I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
group at this stage.
Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
I want to ask a few community development questions around these
issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
palpable)...
What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
predominant so early in a group's forming?
Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
this new information on board?
Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
people in the group?
How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
Hi Bron, I completely agree with your observations. I think now is an opportune time for us to step back from the technology and consider the community aspect of what we are doing. Bron, I take it you are ready to lead a discussion on this? Your prompting questions are great - and they will lead us nicely into week 2-3 *What is an online community*<http://wikieducator.org/Facilitating_online_communities#Wks_2_and_3:_...> ?
So, those of us who are ready - let's consider Bron's questions and observations. Let's toss a few ideas around here and prepare to write up something to our blogs on the questions. There are a few readings in week 2-3 of the course wiki that may stimulate ideas - but maybe people have a few things better that we could look at too.
I'm looking forward to reading some of the thinking on Bron's suggestion.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this > group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is > palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so > predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up > this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the > people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
Hi, Bron. Thanks for raising the issues, many of them are my concerns.
I am not one of the expert group. I am struggling for the whole week
and am totally lost. I dont know what to do. There are so many posts,
and many of them full of new terms to me, e.g. Pageflakes, Wordpress,
etc. When I read the info posted and felt really aweful about my
current skills.
To answer your question "What are the risks when the technological in
and outs are so predominant so early in a group's forming? " with my
own feeling, firstly, I was lost. I dont understand what people are
talking about. Instead of getting to know other students, I spends
hours online to research on the terminologies and try to catch up
with the discussion. Secondly, it's a desaster towards my confidence.
I am really stressful now - Oh dear! Can I follow the discussion
through the whole course? Can I cope with the course?
It's good to have many people showing their interests in the course,
but although everyone introduced themselves in the discussion page, I
found it's really hard to have further conversation between peers. So
how can we get to "really" know the others? As a student like me, cant
join the discussion about the techniques, what can I do? I mean, after
say "hi" to others, shall we just look around and then walk away? I
realise it's hard to build up relationship in such a big class. I dont
know if it's practical to have these 80 students ( I guess?) into
several small or medium sized groups will help?
Joy
On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
> group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
> leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
> a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
> shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
> jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
> ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
> tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
> some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
> was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
> predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
> Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
> the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
> as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
> Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
> we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
> the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
> blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
> infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these
> issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
> experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
> palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
> predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
> to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
> essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
> this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
> do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
> people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
> levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
> was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Joy <joy.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Bron. Thanks for raising the issues, many of them are my concerns. > I am not one of the expert group. I am struggling for the whole week > and am totally lost. I dont know what to do. There are so many posts, > and many of them full of new terms to me, e.g. Pageflakes, Wordpress, > etc. When I read the info posted and felt really aweful about my > current skills.
> To answer your question "What are the risks when the technological in > and outs are so predominant so early in a group's forming? " with my > own feeling, firstly, I was lost. I dont understand what people are > talking about. Instead of getting to know other students, I spends > hours online to research on the terminologies and try to catch up > with the discussion. Secondly, it's a desaster towards my confidence. > I am really stressful now - Oh dear! Can I follow the discussion > through the whole course? Can I cope with the course?
> It's good to have many people showing their interests in the course, > but although everyone introduced themselves in the discussion page, I > found it's really hard to have further conversation between peers. So > how can we get to "really" know the others? As a student like me, cant > join the discussion about the techniques, what can I do? I mean, after > say "hi" to others, shall we just look around and then walk away? I > realise it's hard to build up relationship in such a big class. I dont > know if it's practical to have these 80 students ( I guess?) into > several small or medium sized groups will help?
> Joy
> On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this > > group at this stage.
> > Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a > > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of > > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of > > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all > > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the > > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the > > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that > > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it > > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the > > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), > > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, > > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of > > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo > > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop > > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> > I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. > > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and > > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our > > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical > > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> > I want to ask a few community development questions around these > > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and > > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is > > palpable)...
> > What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so > > predominant so early in a group's forming?
> > Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying > > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in > > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up > > this new information on board?
> > Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How > > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the > > people in the group?
> > How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all > > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> > I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it > > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
Technology has indeed seduced the conversation, and it is important to discuss the community intent and desires from our inclusion in this course. We need to acknowledge that it is the technology that allows us to have these communities and therefore I believe it is important that there is discussion on the tools. I personally get to know people by looking into their online identity. I go to their Twitter profile and follow them, look them up on Diigo, explore their delicious tags, view their online photos etc etc.
Discussions on aggregators may have dominated the email group so far, but within there has been relevant discussion that has enabled me to get to know the others in my course.
Bron wrote: > I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this > group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is > palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so > predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up > this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the > people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
For the first week of the course and considering its topic (Orientation), objectives and tasks we were to accomplish (setting up a blog, updating introduction on the course wiki with a link to the blog, setting up an RSS News Reader) it seems to me that the kind of discussions we were having are justified. After all, most of the tasks we were supposed to accomplish are technical tasks. But that is ok for the first week, we all are trying to organize ourselves (using these tools) to get the best possible out of the course. The best way to know the people here is reading what they write or say using every tool they can. But first we need to find a good and easy way to get in touch with the people's ideas. This is what we were trying to do this week. We are trying to organize ourselves to start the "real" course that is starting next week. I am looking forward to the course contents and hope I can cope with the level of it.
> Technology has indeed seduced the conversation, and it is important to > discuss the community intent and desires from our inclusion in this > course. We need to acknowledge that it is the technology that allows us > to have these communities and therefore I believe it is important that > there is discussion on the tools. I personally get to know people by > looking into their online identity. I go to their Twitter profile and > follow them, look them up on Diigo, explore their delicious tags, view > their online photos etc etc
> Discussions on aggregators may have dominated the email group so far, > but within there has been relevant discussion that has enabled me to get > to know the others in my course.
> Bron wrote: > > I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this > > group at this stage.
> > Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a > > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of > > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of > > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all > > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the > > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the > > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that > > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it > > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the > > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), > > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, > > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of > > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo > > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop > > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> > I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. > > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and > > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our > > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical > > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> > I want to ask a few community development questions around these > > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and > > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is > > palpable)...
> > What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so > > predominant so early in a group's forming?
> > Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying > > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in > > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up > > this new information on board?
> > Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How > > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the > > people in the group?
> > How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all > > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> > I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it > > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
Thanks to Bron for raising this topic. As others have stated, I am completely lost and have given up reading the emails. I was hoping that somewhere along the way our paths would cross again and we would join together. My bottom line is : What is it that I need to know and I will focus on that. My concern would be that people that are non-teckies like me will get lost and drop out and the group will remain those that know.
All that said, I am still very very energized by the possibilites.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ::{{FOC}}:: Newbies and experts
From: Bron <bronwyn.stuckey@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, July 30, 2008 10:13 pm
To: Facilitating Online Communities
<facilitating-online-communities@googlegroups.com>
I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
group at this stage.
Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
I want to ask a few community development questions around these
issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
palpable)...
What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
predominant so early in a group's forming?
Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
this new information on board?
Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
people in the group?
How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
I think a good way to get to know the other participants and to make
contact is visiting their blogs and maybe leaving a comment.
I find it very difficult to make contact here, in this google group. I
simply forget who wrote what. But I've read a lot of blog posts, read
about people's hopes and concerns and expectations. I particularly
liked this one:
> Thanks to Bron for raising this topic. As others have stated, I am completely lost and have given up reading the emails. I was hoping that somewhere along the way our paths would cross again and we would join together. My bottom line is : What is it that I need to know and I will focus on that. My concern would be that people that are non-teckies like me will get lost and drop out and the group will remain those that know.
> All that said, I am still very very energized by the possibilites.
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: ::{{FOC}}:: Newbies and experts
> From: Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, July 30, 2008 10:13 pm
> To: Facilitating Online Communities
> <facilitating-online-communities@googlegroups.com>
> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
> group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
> leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
> a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
> shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
> jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
> ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
> tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
> some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
> was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
> predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle,del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
> Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
> the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
> as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
> Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
> we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
> the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
> blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
> infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these
> issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
> experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
> palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
> predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
> to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
> essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
> this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
> do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
> people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
> levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
> was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
> ~ Bron
I know exactly what you mean. I blogged about this a little bit this
morning as part of my own fulfilling of the assignments. I generally
feel comfortable with technology (once I get what purpose it serves
and how it helps me fulfill some need I have; I am not terribly
interested in technology for its own sake), though I have felt a bit
overwhelmed this week as well.
I think you raise an excellent issue; if people get overwhelmed in the
first week, I am not so sure they will wait around until the second
week. For example, I do not have the statistics for how many of the
class participants have contributed to the emails and such here via
Google, but I do not think it was even half the participants (once
again, based on a sense and not on firm data). I am wondering how that
silent group is processing all of this, or if some are overwhelmed and
clinging on for dear life. Like all silent students, we do not know
how they perceive or think until we directly communicate with them.
That may be happening here (I hope), though we just don't know.
In the end, I commend Leigh's wiki and how simple to understand he
makes our assignments for next week. If everything else is noise, just
turn down the volume or, better yet, adjust the frequency to focus on
Leigh (as he is the solid rock at the beginning of a very interesting
ride). I am only suggesting this as I am trying to do the same and am
starting to get my bearings.
> Thanks to Bron for raising this topic. As others have stated, I am completely lost and have given up reading the emails. I was hoping that somewhere along the way our paths would cross again and we would join together. My bottom line is : What is it that I need to know and I will focus on that. My concern would be that people that are non-teckies like me will get lost and drop out and the group will remain those that know.
> All that said, I am still very very energized by the possibilites.
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: ::{{FOC}}:: Newbies and experts
> From: Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, July 30, 2008 10:13 pm
> To: Facilitating Online Communities
> <facilitating-online-communities@googlegroups.com>
> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
> group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
> leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
> a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
> shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
> jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
> ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
> tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
> some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
> was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
> predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle,del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
> Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
> the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
> as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
> Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
> we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
> the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
> blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
> infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these
> issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
> experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
> palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
> predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
> to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
> essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
> this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
> do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
> people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
> levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
> was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
> ~ Bron
Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for
the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.
On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise'
is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and
sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS
feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has
different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This
doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I
guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one
possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.
I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these
threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing
feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and
pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I
may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.
It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the
technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads
addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also
get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest
someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out
there willing to help.
Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this
kind of setting.
I'm going to pop in here with a few comments. I think that we aren't really being side-tracked by our discussion of technology and how to use it these last few days. I see this introductory week as a time for setting the tools in place for our future discussions. I come to it as someone familiar with a number of technologies for online interaction. Though I'm not a complete novice, I have much to learn and already I've been introduced to some things I know nothing about - and it's pushing me to do something I've been dragging my heels on, setting up a blog.
Once we have the technologies in place, we can move forward to our main purpose - learning about and discussing facilitating online communities. To me, the key word here is "facilitating." I don't have much experience in this area and I'm really looking forward to learning something about it. For others, the key word might be "online." I suspect there are people in this community who have lots of experience as facilitators, but are wanting to learn how to do this online rather than face-to-face.
I think what we're all experiencing, to one degree or another, is the "anxiety" of meeting all the new kids at school at the beginning of a new term (or even more, at moving to a new school altogether) and not knowing how we all fit in the class. I'm pretty sure this will all settle down once we get going.
Now, back to struggling with my blog.
Cheers - from a grey and rainy day in Vancouver, Mary-Doug
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:23 PM, <illya.ar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for > the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.
> On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise' > is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and > sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS > feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has > different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This > doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I > guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one > possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.
> I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these > threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing > feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and > pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I > may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.
> It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the > technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads > addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also > get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest > someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out > there willing to help.
> Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this > kind of setting.
-- Mary-Doug Wright, B.Sc., M.L.S. Apex Information #101 - 1857 West 4th Avenue Vancouver, BC Canada V6J 1M4 604-731-8562 (p) 604-730-9608 (f) mdwri...@apexinformation.com http://www.apexinformation.com
Most excellent responses so far. Very reassuring to see how quickly we have managed to embrace Bron's challenge and negotiate meaning through the proposed polarity.
I must say, I so far agree with the points set by Shane and Joao, that technology is what we must use in order to commune and so it is inevitable that we talk technology - at least in the initial stages of our meeting.
But equally important is for those without technical confidence to speak up and seek guidance - or for those with empathy for them, to speak up on their behalf and make room for their voices.
In a face to face meeting (with a facilitator), too often I see people who are confident with acronyms, institution speak, and in-jokes show no empathy for people without their level of confidence, and so allow their group to drift and struggle without negotiating a shared understanding.
There is arguably a commonality therefore between what a facilitator might do in a face to face meeting, with what they might do in an online meeting such as this. Identifying the potentially alienating aspects of a discussion and helping the group to negotiate a common appreciation of those topics.
I think we have a good start to the course out of all this... so far...
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Mary-Doug Wright <
> I'm going to pop in here with a few comments. I think that we aren't > really being side-tracked by our discussion of technology and how to > use it these last few days. I see this introductory week as a time for > setting the tools in place for our future discussions. I come to it as > someone familiar with a number of technologies for online interaction. > Though I'm not a complete novice, I have much to learn and already > I've been introduced to some things I know nothing about - and it's > pushing me to do something I've been dragging my heels on, setting up > a blog.
> Once we have the technologies in place, we can move forward to our > main purpose - learning about and discussing facilitating online > communities. To me, the key word here is "facilitating." I don't have > much experience in this area and I'm really looking forward to > learning something about it. For others, the key word might be > "online." I suspect there are people in this community who have lots > of experience as facilitators, but are wanting to learn how to do this > online rather than face-to-face.
> I think what we're all experiencing, to one degree or another, is the > "anxiety" of meeting all the new kids at school at the beginning of a > new term (or even more, at moving to a new school altogether) and not > knowing how we all fit in the class. I'm pretty sure this will all > settle down once we get going.
> Now, back to struggling with my blog.
> Cheers - from a grey and rainy day in Vancouver, > Mary-Doug
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:23 PM, <illya.ar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for > > the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.
> > On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise' > > is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and > > sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS > > feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has > > different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This > > doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I > > guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one > > possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.
> > I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these > > threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing > > feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and > > pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I > > may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.
> > It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the > > technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads > > addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also > > get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest > > someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out > > there willing to help.
> > Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this > > kind of setting.
Exactly the way I feel, Mary. Liked the image you used with the kids that go to school for the first time in their lives and feel a bit intimidated by the crowd. So, please just relax, take it easy (do you know the song?) and everything will be just fine. We have an amazing group and and amazing facilitator who are always ready to help one another.
I think that "Facilitating" should be the key word for everyone here because, in my opinion, that is the most important point of the course, whether it's online or face-to-face. Even if someone already knows how to facilitate a course face-to-face, facilitating online must be different because the setting is a completely different one, too. I don't have any experience in any one of them but I would very much like to learn how to be a facilitator in an online learning environment.
> I'm going to pop in here with a few comments. I think that we aren't > really being side-tracked by our discussion of technology and how to > use it these last few days. I see this introductory week as a time for > setting the tools in place for our future discussions. I come to it as > someone familiar with a number of technologies for online interaction. > Though I'm not a complete novice, I have much to learn and already > I've been introduced to some things I know nothing about - and it's > pushing me to do something I've been dragging my heels on, setting up > a blog.
> Once we have the technologies in place, we can move forward to our > main purpose - learning about and discussing facilitating online > communities. To me, the key word here is "facilitating." I don't have > much experience in this area and I'm really looking forward to > learning something about it. For others, the key word might be > "online." I suspect there are people in this community who have lots > of experience as facilitators, but are wanting to learn how to do this > online rather than face-to-face.
> I think what we're all experiencing, to one degree or another, is the > "anxiety" of meeting all the new kids at school at the beginning of a > new term (or even more, at moving to a new school altogether) and not > knowing how we all fit in the class. I'm pretty sure this will all > settle down once we get going.
> Now, back to struggling with my blog.
> Cheers - from a grey and rainy day in Vancouver, > Mary-Doug
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:23 PM, <illya.ar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for > > the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.
> > On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise' > > is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and > > sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS > > feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has > > different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This > > doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I > > guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one > > possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.
> > I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these > > threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing > > feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and > > pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I > > may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.
> > It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the > > technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads > > addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also > > get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest > > someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out > > there willing to help.
> > Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this > > kind of setting.
Thanks Mary-Doug, Illya, Jeffrey, Lynne, Joao, Shane and Joy,
It seems obvious that those experienced with the technology would want
to first get all the connective technology in place in order to make
sense of the interaction and networking of this course. I think we all
work from the knowledge and successful practices that we have in our
armory. My concern is that aggregating blogs and comparing the
technical capabilities of a so many tools is like intergalactic travel
to someone who has not yet wrapped their head around what a blog is
and why they would want to use one.
Some people will need a more moderate entry into the technical
activity and will be more used to getting to know people through
discussions and introductions.
I don't think a workshop can afford to assume that the level of
visible the conversation, which this has rapidly escalated to, is
meeting the needs of all people who came here to learn. As Jeffrey
says many of those facing frustration, already feeling positioned in a
deficit mode, may not speak up and may simply throw their hands up!
Can we simply say to people learn to deal - even though what they are
learning to deal with is the way of Web2.0. I think it is beholding on
us a community facilitators to consider the welfare of everyone in the
community and to work to support them at their level not simply expect
everyone to measure up to the most experienced. How do we identify
people needing more guidance or support? How likely are people to
speak up and say they are lost in a large amorphous group like this
where there seems to be a high level of technical expertise. People
often need some relationships in place before they ask people for help
privately let alone publicly. The technology is an enabler it is not
the community.
~ Bron
I do not think we are talking about
On Aug 1, 8:19 am, "Mary-Doug Wright" <apex.informat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm going to pop in here with a few comments. I think that we aren't
> really being side-tracked by our discussion of technology and how to
> use it these last few days. I see this introductory week as a time for
> setting the tools in place for our future discussions. I come to it as
> someone familiar with a number of technologies for online interaction.
> Though I'm not a complete novice, I have much to learn and already
> I've been introduced to some things I know nothing about - and it's
> pushing me to do something I've been dragging my heels on, setting up
> a blog.
> Once we have the technologies in place, we can move forward to our
> main purpose - learning about and discussing facilitating online
> communities. To me, the key word here is "facilitating." I don't have
> much experience in this area and I'm really looking forward to
> learning something about it. For others, the key word might be
> "online." I suspect there are people in this community who have lots
> of experience as facilitators, but are wanting to learn how to do this
> online rather than face-to-face.
> I think what we're all experiencing, to one degree or another, is the
> "anxiety" of meeting all the new kids at school at the beginning of a
> new term (or even more, at moving to a new school altogether) and not
> knowing how we all fit in the class. I'm pretty sure this will all
> settle down once we get going.
> Now, back to struggling with my blog.
> Cheers - from a grey and rainy day in Vancouver,
> Mary-Doug
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:23 PM, <illya.ar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for
> > the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.
> > On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise'
> > is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and
> > sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS
> > feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has
> > different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This
> > doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I
> > guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one
> > possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.
> > I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these
> > threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing
> > feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and
> > pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I
> > may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.
> > It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the
> > technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads
> > addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also
> > get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest
> > someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out
> > there willing to help.
> > Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this
> > kind of setting.
Hi Bron, Thank you for sharing your concerns. I am both task and relationship oriented in my teaching and learning. However, what is suitable for me may not be for others. I like to ask how others feel so that we can share our goals and needs before starting a course. The answers are not always there because some learners have difficulties reflecting and verbalizing how they feel. Personally, I would love to know about others learning preferences when it comes to using technology. But then, that's what the blogs are for, aren't they?
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this > group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is > palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so > predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up > this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the > people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
These comments are helpful. One of the concerns I have is that getting
people to engage meaningfully using technology seems to be linked to
the simplicity of the technology. Simple instructions that lead to
success generate further exploration.
On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
> group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
> leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
> a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
> shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
> jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
> ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
> tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
> some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
> was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
> predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
> Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
> the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
> as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
> Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
> we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
> the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
> blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
> infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these
> issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
> experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
> palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
> predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
> to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
> essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
> this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
> do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
> people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
> levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
> was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
What I appreciate about Bron's email is that it reminds me that we can learn to take care of our own community right now in this slightly messy phase. How do we make sure everyone feels included? What is those that are up on technical stuff had some open sessions to answer questions to the ones that are lost? We also had the excellent suggestion that we form buddies - and I thank Jeffrey for being willing to buddy me and to Bron for suggesting it.
I wonder if those folks that are lost or getting lost (me included) could just shout out?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ::{{FOC}}:: Re: Newbies and experts
From: Bron <bronwyn.stuckey@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, July 31, 2008 4:10 pm
To: Facilitating Online Communities
<facilitating-online-communities@googlegroups.com>
Thanks Mary-Doug, Illya, Jeffrey, Lynne, Joao, Shane and Joy,
It seems obvious that those experienced with the technology would want
to first get all the connective technology in place in order to make
sense of the interaction and networking of this course. I think we all
work from the knowledge and successful practices that we have in our
armory. My concern is that aggregating blogs and comparing the
technical capabilities of a so many tools is like intergalactic travel
to someone who has not yet wrapped their head around what a blog is
and why they would want to use one.
Some people will need a more moderate entry into the technical
activity and will be more used to getting to know people through
discussions and introductions.
I don't think a workshop can afford to assume that the level of
visible the conversation, which this has rapidly escalated to, is
meeting the needs of all people who came here to learn. As Jeffrey
says many of those facing frustration, already feeling positioned in a
deficit mode, may not speak up and may simply throw their hands up!
Can we simply say to people learn to deal - even though what they are
learning to deal with is the way of Web2.0. I think it is beholding on
us a community facilitators to consider the welfare of everyone in the
community and to work to support them at their level not simply expect
everyone to measure up to the most experienced. How do we identify
people needing more guidance or support? How likely are people to
speak up and say they are lost in a large amorphous group like this
where there seems to be a high level of technical expertise. People
often need some relationships in place before they ask people for help
privately let alone publicly. The technology is an enabler it is not
the community.
~ Bron
I do not think we are talking about
On Aug 1, 8:19 am, "Mary-Doug Wright" <apex.informat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I'm going to pop in here with a few comments. I think that we aren't
> really being side-tracked by our discussion of technology and how to
> use it these last few days. I see this introductory week as a time for
> setting the tools in place for our future discussions. I come to it as
> someone familiar with a number of technologies for online interaction.
> Though I'm not a complete novice, I have much to learn and already
> I've been introduced to some things I know nothing about - and it's
> pushing me to do something I've been dragging my heels on, setting up
> a blog.
>
> Once we have the technologies in place, we can move forward to our
> main purpose - learning about and discussing facilitating online
> communities. To me, the key word here is "facilitating." I don't have
> much experience in this area and I'm really looking forward to
> learning something about it. For others, the key word might be
> "online." I suspect there are people in this community who have lots
> of experience as facilitators, but are wanting to learn how to do this
> online rather than face-to-face.
>
> I think what we're all experiencing, to one degree or another, is the
> "anxiety" of meeting all the new kids at school at the beginning of a
> new term (or even more, at moving to a new school altogether) and not
> knowing how we all fit in the class. I'm pretty sure this will all
> settle down once we get going.
>
> Now, back to struggling with my blog.
>
> Cheers - from a grey and rainy day in Vancouver,
> Mary-Doug
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:23 PM, <illya.ar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for
> > the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.
>
> > On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise'
> > is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and
> > sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS
> > feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has
> > different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This
> > doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I
> > guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one
> > possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.
>
> > I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these
> > threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing
> > feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and
> > pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I
> > may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.
>
> > It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the
> > technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads
> > addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also
> > get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest
> > someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out
> > there willing to help.
>
> > Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this
> > kind of setting.
>
> --
> Mary-Doug Wright, B.Sc., M.L.S.
> Apex Information
> #101 - 1857 West 4th Avenue
> Vancouver, BC Canada V6J 1M4
> 604-731-8562 (p)
> 604-730-9608 (f)
> mdwri...@apexinformation.com target=_blank href="http://www.apexinformation.com">http://www.apexinformation.com
What if those that are up on technical stuff had some open sessions to
> answer questions to the ones that are lost?
Remember the meeting room <http://tinyurl.com/6ne2uv>? It is open 24/7 :) Which means it is always there for spontaneous meetings and help sessions. Using Elluminate in this way is a bit of an experiment for me - so apologies if it turns out not to work as I hope. (I use Elluminate because it is reliable for people on dial up. Nellie's suggestion to use another meeting space would be good to try out later I think - once we are more confident together with what we have).
Perhaps, some of us should consider occupying the meeting room whenever we are online - just have it running in the background so that if people did just pop in for a look, there would be more or a chance for those spontaneous help sessions. Even better if others did the same... suggestion: if you do pop in and see someone else in there, use the mic to shout out.. they might be looking at another screen or be away from the computer a bit..
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:20 AM, <ly...@gillilandjud.com> wrote: > What I appreciate about Bron's email is that it reminds me that we can > learn to take care of our own community right now in this slightly messy > phase. How do we make sure everyone feels included? What is those that > are up on technical stuff had some open sessions to answer questions to the > ones that are lost? We also had the excellent suggestion that we form > buddies - and I thank Jeffrey for being willing to buddy me and to Bron for > suggesting it.
> I wonder if those folks that are lost or getting lost (me included) could > just shout out?
> -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: ::{{FOC}}:: Re: Newbies and experts > From: Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> > Date: Thu, July 31, 2008 4:10 pm > To: Facilitating Online Communities > <facilitating-online-communities@googlegroups.com>
> Thanks Mary-Doug, Illya, Jeffrey, Lynne, Joao, Shane and Joy,
> It seems obvious that those experienced with the technology would want > to first get all the connective technology in place in order to make > sense of the interaction and networking of this course. I think we all > work from the knowledge and successful practices that we have in our > armory. My concern is that aggregating blogs and comparing the > technical capabilities of a so many tools is like intergalactic travel > to someone who has not yet wrapped their head around what a blog is > and why they would want to use one.
> Some people will need a more moderate entry into the technical > activity and will be more used to getting to know people through > discussions and introductions. > I don't think a workshop can afford to assume that the level of > visible the conversation, which this has rapidly escalated to, is > meeting the needs of all people who came here to learn. As Jeffrey > says many of those facing frustration, already feeling positioned in a > deficit mode, may not speak up and may simply throw their hands up! > Can we simply say to people learn to deal - even though what they are > learning to deal with is the way of Web2.0. I think it is beholding on > us a community facilitators to consider the welfare of everyone in the > community and to work to support them at their level not simply expect > everyone to measure up to the most experienced. How do we identify > people needing more guidance or support? How likely are people to > speak up and say they are lost in a large amorphous group like this > where there seems to be a high level of technical expertise. People > often need some relationships in place before they ask people for help > privately let alone publicly. The technology is an enabler it is not > the community.
> ~ Bron
> I do not think we are talking about
> On Aug 1, 8:19 am, "Mary-Doug Wright" <apex.informat...@gmail.com<#11b7b6c0de484789_Compose>
> wrote: > > Hi all
> > I'm going to pop in here with a few comments. I think that we aren't > > really being side-tracked by our discussion of technology and how to > > use it these last few days. I see this introductory week as a time for > > setting the tools in place for our future discussions. I come to it as > > someone familiar with a number of technologies for online interaction. > > Though I'm not a complete novice, I have much to learn and already > > I've been introduced to some things I know nothing about - and it's > > pushing me to do something I've been dragging my heels on, setting up > > a blog.
> > Once we have the technologies in place, we can move forward to our > > main purpose - learning about and discussing facilitating online > > communities. To me, the key word here is "facilitating." I don't have > > much experience in this area and I'm really looking forward to > > learning something about it. For others, the key word might be > > "online." I suspect there are people in this community who have lots > > of experience as facilitators, but are wanting to learn how to do this > > online rather than face-to-face.
> > I think what we're all experiencing, to one degree or another, is the > > "anxiety" of meeting all the new kids at school at the beginning of a > > new term (or even more, at moving to a new school altogether) and not > > knowing how we all fit in the class. I'm pretty sure this will all > > settle down once we get going.
> > Now, back to struggling with my blog.
> > Cheers - from a grey and rainy day in Vancouver, > > Mary-Doug
> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:23 PM, < <#11b7b6c0de484789_Compose>illya.ar > ....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Bron's message is certainly much more than noise and I'm thankful for > > > the nudge back to discussion about the communities themselves.
> > > On the other hand, I feel the same as Joao that the technical 'noise' > > > is a part of orienting myself with the best means of communication and > > > sharing. In my opinion, this goes hand in hand with setting up RSS > > > feeds and blogs, and figuring out Elluminate. Yet each person has > > > different strategies for oranizing and preparing themselves. This > > > doesn't need to exclude conversation or detract from main issues. I > > > guess this is one of the reasons why there is more than one > > > possibility or platform for discussion to take place on.
> > > I am getting an idea of the others on the course through these > > > threads. Of course, with so many participants it would be an amazing > > > feat to get to know everyone, and so, as Leigh suggests, I skim and > > > pay more attention to some messages and less to others. Some threads I > > > may choose to completely ignore and others to closely follow.
> > > It would be very sad if people were to drop out simply because of the > > > technical chatter, especially since it is up to us to make new threads > > > addressing issues which we feel are relevant and interesting. I also > > > get the feeling that if a certain technological feature interest > > > someone or is creating problems, there are several participants out > > > there willing to help.
> > > Perhaps one of the things we need to learn is how to 'mill' in this > > > kind of setting.
Many online instructors seem to ignore the importance of providing clear instructions. But then, what may be simple and clear instructions for one, may be unclear for someone else. Instructions for the assignments are always an issue for my colleagues at the University of Phoenix. No one is ever 100% sure what they need to do unless there is a grading rubric that specifies the criteria for the assignment. A grading rubric seems to work for most online learners.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Russ <ruth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> These comments are helpful. One of the concerns I have is that getting > people to engage meaningfully using technology seems to be linked to > the simplicity of the technology. Simple instructions that lead to > success generate further exploration.
> On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this > > group at this stage.
> > Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a > > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of > > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of > > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all > > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the > > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the > > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that > > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it > > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the > > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), > > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, > > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of > > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo > > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop > > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> > I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. > > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and > > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our > > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical > > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> > I want to ask a few community development questions around these > > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and > > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is > > palpable)...
> > What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so > > predominant so early in a group's forming?
> > Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying > > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in > > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up > > this new information on board?
> > Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How > > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the > > people in the group?
> > How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all > > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> > I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it > > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
A grading rubric seems to work for most online learners.
Hmm, that's 2 people who have suggested such a thing. I will consult with the sponsoring institution and devise a more specific assessment criteria next week and add it to the course wiki. As you suggest Nellie, this should help to clarify aspects that may be lost in translation with what we have there for the assignments already. To be honest, it has been on my to-do list for some time but I find it hard to motivate myself for such things *_* But I agree, it is a worth while thing to do.
nellie.muller.deut...@gmail.com> wrote: > Many online instructors seem to ignore the importance of providing clear > instructions. But then, what may be simple and clear instructions for one, > may be unclear for someone else. Instructions for the assignments are always > an issue for my colleagues at the University of Phoenix. No one is ever 100% > sure what they need to do unless there is a grading rubric that specifies > the criteria for the assignment. A grading rubric seems to work for most > online learners.
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Russ <ruth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> These comments are helpful. One of the concerns I have is that getting >> people to engage meaningfully using technology seems to be linked to >> the simplicity of the technology. Simple instructions that lead to >> success generate further exploration.
>> On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this >> > group at this stage.
>> > Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a >> > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of >> > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of >> > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all >> > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the >> > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the >> > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that >> > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it >> > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the >> > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), >> > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, >> > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of >> > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo >> > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop >> > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
>> > I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. >> > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and >> > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our >> > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical >> > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
>> > I want to ask a few community development questions around these >> > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and >> > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is >> > palpable)...
>> > What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so >> > predominant so early in a group's forming?
>> > Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying >> > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in >> > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up >> > this new information on board?
>> > Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How >> > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the >> > people in the group?
>> > How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all >> > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
>> > I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it >> > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
Leigh, Maybe some of the more experienced online instructors can collaborate and create a rubric for the course. The initiative may count as a bonus. :)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Leigh Blackall <leighblack...@gmail.com>wrote:
> A grading rubric seems to work for most online learners.
> Hmm, that's 2 people who have suggested such a thing. I will consult with > the sponsoring institution and devise a more specific assessment criteria > next week and add it to the course wiki. As you suggest Nellie, this should > help to clarify aspects that may be lost in translation with what we have > there for the assignments already. To be honest, it has been on my to-do > list for some time but I find it hard to motivate myself for such things > *_* But I agree, it is a worth while thing to do.
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:32 PM, NELLIE DEUTSCH < > nellie.muller.deut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Many online instructors seem to ignore the importance of >> providing clear instructions. But then, what may be simple and clear >> instructions for one, may be unclear for someone else. Instructions for the >> assignments are always an issue for my colleagues at the University of >> Phoenix. No one is ever 100% sure what they need to do unless there is a >> grading rubric that specifies the criteria for the assignment. A grading >> rubric seems to work for most online learners.
>> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Russ <ruth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> These comments are helpful. One of the concerns I have is that getting >>> people to engage meaningfully using technology seems to be linked to >>> the simplicity of the technology. Simple instructions that lead to >>> success generate further exploration.
>>> On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this >>> > group at this stage.
>>> > Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a >>> > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of >>> > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of >>> > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all >>> > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the >>> > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the >>> > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that >>> > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it >>> > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the >>> > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), >>> > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, >>> > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of >>> > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo >>> > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop >>> > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
>>> > I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. >>> > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and >>> > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our >>> > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical >>> > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
>>> > I want to ask a few community development questions around these >>> > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and >>> > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is >>> > palpable)...
>>> > What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so >>> > predominant so early in a group's forming?
>>> > Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying >>> > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in >>> > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up >>> > this new information on board?
>>> > Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How >>> > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the >>> > people in the group?
>>> > How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all >>> > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
>>> > I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it >>> > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
nellie.muller.deut...@gmail.com> wrote: > Leigh, > Maybe some of the more experienced online instructors can collaborate and > create a rubric for the course. The initiative may count as a bonus. :)
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Leigh Blackall <leighblack...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> A grading rubric seems to work for most online learners.
>> Hmm, that's 2 people who have suggested such a thing. I will consult with >> the sponsoring institution and devise a more specific assessment criteria >> next week and add it to the course wiki. As you suggest Nellie, this should >> help to clarify aspects that may be lost in translation with what we have >> there for the assignments already. To be honest, it has been on my to-do >> list for some time but I find it hard to motivate myself for such things >> *_* But I agree, it is a worth while thing to do.
>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:32 PM, NELLIE DEUTSCH < >> nellie.muller.deut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Many online instructors seem to ignore the importance of >>> providing clear instructions. But then, what may be simple and clear >>> instructions for one, may be unclear for someone else. Instructions for the >>> assignments are always an issue for my colleagues at the University of >>> Phoenix. No one is ever 100% sure what they need to do unless there is a >>> grading rubric that specifies the criteria for the assignment. A grading >>> rubric seems to work for most online learners.
>>> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Russ <ruth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> These comments are helpful. One of the concerns I have is that getting >>>> people to engage meaningfully using technology seems to be linked to >>>> the simplicity of the technology. Simple instructions that lead to >>>> success generate further exploration.
>>>> On Jul 31, 5:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this >>>> > group at this stage.
>>>> > Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a >>>> > leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of >>>> > a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of >>>> > shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all >>>> > jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the >>>> > ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the >>>> > tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that >>>> > some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it >>>> > was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the >>>> > predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), >>>> > Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, >>>> > Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of >>>> > the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo >>>> > as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop >>>> > Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
>>>> > I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. >>>> > we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and >>>> > the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our >>>> > blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical >>>> > infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
>>>> > I want to ask a few community development questions around these >>>> > issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and >>>> > experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is >>>> > palpable)...
>>>> > What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so >>>> > predominant so early in a group's forming?
>>>> > Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying >>>> > to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in >>>> > essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up >>>> > this new information on board?
>>>> > Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How >>>> > do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the >>>> > people in the group?
>>>> > How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all >>>> > levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
>>>> > I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it >>>> > was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
To be honest Bron, I think the use of Blogs themselves is an issue for
some. See my seperate thread on this. It is not as simple to set up a
blog and to follow others as using a discussion forum where you simply
post and reply to people openly. In addition the way the two
technologies work is different. Forums are many to many in that anyone
can post and anyone can reply to anyone and anyone can see the posts
and replies. Although Blogs are similar the method of commenting is
not as straight forward and the result in effect is not a many to many
connection as one person posts and then 1 person responds. I'm not
sure this is clear or quite correct. I hope you get the idea. In
addition you must go to many blogs or aggregate many blogs. This is
not necessary with a discussion forum. Discussion forums are good for
discussion. Blogs are good for individual reflection. I'm not
convinced they are exactly equivalent nor that they should be used in
similar ways...
On Jul 31, 3:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this
> group at this stage.
> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a
> leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of
> a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of
> shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all
> jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the
> ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the
> tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that
> some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it
> was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the
> predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs),
> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML,
> Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of
> the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo
> as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop
> Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation.
> we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and
> the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our
> blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical
> infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
> I want to ask a few community development questions around these
> issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and
> experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is
> palpable)...
> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so
> predominant so early in a group's forming?
> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying
> to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in
> essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up
> this new information on board?
> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How
> do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the
> people in the group?
> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all
> levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it
> was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
For me blogs do not create conversation. Blogs, their comments and the association of blogs by authors mentioning, responding to and questioning other bloggers through their post seems largely one-to-one held in a public space. Comments exemplify this as they are often singular individual responses they don't seem to move people to join in and contribute in the same way perhaps that threaded discussions do.They are also by nature usually very short quips or questions and do not go anywhere near the depth of thinking that we have seen here in this threaded discussion.
I have to say that I am very much enjoying both - reading blogs and engaging in this Googlegroup email conversation. One thing I totally appreciate is receiving email of the group messages and being able to respond via email. This "push" version of the dialog, comparable to the feeds from blogs without the immediacy of response, puts things clearly on my radar and makes scanning to keep abreast of all the juicy issues so much easier.
Maybe others might want to comment here to Andrew's thoughtful differentiation and tell us if they have experienced blogging as a conversation. I know they are community building tools as I have watched relationships grow and groups form around blogger associations.
Andrew Chambers wrote: > To be honest Bron, I think the use of Blogs themselves is an issue for > some. See my seperate thread on this. It is not as simple to set up a > blog and to follow others as using a discussion forum where you simply > post and reply to people openly. In addition the way the two > technologies work is different. Forums are many to many in that anyone > can post and anyone can reply to anyone and anyone can see the posts > and replies. Although Blogs are similar the method of commenting is > not as straight forward and the result in effect is not a many to many > connection as one person posts and then 1 person responds. I'm not > sure this is clear or quite correct. I hope you get the idea. In > addition you must go to many blogs or aggregate many blogs. This is > not necessary with a discussion forum. Discussion forums are good for > discussion. Blogs are good for individual reflection. I'm not > convinced they are exactly equivalent nor that they should be used in > similar ways...
> On Jul 31, 3:13 pm, Bron <bronwyn.stuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am feeling for people new facilitating online communities in this >> group at this stage.
>> Having had a very similar experience in a recent workshop I was a >> leading, I am am concerned. This group has the experts and novices of >> a mature community but not the advantage of the slow development of >> shared expertise that a mature community would build. We have all >> jumped in together on day 1 and started to make associations in the >> ways we know how to. Some of us know how well served we can be by the >> tools and are excited to share that. The difficult thing here is that >> some of us who are more expert with the technologies forget what it >> was like to be a novice/newbie. Already three days here the >> predominant discussions include blogs (Blogger, Wordpress, Edublogs), >> Pageflakes, Netvibes, iGoogle, del.icio.us, GoogleReader, RSS, OPML, >> Moodle, NING, subscriptions, tags etc etc etc. More expert members of >> the group have set up sites for the group like Google Reader and Diigo >> as other environments for the group to consider beyond the workshop >> Googlegroup, wiki and 24/7 meeting room.
>> I also note how readily the technology has seduced the conversation. >> we are not talking about the kinds of communities we all belong to and >> the reasons we are interested in this course (yes I know that is our >> blog task - perhaps lost or buried in all the verbiage) - technical >> infrastructure is dominating the Google group discussion.
>> I want to ask a few community development questions around these >> issues while we are actually experiencing this to invite newbies and >> experts to say what they think (and for some the sense of overwhelm is >> palpable)...
>> What are the risks when the technological in and outs are so >> predominant so early in a group's forming?
>> Does the amount of information and number of tools people are trying >> to wrap their heads around detract from the tasks at hand an in >> essence become noise on the network if people are not ready to take up >> this new information on board?
>> Is it wise to get to know tools before we get to know each other? How >> do I know whose blog I might like to follow if I do not know the >> people in the group?
>> How do we effectively scaffold and support community members at all >> levels of a practice when a new group like this is forming?
>> I apologize if for you this new topic is just more noise - I hoped it >> was a chance to talk about and reflect on how we have begun.
Interestingly I find it far more difficult to keep up with the conversation on discussion forums and email lists than blogs - particularly with respect to the volume of posts that come through. With this google group for example I only manage to read one in 10 messages that comes through (if that) and I feel like I'm really missing out on the conversation.
In that sense I think usage preference really comes into play. It also raises the issue of centralised versus decentralised conversations.
In the case of blogs I think conversations do take place, but it's of a much different nature than discussion forums. With forums you have one spot where all the activity takes place. In blogs it's spread across a few or even many different locations. With certain topics it can become what's known as a "meme" - or a topic that is discussed by numerous people.
I do notice a sort of informal convention with blog-based conversations which is worth mentioning here. Personally speaking, when I have a thought that relates specifically to the post I'm reading - either as feedback, or a suggestion, or an annecdote - I'm likely to leave that as a comment on the post itself. As Bron was saying, these do tend to be shorter than the blog posts themselves and may not necessarily push the conversation along in a really meaningful way.
However when the content of a post inspires me to in depth reflection I'm more than likely to post something elaborate on my own blog and link to the originating entry as a trackback**. In many ways this does represent an addition to the conversation, but it's of a much different nature than what you see on discussion forums.
**NB: Trackbacks are notifications sent to the author of a blog indicating someone else has referenced their post. They tend to appear in the comments area as a reference to the new post to help tie the discussions together.
The result in the blogosphere is a conversational "web" in which a topic is being covered and progressed by a decentralised network of bloggers. On the topic of "what constitutes a community" I would argue that edubloggers (bloggers with an educational interest or focus) do constitute a community - but in a much different sense to what most people associate with the term.
So if you can consider blog posts that inform and influence each other as related "conversations", then the discussions you see in blogging may/could be as considered as considered - or perhaps even more so - than those you see in discussion forums.
That said I can definitely understand why people who favour discussion forums or email lists have an aversion - or at least difficulty acclimating - to the notion if blogs. The whole concept of communication and how conversations take place is inherently different with blogs and in some ways it favours certain usage preferences.
In that sense I think having both blogs and discussion forums/email lists is really important in a course like this, because almost certainly one technology won't appeal to everyone - so you need to provide a range of conversational vehicles in order to accommodate the needs and learning preferences of as many people as possible.
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