our current system or $

[the taoist shaman]

how long before all the welth is held by a small group , and what
happens to the rest of us ? is there a way to stop the storm on the
horizon , or is there no storm at all ?

[nominal9]

Ever Hear of William of Ockham.... Nominalism... more as an "empirical
way" to think rather that as the opinions that you or anyone should
hold....?
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ockham/
http://plato.stanford.edu/search/searcher.py?query=Nominalism
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nominalism-metaphysics/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism/

Idealism... Realism.... Phenomenology...Nominalism

Anyway... there's a lot of them... after a while... others (and after
them me too) started to see "patterns" or threads between them and
thought that most "philosophies" fall under one of the above broad
headings.... and that they differ
logically one heading from the nextr.... anyway, I chose
nominalism.... you may want to consider decidiing or trying to
understand which one you yourself prefer....I was about your age when
I tried to make my choice decision judgment....

Mind's Eye....
THAR be Censors THAR....
Censors Be folks who thinks they knows it All... when they really
don't know shit...
It's important to know shit, at least. HAR....

[the taoist shaman]

thats way too much reading , and very confusing , im not familiar w/
proper terms , am i a realist or a dreamer i think was the subject of
the reading , but i only skimmed it so , ? all dreamers see themselves
as realist or the dream would be dead. i am a defeated dreamer , like
the living dead u know !

[nominal9]

Hi TS... nice to make your acquaintance....I guess you just don't have
the interest, now.... but if you ever do, I suggest that you try some
of the "classical" so-called philosophers... instead of taoist shamans
or metaphysical quasi-religious sorts , like buddhists or
tanscendentalists and such as a way toward understanding things...
folks like Plato ( beginning Idealism) or Aristotle (beginning
Realism) or Kant (beginning Phenomenology) or W.of Ockham (beginning
Nominalism) ... then you can go to the ones (other philosophers) who
took the original threads and carried them on in different
ways....Anyway, my own very general way of understanding it is that
there's a basic division in Reality and a thinking being's
understanding of it... a sort of interplay between the thinking brain
and the outside world it tries to understand (alog with self-
consciously understanding itself, of course)... the difference is
basically one between the Idea and the Thing... otherwise put as the
Concept and the Reference...Mind and Matter

Idealists think that both the Idea and the Thing are subjective,
entirely dependent on what the self-conscious brain ultimately thinks"
they (Concept and Reference) are... SUBJECTIVE

Realists think that both the Idea and the Thing are objective,
entirely dependent on what the Thing forces the self-conscious brain
to understand about them (Concept and Reference)... OBJECTIVE

Nominalists think that there's a split in the way the self-conscious
brain and the outside reality operate....The self -conscious brain
operates subjectively as to its own Ideas (or Concept) but the Thing
is completely separated or foreign from the self-conscious brain and
the Thing (or Reference) is itself objectively controlled by its own
ways and means of being and operation... SUBJECTIVE / OBJECTIVE

Phenomenologists also think that there's a split in the way the self-
conscious brain and the outside reality operate... but
Phenomenologists posit that the self-conscious brain operates
objectively and that the self conscious brain contains a perfect Idea
(or Concept) of what the Template or "Essence" of all outside reality
Things should be... the outside reality Things then become mere
subjective or imperfect manifestations of those perfect
Essences.....OBJECTIVE / SUBJECTIVE

Now, my guess is that as a self-described taoist shaman.... you might
tend toward the Phenomenological view of ideas and things....

Whereas myself, I am a Nominalist leaning Person when it come to my
view of ideas and things...

Can You see that you and I would tend to think just the opposite at a
very fundamental level?

nominal9

[the taoist shaman]

i was leaning tward PH. and NOM. more PH. the extent of my taoist
shamanizm is questonable i don't like titles something i feel is a
taoist like idea - void , undefined - id feel that hollusanagins
connect to spirit world , nature speeks w/out words

greetings nice to meet u

[the taoist shaman]

reliying on logic can be dangerous , things are unpridictable , to
know is delusion , to not know is ignorance

[nominal9]

reliying on logic can be dangerous , things are unpridictable , to

know is delusion , to not know is ignorance / TS

I agree... Empiricism is at the root of, at least, Realism and
Nominalism....

Idealism and Phenomeology tend more toward "logic"... although there
really isn't much sense to most of their so-called "logic"...

W. of Ockham is probably best appreciated by me for FIRST making "the"
distinction between the way the self-conscious mind understands
"reality" either through FIRST INTENTION or subsequently through
SECOND INTENTION
http://dictionary.die.net/first%20intention

5. (Logic) Any mental apprehension of an object.

First intention (Logic), a conception of a thing formed by
the first or direct application of the mind to the
individual object; an idea or image; as, man, stone.

Second intention (Logic), a conception generalized from
first intuition or apprehension already formed by the
mind; an abstract notion; especially, a classified notion,
as species, genus, whiteness.

Anyway... FIRST INTENTION operates on what Ockham calls "intuition"
but nowadays is better understood as "Empirical Examination"... or
maybe direct "Factual Experimentation" on something... like dissecting
a frog... or putting some bit of matter stuff through a mass
specrtometer.... etc. that is to say... the conscious mind considers a
single and specific factual "thing"....or maybe even a mental thing,
off sorts, like the feeling of an emotion....but mental considerations
are mostly of the other sort... below

SECOND INTENTION, according to Ockham, is when the conscious mind
thinks about all sorts of things in its memory and starts making
possible connections of all sorts between them... the more common ones
are like one man as distinguished from the generalized notion of all
men....Jim for example is different from Tom.... but they are alike in
at least some ways... they are both (or all) "men....the distinction
between the individual... the species and the genus... etc. but also
consider other sorts of "abstract" thinking... like numbers and doing
math... etc....

Anyway.... Ockham though this up... this separation between direct
empirical experience and abstracted "'thought" constructions....

Pretty fundamental stuff.... and really revolutionary, I think.....
but try to tell it to the strict Realists, Idealists or especially the
Phenomenologists.... they either don't get it.... or don't WANT to
get it....

ignorance... sure is possible even for Nominalists.... sometimes the
specific conscious mind either doesn't have the "brains" to come up
with the right idea... or sometimes the "thing" just can't be
experimented on in the right way to understand it.... Pretty much a
state of constant agnostiicism (Don't- Know- Itedness)....But with
time and more brains and progress working at it.... more "stuff" if
learned about more and more things....

PS... most of the "techie" guys around here don't know crap about this
stuff, either....HAR

[the taoist shaman]

u seem like ur Not a dumb F , ill take the time to read the links u
previously sent , the people of minds eye r children who love to
hate , i tend to lean to the 2nd intention but realize it hase
limitations , if not u end up w/ people like the kkk . my 2nt
intention is more focused on nature in relation to society and
personal relation as well as philosophy and religion , --- does the
name riggs ring a bell for you ?

~

[the taoist shaman]

damn rigs was off hey lee

[nominal9]

Hi TS....
Don't get too involved in the links, if they bore or just confound
you... it's something that anyone has to build up to, and you have to
have an interest in the subjects...Anyway, as to Mind's Eye.... a
fellow-friend of mine was from this Group... Chaz... was banned from
Mind's Eye and although they didn't ban me... I left their group ,
then and there... I have this "thing" about censorship.... despise
it...
Anyway. nice making your acquaintance, anytime that you want to
discuss any topic, I'd be glad to talk with you... I like politics a
lot myself, and we appear to have the same "leanings"..... let's say
NOT RIGHT WING.....
nominal9

[the taoist shaman]

what do u think of religion / god

[Lonnie Clay]

GOD knows no boundaries. GOD is limitlessly expanding. GOD's rate of expansion is constantly increasing miraculously due to the huge number of derivatives of velocity, acceleration, etc in GOD's rate of expansion. GOD has achieved victory! Religion on the other hand is a fool's game. If there is not a burst of pleasure at these statements, then I do not know what to say!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Serenity Smiles]

With Donald Trump and Charlie Sheen highlighting the media, I think I have
the right to question the validity of sanity. What is insane?? lmao.
Surely the insane are those who vote and watch and endorse such crap in the
first place. anyone "Politically right" would be disturbed at such mindless
behaviour of Donald Trump and the buying into audience of the US of A who
love insanity. I thought paying and laughing at imbeciles was supposed to
be a thing of the past?? Ignorance still prevails and if it is insane to
think that this world is run by morons where a birth certificate is of more
significance than the contents of the mind really proves my point. Insanity
is sanity, sanity is insanity. if life is like an air flight where the take
off and landing is all that is of significance then there is only the road
to nowhere. Everything we know is conceptualised, labelled cognitive
creation, of no more import than the paper that was created to mark it on.
If you are going to buy into someone else's creation does that not show your
own lack of cognitive ability?? So to not to buy in, is the sanest option
and to live for free scratching ones ass and giving the finger to foolish
ego achieves what. No stress, no contest, no winning, no losing, no
judgement. According to Buddha the ripest conditions for reaping
accumulative merit. Exactly what is "right employment" for a contemporary
Buddhist?? I cannot for the life of me buy into a planet such as this
endorsing ignorance, fear, hatred, attachment and prejudism.

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[Lonnie Clay]

Serenity Smiles : Be Calm! Be Serene! Contemplate the BEAUTY of Mother Nature! When you have become bored with contemplations such as that, then rejoin life's game with reinvigorated spirits. For life is but a stage upon which we play, as we are evolving toward perfection, in a race against time (for some) but in a spirit of companionship for all but a pathetic few who feel that domination of others is the route to success. THE whip will crack on a dominator as sure as THE weather!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

> > > > > > On Apr 13, 5:11 pm, the taoist shaman <brya...@gmail.com>

> > > > > > > > On Mar 30, 6:54 pm, the taoist shaman <brya...@gmail.com>

> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > how long before all the welth is held by a small group ,
> > > > > > > > > and what
> > > > > > > > > happens to the rest of us ? is there a way to stop the
> > > > > > > > > storm on the
> > > > > > > > > horizon , or is there no storm at all ?

[awori achoka]

What u do when u run out of ideas----

[Lonnie Clay]

Awori - "What u do when u run out of ideas----"

What I would do if I were like you and running out of new ideas would be to seek inspiration upon some network which was teeming with life, surfing through newsgroups and forums until you find inspiration and reinvigoration from someone else's cast-off thoughts...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[nominal9]

I was raised Catholic... loosely.... I've read a few sort or
"religious literary books".... Dante's Divine Commedy... Poems by
monks and such....but as to strict "church" religion, I"m fairly but
not expertly knowledgeable.... I am an "agnostic"... I don't know
about the "existence" of God... one way or the other... I can't go as
far as an Atheist because I am not certain that God DOES NOT exist...
but then, I can't go as far as a "theist" (?) or believer because I am
not sure that God DOES EXIST, either......Faith.... it's something
that I still question....

Pretty standard reply... I think....

Same goes for other religions or such views...
nominal9

> ...
>
> read more »

[Serenity Smiles]

GOD is still conceptualised thought only existent in form created from emptiness

--

[Serenity Smiles]

Dear Lonnie, Blessings and thanks for the kind words and thoughts, but it hardly has anything to do with the topic we are discussing, our current system or $.  The point being that everything evolves or has evolved with the exception to being how we award merit and credit.  Personally, I stated that my belief that money may have been good when Alexander the Great invented it but it does not work now,  is for myself endorsed throughout time and history and was curious to ask just how a contemporary planet could ever evolve both the nature of politics as well as merits and credits to balance itself towards a fairer greener existence with less ignorance and issues if it ever desired the change.

 

Love and prayers, 

[Lonnie Clay]

ACK ACK, YAKKITTY YAK, YAKKITTY YAK! Don't Come, BACK!

If You don't Come, then You'll BE Sorry!

Come ONE, Come ALL, The Big Tent is OPENED, The BIG EVENT is about to BEGIN!

Love IS, Never Having, To Say, You're Sorry!

Sometimes if You're Sorry enough, then you cry Tears of JOY, as YOU realize that IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE AN EVEN MORE SORRY ASS, than you already ARE!

Tears of JOY are cried at BIG EVENTs when the lion tamer's head comes out of the lion's mouth unscathed, as the lion roars!

Did anyone comprehend that skeleton of a three dimensional logic chain? Is there anyone out there with the GUTS to add flesh to the bare bones which I just gave? Did anybody even read this post? Who knows, Who cares? Ten minutes to construct it as a pre-breakfast exercise was a GOOD WORKOUT...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

> > > > > > On Apr 13, 5:11 pm, the taoist shaman <bry...@gmail.com>

> > > > > > > > On Mar 30, 6:54 pm, the taoist shaman <bry...@gmail.com>

> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > how long before all the welth is held by a small group ,
> > > > > > > > > and what
> > > > > > > > > happens to the rest of us ? is there a way to stop the
> > > > > > > > > storm on the
> > > > > > > > > horizon , or is there no storm at all ?

--
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[Serenity Smiles]

lol, take a chill pill Lonnie, deep breath, relax, dont buy in buy out.

[Serenity Smiles]

Praying that Mr. Trumps’ $ can be diverted from the tea party to the State of Alabama, prayers to the devastated of the South.

 

From: Lonnie Clay

Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 3:11 PM

[Lonnie Clay]

LOLOL LOLOL LOLOL - Elton John - The Piano Man

http://www.youtube.com/user/ClayLC2?feature=mhum#p/f/18/se9rfWucgeY

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

To post to this group, send email to epi...@googlegroups.com.

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[the taoist shaman]

lonnie thats freekin sweet , i really did get a burst of pleasure
reading that , if i write a book can i quote u on that?

[the taoist shaman]

lonni, god does not exist in formlessness ?

[the taoist shaman]

lonni it is impossible to read your mind to a tee but the- main theam-
( great song by P floyd ) seems obvious , i think ...

Lonnie Clay wrote:
> ACK ACK, YAKKITTY YAK, YAKKITTY YAK! Don't Come, BACK!

>TS. dont be a smart ass - dont attack - more likely a referance to coming back to god

> If You don't Come, then You'll BE Sorry!

>TS. if u dont come back to god u will be sorry

> Come ONE, Come ALL, The Big Tent is OPENED, The BIG EVENT is about to BEGIN!

>TS. the tent is love / god and is open to the public

> Love IS, Never Having, To Say, You're Sorry!

>TS. in the returning to god there is reberth / pureity , no more shame

> Sometimes if You're Sorry enough, then you cry Tears of JOY, as YOU realize
> that IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE AN EVEN MORE SORRY ASS, than you already ARE!

TS. in re berth your old self is that more sorry ass than u ,
a pleasureable thought

>
> Tears of JOY are cried at BIG EVENTs when the lion tamer's head comes out of
> the lion's mouth unscathed, as the lion roars!

TS. the lion is god and u and i are the lion taimer un harmed by
what once nearly destroyed , god roars in joy training the taimer

>
> Did anyone comprehend that skeleton of a three dimensional logic chain? Is
> there anyone out there with the GUTS to add flesh to the bare bones which I
> just gave? Did anybody even read this post? Who knows, Who cares? Ten
> minutes to construct it as a pre-breakfast exercise was a GOOD WORKOUT...
>
> Lonnie Courtney Clay
>

>DONT FORGET HUMILATY LONNIE

( )
(@\ /@)
" "
vVVVVv
vVVVVv

> On Saturday, April 30, 2011 1:16:40 AM UTC-7, Serenity Smiles wrote:
> >
> > Dear Lonnie, Blessings and thanks for the kind words and thoughts, but
> > it hardly has anything to do with the topic we are discussing, our current
> > system or $. The point being that everything evolves or has evolved with
> > the exception to being how we award merit and credit. Personally, I stated
> > that my belief that money may have been good when Alexander the Great
> > invented it but it does not work now, is for myself endorsed throughout
> > time and history and was curious to ask just how a contemporary planet could
> > ever evolve both the nature of politics as well as merits and credits to
> > balance itself towards a fairer greener existence with less ignorance and
> > issues if it ever desired the change.
> >
> > Love and prayers,
> >

> > *From:* Lonnie Clay
> > *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2011 10:47 AM
> > *To:* episte...@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [epistemology 11975] Re: our current system or $

[Serenity Smiles]

G.A.V.E. God, Allah, Vishnu, Emptiness gave to grave. Free from constraints
and empiric advances, humble with no projection of ego, we are "gave" until
the "r" of grave. Salutations of meritous joy to all you givers. Your
patience and acceptance is always our best adornments.

[the taoist shaman]

S.S. hello , do u know of any reliable web sights where i can explore
the fundamental roots of zen , hindo , shaman , tora , ect. ?

or nom 9 , or the other guy whos name i forget or who ever

[Serenity Smiles]

For Zen, the easiest on your list for me to suggest I would Start with
Amitabha or Amita or Amidha Buddha of the Purelands, very popular in
Mahayana and Zen. I am sure from here you can find more on what you are
seeking.

-----Original
Meshttp://buddhism.about.com/od/thetriyaka/ig/Five-Dhyani-Buddhas/Amitabha-Buddha.htm

sage-----
From: the taoist shaman

Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:08 AM
To: Epistemology
Subject: Re: [epistemology 11985] Re: our current system or $

[Serenity Smiles]

I asked my Geshe if the validation of the existence of the Higgs Bosun or
"God" particle came to fruition would it help to solve the essence of
suffering, NO! came the firm reply, the "Solution" is always the answer i.e
the formular not the result.

-----Original Message-----
From: the taoist shaman
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:00 AM
To: Epistemology

[Lonnie Clay]

GOD is omnipresent, immanently manifesting as anything and everything as GOD chooses. Furthermore, GOD's topological tree of manifestation is utterly beyond understanding by any awareness except GOD's own. GOD is not only stupendously stupefyingly parallel in GOD's manifestations, but also RECURSIVE, with GOD extending both up and down the TREE OF TREE OF..., acting upon GOD's predecessor and subsequent manifestations in a timely manner, so that GOD's foresight is infused with information from future versions of GOD, and also that GOD can plumb backwards into the depths of GOD's past iterative manifestations to obtain an ineffably utterly sharp snapshot in living color of any of GOD's past experiences, permitting GOD to RETROACTIVELY PREEMPT the occurrence of any situation which evolved unsatisfactorily according to GOD's OWN PLANNED DESIGNS...

One might well ask (understanding the above statement) "WHY IN GOD'S NAME?" is there so much strife turmoil anguish suffering unhappiness conflict etc etc etc upon MOTHER EARTH's sacred grounds? The answer is simple, and was presented long ago by William Shakespeare - "Life is but a STAGE..."...

BTW SS - ATTABOY ATTABOY!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Lonnie Clay]

https://sites.google.com/site/lonniecourtneyclay/home/blarney-part-2---prehistory

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[the taoist shaman]

lonnie have i appropriately added flesh to your bones as you put it ?

[the taoist shaman]

thank you ss

> https://sites.google.com/site/lonniecourtneyclay/home/blarney-part-2-...
>
> Lonnie Courtney Clay
>
>
>
>

[Lonnie Clay]

10-4*Y*42*Y*4-01

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Lonnie Clay]

YW*42*WY

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Monday, May 2, 2011 11:33:08 PM UTC-7, the taoist shaman wrote:

thank you ss

[Serenity Smiles]

Thanks Lonnie,  Indeed so God did create and approved Buddha to have allowed his existence and path and dharma to exist as tried and tested as it stands.  To the power of Om

A

True

Tested

And

Biologically

Originated

Yidam!!

 

Marvellous

 

Love and prayers

 

 

From: Lonnie Clay

Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:13 AM

To: episte...@googlegroups.com

[Serenity Smiles]

if you meant torma as in the empowerment of Vajrayogini practise I have
found this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgPoRYTAb6o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torma
for origination:

-----Original Message-----
From: Serenity Smiles
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:17 AM
To: episte...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [epistemology 11987] Re: our current system or $

For Zen, the easiest on your list for me to suggest I would Start with
Amitabha or Amita or Amidha Buddha of the Purelands, very popular in

Mahayana and Zen. I am sure from here you can find more on what you are and
f

[the taoist shaman]

happy birthday i think

> >https://sites.google.com/site/lonniecourtneyclay/home/blarney-part-2-...
>
> > > Lonnie Courtney Clay- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[the taoist shaman]

your welcom for to welcom you ?

[Lonnie Clay]

03-09-1956 6591-90-30

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:08:15 AM UTC-7, the taoist shaman wrote:

happy birthday   i think

[Lonnie Clay]

YESEY

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:08:46 AM UTC-7, the taoist shaman wrote:

your welcom for to welcom you ?

[Lonnie Clay]

GRACE GRACE GRACE UNTO SS UNTO GRACE GRACE GRACE