Derrida's shoes and voice

[Alan Sondheim]

Derrida's shoes and voice

Derrida's shoes
http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko/shoes.jpg
Derrida's voice
http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko/voice.jpg

_

[MWP]

2 anecdotes

I got to see Derrida lecture in a large hall at UC Berkeley. By then, he was
a celebrity and was surrounded by hoards of followers. He spoke entirely in
French for a solid hour, and I'll bet most of the crowd of people there
didn't understand a word of it.

I also had a friend who's brother got his PhD under Derrida at Yale. He was
the only American student at the time (and since?) to be so blessed. Smart
guy, to be sure.

m

[Alan Sondheim]

Talan and I gave him our cds and then there was this panel and I yelled at
him, but that takes a retelling and Brian Rotman's not around Talan? -
alan

recent http://www.asondheim.org/
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[MWP]

These French philosophers, when they visit America to teach, are always so
astonishingly generous of their time. I recall when Foucault came to
Berkeley and I hung out at his seminar and met him a few times, even had
dinner with him. Couldn't be a nicer guy. Foucault had very positive
feelings about America, but then that was back when one could drive 20 miles
across the bridge to SF and have bondage and fisting parties all night. (Not
me, though!) By contrast, I think most foreign intellectuals like Foucault
and Derrida would be appalled by how narrow-minded America has become (I
haven't read D's take on 9-11), assuming they would even be allowed into the
country under today's restrictive laws.

Man, this country really sucks. And to think that back in 2000 I actually
believed that the world was finally turning a corner towards a new
enlightenment! It was a time when the baby-boom anti-Vietnam generation
finally had the chance to take hold of the reins of power, and wow, did the
future look deceptively bright. Nowadays, things are so bad that I even hear
artists claiming that modernism was part of a 20th century aberration and in
the 21st we need to go back to pre-modern values of realism and order. I am
appalled by the regression on all fronts that is settling in. It's like a
whole century is being swept under the rug so that ancient prejudices can
re-emerge and infect the world once again with their plagues.

m

on 10/12/04 11:53 AM, Talan Memmott at ta...@MEMMOTT.ORG wrote:

> The lighting of the cigarello was after we made our way toward JD. You
> did most of the pushing though... I just handed him my cd... maybe I
> handed it to you and you handed both to him... After, outside, in
> front of the library, when I was escaping the "deconstructionist
> bodyguards followers camp whores and venomous merchants", it seems
> Derrida was trying to do the same. His reprieve was shortlived... I
> then went to lunch with someone I'd never met before, didn't recognize
> my name until I mentioned Lexia to Perplexia, which they had just
> read...
> That whole conference is a blur... I do remember having to give my
> paper at 8:30 in the morning in some boombox of an atrium... I also
> remember Stelarc saying to me that he got my paper... and seem to
> remember Peggy Kamuf shaking her head while I gave my paper... I also
> remember you asking me after I gave my paper if I had read Levinas,
> and taking a picture of me in front of my doodle covered whiteboard. I
> do remember you yelling at Derrida... after the panel where the topic
> seemed to be "book worry"... perhaps, that wasn't the official subject
> but that was the digression.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:39:49 -0400
> Alan Sondheim <sond...@PANIX.COM> wrote:
>> No, saying he's not around, meanwhile was it earlier I pushed my way
>> (not
>> unusual for me) through a group of deconstructionist bodyguards
>> followers
>> camp whores and venomous merchants to give JD a copy of my cd and I
>> think
>> Talan's. I didn't get to light his cigarette but inhaled the ashes! -
>> Alan
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Talan Memmott wrote:
>>
>>> He asked me for a light, and I lit his cigarello... Talked for a few
>>> minutes, he asked my what I did... or what I was, I think he
>>> asked...
>>> Then a bunch of people came up, interrupted me and usehered him
>>> away...
>>>
>>> Alan, are you asking me if Rotman is around...?

[Alan Sondheim]

[mIEKAL aND]

Here in rural Wisconsin modernism, post-moderism, & post-post never
happened the first time. Its been 17th century white boy realism all
along. On the other hand almost everyone out here has easy access to
organic food, fresh air, land & "wilderness".

mIEKAL

[Alan Sondheim]

It doesn't matter what artists are claiming; the real work of decon and
postmodernism has been in areas such as geomatics, geography, law, etc.
What takes and doesn't take in the artworld is to some extent a product of
schools which have never emphasized theory except in pastiche form. - Alan

[Lanny Quarles]

this whole thing is starting to sound like that movie "Candy"..
with Richard Burton as Derrida.. maybe Alan could be that cute blonde..
:) maybe a poor joke.. alan's much cuter than some old blonde..

lq

[Alan Sondheim]

Well, not to be a problem here but yes, they're generous - they're out of
their own political milieu, where they're not that well appreciated. You
have to see this in relation to American intellectual style, university
competition here, etc. And I'm sure they would still be welcome here -
although for example the attack on de Man went way back at least through
the Clinton admin. You might also ask why these people are more valued
here than in France?

- Alan

[Talan Memmott]

I think I might have your commentary documented on minidisc... along
with all of Derrida's responses to the papers of that evening... I
think I recorded maybe five minutes of the first paper and then
considered that a waste of discs... but, the Derrida responses are
good to have, if even only for chopping up and corrupting... I wasn't
sure who you were yelling, now that I remember forgetting... I do
remember you commenting, I think just to me though it may have been
directed toward the panel... that it seemed the 'Derrideans' were
trying to out Derrida Derrida...

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:57:48 -0400
Alan Sondheim <sond...@PANIX.COM> wrote:
>I was yelling at the absurd pronouncements of deconstructists in
>relation
>to computers and online - one paper totally missing the configuration
>of
>email headers for example, and then rambling on about his/her take.
>Except
>for Peggy Kamuf who couldn't get enough of him, stuttering through
>her
>questions to the point of incomprehension, probably after a night of
>fucking, he seemed to stay comfortably within the fold. Or so I
>thought at
>the time. Decon for me lost a sense of radicality at that point and
>became just another academic battlefield. I wonder if all those
>academics
>who read Glas really played with their ass? Or read Glas at all?
>
>The conference maddened me because of the subtext of mourning the
>book,
>mourning literary studies, mourning humanities. You get the same
>thing now
>on lists like Poetics where poets burble on about whether there's a
>lit
>avant-garde or not, at the same time sneering at work like ours which
>clearly runs amuck in their well-turned gardens.
>
>Weeds, I say, weeds; I'd rather be them!
>
>- Alan

>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:39:49 -0400
>> Alan Sondheim <sond...@PANIX.COM> wrote:
>>> No, saying he's not around, meanwhile was it earlier I pushed my way
>>> (not
>>> unusual for me) through a group of deconstructionist bodyguards
>>> followers
>>> camp whores and venomous merchants to give JD a copy of my cd and I
>>> think
>>> Talan's. I didn't get to light his cigarette but inhaled the ashes!

>>>-
>>> Alan
>>>

[Alan Sondheim]

then there were the presentations which the decons DIDN'T go to - remember
down in the ceramics room with dust all over the place early saturday
morning - at least they moved us.

the great man wasn't there.

maybe Peggy Kamuf did him in. I wouldn't want to, but I wouldn't want to
go there either - alan

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Talan Memmott wrote:

> Oh yes... the telephone participant... ridiculous... Trying to hold a
> microphone upto the speaker phone... That panel was in the same
> super-boomy atrium where I gave my paper... Iggggg. just silly. I
> also remember catching Derrida on more than a few occasions dozing off
> during papers.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:17:29 -0400
> Alan Sondheim <sond...@PANIX.COM> wrote:
>> Yes, I'm adorable!
>>
>> And D's shoes _were_ loafers...
>> There was also a call to a theorist from PARIS who couldn't make it,
>> I
>> think it was this conf., maybe not, Talan? Anyway, the connection was
>> so
>> bad at Albany we just basically heard a roar... Alan

[Alan Sondheim]

Mainly I remember you, me, Rotman, although it was also there I did the
Stelarc interview that you published in Beehive. Which was a relief, since
S. controls the critique pretty much, and I had a chance to go into 19th
century roots with him.

But Derrida was imprisoned by the Derrideans - there's no other way of
putting it - resonating inside himself because it was all reflected that
way, wolf notes in an overly-echoic chamber.

It was there that I realized I didn't need to read all the theory there
is, and that I better write some more.

- Alan

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Talan Memmott wrote:

> They had the artists separated from the 'theorist' by a whole river,
> in a different town none-the-less... I wasn't even invited as an
> artist, I was there as a 'theorist', I didn't get to show any work...
> which was wierd...
> then, what, there was only one 'promoted' artist talk w/ Stelarc, Toni
> Dove and Elizabeth Diller...
> For some reason I don't even remember the art there... And, up until
> this moment I had blocked out that whole day. maybe I had a
> hangover... I did do some drinking with Brian Rotman and Carey Wolfe,
> I think, the night before.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:51:51 -0400

[Talan Memmott]

Derrida's death is making me think that I don't "need to read all the
theory there is, and that I better write some more." There is an
interesting quote from the Derrida documentary that I think may have
appeared in some of the obituaries. In his library, when asked "have
you read all these books?" D responds, "No, just three or four, but I
read them very well."
Yes, better write some more but some have told me I don't write
theory, really... that sometimes it is aphoristic philosophy or
something, fiction... but, been thinking a lot about getting back to
working on the book, not "THE BOOK", but a book, probably a small
book... a paper chimera.
I think your "Voice of Derrida" image is interesting... Like, Derrida
as "always already" a ghost ... even at that conference. Surrounded by
mourners.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:05:08 -0400

[Alan Sondheim]

he was already mourned at the conference, I agree, which was also a
mourning for jobs, academia gone amuck as computer types like ourselves
ranaround. as you know, I also 'work' in aphoristic philosophy, sometimes
drawn out like the sophia.txt or mutilated by others, such as the old
parables of nikuko book - but I worry that I'm kidding myself - then I
think of Nietzsche or Karl Kraus or even Kierkegaard - Alan

[Talan Memmott]

Nietzsche... yes... and the idea of aphorism as songs... which reminds
me... in one of the bands I played in years ago -- Sloppy Kafka -- we
had a song, that did get carried over into other bands I was in --
Peabody, Jack the Ant -- titled 'Letters to Derrida', which had little
to do with Derrida other than the phonemic qualities of the word, the
name... I think I have a Peabody recording of it somewhere... lyrics
from memory, at least the first verse and chorus were something like:

you say you like this senseless pop we play
you might not know the differAnce anyway
this insincerity
is nothing new to me
then you tell me what you want to hear

we're sending letters to derrida
misunderstood, unreadable

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:51:17 -0400

[Alan Sondheim]

for years I resisted Derrida; I felt and still feel to some extent that
the humanities split as a result of the 'triumph' of science - part of it
going to what we do, cyberesis/mathesis of literature/philosophy/culture
in general, and part going to defensive fortification vis-a-vis stylistics
or technical vocabulary - the rhetorical response. surely Lacan,
Heidegger, etc. always translate badly -

and my own relation was nonexistent at least until the mid-70s; I was
preoccupied with Wittgenstein, taking his Tractatus as punctum. even now I
haven't gotten through Grammatology, and tend to read _in_ Derrida rather
than full through a work - unlike Barthes or Sartre for example, but like
Lacan (who is helped along with a drink or two, so since I hardly ever
touch alcohol) or Baudrillard -

I think it was my Structure of Reality book that first showed the evidence
- along with and interpenetrated with a cybernetic theory using what
little I knew of threshold logic -

so we've come in and out of this in certain ways, and this discussion has
the habitas of bringing a bit of daylight to it -

ala

[Lanny Quarles]

I tend to like Cioran's aphorisme, and they are the punkest of the lot, or pukest,
"N/ex/T Nihilo-Verse" would be a good name for a band doing Cioran-like stuff..
prolly knot. still a flipper and early meat puppets fan though..

[Alan Sondheim]

Yes, I'm adorable!

And D's shoes _were_ loafers...
There was also a call to a theorist from PARIS who couldn't make it, I
think it was this conf., maybe not, Talan? Anyway, the connection was so
bad at Albany we just basically heard a roar... Alan

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Lanny Quarles wrote:

[Talan Memmott]

my introduction to Derrida was in an art theory class... Had to read
portions of _Dissemination_. I went on, on my own to read the rest of
that book and _Of Grammatology_ -- in a hurry, over a summer... It's
interesting now to look back on those days, the '80s, because I do
remember having an intial aversion to Derrida's writing... And,
Baudrillard's. But, for Derrida at least, this aversion made me want
to read more, also made me want to write. An art friend of mine, who
is now a Math PhD, and I would drive to Berkeley and raid Cody's of
all things deconstructive... I was really turned on to wanting to
write when I started reading D&G, A Thousand Plateaus... and by way of
this -- Bataille, Artaud, etc... etc. I remember Kathy Acker telling
me that it is not about 'theory' but vocabulary... For me though, some
of it was about method, about itself, narcissitic; but also method for
my own practice as writer, as painter, as **artist** , not in whole,
but in little bits... like to turning the corpus into cannibal bits...
I think I am more inclined to read Barthes now than I was then... It's
good for teaching at least -- Rhetoric of the Image from
Image-Music-Text, the wrestling chapter from Mythologies, etc.
I think I read a bunch of Robbe-Grillet for the first time over the
summer that I first closely read Derrida, first read Deleuze...

It's strange how much this sack of 'becoming' can hold...

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:26:35 -0400

[Lanny Quarles]

>> Dojo? - Alan

Well, I'm not surpised no one reads what I write or would remember it, but I did send out an email
about Dojo not too long ago,, here it is:

In Tokyo, in the year 1901, the wife of an officer of
the imperial army was about to give birth. Shortly before
her baby was born, the mother had a revelatory dream in
which a rat from the Grand Shrine of Izumo, a magnificent
creature with gold and white fur, bit the big toe of her
left foot. The was the origin and nativity of the Kingdom
of God Civilization of the Holy Twenty First Century,
The True-Light Supra-Religious Organization (Sukyo Mahikari).

Dojos throughout the world know this.
Dojos for the chanting of names.
Dojos for the purification and training of the body.
Dojos for whom no purpose can be found.
Dojos throughout the world know about physical dreaming.

The Place of the Way. The Way of the Place.

Dojo: Magic and Excorcisms in Modern Japan by Winston Davis

[MWP]

on 10/13/04 10:29 PM, Alan Sondheim at sond...@PANIX.COM wrote:

> anyone reading Wark? - still looking.

Hm, if this is what you mean, I read through some of it cursorily --

http://subsol.c3.hu/subsol_2/contributors0/warktext.html

-- and found myself disagreeing more or less violently with nearly every
statement he makes. I gave up reading the full text after a few random dips,
as this kind of writing strikes me as being grounded on naive assumptions
and is too cute by half.

m

[Alan Sondheim]

I didn't know this one. I have a number of books on modern Japanese
religions, though, and some texts of older 19th-century Shinto sects, all
english of course - alan

[Talan Memmott]

I suppose it is where you find the use value... For me, so much of it
was purely generative -- in terms of ideas for work, around work.
Something like D&G A Thousand Plateaus has been generative for me for
nearly 20 years. I keep finding new things within and new ways to look
at/ read that text... I think in the case of this book, it is
intentional.

Barthes is a good companion for travel... I've read/re-read The
Pleasure of Text, Mythologies, A Lover's Discourse en route to here
and there on many occasions. His book on Michelet is incredible,
though rarely referenced. Probably because of its specificity.

I got in trouble with my grads on monday... I was, in the name of
provocation, coming down on VR... Trying to get them to look beyond
surface coolness... Some took it rather personally. But, the snippets
from the Derrida document had some effect... A couple of people asked
me what they should read first...

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:49:41 -0400
Alan Sondheim <sond...@PANIX.COM> wrote:
>Kathy might be a bit write? I find myself still worn by D/G -
>although I
>can't profess to understand the work fully. Barthes for me was always
>clear - the battles he fought were clearly _there_ and the
>negotiation
>with the reader seemed far more open. Lacan talked within closed
>shop. I
>read a fair amount of Lyotard, and still do on occasion.
>
>But then Kathy might be a bit wrong; after all, these are all
>professional
>philosophers, fully engaged. It reminds me of someone reading say
>Kristeva
>for the first time, without working through Revolution in Poetic
>Language,
>or doing the latter without working through the full Fr. version, or
>without reading Mallarme, Lautremont - the list is endless, but
>usually in
>artschool it stops at the first level.
>
>Not that it doesn't elsewhere! I remember asking a theorist about
>Lacan's
>essay on Poe, and what he thought of The Purloined Letter. He never
>read
>it - said it wasn't necessary.
>
>Ah well, there aren't just Snow's two cultures - there are several
>hundreds.
>
>Anyone (other than me) reading Wark's The Hacker Manifesto? Seems odd
>in
>light of Derrida - Alan

[Alan Sondheim]

Complete Hearn? Even Letters to Raven? It must be enormous - do tell.

Take a look at Glas really or the book on painting, brilliant!

Dojo? - Alan

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Lanny Quarles wrote:

> I've been pecking at Barthes' Sade, Fourier, and Loyola, and have most of the
> D&G stuff,
> but never really read much of Derrida except I think maybe some essay or two
> in some journal or other.
> I think I actually read most of Derrida for Dummies one time at a cafe'..
> Mostly reading japanese stuff:
> The death poems, a new book on Shisendo, the hall of poetry immortals,
> kodojin, sad toys, a book called
> Dojo on one of japan's weird new religions, and various other things, some
> ancient indian poetry for example
> and always Cabinet magazine.. at this point in my life, the high theory stuff
> seems too remote from my experience..
> I like things with rocks and trees etc, life experiences, places, lyricism,
> anti-lyricism.. the ornate logical
> constructionism
> of theory is beautiful and palpable but the culture seems a little bit over
> the top pretense wise, i'm not
> anti-intellectual,
> but I get very tired reading this material.. I did enjoy Irigaray's book on
> Heidegger very much, and Barthes
> writing degree zero, and Kristeva's Desire in Language and Black sun were
> very readable and especially Avital Ronell's
> Stupidity struck a chord especially the chapters on De Man.. That Stupidity
> is a great book! Just don't seem to
> be able to read as much as I could once upon a time.. Not sure I was ever
> really a fantastic reader, maybe an earnest
> lazy reader. I like taking in small sections of many texts over a period of
> time.. I guess I need to pick up some
> derrida,
> but the stream of japanese texts is endless, or japanese culture texts.. Just
> picked up the complete Hearn, and a
> biography
> of Turner and one of John Ruskin.. Really looking forward to reading the book
> on Shisendo as Kodojin mentions
> going there.. OH, and reading Basho quite a bit.. Basho with Bebop is extra
> cooool!! Far out.. A horse pissing by
> my pillow, playing with children wearing a fake white rabbit-fur beard..
> Basho is absolutely transcendent.. miracles
> there.. small daily openings to bliss.. In Favor of Deceit is also good.. A
> book on Amazonian Trickster myths..
>
> seems like we're sharing reading habits
> lq

[MWP]

You're right, AS. I am trying to read the essay again with a more level
head, and it does seem like a serious argument, if still hopelessly flawed.
The idea of a hacker class simply doesn't hold up, and strikes me as a
misreading -- or at best a failed attempt at an extension -- of Marx,
primarily because Wark fails to define the specific economic and social
parameters of his new class. It's not simply a diffuse assortment of geeks
and freaks, unlike what Wark claims, since that would include everybody from
some kid in his father's Ohio backroad basement to Bill Gates. And if that's
a class, I'll eat my mouse!

M

on 10/14/04 11:52 AM, Alan Sondheim at sond...@PANIX.COM wrote:

> Didn't find it cute, but definitely immersed in classical marxism. But the
> concept is important - glad he's out there writing. Just wish I could
> agree with him - Alan

[morrigan]

Barthes = difficult, excuse my lumpen nature of tit herd.
Bataille = many hours of happy masturbation.
Derrida, Matt shot some footage when he spoke at Sussex, I watched it today,
he looked pink, there was nothing of his shoes.