etm 2 - ideas welcome

[Dan]

Here is a link to the current state of thinking about etm 2. I'll update this document from time to time to reflect suggestions from you.

          sneakpeek

Please post your ideas and comments under this topic.

Thanks,
Dan

[Alexander Wagner]

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Hi Graham,

I like pretty much everything new you show for etm2 in the sneak peek. Quite excited actually!

I was wondering whether you had given any thought to integrating nts a bit into etm? For example, taking notes while completing an action (I use nts like a lab book), and being able to link a specific note to a task or event (the notes would require unique ids for that). I don't know if any of this might be good, but i have a feeling that, with etm and nts, 1+1>2 .

Best wishes,
Alex

[Alexander Wagner]

Sorry got your first and last names mixed up, Dan.

[Dan]

Alex,

What if you could leave the edit window for the action open while the timer is running and simply add your notes to the @n field for the action itself?

-Dan

[Alexander Wagner]

Hi Dan,

That is a possibility. I didn't really mean to highlight a particular problem I am having with etm. I was just curious whether etm and nts will remain isolated utilities in the foreseeable future or whether you foresee adding some functionalities that would link the two. For example, there might be ways one could have notes in etm might appear in nts, or that items in etm may have a command shortcut (like @g) to open an nts note (either in the default editor or in the nts gui).

I'm sorry I don't really have concrete ideas about this. If I come up with anything i'll write again.

Best wishes,
Alex

On 29/04/12 9:46 PM, Dan wrote:

Alex,

What if you could leave the edit window for the action open while the timer is running and simply add your notes to the @n field for the action itself?

-Dan

On Saturday, April 28, 2012 7:27:16 AM UTC-4, Alex wrote:

Hi Dan,

I like pretty much everything new you show for etm2 in the sneak peek. Quite excited actually!

I was wondering whether you had given any thought to integrating nts a bit into etm? For example, taking notes while completing an action (I use nts like a lab book), and being able to link a specific note to a task or event (the notes would require unique ids for that). I don't know if any of this might be good, but i have a feeling that, with etm and nts, 1+1>2 .

Best wishes,
Alex

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[Dan]

Alex,

Actually, I'm hoping to fold the functionality of nts into etm.  The tradeoff would be that instead of entering

+ note  (tag1, tag2)
note text
    continuing on a second line

you would enter

! note  @t tag1, tag2
@n note text
    continuing on a second line

The new etm would, of course, come with a script to incorporate any existing nts files.

Since the etm2 would be developed in pyqt rather than wxpython, trying to support a connection between the new etm and the current nts would be very difficult and would, IMHO,  serve little purpose. Note view in the new etm would be similar to the current display in nts - outlined by file path (project).

The new etm will support three new fields internally: unique id, datetime created and datetime last modified. E.g.,

    @I d74831d1-0bd0-4aba-a5f9-eb45770db79
    @C 20120117T132500
    @M 20120411T160000

The @I and @M fields mean that it will be possible to sync data files with the resulting file containing the most recently modified version of each item. The @I field means that it will also be possible to create links between items which. In ical these would be called "related" items.  The use of these links would be similar to the current etm support for goto links. Pressing the hot key with an item selected would pop up a list of linked items.

Am I missing anything from nts that would be important to you?

-Dan

On Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:21:45 AM UTC-4, Alex wrote:

Hi Dan,

[Alexander Wagner]

An almost full integration of nts functionality into etm2 as you suggest would be great! Having two apps open is not too tedious at the moment, but being able to control everything from etm and view and search the notes like in nts from one app would increase efficiency even more. The slight change in syntax is not a problem i would think. For notes it is especially useful being able to search by creation/modification date, in addition to the currently available manual date and timestamping, which i use liberally in tags and in the text flow at the moment. I suppose there would be no constraints on the path hierarchy of notes in etmdata/, i.e., etm would scan all files in the directory tree for note entries?

I very much look forward to the new etm2!

Best wishes,
Alex

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[lawquest]

I have tried using nts without much success so far. The concepts
elude me. I have many folders and subfolders and never really figured
out whether to put nts into a separate folder with nts in effect
duplicating my other, traditional, folders. I tried this first and it
seemed then that it would be better to put separate nts files in each
main subfolder, and so I tried that for a while, but found it took too
much time to load nts each time....that using a text editor to take
notes was faster. Often the note comes in unexpectedly, during a
phone call, and will be lost unless made immediately. So I have
decided to go back to one master nts and will do that when I get
time. I recall that being faster.

John

On Apr 29, 11:06 pm, Alexander Wagner

[Sebastian]

First of all, the project seems to look even more professional than
before,
and the screenshots are very promising.

***********
File / Item
***********

> when only a date is given. E.g., "@s 5/5" would give 12:00pm on May 5

Wouldn't it be more convinient to have parameter that says which
is the
default hour in these cases?

> Five types of alerts are now supported

I can't see the point distinguishing them - wasn't the one
commandline
(in this case it would be 'process') enough?

> Similary, this alert
>
> //
> @a e @t -2d &r ema...@blah.com, ema...@whatever.org @a file1, file2, file3
> //
>
> would send e)mails to the two listed r)ecipients exactly 2 days before the
> starting time of the event with the event summary as the subject, the event
> description with the date, time and location, if given, prepended as the
> body and with file1, file2 and file3 as attachments.

It makes thing much more complicated. Wouldn't

//
@a &t -2d 'mail_program --to="ema...@blah.com,
ema...@whatever.org" --attach="file1, file2, file3"'
//

be enough (by the way I can see nonconsistency i usage of '@t'
and '&t'
as 'trigger').

> the following new types
>
> ^ all day event
> = delegated task
> ? someday / maybe
> & inbox

Well, I prefer 'The consistent use of datetimes precludes the
old way of
distinguishing an all day event by simply omitting the starting
time'

The delegated task I would write using actual syntax '@U
another_person'.

And I have no idea what item type are the las two. I would use
'@c
someday/maybe' and '@c inbox' for appropriate item type.

> 'default lines' beginning with a percent character, '%', are now supported
> and can be used anywhere in a data file

What will happen if there will be several such a lines in a
file?
First line only solved this problem.

> task groups ... the priority entries, @p, set the prerequisites

To be clear - if someone wants two task groups with different
priorities, one sets it in the initial group line, e.g.:

//
- garden fence @k projects @s tue @p 1
- pickup lumber @p 1 @c errands
- pickup paint @p 1 @c errands
- mend missing pieces @p 2 @c errands
- paint @p 3 @c errands
+ dog house @k projects @s tue @p 2
+ pickup lumber @p 1 @c errands
+ pickup paint @p 1 @c errands
+ cut pieces @p 2 @c shop
+ assemble @p 3 @c shop
+ sand @p 4 @c shop
+ paint @p 5 @c shop
//

if so, I like this solution.

> Unique id and time stamps

I can see the point introducing @I, @C and @M but it will cause
very
clumsy data file. I suppose that you intend to move to SQLite
adding
this elements or it will become unreadable.

Linking elements seems interesting, but actually this can be
performed
grouping items by projects.
I don't see how to use it with text file (my only idea is
similar to
this used in wikis - one makes direct link to article name).

*************
The wish-list
*************

1. Shortcut exiting from 'search' field (actually to search the string
one
uses <ctrl-s> but to leave it one needs to use mouse).

2. Shortcuts for every action, e.g. <f> for finishing actions without
need to
click appropriate button (just to remember about it).

3. Internationalisation (i18n) - possible use of national translation
of the
application. I can see, that it's not possible to translate the
syntax and
shortcuts, so I mean only interface translation.

Generally, it seems I am rather bremsing you :) but I loved the
simplification
done with change from 7xx to 8xx version, now it's going complicated
again.

Best wishes

----
Sebastian

[Dan]

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:30:20 AM UTC-4, Sebastian wrote:

First of all, the project seems to look even more professional than
before,
and the screenshots are very promising.

***********
File / Item
***********

>  when only a date is given. E.g., "@s 5/5" would give 12:00pm on May 5

      Wouldn't it be more convinient to have parameter that says which
is the
      default hour in these cases?

Yes, it will still be possible to set a default starting time in your etmrc.
 

>  Five types of alerts are now supported

      I can't see the point distinguishing them - wasn't the one
commandline
      (in this case it would be 'process') enough?

>  Similary, this alert
>
>  //
>  @a e @t -2d &r ema...@blah.com, ema...@whatever.org @a file1, file2, file3
>  //
>
>  would send e)mails to the two listed r)ecipients exactly 2 days before the
>  starting time of the event with the event summary as the subject, the event
>  description with the date, time and location, if given, prepended as the
>  body and with file1, file2 and file3 as attachments.

      It makes thing much more complicated.  Wouldn't

      //
      @a &t -2d 'mail_program --to="ema...@blah.com,
ema...@whatever.org" --attach="file1, file2, file3"'
      //

      be enough (by the way I can see nonconsistency i usage of '@t'
and '&t'
      as 'trigger').

The use of @t instead of &t and @a instead of &a were typos and have been corrected in the on-line version. 

Actually, the use of &r rather than --to is much simpler for me to program since it preserves the consistent use of @ and & as field identifiers.

The addition of other alert types is done partly for consistency with vcal where these same alert types are supported.  It also makes entering or changing an alert as simple as changing a single character.

>  the following new types
>
>  ^   all day event
>  =   delegated task
>  ?   someday / maybe
>  &   inbox

      Well, I prefer 'The consistent use of datetimes precludes the
old way of
      distinguishing an all day event by simply omitting the starting
time'

I liked the old way too but it's not possible to simply omit the starting time when there is a single @s field for the starting date and time.
 

      The delegated task I would write using actual syntax '@U
another_person'.

Delegated tasks are treated differently - they have their own icon and sort position. The idea is that they are different from other tasks since you are presumably waiting for the person to whom the task was delegated to finish it.  You can, of course, use @u to record the name of the person and not designate the task as delegated if you like.
 

      And I have no idea what item type are the las two. I would use
'@c
      someday/maybe' and '@c inbox' for appropriate item type.

Inbox and someday are standard items in GTD.  The first is used when you want to get something down quickly without worring about date, item type or anything else. Such entries go in your inbox where you will see them and remember that they need further editing.

Someday/maybe is for tasks that you don't want to schedule and you don't want to appear each day as an undated task.  It is for ideas that you don't want to forget and that you will review from time to time.
 

>  'default lines' beginning with a percent character, '%', are now supported
>  and can be used anywhere in a data file

      What will happen if there will be several such a lines in a
file?
      First line only solved this problem.

A default line applies to subsequent items until another default line (or the end of the file) is reached.

>  task groups ... the priority entries, @p, set the prerequisites

      To be clear - if someone wants two task groups with different
      priorities, one sets it in the initial group line, e.g.:

      //
      - garden fence @k projects @s tue @p 1
      - pickup lumber       @p 1 @c errands
      - pickup paint        @p 1 @c errands
      - mend missing pieces @p 2 @c errands
      - paint               @p 3 @c errands
      + dog house @k projects @s tue @p 2
      + pickup lumber       @p 1 @c errands
      + pickup paint        @p 1 @c errands
      + cut pieces          @p 2 @c shop
      + assemble            @p 3 @c shop
      + sand                @p 4 @c shop
      + paint               @p 5 @c shop
      //

      if so, I like this solution.

A task group begins with the first + line and continues until an item begins with something other than + or =.

>  Unique id and time stamps

      I can see the point introducing @I, @C and @M but it will cause
very
      clumsy data file.  I suppose that you intend to move to SQLite
adding
      this elements or it will become unreadable.

The goal here is to make it possible to sync a data file with another data file or a vcal file. The only way of doing this that I know of is to maintain a unique id for items (across files) and to keep track of the last modification times. 

What if the id and datetime stamps could be turned off by folks who do not need the ability to sync files?
 

      Linking elements seems interesting, but actually this can be
performed
      grouping items by projects.
      I don't see how to use it with text file (my only idea is
similar to
      this used in wikis - one makes direct link to article name).

Maybe so. Someone requested this and it could be supported using the uniqueid though it would require the gui for convenient entry.
 

*************
The wish-list
*************

1. Shortcut exiting from 'search' field (actually to search the string
one
   uses <ctrl-s> but to leave it one needs to use mouse).

In the current version of etm you can press escape when the search field is active to cancel the search and restore the previous display.
 

2. Shortcuts for every action, e.g. <f> for finishing actions without
need to
   click appropriate button (just to remember about it).

Yes, shortcuts will be available.
 

3. Internationalisation (i18n) - possible use of national translation
of the
   application.  I can see, that it's not possible to translate the
syntax and
   shortcuts, so I mean only interface translation.

etm 2 will take advantage of the nice support for translation files provided by PyQt.
 

Generally, it seems I am rather bremsing you :) but I loved the
simplification
done with change from 7xx to 8xx version, now it's going complicated
again.

Well, I certainly don't want it to be more complicated and I honestly don't think it will be.

For example, it might seem more complicated to write

@a d &t -10, -5

than

@a (10, 5)

But you will be able to specify more than one alert using more than one alert type in the same item. Say an email to remind attendees of a meeting a day ahead of time and an audible reminder for yourself 10 minutes before the starting time. This would be impossible in the current etm where the use of @A simply overrides the default alert command.

Best wishes

----
Sebastian

Thanks very much for your thoughtful comments.  I don't know the term "bremsing" but hope others will do the same.

-Dan

[Sebastian]

Hi,

> Thanks very much for your thoughtful comments.  I don't know the term
> "bremsing" but hope others will do the same.

Sorry, I meant 'stopping', 'limiting' you (and the etm development).

One more wish to the wish-list: history of the item. Actually, I view
log files, but it would be nice to press 'H' (like history ;) and view
the 'life' of the selected item.

I like adding nts functionality (which didn't work properly on my
computer) to etm.

----
Sebastian

[Dan]

I like your history idea very much.  If the uniqueId of the item were added to the timestamp in the log entry, then a search for matching lines could be used to produce a view of the 'life' of the item --- yet another good reason for the uniqueId. ;-)

[Dan]

I've just posted an update to sneakpeek (link below) that incorporates many of your suggestions. Reactions would be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,
Dan

[Dan]

Here is a screen shot of the new, syntax-highlighting editor that will be part of etm 2. Entries get a color that reflects the type : event, task, etc. Field keys get special colors if they are associated with 1) repetitions, 2) group tasks or 3) otherwise. The item ids get a very light shade of gray that makes them appear as empty lines unless they are selected or have been edited and no-longer match the regex. Incorrect entries such as the @F also get highlighted.  These cases are illustrated. 

As always, reactions are appreciated.

-Dan

On Friday, April 27, 2012 1:59:06 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:

[lawquest]

sneakpeak "The goal would be enable a convenient ledger view for accounting and billing. Suggestions from folks who would use such a view would be greatly appreciated."

I think the new etm will help here, the goal being, as I see it, to be able to accurately capture both small and large amounts of time.  The timer changes will help but two or three timers all open at once would be great, being that in the hustle of the day, phone calls and other interruptions are commonplace.  So long as only one timer could be running at once, this should work.    Also, as you mention, some kind of grouping would be great, particularly for the current day.  It would be great, when putting in time for a client, to see all other time charged that same client on that day.  It would also be great to have a running total of time billed that day for all clients showing somewhere on the screen.  This would be informative, and would also help catch errors where, say, a timer was accidentally left on.   I don't know if this helps or not.  I think the main problem with the new etm is going to be the learning curve and look very much forward to your posting a movie-type script which we can watch in order to acclimate ourselves to the new etm.

[Daniel Graham]

John,

I'm surprised that you would want three timers running at the same time - you're not billing several clients for the same minute, are you? ;-)

How, by the way, would etm know that it's the same client? Because it has the same summary, keyword, context, user, tag or what?

One feature the new etm will support that might help is that when you select an item, you will have the option of creating a new action based on the selection. If the selected item is an action and it has the current date, you will have the further option of restarting the timer for the existing action.

-Dan

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[lawquest]

 I know you are kidding. My post contains the following:  "So long as only one timer could be running at once, this should work."  Might be nice, though, til they disbarred me.  I will look at the new etm before pushing this.  However, I have long wanted to be able to pause the timer, start another, pause it, start another, etc.  I have no clue how each open but paused timer would keep track of itself.  I just know that on a typical day I usually have 5 or 6 different projects that I am working on.  If I read the new etm manual correctly, I believe, will make it easier to switch from one to the other.  Sort of tell the story of the work done for each client on that day. 

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[Daniel Graham]

Sorry. There are a lot of lawyers in both my wife's family and mine and I've formed the bad habit of kidding all of them. I'm just jealous having spent much of my life talking to many students at the same time and never being able to bill any of them.

The new ability to restart a timer should be exactly what you want. Start a timer, record the action, start another timer, record that, decide you want to work on the first again, restart it.  As long as the date remains the same, you can restart any timer and, while it is active, you will see its total accumulated time. And since all of your recored actions for the current date will be displayed in the "day view" for the current date, it will be easy for you to select and restart any of them.

Even if the date has changed, the effect will be the same except that instead of restarting the timer from the existing time for the original action, etm will create a new action that is exactly like the original save for the new date and the timer starting from zero. The only significant change here would be that if you are, say, rounding times up to the next tenth of an hour in reports, then since etm rounds up the time for EACH recorded action, the reported totals might differ.

-Dan 

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[Dan]

Alex,

The new etm will have a scratch pad that you can open using Ctrl-S, enter whatever you like and either leave open or close. Whenever you open it, it will have whatever you left the last time you closed it.  You can use this to take notes while an action timer is running and then, when you finish the timer and are editing the action, you can enter "@d " and press Ctrl-I to insert the contents of the scratch pad as the description (notes) for the action.  Will this provide the functionality that you wanted?

-Dan

On Friday, April 27, 2012 1:59:06 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:

[lawquest]

This post reminds me of a pre-computer gadget that worked well and which I don't think I have mentioned.  It was simply a little metal box that a right-handed person placed on the right of his desk, within easy reach, and which had a 4" paper roll.  I'm sure there's a name for it but I don't know it. One used it by writing the date on it each morning and then as the day wore on, putting in various notes, phone numbers, reminders, etc.  As the paper filled up, one just rolled it up a bit and a new, blank writing area became available, and so on. Next day, scroll up a bit, put in the date, and it was ready to accept notes. Once the roll was completely filled up, it was placed in a box with that year's date on it.  Best note-taker ever but damn hard to search.  What I do, sadly, since I can't find one of those boxes and lost mine 30 years ago, is just write the note on whatever scrap of paper happens to be available, which I then usually lose.  So a scratchpad on etm which sort of does this is great.  The fact that the contents can be inserted into etm in an organized fashion for an action and searched is a real plus. But I still hope that it just runs on forever, as did the old metal box. Then all I would have to do is insert the note into etm's scratchpad and know that, given enough time, I could eventually find it again.

[lawquest]

Love etm.   However, I think etm2 should have a master something or other which a) prevents user from doing anything on the computer at least during working hours unless etm is up and running, 2, prevents user from entering data until user has clicked on an always on top gui file which has all the categories of things the user could possibly be doing and names of all cases he could possibly be working on, 3, as to certain files (email, google drive, openoffice, gnumeric, flpsed, computer phone etc) would prevent user from opening that program unless he first clicked on that client's icon, and 4, log time spent.  I have not thought this through.  I just hate entering my time.  Any time spent logging time is too much time spent logging time.  It is a ridiculous way of billing, forced on attorneys by some evil monster.   If the foregoing is crazy, as it probably is, how about an always-on set of magic icons which, by just clicking on one of them, something showing that something was done that day for that client would be inserted into etm which could later, in the calm of the day, while sipping on whiskey or some other mind-numbing potion, be expanded into a billable entry. 

[Dan]

But John, etm2 will do all that you ask and more!  Just kidding. Tell you what though, fly me out to Nevada and I will sit in your office with you for a few days and remind you to do the right things.

Monday must have been a bad day for you - sorry.

-Dan

[lawquest]

Yes, it was end of month and I was "doing bills."  When 40 things are going on at once, it is hard to take the time to log what is being done.  I pay for that when I finally look at the month's bills, only to find that I have negligently given away a lot of hard work.  One cannot bill for time not logged.   

'BTW, when I

[lawquest]

But, along these lines, I now make almost all my outgoing phone calls on my sip-phone, most often with linphone.  Linphone logs the time I was on that call and to whom it was made. Incoming and outgoing.  Same with email, in part, that part being that Seamonkey logs who I send an email to, and when I send it.  I guess I could rig my office door somehow to log who comes in, when, what day they came in, and how long before the door was opened again.  Perhaps if you get around to etm3, you could figure a way to sync this stuff with etm.  Or, instead, as you say, I could learn to do the "right things."