Should Math Be Taught in School

[meekerdb]

Are you the kind of person who knows math?

http://videosift.com/video/Miss-USA-2011-Should-Math-Be-Taught-In-Schools

Brent

[David Nyman]

Is it just me, or is there something about this that doesn't add up?

David

> Are you the kind of person who knows math?
>
> http://videosift.com/video/Miss-USA-2011-Should-Math-Be-Taught-In-Schools
>
> Brent
>

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[Noon Silk]

On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 10:41 PM, David Nyman <da...@davidnyman.com> wrote:
> On 13 August 2011 03:03, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > Are you the kind of person who knows math?
> >
> > http://videosift.com/video/Miss-USA-2011-Should-Math-Be-Taught-In-Schools
> >
> > Brent
>
> Is it just me, or is there something about this that doesn't add up?

I couldn't watch the whole thing.

But I have somewhat of a moral issue with teasing and treating meanly
almost *any* group. I mean, what's the implication here? That everyone
should know math? That everyone should be "smart" as defined by some
subjective measure? And if not, face derision? On what objective basis
do you determine that this group is deserving of shame? Should we make
fun of you because you don't know some particular facet of an area
they deem important? Why not, instead, try to understand where any
given group comes from, how they got there, and try to simply get
along?

I think it's complete rubbish, and it should be kept from the list.

--
Noon Silk

Fancy a quantum lunch? http://groups.google.com/group/quantum-lunch?hl=en

"Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature."

[John Mikes]

After a resounding "NO" the question: "who's math?" I find it absolutely inevitable to include in the obligatory general school curriculum "a certain" math, necessary to calculate, to balance a check-book, to file a tax return, to make (basic) business accounting and the practical 'figuring out' of life's quantitative aspects. Not the Euler theorem, or a Cauchy integral. Also a glimps of concepts like imaginary, complex, infinite, calculus, etc. not to the level of application, but at least to a dictionary identification. 

I find it belonging to a general educational level, way above of the average newscast<G>.

There are many kids with definite 'antitalent' for math, they should not be tortured, just taught conceptually. It should not be a go/no go for college, in general. Somebody can write beautiful historic poems, paint, or write a symphony without calculus-knowledge. 

A heart-surgeon can operate without knowing the math of a pacemaker-physics. 

And it may be a 'godsend' if economists would not be mathematicians, rather normal, logical people. 

Anyway the "pretty girls" are no real authorities in the question. 

 

--

[Pilar Morales]

I agree that math should probably not be taught in school, but algebra. In elementary school. But, all the student's questions would lead to math...

[smi...@zonnet.nl]

By not teaching math to kids, we are dumbing down the next generation.
Of course, most people do not have a talent for math, but then most
people do not have a talent for writing either. A few hundered years
ago, only a small fraction of the population was taught to read and
write. If you had proposed hat everyone should learn it, you would have
been ridiculed.

The argument that we shouldn't teach math to children because it isn't
of direct use to most people, is a nonsensical argument. We don't apply
that argument to any school subject, except to math and physics
(perhaps also astronomy, we don't teach anything about that in school).

So, while there isn't much practical use in knowing a lot about Europe
in the Middle ages, we do spend quite a lot of time about this subject
already in primary school. This does add a lot to the cultural baggage
of children as they grow up. You can make the same argument about
astronomy, physics and math. Surely, being able to understand at some
appropriate level how the elements were formed in stars, how the Sun
formed etc. etc. would add a lot to the general background of citizens.

If people would not learn about history, literature, etc. a lot of our
culture would de-facto go to waste. If no one knows about the works of
Shakespeare, then it wouldn't matter if Shakespeare had not bothered to
write his plays.

In case of math and physics, we are actually in this sort of a
situation. The great masses are scientific illiterates, most of the
scientific achievements, even the ancient ones are inaccesible to most,
simply because we choose not teach science in schools, beyond the very
basics.

This does have some negative consequences for society. E.g. most people
cannot see through the nonsensical arguments put forward by climate
change deniers, the position people have on this is then determined by
their political color, (particularly in the US as there the Republican
party mostly denies global warming caused by man).

Saibal

Citeren Pilar Morales <pilarmo...@gmail.com>:

> I agree that math should probably not be taught in school, but algebra. In
> elementary school. But, all the student's questions would lead to math...
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:33 AM, John Mikes <jam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> After a resounding "NO" the question: "who's math?" I find it absolutely
>> inevitable to include in the obligatory general school curriculum "a
>> certain" math, necessary to calculate, to balance a check-book, to file a
>> tax return, to make (basic) business accounting and the practical 'figuring
>> out' of life's quantitative aspects. Not the Euler theorem, or a Cauchy
>> integral. Also a glimps of concepts like imaginary, complex, infinite,
>> calculus, etc. not to the level of application, but at least to a dictionary
>> identification.
>> I find it belonging to a general educational level, way above of the
>> average newscast<G>.
>> There are many kids with definite 'antitalent' for math, they should not be
>> tortured, just taught conceptually. It should not be a go/no go for college,
>> in general. Somebody can write beautiful historic poems, paint, or write a
>> symphony without calculus-knowledge.
>> A heart-surgeon can operate without knowing the math of a
>> pacemaker-physics.
>> And it may be a 'godsend' if economists would not be mathematicians, rather
>> normal, logical people.
>> Anyway the "pretty girls" are no real authorities in the question.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:03 PM, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>

>>> **

[Bruno Marchal]

On 13 Aug 2011, at 22:16, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:

By not teaching math to kids, we are dumbing down the next generation. Of course, most people do not have a talent for math, but then most people do not have a talent for writing either. A few hundered years ago, only a small fraction of the population was taught to read and write. If you had proposed hat everyone should learn it, you would have been ridiculed.

The argument that we shouldn't teach math to children because it isn't of direct use to most people, is a nonsensical argument. We don't apply that argument to any school subject, except to math and physics (perhaps also astronomy, we don't teach anything about that in school).

So, while there isn't much practical use in knowing a lot about Europe in the Middle ages, we do spend quite a lot of time about this subject already in primary school. This does add a lot to the cultural baggage of children as they grow up. You can make the same argument about astronomy, physics and math. Surely, being able to understand at some appropriate level how the elements were formed in stars, how the Sun formed etc. etc. would add a lot to the general background of citizens.

If people would not learn about history, literature, etc. a lot of our culture would de-facto go to waste.  If no one knows about the works of Shakespeare, then it wouldn't matter if Shakespeare had not bothered to write his plays.

In case of math and physics, we are actually in this sort of a situation. The great masses are scientific illiterates, most of the scientific achievements, even the ancient ones are inaccesible to most, simply because we choose not teach science in schools, beyond the very basics.

This does have some negative consequences for society. E.g. most people cannot see through the nonsensical arguments put forward by climate change deniers, the position people have on this is then determined by their political color, (particularly in the US as there the Republican party mostly denies global warming caused by man).

I can only agree with you. Math is not taught enough, and not in the best spirit. 

And we pay the hard price.

I think that something like prohibition would not even exist if people were taught a bit of logic, or at least would not last for long. Sometimes I got the feeling that this absence of teaching is made on purpose to help demagogy and manipulation.

Many want the human science as non rigorous at all, so thy can offer position arbitrary, in some rotten academies. The lack of math, and the (artificial) separation between human and exact sciences, helps a lot. But in fine it makes the exact and the human sciences both inhuman and inexact.

It is a pity that politics and media are not independent, but now politics and academy are neither too, as your examples and others suggest.

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

[John Mikes]

Dear Saibal Mitra, thanks for the reply - 

as I remember for more than the past 15 years, your lines represent (still) pure rational thinking. 

However... I wouyld start for re-thinking 'education' from the US (and spreading) content: to TEACH stuff. A school has more duty than that. It should 'teach' the essence (a boiled down view with some content) of our culture (what is "our"?)  and some necessary ways to calculate. 

We should 'teach' how to think (do we have teachers for that?) and the 'original' sense of intelligence (inter-lego Lat = to read betseen the exact lines, to understand what is said and what is hidden). We should 'teach' (educate?) a profound humanE moral/ethical idea of more 'patriotism' than just our own tribal interests - as members of the global community. 

We should teach languages, organized and tonal music, sports for FUN and health, and - above all: ways to enjoy a lifestyle that is societally and environmentally advantageous for all. We also should 'teach' our past cultural products - you mentioned Shakespeare - with criticism of historical and literary readings universally including the advancement toward the present positions.  

The conventional sciences belong to our culture and should not be neglected. This is a pretty involved program and I have no advice how to implement it. I am no teacher. 

There must be a good compromise how to 'teach' while 'educate'. 

Specialized schooling can start after the above qualities have been achieved. Technicians and mathematicians can be developed as well as scientists in all facets. 

Politics must be understood in a totally different way from how it is practiced today if we want humanity to survive. 

Regards

John M

 

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