Newbies and experts

[Bron]

I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
group at this stage.

Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.

I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.

I want to ask a few community development questions around these
issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
palpable)...

What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
predominant so early in a group's forming?

Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
this new information on board?

Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
people in the group?

How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?

I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.

~ Bron

[Leigh Blackall]

Hi Bron, I completely agree with your observations. I think now is an opportune time for us to step back from the technology and consider the community aspect of what we are doing. Bron, I take it you are ready to lead a discussion on this? Your prompting questions are great - and they will lead us nicely into week 2-3 What is an online community?

So, those of us who are ready - let's consider Bron's questions and observations. Let's toss a few ideas around here and prepare to write up something to our blogs on the questions. There are a few readings in week 2-3 of the course wiki that may stimulate ideas - but maybe people have a few things better that we could look at too.

I'm looking forward to reading some of the thinking on Bron's suggestion.

--
--
Leigh Blackall
+64(0)21736539
skype - leigh_blackall
SL - Leroy Goalpost
http://learnonline.wordpress.com

[Joy]

Hi, Bron. Thanks for raising the issues, many of them are my concerns.
I am not one of the expert group. I am struggling for the whole week
and am totally lost. I dont know what to do. There are so many posts,
and many of them full of new terms to me, e.g. Pageflakes, Wordpress,
etc. When I read the info posted and felt really aweful about my
current skills.

To answer your question "What are the risks when the technological in
and outs are so predominant so early in a group's forming? " with my
own feeling, firstly, I was lost. I dont understand what people are
talking about. Instead of getting to know other students, I spends
hours online to research on the terminologies and try to catch up
with the discussion. Secondly, it's a desaster towards my confidence.
I am really stressful now - Oh dear! Can I follow the discussion
through the whole course? Can I cope with the course?

It's good to have many people showing their interests in the course,
but although everyone introduced themselves in the discussion page, I
found it's really hard to have further conversation between peers. So
how can we get to "really" know the others? As a student like me, cant
join the discussion about the techniques, what can I do? I mean, after
say "hi" to others, shall we just look around and then walk away? I
realise it's hard to build up relationship in such a big class. I dont
know if it's practical to have these 80 students ( I guess?) into
several small or medium sized groups will help?

Joy

[Leigh Blackall]

There's a good suggestion.. find buddies, form smaller groups - perhaps based on perceived skill levels.

Hang in there Joy. Focus on the wiki to do lists and I promise you will be ok.

[shane.tech.teach]

Technology has indeed seduced the conversation, and it is important to
discuss the community intent and desires from our inclusion in this
course. We need to acknowledge that it is the technology that allows us
to have these communities and therefore I believe it is important that
there is discussion on the tools. I personally get to know people by
looking into their online identity. I go to their Twitter profile and
follow them, look them up on Diigo, explore their delicious tags, view
their online photos etc etc.

Discussions on aggregators may have dominated the email group so far,
but within there has been relevant discussion that has enabled me to get
to know the others in my course.

[Joao Alves]

For the first week of the course and considering its topic (Orientation), objectives and tasks we were to accomplish (setting up a blog, updating introduction on the course wiki with a link to the blog, setting up an RSS News Reader) it seems to me that the kind of discussions we were having are justified. After all, most of the tasks we were supposed to accomplish are technical tasks. But that is ok for the first week, we all are trying to organize ourselves (using these tools) to get the best possible out of the course. The best way to know the people here is reading what they write or say using every tool they can. But first we need to find a good and easy way to get in touch with the people's ideas. This is what we were trying to do this week. We are  trying to organize ourselves to start the "real" course that is starting next week. I am looking forward to the course contents and hope I can cope with the level of it.

Best wishes,
Joao

2008/7/31 shane.tech.teach <shane.te...@gmail.com>

Technology has indeed seduced the conversation, and it is important to
discuss the community intent and desires from our inclusion in this
course.  We need to acknowledge that it is the technology that allows us
to have these communities and therefore I believe it is important that
there is discussion on the tools.  I personally get to know people by
looking into their online identity.  I go to their Twitter profile and
follow them, look them up on Diigo, explore their delicious tags, view
their online photos etc etc

--
Joao Alves
http://joaocarlosalves.eu

[ly...@gillilandjud.com]

Thanks to Bron for raising this topic.  As others have stated, I am  completely lost and have given up reading the emails.  I was hoping that somewhere along the way our paths would cross  again and we would join together.  My bottom line is : What is it that I need to know and I will focus on that.  My concern would be that people that are non-teckies like me will get lost and drop out and the group will remain those that know.

All that said, I am still very very energized by the possibilites.

Warmly

Lynne

 

Lynne Gilliland

Gilliland & Jud

www.gillilandjud.com

410-517-0869

ly...@gillilandjud.com

[Gabriela]

I think a good way to get to know the other participants and to make
contact is visiting their blogs and maybe leaving a comment.
I find it very difficult to make contact here, in this google group. I
simply forget who wrote what. But I've read a lot of blog posts, read
about people's hopes and concerns and expectations. I particularly
liked this one:

http://onlinecommunitiescareandfeeding.blogspot.com/2008/07/thoughts-as-class-begins.html

I think it's on blogs where we can find people's real voices, not
here. Not in technical skills.

So what I would suggest is go and read, write a comment if you wish.
Best wishes
gabriela

> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle,del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,

[Jeffrey Keefer]

Lynne-

I know exactly what you mean. I blogged about this a little bit this
morning as part of my own fulfilling of the assignments. I generally
feel comfortable with technology (once I get what purpose it serves
and how it helps me fulfill some need I have; I am not terribly
interested in technology for its own sake), though I have felt a bit
overwhelmed this week as well.

I think you raise an excellent issue; if people get overwhelmed in the
first week, I am not so sure they will wait around until the second
week. For example, I do not have the statistics for how many of the
class participants have contributed to the emails and such here via
Google, but I do not think it was even half the participants (once
again, based on a sense and not on firm data). I am wondering how that
silent group is processing all of this, or if some are overwhelmed and
clinging on for dear life. Like all silent students, we do not know
how they perceive or think until we directly communicate with them.
That may be happening here (I hope), though we just don't know.

In the end, I commend Leigh's wiki and how simple to understand he
makes our assignments for next week. If everything else is noise, just
turn down the volume or, better yet, adjust the frequency to focus on
Leigh (as he is the solid rock at the beginning of a very interesting
ride). I am only suggesting this as I am trying to do the same and am
starting to get my bearings.

-----
Jeffrey Keefer
Blog: www.silenceandvoice.com
Website: www.jeffreykeefer.com

> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle,del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,

[illya...@gmail.com]

Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for
the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.

On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise'
is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and
sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS
feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has
different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This
doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I
guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one
possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.

I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these
threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing
feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and
pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I
may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.

It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the
technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads
addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also
get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest
someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out
there willing to help.

Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this
kind of setting.

[Mary-Doug Wright]

Hi all

I'm going to pop in here with a few comments. I think that we aren't
really being side-tracked by our discussion of technology and how to
use it these last few days. I see this introductory week as a time for
setting the tools in place for our future discussions. I come to it as
someone familiar with a number of technologies for online interaction.
Though I'm not a complete novice, I have much to learn and already
I've been introduced to some things I know nothing about - and it's
pushing me to do something I've been dragging my heels on, setting up
a blog.

Once we have the technologies in place, we can move forward to our
main purpose - learning about and discussing facilitating online
communities. To me, the key word here is "facilitating." I don't have
much experience in this area and I'm really looking forward to
learning something about it. For others, the key word might be
"online." I suspect there are people in this community who have lots
of experience as facilitators, but are wanting to learn how to do this
online rather than face-to-face.

I think what we're all experiencing, to one degree or another, is the
"anxiety" of meeting all the new kids at school at the beginning of a
new term (or even more, at moving to a new school altogether) and not
knowing how we all fit in the class. I'm pretty sure this will all
settle down once we get going.

Now, back to struggling with my blog.

Cheers - from a grey and rainy day in Vancouver,
Mary-Doug

--
Mary-Doug Wright, B.Sc., M.L.S.
Apex Information
#101 - 1857 West 4th Avenue
Vancouver, BC Canada V6J 1M4
604-731-8562 (p)
604-730-9608 (f)
mdwr...@apexinformation.com
http://www.apexinformation.com

[Leigh Blackall]

Most excellent responses so far. Very reassuring to see how quickly we have managed to embrace Bron's challenge and negotiate meaning through the proposed polarity.

I must say, I so far agree with the points set by Shane and Joao, that technology is what we must use in order to commune and so it is inevitable that we talk technology - at least in the initial stages of our meeting.

But equally important is for those without technical confidence to speak up and seek guidance - or for those with empathy for them, to speak up on their behalf and make room for their voices.

In a face to face meeting (with a facilitator), too often I see people who are confident with acronyms, institution speak, and in-jokes show no empathy for people without their level of confidence, and so allow their group to drift and struggle without negotiating a shared understanding.

There is arguably a commonality therefore between what a facilitator might do in a face to face meeting, with what they might do in an online meeting such as this. Identifying the potentially alienating aspects of a discussion and helping the group to negotiate a common appreciation of those topics.

I think we have a good start to the course out of all this... so far...

[Joao Alves]

Exactly the way I feel, Mary. Liked the image you used with the kids that go to school for the first time in their lives and feel a bit intimidated by the crowd. So, please just relax, take it easy (do you know the song?) and everything will be just fine. We have an amazing group and and amazing facilitator who are always ready to help one another.

I think that "Facilitating" should be the key word for everyone here because, in my opinion, that is the most important point of the course, whether it's online or face-to-face. Even if someone already knows how to facilitate a course face-to-face, facilitating online must be different because the setting is a completely different one, too. I don't have any experience in any one of them but I would very much like to learn how to be a facilitator in an online learning environment.

2008/7/31 Mary-Doug Wright <apex.inf...@gmail.com>

[Bron]

Thanks Mary-Doug, Illya, Jeffrey, Lynne, Joao, Shane and Joy,

It seems obvious that those experienced with the technology would want
to first get all the connective technology in place in order to make
sense of the interaction and networking of this course. I think we all
work from the knowledge and successful practices that we have in our
armory. My concern is that aggregating blogs and comparing the
technical capabilities of a so many tools is like intergalactic travel
to someone who has not yet wrapped their head around what a blog is
and why they would want to use one.

Some people will need a more moderate entry into the technical
activity and will be more used to getting to know people through
discussions and introductions.
I don't think a workshop can afford to assume that the level of
visible the conversation, which this has rapidly escalated to, is
meeting the needs of all people who came here to learn. As Jeffrey
says many of those facing frustration, already feeling positioned in a
deficit mode, may not speak up and may simply throw their hands up!
Can we simply say to people learn to deal - even though what they are
learning to deal with is the way of Web2.0. I think it is beholding on
us a community facilitators to consider the welfare of everyone in the
community and to work to support them at their level not simply expect
everyone to measure up to the most experienced. How do we identify
people needing more guidance or support? How likely are people to
speak up and say they are lost in a large amorphous group like this
where there seems to be a high level of technical expertise. People
often need some relationships in place before they ask people for help
privately let alone publicly. The technology is an enabler it is not
the community.


~ Bron



I do not think we are talking about

On Aug 1, 8:19 am, "Mary-Doug Wright" <apex.informat...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> mdwri...@apexinformation.comhttp://www.apexinformation.com

[NELLIE DEUTSCH]

Hi Bron,

Thank you for sharing your concerns. I am both task and relationship oriented in my teaching and learning. However, what is suitable for me may not be for others. I like to ask how others feel so that we can share our goals and needs before starting a course. The answers are not always there because some learners have difficulties reflecting and verbalizing how they feel. Personally, I would love to know about others learning preferences when it comes to using technology. But then, that's what the blogs are for, aren't they?

 

Nellie

 

http://www.integrating-technology.com/pd
http://www.building-relationship.com/education
http://blendedlear.ning.com

[Russ]

These comments are helpful. One of the concerns I have is that getting
people to engage meaningfully using technology seems to be linked to
the simplicity of the technology. Simple instructions that lead to
success generate further exploration.

On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote:

[ly...@gillilandjud.com]

What I appreciate about Bron's email is that it reminds me that we can learn to take care of our own community right now in this slightly messy phase.  How do we make sure everyone feels included?   What is those that are up on technical stuff had some open sessions to answer questions to the ones that are lost? We also had the excellent suggestion that we form buddies - and I thank Jeffrey for being willing to buddy me and to Bron for suggesting it.  

I wonder if those folks that are lost or getting lost (me included) could just shout out?

Warmly

Lynne

 

Lynne Gilliland

Gilliland & Jud

www.gillilandjud.com

410-517-0869

ly...@gillilandjud.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ::{{FOC}}:: Re: Newbies and experts
From: Bron <bronwyn...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, July 31, 2008 4:10 pm
To: Facilitating Online Communities
<facilitating-on...@googlegroups.com>

> mdwri...@apexinformation.com target=_blank href="http://www.apexinformation.com">http://www.apexinformation.com

[Leigh Blackall]

Another excellent suggestion Lynne:

What if those that are up on technical stuff had some open sessions to answer questions to the ones that are lost?

Remember the meeting room? It is open 24/7 :) Which means it is always there for spontaneous meetings and help sessions. Using Elluminate in this way is a bit of an experiment for me - so apologies if it turns out not to work as I hope. (I use Elluminate because it is reliable for people on dial up. Nellie's suggestion to use another meeting space would be good to try out later I think - once we are more confident together with what we have).

Perhaps, some of us should consider occupying the meeting room whenever we are online - just have it running in the background so that if people did just pop in for a look, there would be more or a chance for those spontaneous help sessions. Even better if others did the same... suggestion: if you do pop in and see someone else in there, use the mic to shout out.. they might be looking at another screen or be away from the computer a bit..

[NELLIE DEUTSCH]

Many online instructors seem to ignore the importance of providing clear instructions. But then, what may be simple and clear instructions for one, may be unclear for someone else. Instructions for the assignments are always an issue for my colleagues at the University of Phoenix. No one is ever 100% sure what they need to do unless there is a grading rubric that specifies the criteria for the assignment. A grading rubric seems to work for most online learners.

[Leigh Blackall]

A grading rubric seems to work for most online learners.

Hmm, that's 2 people who have suggested such a thing. I will consult with the sponsoring institution and devise a more specific assessment criteria next week and add it to the course wiki. As you suggest Nellie, this should help to clarify aspects that may be lost in translation with what we have there for the assignments already. To be honest, it has been on my to-do list for some time but I find it hard to motivate myself for such things  *_* But I agree, it is a worth while thing to do.

[NELLIE DEUTSCH]

Leigh,

Maybe some of the more experienced online instructors can collaborate and create a rubric for the course. The initiative may count as a bonus. :)

[Leigh Blackall]

Feel free Nellie,

I will do what I set out to do anyway. I would be interested to see what more experienced instructors do.

[Andrew Chambers]

To be honest Bron, I think the use of Blogs themselves is an issue for
some. See my seperate thread on this. It is not as simple to set up a
blog and to follow others as using a discussion forum where you simply
post and reply to people openly. In addition the way the two
technologies work is different. Forums are many to many in that anyone
can post and anyone can reply to anyone and anyone can see the posts
and replies. Although Blogs are similar the method of commenting is
not as straight forward and the result in effect is not a many to many
connection as one person posts and then 1 person responds. I'm not
sure this is clear or quite correct. I hope you get the idea. In
addition you must go to many blogs or aggregate many blogs. This is
not necessary with a discussion forum. Discussion forums are good for
discussion. Blogs are good for individual reflection. I'm not
convinced they are exactly equivalent nor that they should be used in
similar ways...

[Bronwyn Stuckey]

I agree entirely Andrew,

For me blogs do not create conversation. Blogs, their comments and the
association of blogs by authors mentioning, responding to and
questioning other bloggers through their post seems largely one-to-one
held in a public space. Comments exemplify this as they are often
singular individual responses they don't seem to move people to join in
and contribute in the same way perhaps that threaded discussions do.They
are also by nature usually very short quips or questions and do not go
anywhere near the depth of thinking that we have seen here in this
threaded discussion.

I have to say that I am very much enjoying both - reading blogs and
engaging in this Googlegroup email conversation. One thing I totally
appreciate is receiving email of the group messages and being able to
respond via email. This "push" version of the dialog, comparable to the
feeds from blogs without the immediacy of response, puts things clearly
on my radar and makes scanning to keep abreast of all the juicy issues
so much easier.

Maybe others might want to comment here to Andrew's thoughtful
differentiation and tell us if they have
experienced blogging as a conversation. I know they are community
building tools as I have watched relationships grow and groups form
around blogger associations.

Bron

[Mike Bogle]

Good thread all :)

Interestingly I find it far more difficult to keep up with the conversation on discussion forums and email lists than blogs - particularly with respect to the volume of posts that come through.  With this google group for example I only manage to read one in 10 messages that comes through (if that) and I feel like I'm really missing out on the conversation.

In that sense I think usage preference really comes into play.  It also raises the issue of centralised versus decentralised conversations.

In the case of blogs I think conversations do take place, but it's of a much different nature than discussion forums.  With forums you have one spot where all the activity takes place.  In blogs it's spread across a few or even many different locations.  With certain topics it can become what's known as a "meme" - or a topic that is discussed by numerous people.

I do notice a sort of informal convention with blog-based conversations which is worth mentioning here.  Personally speaking, when I have a thought that relates specifically to the post I'm reading - either as feedback, or a suggestion, or an annecdote - I'm likely to leave that as a comment on the post itself.  As Bron was saying, these do tend to be shorter than the blog posts themselves and may not necessarily push the conversation along in a really meaningful way.

However when the content of a post inspires me to in depth reflection I'm more than likely to post something elaborate on my own blog and link to the originating entry as a trackback**.  In many ways this does represent an addition to the conversation, but it's of a much different nature than what you see on discussion forums.

**NB: Trackbacks are notifications sent to the author of a blog indicating someone else has referenced their post.  They tend to appear in the comments area as a reference to the new post to help tie the discussions together.

The result in the blogosphere is a conversational "web" in which a topic is being covered and progressed by a decentralised network of bloggers.  On the topic of "what constitutes a community" I would argue that edubloggers (bloggers with an educational interest or focus) do constitute a community - but in a much different sense to what most people associate with the term.

So if you can consider blog posts that inform and influence each other as related "conversations", then the discussions you see in blogging may/could be as considered as considered - or perhaps even more so - than those you see in discussion forums.

That said I can definitely understand why people who favour discussion forums or email lists have an aversion - or at least difficulty acclimating - to the notion if blogs.  The whole concept of communication and how conversations take place is inherently different with blogs and in some ways it favours certain usage preferences.

In that sense I think having both blogs and discussion forums/email lists is really important in a course like this, because almost certainly one technology won't appeal to everyone - so you need to provide a range of conversational vehicles in order to accommodate the needs and learning preferences of as many people as possible.

Cheers,

Mike

[Bron]

Great comments and reflections Mike - WOW this topic is getting me
thinking and I hope a lot of others. Don't be shy - in my sense of
things we are not just all learners but we are also ALL EXPERTS at
different components of this complex online community thing. So -
love to hear more from those who have not spoken up yet - even if
just to tell us a little about your preferences as Mike describes for
threaded discussion/email, blogs or other systems for conversing.

On another note...
As the person who initiated this thread I will undertake to summarize
it when it seems that the energy has gone from this topic. But I am
wondering if there is something more than summary to be done with all
discussions and topics? Can summaries be aggregated on the wiki
perhaps or elsewhere? Or is there a more meaningful way of noting the
key ideas and key contributors in a conversation? Leigh did you have
something in mind here or want us to as a group to come up with this?

~ Bron

[Leigh Blackall]

Hi Bron:

But I am
wondering if there is something more than summary to be done with all
discussions and topics? Can summaries be aggregated on the wiki
perhaps or elsewhere? Or is there a more meaningful way of noting the
key ideas and key contributors in a conversation? Leigh did you have
something in mind here or want us to as a group to come up with this?

Well, funny enough - I see it that you post a summary on your blog Bron, with a copy also posted here to offer closure to this thread :)

To prompt the discussion a little - what about identity and ownership? How do you think those two things differ between blogs and forums?

This REALLY links us in to week 2 nicely - specifically the video recording of Stephen Downes explaining the differences he sees between groups and networks. In many ways, this email forum makes a group out of us, and the blogs will make us a network. The groups and networks debate raged on furiously between various edubloggers in 2006 . Many dismissed it as semantics, others struggled to see the difference to begin with, but I think it is a very important dichotomy relating to the age old political tension of individualism vs collectivism, or the private and the State.

To what degree might we consider these questions in relation to online community? Could we risk sacrificing individuals, diversity and original thought, for the sake of the group? Can a more networked perspective be helpful in considering community in a way that avoids group think?

Big, juicy questions I know.. we have 2 full weeks on the question of what is community?

[Sarah Stewart]

Hi everyone

I just wanted to write a quick note of reassurance to the people who were 'newbies' and are struggling a little to get going with the technology and keep up with the discussion - I did this course last year and felt quite overwhelmed in the first few weeks. But once I got going, I found this course to be a hugely valuable learning experience and my blog has now become the hub of my PLE. So, hang on in there because it certainly is worth it.

http://tinyurl.com/2tnrl5

If anyone wants a hand, especially with getting their blog going, please feel free to drop me a line.

cheers Sarah

--
Sarah Stewart
http://sarah-stewart.blogspot.com
Skype: sarah.m.stewart
Twitter: SarahStewart

[cristina costa]

Hi Mike and Bron,

I take your points.

the way I see, both group mailing list and blogs are two different ways to get the conversation going - they just work differently and I would even risk to say they complement each other.

I like mailing lists because they are useful for instant communication and they are easy to use. After all email has become a rather banal way of communicating these days. I like mailing lists too because  it gives me a sense of comfort when I need to ask questions, drop a line or two about something I want to know or share, etc. And since the email is automatically shared with everyone we are not only sharing what we know but also what we want to know with the entire community. [ the individuals don't ahve to go and check dozens of blogs to knwo what goes on in our world)  In this sense everyone is learning with/from our questions and our answers, even when we didn't know we didn't know what was shared/asked (if this makes any sense at all... :-) )

I see blogs as an open window to the individual's personal reflection about his/her personal learning journey while taking part in the community life - it is the representation of the learning he/she extracts from the joint interactions.
For me blogging (writing) helps me make sense of my personal jouney. As I share it with others, they might also want to add something to that reflection (I do love to read others' impressions about my reflections - it helps me think !)  and thus help me refine my thoughts.
Hopefully, It might also help others make their own thoughts clearer. I do agree that blogs also stimulate conversations and informal discussions, but when it comes to set up the community mood (of sharing and helping each other answering questions and solve issues) I do think mailing lists are more efficient. It has also been my experience they also help individuals to bond more quickly and meaningfully.
In short, ideally we should use both and they suit different purposes. 
Just my 2 cents

cris


--
Cristina Costa
Site: http://www.knowmansland.com/
Skype: navysternchen
Twitter: http://twitter.com/cristinacost

[Amy Lenzo]

Hi all, I haven’t piped in here yet, but have read everything and am very much enjoying the three-ring-circus :-)  ooops, I mean course so far!

I’ve blogged a few posts, wading in to the “technology” and “blog vs mailing list” questions, but that brings me to the point that - unless everyone has a feed for everyone else’s blog and reads them all - this is the main way to interact with the group as a whole. So I thought I’d say hi, and while I’m here, invite you to come play on my blog (the link’s in my signature).

I wish we had some way of tagging or linking to these mailing list posts, as I’ve found many of them very stimulating and they offer great jumping off points for our blogs. I suppose one could just cut & paste quotes, but that brings up another question that I haven’t yet heard addressed: confidentiality. Do we have permission from everyone to take quotes from this conversational forum, which is private, and paste them into our public blogs (presumably with links to the author’s blog)? I assume so, but it might help to make that explicit. Or perhaps it already has been said and I’ve just missed it. Anyway, I hereby give you all permission to quote my mailing list comments in your blog. :-)

One of the things I find fascinating, especially as we go into this next week of study, is the ambiguity or “play” between us as a group of people doing an online course on facilitating online community, and us as a potential (some might say budding) online community ourselves. I certainly find a close relationship in my own work between facilitating and nurturing/developing/“building” online community and for me this question gives context to all the others that have come up for us so far.

I’m glad to be here - excited about what’s happened so far and what’s coming! I haven’t made it to the “live sessions” on Elluminate yet – but am looking forward to the next one.

Amy

...o0o...
Amy Lenzo
a...@beautydialogues.com
FOC08 Blog: http://allislight.typepad.com/facilitating_online_commu/



  


cristina costa8/4/08 12:47 AM

[Mike Bogle]

Hi Amy,

RE: Linking to mailing list threads and posts: Actually there are ways to link to specific threads - and even individual posts.  If you go to the thread in the group (not the email) you'll see it is assigned its own unique URL.  Additionally, if you click "More Options" in the heading of each response (on the right), there's an option to view an individual message.  If you click on that it brings up just that one post; so referencing that link should give you direct access to a specific post.

Given it's a private group I suspect the link won't be much use to someone who isn't in the group, but if you're discussing the thread in a post intended for viewing by other students it would give them a way to directly access it.  So it's probably a good idea.

RE: quoting/privacy - Excellent question.  I don't think that's been discussed here yet.  Personally speaking I'm happy for anyone to quote anything I say.  My perspective is what I'm saying here is released to the public domain, so feel free.

RE: the nature of this group - I find it really fascinating and think it adds to the context of things quite well, because in a sense we are our own case study on the opportunities and obstacles inherent in a fully-online course.  So I think it's quite valuable to be exposed to some of the hurdles and hiccups here in this relatively safe environment.  That way we can observe what worked for us and what didn't, so when faced with a similar occurrence in the future we'll have a point of reference for what's been tried in the past and what a possible solution/approach might be.

Mike Bogle
Email: michael...@gmail.com
Blog: http://techticker.net

[cristina costa]

Hi Amy,
great to hear from you.
I am also quite exciting about this cyber-adventure. I am learninga  lot and connecting to so many people with different background. This can only be good! :-)

Just wanted to mention that you can actually tag email messages (they are called labels in gmail http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6560 ). Not sure about other email providers but gmail allows that and actually I am tagging some of the emails! ;-)

Still haven't made to any of the live sessions either - they are way to early for me ...but will try to wake up around that time, once i come back from Hols. Right now I can only think about geting a place on the sun! LOL
Hopefully I will come back more energized!

cris

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Amy Lenzo <a...@beautydialogues.com> wrote:

Hi all, I haven't piped in here yet, but have read everything and am very much enjoying the three-ring-circus :-)  ooops, I mean course so far!

I've blogged a few posts, wading in to the "technology" and "blog vs mailing list" questions, but that brings me to the point that - unless everyone has a feed for everyone else's blog and reads them all - this is the main way to interact with the group as a whole. So I thought I'd say hi, and while I'm here, invite you to come play on my blog (the link's in my signature).

I wish we had some way of tagging or linking to these mailing list posts, as I've found many of them very stimulating and they offer great jumping off points for our blogs. I suppose one could just cut & paste quotes, but that brings up another question that I haven't yet heard addressed: confidentiality. Do we have permission from everyone to take quotes from this conversational forum, which is private, and paste them into our public blogs (presumably with links to the author's blog)? I assume so, but it might help to make that explicit. Or perhaps it already has been said and I've just missed it. Anyway, I hereby give you all permission to quote my mailing list comments in your blog. :-)

One of the things I find fascinating, especially as we go into this next week of study, is the ambiguity or "play" between us as a group of people doing an online course on facilitating online community, and us as a potential (some might say budding) online community ourselves. I certainly find a close relationship in my own work between facilitating and nurturing/developing/"building" online community and for me this question gives context to all the others that have come up for us so far.

I'm glad to be here - excited about what's happened so far and what's coming! I haven't made it to the "live sessions" on Elluminate yet – but am looking forward to the next one.

Amy

...o0o...
Amy Lenzo
a...@beautydialogues.com
FOC08 Blog: http://allislight.typepad.com/facilitating_online_commu/



 

[Amy Lenzo]

Thanks Christina and Mike! Sorry for not being clearer - I knew I could tag email messages (for myself), but not that I could link to them, although the fact that the email list is private limits that use, as you point out Mike.

Foolishly, I didn’t use my gmail account to sign up for the list, so am in the process of getting Leigh to change it to give me access to the group archives...

Amy


cristina costa8/5/08 7:16 AM

Hi Amy,
great to hear from you.
I am also quite exciting about this cyber-adventure. I am learninga  lot and connecting to so many people with different background. This can only be good! :-)

Just wanted to mention that you can actually tag email messages (they are called labels in gmail http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6560 <http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&amp;answer=6560>  ). Not sure about other email providers but gmail allows that and actually I am tagging some of the emails! ;-)

Still haven't made to any of the live sessions either - they are way to early for me ...but will try to wake up around that time, once i come back from Hols. Right now I can only think about geting a place on the sun! LOL
Hopefully I will come back more energized!

cris

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Amy Lenzo <a...@beautydialogues.com> wrote:

[Leigh Blackall]

Hello Amy, nice to hear from you :)

The posts to the email forum are open. That means anyone can browse the discussions at anytime. And if anyone can browse, then I think it would be a good idea that we - the members, do the quoting and paraphrasing in our blogs and other contexts. All part of us owning our words and taking full responsibility for them. If anyone requires confidentiallity or more privacy, then I'd suggest taking up on some of the other spaces that have been developing in Facebook or Ning.. they could be good places for smaller groups to discuss things in private before joining us again out in the open.

To access the archive of discussion so far: http://groups.google.com/group/facilitating-online-communities

Either browse or search for threads of interest. Each page that you click open has its own URL, and each individual post has its own URL. To get the individual post URLs you must click the "more options" link at the top right of each post.

I think it would be great to see the topics and conversation go wider than the email forum, and become mixed and corss referenced in each of our blogs. That way we might come to see the technologies we are using not as seperate and distributed tools - but as one big technology known as Internet. In some ways we are merely channel surfing - but its all just the TV to me. Also, while the email forum will likely remain the hotbed and primary source of inspiration, the distribution of elements to outside networks improves the chance of new ideas and information coming back to us.

So much potential.. so little time... That's why the more people we have participating, the less each one of us have to do to reach that potential. Hopefully we will talk and think about this idea "many hands make light work" when we focus in on wiki based communities as well as blogging networks in coming weeks.

Regards
Leigh