[erlang-questions] Which EEP would you pick as the most important one to implement next?

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Michael Turner

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Aug 31, 2012, 5:18:23 AM8/31/12
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Since it seems to A Time for Big Questions on this mailing list.

-michael turner
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Loïc Hoguin

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Aug 31, 2012, 5:30:20 AM8/31/12
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On 08/31/2012 11:18 AM, Michael Turner wrote:
> Since it seems to A Time for Big Questions on this mailing list.

Sounds useful: http://www.erlang.org/eeps/eep-0035.html

--
Loïc Hoguin
Erlang Cowboy
Nine Nines
http://ninenines.eu

Jesper Louis Andersen

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Aug 31, 2012, 5:56:22 AM8/31/12
to Loïc Hoguin, erlang-q...@erlang.org
I'd definitely like EEP 16, the is_between/3 function (and usable in guards) I'd also like a clamp(X, Lo, Hi) with implementation:

clamp(X, Lo, Hi) ->
min(max(X, Lo), Hi).

(Brace for mistakes - I might have gotten it wrong). The idea is to provide a limit on X. X will never go below Lo and will never go beyond Hi. It turns out that my code is using this quite a lot, and often in inner loops, so getting a fast variant could be useful.


Jesper Louis Andersen
Erlang Solutions Ltd., Copenhagen

Ivan Uemlianin

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Aug 31, 2012, 5:59:18 AM8/31/12
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On 31/08/2012 10:56, Jesper Louis Andersen wrote:
> clamp(X, Lo, Hi) ->
> min(max(X, Lo), Hi).
>
> (Brace for mistakes - I might have gotten it wrong). The idea is to provide a limit on X. X will never go below Lo and will never go beyond Hi. It turns out that my code is using this quite a lot, and often in inner loops, so getting a fast variant could be useful.

Looks interesting. Are the values integers or floats? What about a NIF?

Ivan


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============================================================
Ivan A. Uemlianin PhD
Llaisdy
Speech Technology Research and Development

iv...@llaisdy.com
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Florian Schintke

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Aug 31, 2012, 7:17:04 AM8/31/12
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I like EEP19 as there seem to be a wide spectrum of nice use cases
simplifying written code and thereby supporting the spirit of Erlang.

http://www.erlang.org/eeps/eep-0019.html

Florian

Zabrane Mickael

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Aug 31, 2012, 7:32:42 AM8/31/12
to Florian Schintke, erlang-q...@erlang.org
+1 for EEP19

Regards,
Zabrane

Dmitry Demeshchuk

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Aug 31, 2012, 7:44:12 AM8/31/12
to Loïc Hoguin, erlang-q...@erlang.org
Totally agree with EEP 35, looks like a great addition.
--
Best regards,
Dmitry Demeshchuk

Rapsey

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Aug 31, 2012, 8:28:58 AM8/31/12
to Dmitry Demeshchuk, erlang-q...@erlang.org
I'm surprised implementing frames is not an EEP. This is definitely the most lacking feature of erlang by far.


Sergej

o...@cs.otago.ac.nz

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Aug 31, 2012, 8:42:05 AM8/31/12
to Rapsey, erlang-q...@erlang.org
> I'm surprised implementing frames is not an EEP. This is definitely the
> most lacking feature of erlang by far.

It would have been, but by the time I was ready to submit it
as one, there was a hard requirement that EEPS be marked up
in a basically undefined formalism, and a number of things I
needed to mark up, I could not figure out how to mark up.
That requirement terminated my contribution to EEPs.

I learned RUNOFF. I learned SCRIBE. I learned Troff. I
learned TeX. I learned LaTeX. I learned Lout. I learned
SGML, HTML, XML, XHTML, ... I'm willing to learn any markup
notation that has a tolerably complete tolerably accurate
manual. Markdown, however, does not.

Vlad Dumitrescu

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Aug 31, 2012, 8:55:51 AM8/31/12
to o...@cs.otago.ac.nz, erlang-q...@erlang.org
Hi Richard,

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:42 PM, <o...@cs.otago.ac.nz> wrote:
>> I'm surprised implementing frames is not an EEP. This is definitely the
>> most lacking feature of erlang by far.
>
> It would have been, but by the time I was ready to submit it
> as one, there was a hard requirement that EEPS be marked up
> in a basically undefined formalism, and a number of things I
> needed to mark up, I could not figure out how to mark up.
> That requirement terminated my contribution to EEPs.
>
> I learned RUNOFF. I learned SCRIBE. I learned Troff. I
> learned TeX. I learned LaTeX. I learned Lout. I learned
> SGML, HTML, XML, XHTML, ... I'm willing to learn any markup
> notation that has a tolerably complete tolerably accurate
> manual. Markdown, however, does not.

This is certainly not what the EEP maintainers would really like to
see, but any valid HTML that can be found inside a <body> tag is also
valid Markdown. The weird formalism are just shortcuts for commonly
used structures. So technically, you could write contents of the EEP
in plain HTML and it will follow the letter of the EEP guidelines. You
only have to add the EEP headers and some delimiters.

Please don't let this detail delay a most needed proposal!

best regards,
Vlad

Steve Vinoski

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Aug 31, 2012, 10:39:35 AM8/31/12
to Vlad Dumitrescu, o...@cs.otago.ac.nz, erlang-q...@erlang.org
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Vlad Dumitrescu <vlad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:42 PM, <o...@cs.otago.ac.nz> wrote:
>>> I'm surprised implementing frames is not an EEP. This is definitely the
>>> most lacking feature of erlang by far.
>>
>> It would have been, but by the time I was ready to submit it
>> as one, there was a hard requirement that EEPS be marked up
>> in a basically undefined formalism, and a number of things I
>> needed to mark up, I could not figure out how to mark up.
>> That requirement terminated my contribution to EEPs.
>>
>> I learned RUNOFF. I learned SCRIBE. I learned Troff. I
>> learned TeX. I learned LaTeX. I learned Lout. I learned
>> SGML, HTML, XML, XHTML, ... I'm willing to learn any markup
>> notation that has a tolerably complete tolerably accurate
>> manual. Markdown, however, does not.
>
> This is certainly not what the EEP maintainers would really like to
> see, but any valid HTML that can be found inside a <body> tag is also
> valid Markdown. The weird formalism are just shortcuts for commonly
> used structures. So technically, you could write contents of the EEP
> in plain HTML and it will follow the letter of the EEP guidelines. You
> only have to add the EEP headers and some delimiters.
>
> Please don't let this detail delay a most needed proposal!

Agreed. Also, Richard, you might try writing your proposal in
something other than markdown, something that gives you what you're
aiming for, and then using pandoc to convert it to markdown for
submission -- see http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ if you're not
familiar with pandoc.

--steve

Paul Oliver

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Aug 31, 2012, 11:19:59 AM8/31/12
to Rapsey, erlang-questions

+1

Matti Oinas

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Aug 31, 2012, 2:09:09 PM8/31/12
to Steve Vinoski, erlang-q...@erlang.org
Richard, if all these methods fail then I volunteer to learn all the
needed markdown and do the conversion for you.

- Matti

Garrett Smith

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Aug 31, 2012, 2:22:59 PM8/31/12
to Matti Oinas, erlang-q...@erlang.org, Steve Vinoski
So if there was an EEP #40 for Frames, how would that fall out in the voting?

+1 for me - this is easily the most missing feature from the language.

I'm not familiar with the EEP process (lazy) but if someone were to
just convert Richard's most current proposal, whatever format it's in,
to an EEP, would that work? I'd be more than happy to tackle that.

Garrett

Richard O'Keefe

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Sep 2, 2012, 8:41:42 PM9/2/12
to Garrett Smith, erlang-q...@erlang.org, Steve Vinoski

On 1/09/2012, at 6:22 AM, Garrett Smith wrote:
> So if there was an EEP #40 for Frames, how would that fall out in the voting?
>
> +1 for me - this is easily the most missing feature from the language.
>
> I'm not familiar with the EEP process (lazy) but if someone were to
> just convert Richard's most current proposal, whatever format it's in,
> to an EEP, would that work? I'd be more than happy to tackle that.

The current proposal is a LaTeX document that formats as 54 pages
of PDF. It needs to be drastically shortened to make a good EEP.

Richard O'Keefe

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Sep 2, 2012, 8:53:41 PM9/2/12
to Steve Vinoski, erlang-q...@erlang.org

On 1/09/2012, at 2:39 AM, Steve Vinoski wrote:
> Agreed. Also, Richard, you might try writing your proposal in
> something other than markdown, something that gives you what you're
> aiming for, and then using pandoc to convert it to markdown for
> submission -- see http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ if you're not
> familiar with pandoc.

No, I wasn't familiar with pandoc.
I'm installing it now.
It's a little disconcerting seeing deprecation warnings,
but at least they're _only_ deprecation warnings,
whoops, wrote too soon.

ld: warning: could not create compact unwind for .LFB3: non-standard register 5 being saved in prolog

There is a problem. It converts LaTeX `` to `` and ' and '' to some UTF8
gibberish even when I specify --ascii. When I convert to HTML, I see this:

The topic is really a little more general:
it’s ``getting insight into the structure and behaviour of a
program by using tools that summarise execution traces’’.

Radosław Misiuk

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Sep 3, 2012, 4:00:43 AM9/3/12
to erlang-q...@erlang.org
W dniu 2012-09-03 02:53, Richard O'Keefe pisze:
On 1/09/2012, at 2:39 AM, Steve Vinoski wrote:

Agreed. Also, Richard, you might try writing your proposal in
something other than markdown, something that gives you what you're
aiming for, and then using pandoc to convert it to markdown for
submission -- see http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ if you're not
familiar with pandoc.

No, I wasn't familiar with pandoc.
I'm installing it now.
It's a little disconcerting seeing deprecation warnings,
but at least they're _only_ deprecation warnings,
whoops, wrote too soon.

ld: warning: could not create compact unwind for .LFB3: non-standard register 5 being saved in prolog

There is a problem.  It converts LaTeX `` to `` and ' and '' to some UTF8
gibberish even when I specify --ascii.  When I convert to HTML, I see this:

	The topic is really a little more general:
	it’s ``getting insight into the structure and behaviour of a
	program by using tools that summarise execution traces’’.

While I'm not really sure, it probably has something to do with xunicode package in LaTeX.
I had similar problems and --latex-engine=xelatex helped.

Richard O'Keefe

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Sep 3, 2012, 6:07:35 PM9/3/12
to Radosław Misiuk, erlang-q...@erlang.org

On 3/09/2012, at 8:00 PM, Radosław Misiuk wrote:
>>
>
> While I'm not really sure, it probably has something to do with xunicode package in LaTeX.
> I had similar problems and --latex-engine=xelatex helped.

Given that I've never even heard of xunicode before and from checking
the LaTeX .log file do not pick it up in this case even indirectly,
"probably" has to be read as "probably, for p = 0".

Pandoc's handling of LaTeX is simply buggy. It pays no attention to
``obeylines'', it simply drops \slash instead of turning it into /,
it inserts paragraph breaks between two adjacent printing characters, ...

Daniel Goertzen

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Sep 6, 2012, 3:18:16 PM9/6/12
to Michael Turner, erlang-q...@erlang.org
Not an EEP, but I've always wished gproc was part of the standard Erlang distro.

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