The Turkey Trot finish

[boroxc]

There needs to be some solution to the disaster at the finish for the
10-K and the 5-K. I know that I complain a lot, but I heard numerous
people complaining about the same thing. I know that Mr. Comi tried
to tell 5-K runners to stay to the right, but obviously that didn't
work. I don't know about other 10-K runners, but I found it almost
impossible to actually run through the finish. There were at least 2
runners that probably have my footprints on their backs as I had to
almost throw elbows to get through. I was okay at first when I had to
just weave my way around, but there really was no other option other
that throwing elbows once I got further down. There almost needs to
be cones set up and someone to tell 5-K runners to stay to the right
at the intersection between the main road and the old beach road. I
was at a point that was spread out enough for the 10-K that all we
needed was one small stretch that we could run. I can't image what it
was like when the 10-K race got to the middle.

Is there any way that the 5-K finish could be further up the road,
almost where the intersection was? The 5-K turn-around might have to
be somewhere on the main road, but at least there would be very little
combustion. It is hard enough to catch another runner ahead of you
near the finish when there is no one around, but the runner that
finished ahead of me in the 10-K was only 20 seconds ahead of me and I
never saw him at all. I could have passed him and wouldn't have known
it. I know that having two different finish lines might not be
possible, but there needs to be some solution. The runners that I
elbowed were lucky that I only weight 145 pounds.

[Ange]

Well said.

[Vieyra, Mike]

Maybe the best way you could impact this is to become a volunteer or race director.

Become a leader to correct the shortcomings of our club.

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[Ange]

better than well said.
dave always does a fine job...

> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/erie-runners-club?hl=en.

[boroxc]

I may not volunteer or direct races for the Erie Runners Club, but I
have helped to run races for McDowell, for both cross country and
track. I know what it is like trying to figure out what to do when
runners are going the wrong way, races overlap each other, or even
when the results are wrong. I have helped to make better maps, enter
results, work on rankings, and even direct traffic. I can understand
a volunteer or race director being offended by my comments, but I can
also say that only in Erie are there races where you have to run
people over to finish, measure the course yourself to see how far you
actually ran, or be critisized for helping to make a race better. I
am only saying that we need to come up with a better solution, not
that I could do it better myself.

On Nov 26, 2:36 pm, "Vieyra, Mike" <Mike.Vie...@zurn.com> wrote:

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> - Show quoted text -

[Kelsey Markham]

I ran the 5k, so I probably shouldn't say anything, but I'd just like
to say that I agree with boroxc, and I think that it would not be hard
at all to put up a sign that says 5k keep right, 10k keep left, so
that the finish ran a little more smoothly. It's not fair for the 10k
runners to have to dodge the walkers/people with dogs & strollers/
people cooling down/spectators/chaos at the finish. I think that it
is very unfair that anytime he (or anyone) complains/makes a
suggestion, the race directors/volunteers/people who direct traffic
get offended and defensive, or don't take the suggestions seriously.
I know from being an officer for my XC club in college that when we
host a meet, we ALWAYS ask for suggestions after the race, because the
race directors should be trying to plan the best race possible, and
improve the race every year. (And isn't that what the point of having
this google group is??) I don't think that boroxc is complaining just
for the sake of complaining-- he's just simply giving suggestions to
make the race run smoothly. Also, I don't think suggesting that he
become a race director is constructive at all-- he's a Runner and he's
trying to make the races better for the other runners through
suggestions. The Race Directors we have now are doing a fine job, but
there are always improvements that could be made, especially with the
race growing to 2500 people.

That being said, thank you to the race directors and the volunteers
for your time. I know planning race isn't easy and I thought that the
5k race was run well for the most part and I know I had a great time.
Can't wait for the New Years/St. Pattys Day races! :)

Kelsey Markham

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Jim]

Gotcha

The finish does need work. However, there are constraints that make
splitting them something we cannot do at this time. We simply don't
have enough equipment for that. In the past, the 5k and 10k were run
separately. (I helped put a stop to that myself - that was a tag
race, and there are other problems with that). Maybe we could bring
that back. BUT (and this is a big butt) there are still equipment
issues to address to do that. Next year will probably be different,
but it's up in the air. We'll have to work within whatever
constraints we have.

Next year's race director, whomever it is, will have my full support
for whatever he (or she) decides to do. It's not going to be easy no
matter what happens.

If you want to get something fixed, start off with something other
than "This race was a disaster and here's why." Your first sentence
sets a tone for the whole posting. When I see something like that, I
cringe and I simply don't want to read the rest of the message.
Whatever you have to say, you're starting with a complaint, and the
whole thing is viewed in that light.

If you want to get my attention, a better way to start off would be,
well, like I just did. The first paragraph is positive or
expository. Had this been an initial post in the thread, it would
have started with "Great race. I really enjoyed the beer keg at the
finish. You should have seen the chugging contest..." Then get into
a discussion of the issue. It would help if you avoided things like
"disaster", "mess", "awful", and other extreme, negative adjectives.
I usually stop reading as soon as I see that. Why? Because, doggone
it, I'm tired, and I always have a lot of time and effort invested in
these things.

Kelsey, given that there were 1900 5k participants and 600 10k, I'd
say the 5k runners (and walkers) have as much right to discuss this as
anyone. We're not going to make the 5k a second-class event to make
the 10k better. We ought to be working to make all the events
better. So tell us what you like and don't like.

Now, I had planned to get back to football, but it's over. But my
napping chair is right over there....

Thanks to you all.
Jim.

[Jim]

Correction - about 1700 in the 5k races combined. Jim

[Jason]

What a beautiful day for a race we didnt get rained out and the
weather was as good as we could ask for in Erie this time of the year.
Congrats to all the winners and to everyone that gets out here and
does something. Weather thats running 4 min. miles or walking your 1st
5k. I think any race with this amount of people on such a narrow road
will have its problems, I know I ran in the 5k and had a heated
discussion with a few ladies at the start of the race that clearly did
not hear the announcement for slower runners and walkers to stay
towards the rear. Maybe a simple letter or a simple set of
instructions could be given out when we pick up are chip and shirts
and ask the people to please look at them and hope for the best next
year. I know I wasted a very good amount of time trying to work my way
thru everyone at the start. All in all it was another great race and
look forward to doing it next year. There is nothing the race
directors or anyone can do for people that dont race often and have
poor race etiquette.

[Suzy]

Thank you Dave and the countless volunteers who put in many hours to
make todays race a race for ALL. This was my first 10K and I had a
great race and a great experience. I was able to avoid any end of
race disaster by not crossing the finish line until 1:12. There will
always be glitches in every race that may affect a person's
performance. I am sure that I would be much faster if I had not
tapered for 51 years prior to this race. The important thing is that
it did not snow, the rain was just a light mist and as far as I know
no person left the race in an ambulance and I feel completly justified
in eating that second helping of turkey. Suzy

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[boroxc]

What about having the 5-K runners start at the same time as they did,
but instead of heading in the direction they did, they could head in
the same direction as the 10-K runners. They would still be finishing
on the right side (their left), and the 10-K runners would finish on
their left. You could still have a common finish line mat, but the
finishers would be coming from opposite directions. The finish would
be somewhat narrow at the very end because of the area that would have
to be roped off for the other runners, but at least you wouldn't have
to run anyone over to find the finish line.

As far as starting off with a negative, it gets more attention than a
positive note. I don't know about most people, but I tend to read the
negative comments in the letters to the editors section of the paper.
One positive with the race that I do appreciate was that there was an
option for no shirt. That was something that I have been suggesting
for a while for those of us that have been running for over 10 years.

[bethmcl...@ymail.com]

It was a great day! I brought my friend for her first 5k and we had a blast! It was so exciting to see so many peole out doing something good for themselves especially on a day when most of us had a ton to do. I have to say in response to previous post it was a bit congested but I simply expected that. I made my goal not to set my best 5K time and simply just be happy to be outside. That being said I agree with the suggestion of better signage or written instructions because it was hard to hear the announcer. Also is it possible to make division lines at the start line for walkers and runners?

Thanks for all you guys do to make it a success!

Beth McLaughlin
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

[JT]

The ERC Turkey trot has become a family tradition for us over the past
6 years. My wife, daughter, and I run it every year. We recognize the
great efforts that the club, volunteers, and race directors go through
and we always make it a point to thank them everytime we have the
chance! We have been members of ERC for the past 6 years. We would
love to have more input into the club although time and distance play
a major factor in our ability to contribute. Having said all
that....is there room for improvement in some events? Probably. Are
the events well planned, organized, and cheap....YES. Erie area
runners should be thankful that the ERC exists and sponsers so many
events. For those of us that live in the hinterlands we are greatful
to be able to run at such a beautiful location like Presque Isle. Sure
we like to be competative and strive for PRs. But we're not going to
throw elbows or lose our humanity to achieve that goal. 2500 of our
extended running community showed up yesterday to compete,
participate, and enjoy the experience. We need to examine our
priorities and be thankful for what we are blessed with.
Thanks ERC!

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[boroxc]

The point I was trying to make when it came to throwing elbows was to
the describe the chaos at the end of the race. I am not an aggressive
runner by any means, but when you are running 11 miles per hour around
people who are jogging or walking, it can become a safety issue. I
understand that there were about 1900 people in the 5-K, but with only
584 10-K runners, we should have a clear path to the finish. This is
where I think if the races came from different directions, we wouldn't
have as much of an issue at the finish line.

[ginny]

wow, a lot of feedback from this race. i agree, finish was crowded,
however i did not personally have any issues with the finish. my
concern was when we first turned off the old beach road on to the main
road and a volunteer was yelling at us to stay to the left. which
normally isn't an issue, but there were so many cars parked on the
left hand side that we had a lot less room to stay on the left. it's
great that the race reached record numbers this year, but if the
peninsula and the club are not equiped to accomodate the masses
comfortably, i suggest capping the registration at 1500. also, no
strollers, no dogs etc. keep it simple...

[Jason]

I just did the Susan G Komen race in Macon GA. and they had a option
if you wanted to have a chip for timing. It seemed to work pretty good
because they had all the people that were there to race start before
the rest of the runners who did not care to be timed, slower runners,
walkers etc. It cost a extra $3 for the chip. Maybe something like
that could help ease the difference between the racers and the people
that are there for a fun run.

> > have as much of an issue at the finish line.- Hide quoted text -

[Eric Weislogel]

really could not be more impressed w/ how this race was managed.  The event seems to grow exponetially and PI is limited.  What an amazing job the ERC and it's volunteers did this year making it all happen, thank you!  I had 6 families members that have never participated in this event until this year join me this year and already are excited for next year...isn't that the goal? 

[Dennis Albrewczynski]

I did the 10k. It was my first race ever. I had a blast. Already
signed up for the Snowflake. Thank you to all the organizers and
volunteers.

[wmccall]

Hello Erie runners. Let me say thank you for having the event. I was
a high school CC runner in the 70s and as one of your leaders said on
WJET news, you had a lot of people like me, visiting coming home to
Erie, to run in this event. I was one of them. I loved the event and
now that I am running again, hope to participate in more ERC events in
2010.

Being 50 years old, I need stretching time so I always get to a race
an hour ahead of time, I'm glad I did this time. I did get a new PR
on this course despite the congestion at the end. Would it be better
to start the 5K first and then the 10k 10-15 minutes after? There
would still be stragglers but there would be less of them. Being that
timing chips are used, most of us in the 10k wouldn't have a huge
problem with what the clock says when we cross.

I did manage to run around the stragglers ok, from what I saw, the
main problem came from the onlookers. For a running crowd this size
it seemed like there was more than the normal amount of spectators. I
had problems with those people jumping out into road trying to get
pictures or to cheer on their runners.

That said, I had a wonderful time, obviously the ERC knows how to run
a race and a huge turnout is a problem that is good and I'm sure you
will have an even better event next year.

[Gary]

Gary's 2 cents.

This was a good race. I always enjoy it. It's well organized, and
the post race picnic thing is nice (I bailed on it this year to drive
to another race).

It can always be better. Kevin's complaint about the finish seems
valid to me. It's pretty rough trying to push to the finish and
tripping over people. Maybe start the 5-k 20 minutes later, or have
the finish around the Rotary Pavilian parking lot where it can be a
lot wider. The 5-k runners did stay right, but there were so many
that they took up the whole course. The other thing that I think
could make it better is a water stop. I know that it would most
likely be an ice stop, but it isn't like we can move Erie to a warmer
climate or change when Thanksgiving is.

One more thing about this funneling crowdedness. I've run a lot of
races in a lot of places. It's my second biggest pet peeve (The first
being when they don't have any small size t-shirts left) Merging races
of different distances late on the course is always a mess. This
wasn't nearly as bad as the Air Force Marathon. It was crowded for
miles, and you had to fight people to get a drink at the aid
stations. The stupidest I've seen was the Bass Pro shop Marathon
where the Half & Full courses at some points were along the same
narrow paved trail in opposite directions.

On Nov 26, 12:37 pm, boroxc <mcdowel...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Christine Vassen]

I was recording my times from the Turkey Trot in my log book. I PR. I
didn't think I did but instead I cut 3 minutes off. Similar to Suzy's
comment, we had no problems at the finish line due to our pace. I know of 4
people who PR - definitely a memorable race for me.

I was thinking about what Kevin wrote and the various responses. I guess
I'm just bummed to hear that people got elbowed during a fun holiday run. I
left the race and joined my family and friends over the holiday weekend.
Most of them asked how I did and how the race went. I would have been
bummered if part of my story included getting elbowed out of the way because
I wasn't fast enough and/or couldn't get out of the way. Luckily, my
stories were about how it was an amazingly wonderful day. I'd always end my
comments about how it's a supportive environment. The fact it sold out I'm
sure made organizing the mass of people quite an undertaking.

Overall, I'd like to say thank you for a positive race experience and I look
forward to the New Year's Day race as part of the Winter Series.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <gary.k...@gmail.com>
To: "Erie Runners Club" <erie-run...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:50 PM
Subject: [Erie Runners Club] Re: The Turkey Trot finish