futur of Ingres
gcharrier
Hi,
one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess the
latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
Server, Oracle).
This is not because of performance or stabililty problems (Ingres is OK
with this), but i think he would be sure CA will continue to support
the product (are enought licences sold every years ? what about new
versions ?)
I read that IBM sold 34% of the database licences last year, Oracle did
32%, Microsoft 16% and sybase 3%. I guess Ingres is in the 10 other
percents...
Does these figures means CA sells less and less licences and that Ingres
will soon desapear ?
I heard that the Ingres French User Group was closed few months ago too.
Has anyone more precise figure on how much licences CA sold this year.
Our customer would like to know if it is ok to spend money on ingres and
start new projets using this DB ?
Thanks
--
Posted via http://dbforums.com
M.Cressey
your applications so that they use ODBC / ADO to access the database and try
to avoid the more arcane Ingres features.
Hopefully then you can use any database that supports ODBC with the minimum
of changes to the application. If you want to switch over it should be just
a matter of migrating the data and changing your datasources / connection
strings.
Pirvu, Armand
to mention 24x7. That is a mimic of a DBMS not a real one. As to Oracle,
it is an option but if your customer wants to put money in the sink for
ever, let him buy Oracle. Somebody told me that Oracle is a bitch,
untill you manage to configure and tune it. It is a bitch, but can one
say at a point in time that yes is configured and tuned?
As far as the Oracle applications , like portal etc etc, you are talking
about nightmares, close to suicidal intentions. Trust me.
I doubt that CA will drop it out of hands, especially when it also
became the core support for products like Unicenter.
I have been working with Ingres for a long time. I have to admit that CA
support has had their share of trouble so to speak, but lately they are
really good. From this perspective, I remember I called Oracle support
one time and guess what ?
They asked where do I know the number from ? Man, I bought the licenses
AND the support so give me a break. I argued for two hours with them.
Cleared it out , but obviously not my choice for future.
Armand
Karl & Betty Schendel
>Hi,
>
>one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess the
>latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
>with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
>Server, Oracle).
>This is not because of performance or stabililty problems (Ingres is OK
>with this), but i think he would be sure CA will continue to support
>the product (are enought licences sold every years ? what about new
>versions ?)
CA will continue to support Ingres for quite a long time at the very
least. This has little to do with how many licenses they sell, and
everything to do with the fact that CA is committed to embedding Ingres
into other CA products that use a database repository. Ingres has
seen significant development in the last few years, and this will
continue. There is at least a year's worth of committed development
enhancements that I have heard about, with plenty of ideas floating
around for the more distant future.
I think it is safe to say that Ingres will be around for as long as
CA needs it for its other products, and that is likely to be a long time.
Changing to another DBMS just to follow the market is an incredibly
wasteful and costly exercise. If your customer has that much money
to waste, just have them send it to me.
--
Karl R. Schendel, Jr.
K/B Computer Associates sche...@kbcomputer.com
Ingres, Unix, VMS
Croker, Grant
We have just started publishing a number of white papers, one of which includes a product roadmap for Ingres. You can find these papers on http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/CollateralList.asp?CCT=19505&ID=1013
As for user groups closing, this fall/autumn has seen a number of successful user group events / road shows in the US and across Europe (UK, France, Spain, Germany and Finland).
Regards
grant
-----Original Message-----
From: gcharrier [mailto:mem...@dbforums.com]
Sent: 18 December 2002 08:35
To: info-...@ams.org
Subject: futur of Ingres
Hi,
one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess the
latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
Server, Oracle).
This is not because of performance or stabililty problems (Ingres is OK
with this), but i think he would be sure CA will continue to support
the product (are enought licences sold every years ? what about new
versions ?)
I read that IBM sold 34% of the database licences last year, Oracle did
32%, Microsoft 16% and sybase 3%. I guess Ingres is in the 10 other
percents...
calja03
CA have no intention of discontinuing support for Ingres (now known as
Advantage Ingres). The product is being actively developed (as it has
been in the 8 or so years since CA acquired the ASK Group).
We are currently shipping Advantage Ingres Vn2.6 and the next
release (Vn. 2.65) will be going into beta in the first half of
next year (2003). Subsequent releases are 'on the drawing board'
and the development team have plenty to keep them busy for the
foreseeable future.
As to sales, we are doing good business with Advantage Ingres, though
the way we now report our revenue means that we look to be selling less
than we actually do. (We report revenue on a month by month basis rather
than the whole value of the contract in one go).
We are also using Advantage Ingres in many of our other products so that
far from shrinking, the user base is actually growing. This in itself
guarantees the future of Ingres, since so much of our own technology
relies on it.
We have recently run a series of Roadshows across Europe in conjunction
with local User Groups (France had one of the largest attendances) which
were very well received - feedback shows that users are happy with the
product direction.
It has never been CA policy to disclose revenue figures for an
individual product, but I can say that the user base is growing. New
projects are being developed on Advantage Ingres and if we at CA are
happy to use it (we drink our own champagne!) then your client can be
confident that not only is Ingres is here to stay, but it's as good as
it ever was.
Please feel free to contact me if you need more information.
Best regards,
Jim Callaghan
Marketing Program Manager, Computer Associates.
jim.ca...@ca.com
Leandro Pinto Fava
I agree that ingres is a great dbms product (cost x benefit, stability, good performance, easy to maintain databases, etc, etc).
And as Karl said "Ingres has seen significant development in the last few years..." and " ...CA is committed to embedding Ingres
into other CA products that use a database repository.", these is a good argument to continue with ingres.
Here at Unisc, we worked with Ingres and Openroad since 1996, and one thing our boss has argumented is too difficult find someone who worked with ingres/openroad to contract.
We are an University, and our academical area (Computer Science) does few effort to teach ingres as DBMS in your classes. This because market has used much more other produtcs such as (Oracle and SQL Server) than ingres.
Here in Brazil, there are few sites where ingres is used.
Other thing is worrying us, the number of sites are migrating from ingres to other dbms servers.
Best regards,
Leandro Fava
DBA
Universidade de Santa Cruz do Sul-UNISC
www.unisc.br
Fone: +55 51 3717 7424
-----Original Message-----
From: Karl & Betty Schendel [mailto:sche...@kbcomputer.com]
Sent: quarta-feira, 18 de dezembro de 2002 14:59
To: info-...@ams.org
Subject: Re: futur of Ingres
At 8:35 AM +0000 12/18/02, gcharrier wrote:
>Hi,
>
>one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess the
>latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
>with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
>Server, Oracle).
>This is not because of performance or stabililty problems (Ingres is OK
>with this), but i think he would be sure CA will continue to support
>the product (are enought licences sold every years ? what about new
>versions ?)
CA will continue to support Ingres for quite a long time at the very
Kent Smith
Schendel) wrote:
>At 8:35 AM +0000 12/18/02, gcharrier wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess the
>>latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
>>with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
>>Server, Oracle).
>>This is not because of performance or stabililty problems (Ingres is OK
>>with this), but i think he would be sure CA will continue to support
>>the product (are enought licences sold every years ? what about new
>>versions ?)
>
>CA will continue to support Ingres for quite a long time at the very
>least. This has little to do with how many licenses they sell, and
>everything to do with the fact that CA is committed to embedding Ingres
>into other CA products that use a database repository. Ingres has
>seen significant development in the last few years, and this will
>continue. There is at least a year's worth of committed development
>enhancements that I have heard about, with plenty of ideas floating
>around for the more distant future.
I can't believe that I'm being drawn into this argument again. *sigh*
Databases are in a very different place technically than they were 10
years ago. Then it mattered - really mattered - which one you chose,
because their feature sets were quite different. Most people chose
wrong, and that is why there are so many Oracle shops out there :)
Now, all the (serious) databases out there will do most of what you
need. If you are on the fringe (and some of my customers are, with
ridiculously high throughput requirements or gargantuan databases),
then it may still matter, but often only because the application was
(or was not) designed in a particular way. Ingres is capable of
handling most anything you throw at it if you design for it properly.
As for support, throw what stones you will at CA, but as long as there
is an installed base, Ingres will be supported. CA supports products
that are long dead. This makes them money, and saves clients the
expense of rewriting their software in something else. It may not be
the business model that you find everywhere in the industry, but it
seems to be working.
Decisions to switch platforms are almost always made by people with
little exposure to the actual technologies "on the ground", and that
makes it hard to change the mind of the corporate juggernaut once it
starts to read the Oracle marketing literature. But make sure that a
complete life-cycle cost-benefit analysis is done before jumping from
one perfectly good ship to another.
There are actually companies out there that switch off of Oracle too,
you know.
--Kent
=================================
Kent Smith
IPSO Incorporated
Business * Technology * Solutions
http://www.ipsoinc.com
Mark Luijendijk
Karl & Betty Schendel
>
>We are an University, and our academical area (Computer Science) does few effort to teach ingres as DBMS in your classes. This because market has used much more other produtcs such as (Oracle and SQL Server) than ingres.
Just one comment here. Teaching to a specific RDBMS is just as insane as
teaching to a specific release of Windows, or a specific word processor,
or similar. Arguments that "we should teach X because that is what the
market uses" should be translated as "I am a lazy teacher and I don't want
to teach concepts, so I will regurgitate some of the manual for X."
And what you get are students who can make X work, but they don't know why.
Yeah, I guess I feel pretty strongly about this.
--
Karl R. Schendel, Jr. sche...@kbcomputer.com
K/B Computer Associates www.kbcomputer.com
Ingres, Unix, VMS Consulting and Training
Roy Hann
news:2294617.1...@dbforums.com...
> one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess the
> latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
> with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
> Server, Oracle).
Of course they can continue to use Ingres! Why on earth not? CA continue
to
bring out significant new releases at regular intervals, with regular
updates in between. Ingres II 2.6 just came out. Ingres II 2.7 is being
openly discussed at user group meetings and conferences, and planning is
well under way for Ingres II 3.0. Some of the enhancements that are coming
soon are really very exciting indeed.
CA's committment to Ingres is beyond question IMO. It already underpins a
number of their other products and there are major enhancements being added
to make it capable of underpinning them all. What exactly would CA have to
do to convince your customer that they can continue to use Ingres that they
are not already doing? (And you can tell me in precise detail if you want,
because one of the things CA do to ensure the future of Ingres is regular
consultation with customers through the Ingres Product Advisory Council, of
which we are members. Tell me what you want and I will make sure CA hear
about it.)
And one last thing: as long as Ingres does what you need doing, what is the
point of using up very scarce funding to do no more than replace what you
already have, with a more expensive product, and with the certaintly of
destabilizing your systems for months if not years?
INGRES IS NOT GOING AWAY.
Roy Hann
Rational Commerce Ltd.
"Ingres development, tuning, and training experts"
Leandro Pinto Fava
I agree with you again. I'm sorry, I used wrong word: "... few effort to teach ingres...", change it for "...few effort to use ingres...".
I didn't want to say our teachers are teaching X or Y RDBMS.
We have laboratories with Ingres, Oracle, SQL Server, PostgreSQL and the students are free to use any of them in their tasks.
Regards,
Leandro Fava
DBA
Universidade de Santa Cruz do Sul-UNISC
www.unisc.br
Fone: +55 51 3717 7424
At 4:36 PM -0200 12/18/02, Leandro Pinto Fava wrote:
Gareth Williams
sit
on top of SQLServer? (Not that I have any preference of DBMS)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy Hann [SMTP:rh...@globalnet.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:05 AM
> To: info-...@ams.org
> Subject: Re: futur of Ingres
>
> "gcharrier" <mem...@dbforums.com> wrote in message
> news:2294617.1...@dbforums.com...
>
> > one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess th=
e
> > latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
> > with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
> > Server, Oracle).
>
> Of course they can continue to use Ingres! Why on earth not? CA conti=
nue
> to
> bring out significant new releases at regular intervals, with regular
> updates in between. Ingres II 2.6 just came out. Ingres II 2.7 is bei=
ng
> openly discussed at user group meetings and conferences, and planning i=
s
> well under way for Ingres II 3.0. Some of the enhancements that are
> coming
> soon are really very exciting indeed.
>
> CA's committment to Ingres is beyond question IMO. It already underpin=
s a
> number of their other products and there are major enhancements being
> added
> to make it capable of underpinning them all. What exactly would CA hav=
e
> to
> do to convince your customer that they can continue to use Ingres that
> they
> are not already doing? (And you can tell me in precise detail if you
> want,
> because one of the things CA do to ensure the future of Ingres is regul=
ar
> consultation with customers through the Ingres Product Advisory Council=
,
> of
> which we are members. Tell me what you want and I will make sure CA he=
ar
> about it.)
>
> And one last thing: as long as Ingres does what you need doing, what is
> the
> point of using up very scarce funding to do no more than replace what y=
ou
> already have, with a more expensive product, and with the certaintly of
> destabilizing your systems for months if not years?
>
> INGRES IS NOT GOING AWAY.
>
> Roy Hann
> Rational Commerce Ltd.
> "Ingres development, tuning, and training experts"
>
>
>
English:- This message is confidential. If you are not the intended
recipient of the message then please notify the sender immediately. Any o=
f
the statements or comments made above should be regarded as personal and =
not
necessarily those of Bro Morgannwg NHS Trust, any constituent part or
connected body. Cymraeg:- Mae'r neges hon yn gyfrinachol. Os nad chi yw'r
derbynnydd y bwriedid y neges ar ei gyfer, byddwch mor garedig â rhoi g=
wybod
i'r anfonydd yn ddi-oed. Dylid ystyried unrhyw ddatganiadau neu sylwadau =
a
wneir uchod yn rhai personol, ac nid o angenrhaid yn rhai o eiddo
Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Bro Morgannwg, nac unrhyw ran gyfansoddol ohoni na
chorff cysylltiedig.
Richard David
CA are committed to supporting and improving Ingres for a long time as they intend to underpin all their software with it. This will be a very long time IMO. But what about the people who don't like Ingres because of CA? There's a lot of prejudice out there and CA most definitely need to hire better image consultants. Crack the "we hate CA" brigade and Ingres will do a lot better.
Very few corporations write bespoke software these days, preferring to 'tailor' off-the-shelf packages instead. CA need to figure out how to get the likes of SAP, Siebel, PeopleSoft and others like them to use Ingres as their database of choice. Perhaps by giving the software away and charging a very modest fee for support?
When it comes to bespoke software loads of sites choose Apache and Tomcat (or such like) so Ingres needs to be much more Java 'enabled'. Mention OpenROAD and Ingres/ICE and people switch off, but mention Java, XML, JDBC, Pepsi Max and bananas and they're all ears! ;-)
Captains of industry and commerce like seeing marketing bumf, especially 'who uses it?', 'who's buying it?' and BENCHMARKS. There's mileage in negative press too, CA know how many Ingres to a-n-other DBMS migrations have been undertaken/attempted and they know how many crashed and burned. Put a $igure on that and people will think twice. Senior managers need to be assured that nobody every got fired for buying Ingres!
<OFF TOPIC>
The Ingres FAQ is seriously in need of an update. It looks like people stopped using Ingres 4 years ago.
<\OFF TOPIC>
Cheers,
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Karl & Betty Schendel
>Why is it then that when you install Unicenter you can choose to have it sit
>on top of SQLServer? (Not that I have any preference of DBMS)
Because that's how it used to work for quite a long time, until the
Unicenter people were introduced to Ingres.
Inertia.
Karl & Betty Schendel
>
><OFF TOPIC>
>The Ingres FAQ is seriously in need of an update. It looks like people stopped using Ingres 4 years ago.
><\OFF TOPIC>
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. My "95% done" FAQ update is so old that it's
probably more like 50% done now. My only consolation is that Roy hasn't
done any better. :-)
I keep meaning to work on it in my copious spare time, but it hasn't
happened yet. Maybe I can find some time during the holidays...
Will Avery
> We have just started publishing a number of white papers, one of which
> includes a product roadmap for Ingres. You can find these papers on
> http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/CollateralList.asp?CCT=19505&ID=1013
> <http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/CollateralList.asp?CCT=19505&ID=1013>
>
<snip>
> <http://dbforums.com>
>
These are interesting documents, but
http://www3.ca.com/Files/WhitePapers/Advantage_Ingres_white_paper.pdf
makes some curious assertions.
"Advantage Ingres has been addressing application
development productivity since the early days of
Version 6 with the introduction of the Application
by Forms (ABF)..."
ABF was in Version 5.
"In the approximately ten years since
the launch of Version 6, both hardware and operating
systems have evolved considerably. 64-bit architecture,
native threads and other similar features are taken
for granted these days, but when Version 6 was first
designed, it was built around DEC PDP11 architecture
with a view to supporting 32 concurrent users."
Why describe 13 years as "approximately ten years"? It's very
approximate indeed.
I suspect that DEC PDP11 architecture had already been extended into VAX
before Ingres 6 was designed. Either that or 6 was a _long_ time on the
drawing board. Version 6 was certainly first implemented under VAX/VMS.
Will
Kent Smith
wrote:
>CA are committed to supporting and improving Ingres for a long time as they
>intend to underpin all their software with it. This will be a very long time
>IMO. But what about the people who don't like Ingres because of CA? There's
>a lot of prejudice out there and CA most definitely need to hire better
>image consultants. Crack the "we hate CA" brigade and Ingres will do a lot
>better.
>
Fortunately, Oracle, IBM, and Microsoft are even more despised than CA
is nowadays.
http://www.stokely.com/lighter.side/devil.n.bill.html
And I particularly love this:
http://www.texemarrs.com/121997/LOGO.HTM
And of course:
MICROSOFT-HELL MERGER ANNOUNCED
William H. Gates III, Chairman of Microsoft Corporation,and Lucifer
Satan, chairman of Hell Ltd., have announced the merger of the two
companies. Satan will be given the title of "Vice President for
Corruption" at Microsoft.
Wall Street looks favorably upon this merger as Microsoft's control of
the material world will now be supplemented by Hell's control over the
spiritual.
"When we agree on methods and motivation, there is no need for us to
compete further", said Gates.
"As an original investor in Microsoft, I have been delighted with its
progress and welcome the opportunity to work with its clients at a
more intimate level", said Satan.
Philippe Kahn, President of Borland International, and Yahweh Elohim,
chairman of Heaven Associates, were not available for comment.
Speculation is rife that a merger between Word Perfect and the Angel
Moroni is to be formalized this week.
PC Week, 3/12/94
Michael Leo
>Croker, Grant wrote:
>
>>We have just started publishing a number of white papers, one of which
>>includes a product roadmap for Ingres. You can find these papers on
>>http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/CollateralList.asp?CCT=19505&ID=1013
><snip>
>
>><http://dbforums.com>
>These are interesting documents, but
>http://www3.ca.com/Files/WhitePapers/Advantage_Ingres_white_paper.pdf
>makes some curious assertions.
>
>"Advantage Ingres has been addressing application
>development productivity since the early days of
>Version 6 with the introduction of the Application
>by Forms (ABF)..."
>
>ABF was in Version 5.
ABF was actually in Version 3.
>"In the approximately ten years since
>the launch of Version 6, both hardware and operating
>systems have evolved considerably. 64-bit architecture,
>native threads and other similar features are taken
>for granted these days, but when Version 6 was first
>designed, it was built around DEC PDP11 architecture
>with a view to supporting 32 concurrent users."
>
>Why describe 13 years as "approximately ten years"? It's very approximate
>indeed.
>
>I suspect that DEC PDP11 architecture had already been extended into VAX
>before Ingres 6 was designed. Either that or 6 was a _long_ time on the
>drawing board. Version 6 was certainly first implemented under VAX/VMS.
>
>Will
Version 6 was designed on the VAX, according to my recollections and sources.
I was told (back in 1990) that it was shipped with default configuration
for 32 users on a 16MB MicroVAX II.
I'm not even 100% sure that Version 3 or above EVER supported the PDP11.
There seems to be a revisionist lurking somewhere at CA ...
Cheers,
Michael Leo ml...@cariboulake.com Java, J2EE, .NET
Caribou Lake Software http://www.cariboulake.com Oracle, Ingres,
DB2, Websphere
"We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the
time: premature optimization is the root of all evil."
- Donald Knuth
Wojtek Rappak
always be with us'.
So much so that when we set about changing our Rational Commerce web
site a month or two ago we decided to include a separate section on,
guess what?: The Future of Ingres.
It's in the 'Ingres Community' section
(http://www.rationalcommerce.com/ingresFuture.shtml). The aim is to
stimulate intelligent but controversial debate. Please have a look
and contribute.
(That goes for you too, Roy ;-} )
Wojtek Rappak
Rational Commerce Ltd
www.RationalCommerce.com
Gareth....@bromor-tr.wales.nhs.uk (Gareth Williams) wrote in message news:<AF09AA124ED4D5118B5600B0D0EA173B0230BDFD@POW_EXCH>...
> Why is it then that when you install Unicenter you can choose to have it sit
> on top of SQLServer? (Not that I have any preference of DBMS)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roy Hann [SMTP:rh...@globalnet.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:05 AM
> > To: info-...@ams.org
> > Subject: Re: futur of Ingres
> >
> > "gcharrier" <mem...@dbforums.com> wrote in message
> > news:2294617.1...@dbforums.com...
> >
> > > one of our customers has a lot of Ingres database servers (i guess the
> > > latests Ingres versions). He would like to know if he can continue
> > > with Ingres or if he has to change to another database server (SQL
> > > Server, Oracle).
> >
> > Of course they can continue to use Ingres! Why on earth not? CA continue
> > to
> > bring out significant new releases at regular intervals, with regular
> > updates in between. Ingres II 2.6 just came out. Ingres II 2.7 is being
> > openly discussed at user group meetings and conferences, and planning is
> > well under way for Ingres II 3.0. Some of the enhancements that are
> > coming
> > soon are really very exciting indeed.
> >
> > CA's committment to Ingres is beyond question IMO. It already underpins a
> > number of their other products and there are major enhancements being
> > added
> > to make it capable of underpinning them all. What exactly would CA have
> > to
> > do to convince your customer that they can continue to use Ingres that
> > they
> > are not already doing? (And you can tell me in precise detail if you
> > want,
> > because one of the things CA do to ensure the future of Ingres is regular
> > consultation with customers through the Ingres Product Advisory Council,
> > of
> > which we are members. Tell me what you want and I will make sure CA hear
> > about it.)
> >
> > And one last thing: as long as Ingres does what you need doing, what is
> > the
> > point of using up very scarce funding to do no more than replace what you
> > already have, with a more expensive product, and with the certaintly of
> > destabilizing your systems for months if not years?
> >
> > INGRES IS NOT GOING AWAY.
> >
> > Roy Hann
> > Rational Commerce Ltd.
> > "Ingres development, tuning, and training experts"
> >
> >
> >
> English:- This message is confidential. If you are not the intended
> recipient of the message then please notify the sender immediately. Any of
> the statements or comments made above should be regarded as personal and not
> necessarily those of Bro Morgannwg NHS Trust, any constituent part or
> connected body. Cymraeg:- Mae'r neges hon yn gyfrinachol. Os nad chi yw'r
> derbynnydd y bwriedid y neges ar ei gyfer, byddwch mor garedig â rhoi gwybod
> i'r anfonydd yn ddi-oed. Dylid ystyried unrhyw ddatganiadau neu sylwadau a
Roy Hann
news:4.3.2.7.2.200212...@127.0.0.1...
> >"Advantage Ingres has been addressing application
> >development productivity since the early days of
> >Version 6 with the introduction of the Application
> >by Forms (ABF)..."
> >
> >ABF was in Version 5.
>
> ABF was actually in Version 3.
Gosh, it's been a *very* long time, but I think there was something called
ABF in Version 2.1, in 1983. It had activation blocks, and integration with
vifred, and that was about all. For any actual coding you had to use EQUEL.
(Not that that was so bad--in fact we never did use ABF in anger; EQUEL and
FRS in C was just fine thanks.)
> >I suspect that DEC PDP11 architecture had already been extended into VAX
> >before Ingres 6 was designed. Either that or 6 was a _long_ time on the
> >drawing board. Version 6 was certainly first implemented under VAX/VMS.
I am certain that commercial Ingres has never run on the PDP-11. We had RTI
Ingres licence #153 and we were running VAXen, and that was Ingres 2.1. The
PDP-11 was still alive and well in 1983 (I seem to recall the J11
PDP-on-a-chip came out around about then) but Ingres never ran on it.
Roy (The Struldbrug) Hann
Michael Leo
>"Michael Leo" <ml...@cariboulake.com> wrote in message
>news:4.3.2.7.2.200212...@127.0.0.1...
> > >development productivity since the early days of
> > >Version 6 with the introduction of the Application
> > >by Forms (ABF)..."
> > >
> > >ABF was in Version 5.
> >
> > ABF was actually in Version 3.
>
>ABF in Version 2.1, in 1983. It had activation blocks, and integration with
>vifred, and that was about all. For any actual coding you had to use EQUEL.
>(Not that that was so bad--in fact we never did use ABF in anger; EQUEL and
>FRS in C was just fine thanks.)
Between 1985-1992 I helped develop 500,000 lines of
EQUEL Pascal using FRS. It was sweet!
> > >I suspect that DEC PDP11 architecture had already been extended into VAX
> > >before Ingres 6 was designed. Either that or 6 was a _long_ time on the
> > >drawing board. Version 6 was certainly first implemented under VAX/VMS.
>
>I am certain that commercial Ingres has never run on the PDP-11. We had RTI
>Ingres licence #153 and we were running VAXen, and that was Ingres 2.1. The
>PDP-11 was still alive and well in 1983 (I seem to recall the J11
>PDP-on-a-chip came out around about then) but Ingres never ran on it.
I was pretty sure about this.
>Roy (The Struldbrug) Hann
>Rational Commerce Ltd.
>"Ingres development, tuning, and training experts"
Cheers,
Anuj (BHEL Hardwar India)
What does the following error mean ?
----------------------
HWR08 ::[32803 , 000023cf]: Sat Dec 28 14:56:41 2002
E_DM0166_AGG_ADE_FAILED Execution of ADE control block in DMF Aggregate
Processor failed.
----------------------
What should we do to rectify the problem ?
Thanks.
Anuj.
--
=======================================================================
Anuj Kumar Gupta, | Reply Mode may not work.
Computer Centre, | Please use the following internet
Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd., | e-mail address:
Hardwar (Uttranchal), INDIA | ing...@bhelhwr.co.in
VISIT US AT http://www.bhel.com
=======================================================================
Greg Pavlov
wrote:
>
>It has never been CA policy to disclose revenue figures for an
>individual product, but I can say that the user base is growing.
This is one of those totally useless statements that say
absolutely nothing. It's in the same vein as CA's financial
reports. I can see this now: I put in a proposal for a project
with the following line: "We plan to use the Ingres DBMS on
this project. We do not have the foggiest idea of who else,
if anyone, is planning to use this package, and it does seem
to be off the radar in the industry press. But the vendor, CA,
absolutely assures us that the user base is growing, tho it
states that it cannot provide any figures."
--------------------------------------
Remove "XX" from address
Dennis Roesler
For those that are proponents of staying with Ingres it would be nice to
have some help from CA about the viability of the future of Ingres
products. Revenue figures aren't necessarily what is needed, unless one
is using that alone to determine future viability.
It would be nice to have some evidence to show that the user base is
growing, that all of CA products work as seemless with Ingres as any
other dB, and that any CA product that needs an underlying dB Ingres is
the dB used (how does that saying go about eating your own dog food?).
That would make our job much easier when in front of managemnent and IT
making the case to stay with Ingres.
Cheers
Dennis
michael newport
Sanjay
> what % of the market does Ingres hold vs Oracle / SQL Server etc...
that does be a difficult question for answer; so vendor information may
posibly being partisan, collected statistics may not being accurate for
various reasons, and question may being broken down from application
type/size/platform.
In 1998, Dataquest reported:
IBM 32.3%
Oracle 29.3%
Microsoft 10.2%
Informix 4.8%
Sybase 3.5%
Others 20%
So, you be able to see this figure to Ingres must being tiny. I'd
describe it so "an invisible product". Its now 2003, and nothed
seems to have changed regarded Ingres.
So, for try for answer the of you question, I'd gues this Ingres
might have 0.312% of total database market. It really depends for
why you wanted figures!
Any coment's from others?
calja03
Originally posted by Michael Newport
>
This is always a tricky one to answer depending on the metric you want
to use. License revenue? Number of licenses? Number of customers?
As I mentioned in a previous posting, CA's revenue recognition method is
totally different to that of our competitors, so we can't compare like
with like. The latter two metrics can also be misleading as I know of an
example where a client took 130,000 licenses in one contract.
Despite the fact that the industry has tried to commoditise databases,
there's no easy way to guage how successful one product is over another.
Cars and washing machines are straight forward, but databases aren't!
All I can do is re-iterate that the Ingres user base is growing slowly
in its own right and considerably faster if you include other CA
products where it is embedded.
Jim Callaghan
Marketing Program Manager, Computer Associates
michael newport
perhaps a more telling statistic from my point of view is a job search
on jobserve :-
Oracle 554
SQL Server 263
Ingres 11
Gibson Jonathan
What were the 11 Ingres jobs??? They'll be a mad rush now by Ingres DBA/developers to see if they're being paid enough. So ok, that might not break the web server it sits on but hey, it's a start...
-----Original Message-----
From: michael...@yahoo.com [mailto:michael...@yahoo.com]
Sent: 08 January 2003 13:46
To: info-...@ams.org
Subject: Re: futur of Ingres
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