business hours, stop by the address because these may be
posted outside.

Brenda Pena
NYC

Festivals, concerts and other musical activities are also listed on the Comhaltas (COAL-tas) web site: http://comhaltas.ie/events/

Explore http://www.thesession.org/sessions/  to find local sessions. Be sure to read the comments, as this is where cancellation and change information is posted, and if you can, contact the contact person to make sure the listing is current.

The advice to visit the local Tourist Board office is good. While some of the larger ones are clearly geared toward the green t-shirt tourist crowd, they are likely to have local information that has not made it to a web site. While the employees may not play or know a lot about Irish traditional music, they probably know someone who does.

The first time I visited Ireland (1985), it was almost impossible to find traditional music sessions. There were some, but they weren't publicized other than by word of mouth. Bluegrass, country, blues, jazz, but no jigs and reels. I found my first one when a member of the band Stockton's Wing stopped me on the street because I was wearing my CityFolk ( www.cityfolk.org ) t-shirt, asked me if I were from Dayton, Ohio, and went on enthusiastically about Dayton audiences and the CityFolk series, on which they had appeared several times.

Two years later I walked into the Tourist Board office in the airport and picked up a schedule packed with sessions (instrumental and vocal), concerts, dances and festivals.  The brochure and many of the sessions and dances were sponsored by ... Budweiser, the #1 import been in Ireland.

-- Tracie
Athens, Georgia

More?

Will

On Mar 10, 7:43 am, Will Fitzgerald <will.fitzger...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not to throw a fly in the ointment, but "Down in the Willow Garden" as found
among bluegrass and oldtime artists is a secular adaptation of "Rosin the
Beau."  Like our Sacred Harp sacred equivalent.  Irwinton isn't a version of
"Rosin the Beau" so which version of "Down in the Willow Garden" are you
referring to?  This might help for Will's list.

Nikos
Lxgtn

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Will Fitzgerald
<will.fitzger...@gmail.com>wrote:

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiSALLYGRD;ttSALLYGRD.html

What do you think? It seems "related."

On Mar 10, 7:09 pm, Nikos Pappas <nikos.a.pap...@gmail.com> wrote:

Will et al:

I found that one as well. Note that the tune is actually called "Maids of the Mourne Shore". Following that lead, I found the following:

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1314

You can see that the tune is called "An Traigh Mughdhorna" in Gaelic and has a fairly long traditional history in Ireland. While I can hear some relationship between this tune and IRWINTON, it seems very distant and could be coincidental. Also, no one has mentioned that IRWINTON appears as CHRISTIAN TRAVELLERS in Houser's Hesperian Harp (#185T) and RESIGNATION (#38) in Walker's 1854 edition of The Southern Harmony, both, unfortunately, without composer attribution. This Mudcat Cafe thread suggests that RESIGNATION/IRWINTON/CHRISTIAN TRAVELLERS may be related to a hymn tune called St. Columba, which is supposedly Irish:

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=48700#732426

Here's some more information on St. Columba:

http://www.ccel.org/cceh//0009/x000921.htm

Frankly, I don't see much of a relationship between St. Columba and RESIGNATION, so I may be going in circles again. But it would be interesting to hear if anyone has more information on the history of IRWINTON/RESIGNATION/CHRISTIAN TRAVELLERS.

Wade

--- On Tue, 3/10/09, Will Fitzgerald <will.fitzger...@gmail.com> wrote:

It turns out that St. Columba appears (without a title) as #1043 in Charles Villers Stanford's 1903 edition of George Petrie's 1855 collection of Irish music. So the St. Columba tune does seem to have an Irish connection. Interestingly, Petrie provides the following note:

"Irish Hymn sung on the dedication of a chapel -- Co. of Londonderry"

Wade Kotter
Ogden, UT

--- On Tue, 3/10/09, Wade Kotter <wadekot...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The meters between ST. COLUMBA and HOPEWELL/RESIGNATION/IRWINTON/CHRISTIAN
TRAVELLERS are different and ST. COLUMBA is only one verse, whereas the
other is C.M. double.  If some melodic possibilities do appear, it seems to
be coincidental I think.  On another note, I don't see a connection between
IRWINTON and the "Maids of the Mourne Shore" tune either.  The final cadence
of the third phrase kind of parallels the same place in IRWINTON, but this
seems to be it.  However, if you do look at the tune, "An Traigh Mughdhorma"
given with the following link in an earlier post:

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1314

and you convert the tune to 6/4 or 6/8 time, you find an identical melodic
contour of SAWYER'S EXIT or "Old Rosin the Beau," sans the third phrase.
The rise to scale degree 6 in the initial section of the first, second, and
fourth phrases, and the drop to the lower scale degree 6 at the end of the
first phrase, correspond identically between the two tunes.  This is
probably the version that I was referring to as performed in oldtime and
bluegrass music tradition.  Without saying one or the other would have been
the original, these tunes at least follow identical melodic patterns for
most of the tune.

Nikos Pappas
Lxgtn, KY

Nick:

I agree with your observations on ST. COLUMBA and IRWINTON. In terms of "Maids of the Mourne Shore" and "Old Rosin the Beau", a variant of the former appears as #302 in the Petrie collection under the title "The Maids of Mourne Shore." Petrie identifies it as "Set in the Co. of Derry, 1834." It's clearly a variant of the tune posted on "Tbe Session" website and does rise to scale degree 6 in the initial section of the first, second and fourth phrases, but it does not drop to the lower scale degree 6 at the end of the first phrase; instead, it stays at the tonic. If you have access to the Petrie collection, it might be worth taking a look.

Also, I noticed that you added HOPEWELL to the RESIGNATION/IRWINTON/CHRISTIAN TRAVELLERS group. According to David W. Music, HOPEWELL first appeared in Shaw and Spilman's "Columbian Harmony" of 1829. It also was printed in Caldwell's "Union Harmony" of 1837 and John Jackson's "Knoxville Harmony" of 1838. Does anyone have a scan of HOPEWELL that they could send me?

Wade Kotter
Ogden, UT

--- On Tue, 3/10/09, Nikos Pappas <nikos.a.pap...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wade,

This is a different HOPEWELL.  The HOPEWELL you're referring to is another
tune family  of HOPEWELL/CONFESSION/COLUMBUS, with a tune incipit of:
3(4)555(4)3554(3)  13(4)54(3)11 and set in E minor.

The HOPEWELL I was referring to was a variant setting of the tune known as
RESIGNATION/IRWINTON/CHRISTIAN TRAVELLERS.  It is set in E major, and its
incipit is: 1(3)5435u1d6(4)3  1(3)51(2)321.

Same name, different tune.  You'll find that this HOPEWELL is just a bit
different than the RESIGNATION/IRWINTON version.  This tune first appeared
in Freeman Lewis' *Songs of Zion* (Pittsburgh, 1824), and later published by
Samuel Wakefield in his *Western Harp* (Mount Pleasant, 1846) and in Amos
Sutton Hayden's *The Sacred Melodeon* (1848

Derry is Northern Ireland, so this would appear to be a Northern Ireland
tune and presumably Scots Irish, and not a strictly Irish tune, based upon
your Petrie note.

Nikos Pappas
Lxgtn, KY

Thanks, Nick. I have the Lewis and the Hayden, so I'll look it up later today. And I did notice the Derry/Northern Ireland/Scots Irish connection of both ST. COLUMBA and "The Maids of Mourne Shore;" in fact, that's one reason I posted Petrie's notes.

Wade Kotter
Ogden, UT

--- On Wed, 3/11/09, Nikos Pappas <nikos.a.pap...@gmail.com> wrote:

The HOPEWELL that is almost RESIGNATION/IRWINTON also appears in John R. Daily's 1902 seven-shape Primitive Baptist Hymn And Tune Book, a book that is set in standard two-staff format.  Although Daily's book was originally published in Kentucky, it seems to possibly have a stronger connection to Northern tune books than to Southern ones.

Berkley in Springfield, IL