[Caml-list] Installing libraries ?
David Teller
I'd like to know what is the standard way of installing libraries
during "make install" ? I have the feeling that godi, findlib and Debian
don't agree on directory structures, so I guess I should ask here. Can
OCamlBuild install libraries, btw ?
Thanks,
David
--
David Teller
Security of Distributed Systems
http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations.
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Nicolas Pouillard
> Hi,
Hi,
[...]
> Can OCamlBuild install libraries, btw ?
Not yet. I think that ocamlbuild will treat installation one day.
--
Nicolas Pouillard aka Ertai
David Allsopp
>Excerpts from david.teller's message of Mon Dec 17 00:40:27 +0100 2007:
>> Hi,
>Hi,
>
> [...]
>
>> Can OCamlBuild install libraries, btw ?
>
>Not yet. I think that ocamlbuild will treat installation one day.
Hang on a sec, if installation of libraries is on the ocamlbuild
roadmap, surely when that time comes your time will be vastly better spent
incorporating ocamlfind into the official OCaml distro instead?
I'm aware that this sort of thing has been asked for before (and
Xavier and others have given very good support-based reasons for why
contributions to the OCaml codebase are kept to a minimum which I fully
respect) but why waste your time reinventing a very well-constructed wheel?
Do you have some amazing new installation features in mind (you may, of
course!)?
Just my 2p...
David
Sylvain Le Gall
> Nicolas Pouillard wrote:
>
>>Excerpts from david.teller's message of Mon Dec 17 00:40:27 +0100 2007:
>>> Hi,
>>Hi,
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Can OCamlBuild install libraries, btw ?
>>
>>Not yet. I think that ocamlbuild will treat installation one day.
>
> Hang on a sec, if installation of libraries is on the ocamlbuild
> roadmap, surely when that time comes your time will be vastly better spent
> incorporating ocamlfind into the official OCaml distro instead?
>
> I'm aware that this sort of thing has been asked for before (and
> Xavier and others have given very good support-based reasons for why
> contributions to the OCaml codebase are kept to a minimum which I fully
> respect) but why waste your time reinventing a very well-constructed wheel?
> Do you have some amazing new installation features in mind (you may, of
> course!)?
>
> Just my 2p...
Just to give my 2 cents also, i fully agree with the view above. If
ocamlbuild could integrate with ocamlfind (for library installation and
for library use) this would be a great step.
The only thing I disagree with the above message, is that ocamlfind
should not be integrated into ocaml (i also think integrating ocamlbuild
is not the best move -- but that a VERY personnal point of view). I
think ocamlbuild should allow to very easily integrate with ocamlfind
(i.e. build something that as a semantic near the one provided by
ocamlfind for -package et al, and only provide a plugin to integrate
with ocamlfind).
OCamlfind is the best tool around for managing libraries in ocaml.
OCaml distributions, like debian or godi, already provide a support for
it. Most of the time missing META file are even provided by these
distributions. Allowing an easy use of it could be a very good point for
all (and the continuation of an implicit policy).
I know there is already a piece of ocamlbuild plugin to integrate
ocamlfind, the BEST way to continue this work is to allow to fully
integrate ocamlfind and ocamlbuild through this work.
Regards,
Sylvain Le Gall
Berke Durak
> OCamlfind is the best tool around for managing libraries in ocaml.
> OCaml distributions, like debian or godi, already provide a support for
> it. Most of the time missing META file are even provided by these
> distributions. Allowing an easy use of it could be a very good point for
> all (and the continuation of an implicit policy).
>
> I know there is already a piece of ocamlbuild plugin to integrate
> ocamlfind, the BEST way to continue this work is to allow to fully
> integrate ocamlfind and ocamlbuild through this work.
Hello,
I agree. I think Ocamlfind and Godi are nice pieces of work, and it
certainly would be better if we could integrate existing systems.
We all love Ocaml, but there seems to be an important problem with it.
Unlike most programming languages of similar magnitude, Ocaml doesn't
have a developer conference where its users could meet face-to-face and
discuss these kind of things... (or did I miss something?) If not, we
should organize one.
Ocaml users span half a dozen continents but we could start with a small
gathering in Paris. I'd suggest late January.
We could then discuss distribution, building, packaging and other
issues; and publish guidelines for a "request for implementation" --
things we would like to see in an integrated compilation and package
manager.
People would then implement different solutions and we could gather two
months later to evaluate the proposals.
Does anyone have a proposal for a gathering place?
--
Berke DURAK
Richard Jones
> Unlike most programming languages of similar magnitude, Ocaml doesn't
> have a developer conference where its users could meet face-to-face and
> discuss these kind of things... (or did I miss something?) If not, we
> should organize one.
>
> Ocaml users span half a dozen continents but we could start with a small
> gathering in Paris. I'd suggest late January.
>
> We could then discuss distribution, building, packaging and other
> issues; and publish guidelines for a "request for implementation" --
> things we would like to see in an integrated compilation and package
> manager.
>
> People would then implement different solutions and we could gather two
> months later to evaluate the proposals.
+1 ...
Rich.
--
Richard Jones
Red Hat
Sylvain Le Gall
+1
I agree with the date.
The gathering place will depend on the number of people coming and the
time (1h - 1 week end?)
I tend to think that it is better to meet longer when trying to
implement something (setup a build environment take at least 1 hour, so
the meeting should last a lot longer than this...).
If the meeting is informal (2-3 hours), we could meet in a bar in Paris
(i have several proposition concerning this). If we want something
longer, we should contact people that have access to some better place
(ENST, ENS, Paris VI... Exalead?)
Maybe doing this during a week end should be a good solution.
I will be there anyway ;-)
Regards,
Sylvain Le Gall
Berke Durak
>
> +1
>
> I agree with the date.
>
> The gathering place will depend on the number of people coming and the
> time (1h - 1 week end?)
>
> I tend to think that it is better to meet longer when trying to
> implement something (setup a build environment take at least 1 hour, so
> the meeting should last a lot longer than this...).
>
> If the meeting is informal (2-3 hours), we could meet in a bar in Paris
> (i have several proposition concerning this). If we want something
> longer, we should contact people that have access to some better place
> (ENST, ENS, Paris VI... Exalead?)
>
> Maybe doing this during a week end should be a good solution.
>
> I will be there anyway ;-)
What about Saturday the 19th or Saturday the 26th in January? Something
like 14:00-18:00 should be fine I guess.
I think we could simply gather in a café -- I was not thinking of a
"coding party" but more of a "what should we do to integrate building
and packaging?"-like discussion.
We just need a quiet place with a bit of space.
--
Berke DURAK
Richard Jones
> What about Saturday the 19th or Saturday the 26th in January? Something
> like 14:00-18:00 should be fine I guess.
>
> I think we could simply gather in a café -- I was not thinking of a
> "coding party" but more of a "what should we do to integrate building
> and packaging?"-like discussion.
>
> We just need a quiet place with a bit of space.
While I'm not guaranteeing that I could come, I checked for Eurostar
prices to Paris from London and they range around the GBP 150 - 180
region, including one night in a hotel (Saturday). Can probably do it
a little cheaper if I look around further.
I think for people coming from outside Paris, realistic options would
be:
(1) Try to do it all in one long day: leave wherever you live early on
a Saturday or Sunday morning, meeting in the afternoon of that same
day, leave on a late train. This is the cheapest option because no
hotel stay needed, but probably gives us not very much time together.
(2) Do a weekend: leave on Saturday and arrive in Paris. Short
meeting and/or social on Saturday evening. Main meeting on Sunday,
leave Sunday late afternoon or evening.
Either way I don't think it will be very productive to have a meeting
in a cafe. We'd need to book some sort of a conference room or ask a
caml-friendly company in Paris if we can take a room for the day.
Rich.
--
Richard Jones
Red Hat
_______________________________________________
Yitzhak Mandelbaum
informal summary/overview of the results?
--------------------------------------------------
Yitzhak Mandelbaum
AT&T Labs - Research
http://www.research.att.com/~yitzhak
Sylvain Le Gall
>
> For those of us who can't make it, any chance you could produce an =20
> informal summary/overview of the results?
>
Ping me, when it will happen. I will make public the result.
Regards,
Sylvain Le Gall
Sylvain Le Gall
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 05:13:02PM +0100, Berke Durak wrote:
>> What about Saturday the 19th or Saturday the 26th in January? Something
>> like 14:00-18:00 should be fine I guess.
>>
>> I think we could simply gather in a café -- I was not thinking of a
>> "coding party" but more of a "what should we do to integrate building
>> and packaging?"-like discussion.
>>
>> We just need a quiet place with a bit of space.
>
> While I'm not guaranteeing that I could come, I checked for Eurostar
> prices to Paris from London and they range around the GBP 150 - 180
> region, including one night in a hotel (Saturday). Can probably do it
> a little cheaper if I look around further.
>
> I think for people coming from outside Paris, realistic options would
> be:
>
> (1) Try to do it all in one long day: leave wherever you live early on
> a Saturday or Sunday morning, meeting in the afternoon of that same
> day, leave on a late train. This is the cheapest option because no
> hotel stay needed, but probably gives us not very much time together.
>
> (2) Do a weekend: leave on Saturday and arrive in Paris. Short
> meeting and/or social on Saturday evening. Main meeting on Sunday,
> leave Sunday late afternoon or evening.
>
I vote for (2), with this modified planning:
* begin at 10AM on saturday
* meeting all day
* diner in paris
* organize some guided tour in Paris on Sunday...
FYI, i think it will be hard to find some meeting room on sunday. So
letting people visit Paris on Sunday is the best option (because it is
possible to visit paris on sunday).
Regards,
Sylvain Le Gall
Sylvain Le Gall
>>> Does anyone have a proposal for a gathering place?
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I agree with the date.
>>
>> The gathering place will depend on the number of people coming and the
>> time (1h - 1 week end?)
>>
>> I tend to think that it is better to meet longer when trying to
>> implement something (setup a build environment take at least 1 hour, so
>> the meeting should last a lot longer than this...).
>>
>> If the meeting is informal (2-3 hours), we could meet in a bar in Paris
>> (i have several proposition concerning this). If we want something
>> longer, we should contact people that have access to some better place
>> (ENST, ENS, Paris VI... Exalead?)
>>
>> Maybe doing this during a week end should be a good solution.
>>
>> I will be there anyway ;-)
>
> What about Saturday the 19th or Saturday the 26th in January? Something
> like 14:00-18:00 should be fine I guess.
>
I vote for January the 26th (need time to organize something).
> I think we could simply gather in a café -- I was not thinking of a
> "coding party" but more of a "what should we do to integrate building
> and packaging?"-like discussion.
>
> We just need a quiet place with a bit of space.
>
Regarding people coming from outside, i think it should last longer... I
don't think people will move only for 4-hours meeting.
Regards,
Sylvain Le Gall
David Teller
> > What about Saturday the 19th or Saturday the 26th in January? Something
> > like 14:00-18:00 should be fine I guess.
> I vote for January the 26th (need time to organize something).
+1 for a Saturday
Personally, I'd prefer February 2th, but I can survive with January
26th.
> > I think we could simply gather in a café -- I was not thinking of a
> > "coding party" but more of a "what should we do to integrate building
> > and packaging?"-like discussion.
> >
> > We just need a quiet place with a bit of space.
> >
>
> Regarding people coming from outside, i think it should last longer... I
> don't think people will move only for 4-hours meeting.
Yeah, but what about a meeting and a good restaurant ? :)
Cheers,
David
--
David Teller
Security of Distributed Systems
http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations.
_______________________________________________
Sylvain Le Gall
> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 17:05 +0000, Sylvain Le Gall wrote:
>> > What about Saturday the 19th or Saturday the 26th in January? Something
>> > like 14:00-18:00 should be fine I guess.
>> I vote for January the 26th (need time to organize something).
>
> +1 for a Saturday
> Personally, I'd prefer February 2th, but I can survive with January
> 26th.
>
>> > I think we could simply gather in a café -- I was not thinking of a
>> > "coding party" but more of a "what should we do to integrate building
>> > and packaging?"-like discussion.
>> >
>> > We just need a quiet place with a bit of space.
>> >
>>
>> Regarding people coming from outside, i think it should last longer... I
>> don't think people will move only for 4-hours meeting.
>
> Yeah, but what about a meeting and a good restaurant ? :)
>
Being french, doing a meeting in Paris and going to Mc Do ? Are you
kidding ;-)
Regards,
Sylvain Le Gall
_______________________________________________
Vincent Hanquez
> On 17-12-2007, David Teller <David....@univ-orleans.fr> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 17:05 +0000, Sylvain Le Gall wrote:
> >> > What about Saturday the 19th or Saturday the 26th in January? Something
> >> > like 14:00-18:00 should be fine I guess.
> >> I vote for January the 26th (need time to organize something).
> >
> > +1 for a Saturday
> > Personally, I'd prefer February 2th, but I can survive with January
> > 26th.
> >
> >> > I think we could simply gather in a café -- I was not thinking of a
> >> > "coding party" but more of a "what should we do to integrate building
> >> > and packaging?"-like discussion.
> >> >
> >> > We just need a quiet place with a bit of space.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Regarding people coming from outside, i think it should last longer... I
> >> don't think people will move only for 4-hours meeting.
> >
> > Yeah, but what about a meeting and a good restaurant ? :)
> >
>
> Being french, doing a meeting in Paris and going to Mc Do ? Are you
> kidding ;-)
Not that i think a meeting is a bad idea, but without INRIA's caml team
commiting to something (so far noone answered the question about ocamlfind)
or at least beeing there, the meeting will get nothing done.
--
Vincent Hanquez
Nicolas Pouillard
> Vincent Hanquez a écrit :
> >
> > Not that i think a meeting is a bad idea, but without INRIA's caml team
> > commiting to something (so far noone answered the question about ocamlfind)
> > or at least beeing there, the meeting will get nothing done.
>
Yes, I confirm that I will be there!
--
Nicolas Pouillard aka Ertai
_______________________________________________
Sylvain Le Gall
>
> Not that i think a meeting is a bad idea, but without INRIA's caml team
> commiting to something (so far noone answered the question about ocamlfind)
> or at least beeing there, the meeting will get nothing done.
>
I agree on the fact that it should be better that some one from the
gallium team come (i think this is the project that take care of ocaml today).
But, i also think that there is no reason that good idea NEED someone
from INRIA. There is a lot of good idea that can just make their way,
even with no official support from INRIA...
Regards,
Sylvain Le Gall
Vincent Hanquez
> On 18-12-2007, Vincent Hanquez <t...@snarc.org> wrote:
> >
> > Not that i think a meeting is a bad idea, but without INRIA's caml team
> > commiting to something (so far noone answered the question about ocamlfind)
> > or at least beeing there, the meeting will get nothing done.
> >
>
> I agree on the fact that it should be better that some one from the
> gallium team come (i think this is the project that take care of ocaml today).
>
> But, i also think that there is no reason that good idea NEED someone
> from INRIA. There is a lot of good idea that can just make their way,
> even with no official support from INRIA...
I'm not saying you guys can't have good ideas, it's just, it will have
100x more productivity if the caml team is there to hear those good
ideas.
--
Vincent Hanquez
Vincent Hanquez
> Yes, I confirm that I will be there!
That's really good to hear !
--
Vincent Hanquez
Xavier Leroy
>> commiting to something (so far noone answered the question about
ocamlfind)
>> or at least beeing there, the meeting will get nothing done.
>>
>
> I agree on the fact that it should be better that some one from the
> gallium team come (i think this is the project that take care of
> ocaml today).
Correct. You can rest assured that some of us will attend. I'd be
very happy to if the dates work out: it's always a pleasure for me to
meet OCaml users and contributors in person. I'm also thinking how we
could help with organizing such an event, including through financial
support. It's too bad INRIA doesn't have facilities in downtown Paris
to host the event.
> But, i also think that there is no reason that good idea NEED someone
> from INRIA. There is a lot of good idea that can just make their way,
> even with no official support from INRIA...
Indeed. There's plenty of initiatives that this community can take,
and we're more than willing to support them if we can.
- Xavier Leroy