With everyone tired of reading about the spate of ENTS highbrow measuring projects, the esoteric interests of James and Larry are providing a real shot in the arm to our collective creativity. Of course, we can always count on Ed to be a fountain of ideas, but it hasn't always been clear to me who is interested in what. One subject that I would like to see us pursue is the bonding of an Ent to a particular site. For instance, my first visit to Cook Forest State Park let a forest genie out of the woods elixir bottle for me. I've been thinking about recapturing the feelings I had on my first visit and sharing them with my fellow and lady Ents. I'd love to be inside Russ Richardson's head as he lovelingly cruises the properties that he manages. I think we all recognize that forests are far more to Russ than an accumulation of board feet. How does Russ balance the necessary economic perspective with the spiritual one that I know he has. I'd like to be in Larry's head as he naviga tes a southern swamp full of alligators and cottonmouths. There's a magic to the southern Spanish moss-draped swamps. Who better to share experiences with us than Larry. I could cast my imagining to include Beth, Lin, and other lady Ents. How do they see their favorite woodlands?
To be sure the numeric view of forests is quintessentially ENTS, but so should be our purely qualitative experiences. They are supposed to be. I firmly believe that sacred spaces can only be understood and fully enjoyed through meditations, and perhaps legends and myths. Some of us have to consciously suspend our academic or professional views of forests or all we see is a collection of surface features and their physical interactions - rather like knowing our grandmothers only as collections of body parts working together in purely physical ways.
I have no intention of abandoning or even reducing my personal effort along scientific lines. The book on dendromorphometry will bring together the collective numerical expertise of ENTS as a seminal work. The book will incorporate algebra, plane and solid geometry, analytic geometry, and differential and integral calculus. It will be truly a heavyweight accomplishment for us, but we need to think about an equally offsetting effort along aesthetic and spiritual lines. Only by achieving such a balance will ENTS realize its true potential.
I fondly recall woodland experiences with the late Dr. Michael Perlman that kindled in me feelings of the mystical. Both Mike and I were college teachers and full of exhuberance when in the woods. Mike was a woodland elf. Both of us let it all out when alone. However, I was more reserved than Mike when in the company of others. He was entirely uninhibited, the most unabashed tree hugger ever knew. Mike's wonderful, complex book "The Power of Trees - A Reforesting of the Soul" is an important work exploring the mystical connection between humans and trees.
I will soon dive into my former Indian wife's extensive library. There are more than 400 volumes. It is a daunting task, but one with the promise of great rewards. I have a feeling that ENTS will soar to new heights in the coming year. Now, to do my part, all I need to do is get ride of these infernal shingles.
Some of us ENTS I feel have bonded to certain places. You & Ed to Cook
Forest. Larry to the southern swamps & Will to Cataloochee. Myself, I
feel closest to the Graveyard Fields/Shining Rock Wilderness area of
Pisgah National Forest & like Master Will, Cataloochee ( GSMNP ). Many
of us have our " enchanted " place. I am sure of that.
I look forward to your delving into Jani's books. It would be a
fitting tribute to her, one that she probably would have approved of.
I would have loved to have been around at the time she was still here.
I bet corresponding with her would have been a treat. I am sure the
books have much to offer. More Celtic stuff will be seen from me.
Together we can " sprout " a new limb on the ENTS tree!
Hey, I have no problem with measuring projects. They in their own
right tell much about a forest. In that I hope to get more involved
while You, Will, Larry, Jess, BVP & Ed, among other ENTS, continue to
lead the way.
Does ENTS ever work any more with Robert Messick? I think he was a
member of the SAFC at one time. Will has had some dealings with him
before. It was reading about some of his finds that got my interest
peaked in studying old growth about 4 years ago, before I started "
lurking " in on ENTS.
> With everyone tired of reading about the spate of ENTS highbrow measuring projects, the esoteric interests of James and Larry are providing a real shot in the arm to our collective creativity. Of course, we can always count on Ed to be a fountain of ideas, but it hasn't always been clear to me who is interested in what. One subject that I would like to see us pursue is the bonding of an Ent to a particular site. For instance, my first visit to Cook Forest State Park let a forest genie out of the woods elixir bottle for me. I've been thinking about recapturing the feelings I had on my first visit and sharing them with my fellow and lady Ents. I'd love to be inside Russ Richardson's head as he lovelingly cruises the properties that he manages. I think we all recognize that forests are far more to Russ than an accumulation of board feet. How does Russ balance the necessary economic perspective with the spiritual one that I know he has. I'd like to be in Larry's head as he naviga
> tes a southern swamp full of alligators and cottonmouths. There's a magic to the southern Spanish moss-draped swamps. Who better to share experiences with us than Larry. I could cast my imagining to include Beth, Lin, and other lady Ents. How do they see their favorite woodlands?
> To be sure the numeric view of forests is quintessentially ENTS, but so should be our purely qualitative experiences. They are supposed to be. I firmly believe that sacred spaces can only be understood and fully enjoyed through meditations, and perhaps legends and myths. Some of us have to consciously suspend our academic or professional views of forests or all we see is a collection of surface features and their physical interactions - rather like knowing our grandmothers only as collections of body parts working together in purely physical ways.
> I have no intention of abandoning or even reducing my personal effort along scientific lines. The book on dendromorphometry will bring together the collective numerical expertise of ENTS as a seminal work. The book will incorporate algebra, plane and solid geometry, analytic geometry, and differential and integral calculus. It will be truly a heavyweight accomplishment for us, but we need to think about an equally offsetting effort along aesthetic and spiritual lines. Only by achieving such a balance will ENTS realize its true potential.
> I fondly recall woodland experiences with the late Dr. Michael Perlman that kindled in me feelings of the mystical. Both Mike and I were college teachers and full of exhuberance when in the woods. Mike was a woodland elf. Both of us let it all out when alone. However, I was more reserved than Mike when in the company of others. He was entirely uninhibited, the most unabashed tree hugger ever knew. Mike's wonderful, complex book "The Power of Trees - A Reforesting of the Soul" is an important work exploring the mystical connection between humans and trees.
> I will soon dive into my former Indian wife's extensive library. There are more than 400 volumes. It is a daunting task, but one with the promise of great rewards. I have a feeling that ENTS will soar to new heights in the coming year. Now, to do my part, all I need to do is get ride of these infernal shingles.
I am proud to proclaim Rob Messick as one of my original disciples, although he can claim me as one of his now. In 1992, I helped train Rob to recognize old growth forest characteristics. If I recall, the area we chose was the Cosby area. Outside a group of avant garde scientists (guess who was one), in those days there were only a handful of us who could recognize old growth characteristics with relative confidence. In the South, Bob Zahner was one. Will was another. In the Northeast I was a third. The field was pretty darn thin. In terms of the discovery of acreage, Rob went on to smoke me. Rob was part of the original ENTS list, but his precarious financial situation caused him to periodically disappear of the radar screen.
I have often thought about writing a book about the eastern old growth forest discovery movement of the late 1980s and 1990s. Now that I am retired and settled with the second great love of my life, I just may do that. The book would include a about a dozen scientists as well as another dozen non-scientist activists. We've all come a long way. The story is well worth telling, but I would have to be careful in telling it not to allow myself to cross over into the negative zone. During that period, we were usually battling government resource managers who refused to acknowledge that there might be a scape of knowledge about forests that they didn't know. As it turned out there was quite a bit they didn't know and that story would be at least implicit in the story of the individuals. It is hard to find balance in telling the full story of the discoveries of eastern old growth without being pretty judgemental. I remember when a regional manager of the Forest Service allowed as to how there might be 150 acres of old growth in Linville Gorge. The Green Mountain NF didn't think it had any old growth. Yet it hadn't always been that way in the Forest Service. Rob Messick knows that story best of all of us and I hope will one day tell it. Foresters like William Ashe were some of the best environmentalist we have ever had.
-------------- Original message -------------- From: James Parton <hawthorn_...@yahoo.com>
> Bob,
> Some of us ENTS I feel have bonded to certain places. You & Ed to Cook > Forest. Larry to the southern swamps & Will to Cataloochee. Myself, I > feel closest to the Graveyard Fields/Shining Rock Wilderness area of > Pisgah National Forest & like Master Will, Cataloochee ( GSMNP ). Many > of us have our " enchanted " place. I am sure of that.
> I look forward to your delving into Jani's books. It would be a > fitting tribute to her, one that she probably would have approved of. > I would have loved to have been around at the time she was still here. > I bet corresponding with her would have been a treat. I am sure the > books have much to offer. More Celtic stuff will be seen from me. > Together we can " sprout " a new limb on the ENTS tree!
> Hey, I have no problem with measuring projects. They in their own > right tell much about a forest. In that I hope to get more involved > while You, Will, Larry, Jess, BVP & Ed, among other ENTS, continue to > lead the way.
> Does ENTS ever work any more with Robert Messick? I think he was a > member of the SAFC at one time. Will has had some dealings with him > before. It was reading about some of his finds that got my interest > peaked in studying old growth about 4 years ago, before I started " > lurking " in on ENTS.
> James Parton
> On Dec 22, 6:57 pm, dbhg...@comcast.net wrote: > > ENTS,
> > With everyone tired of reading about the spate of ENTS highbrow > measuring projects, the esoteric interests of James and Larry are providing a > real shot in the arm to our collective creativity. Of course, we can always > count on Ed to be a fountain of ideas, but it hasn't always been clear to me who > is interested in what. One subject that I would like to see us pursue is the > bonding of an Ent to a particular site. For instance, my first visit to Cook > Forest State Park let a forest genie out of the woods elixir bottle for me. I've > been thinking about recapturing the feelings I had on my first visit and sharing > them with my fellow and lady Ents. I'd love to be inside Russ Richardson's head > as he lovelingly cruises the properties that he manages. I think we all > recognize that forests are far more to Russ than an accumulation of board feet. > How does Russ balance the necessary economic perspective with the spiritual one > that I know he has. I'd like to be in Larry's head as he naviga > > tes a southern swamp full of alligators and cottonmouths. There's a magic to > the southern Spanish moss-draped swamps. Who better to share experiences with us > than Larry. I could cast my imagining to include Beth, Lin, and other lady Ents. > How do they see their favorite woodlands?
> > To be sure the numeric view of forests is quintessentially ENTS, but so > should be our purely qualitative experiences. They are supposed to be. I firmly > believe that sacred spaces can only be understood and fully enjoyed through > meditations, and perhaps legends and myths. Some of us have to consciously > suspend our academic or professional views of forests or all we see is a > collection of surface features and their physical interactions - rather like > knowing our grandmothers only as collections of body parts working together in > purely physical ways.
> > I have no intention of abandoning or even reducing my personal effort > along scientific lines. The book on dendromorphometry will bring together the > collective numerical expertise of ENTS as a seminal work. The book will > incorporate algebra, plane and solid geometry, analytic geometry, and > differential and integral calculus. It will be truly a heavyweight > accomplishment for us, but we need to think about an equally offsetting effort > along aesthetic and spiritual lines. Only by achieving such a balance will ENTS > realize its true potential.
> > I fondly recall woodland experiences with the late Dr. Michael Perlman > that kindled in me feelings of the mystical. Both Mike and I were college > teachers and full of exhuberance when in the woods. Mike was a woodland elf. > Both of us let it all out when alone. However, I was more reserved than Mike > when in the company of others. He was entirely uninhibited, the most unabashed > tree hugger ever knew. Mike's wonderful, complex book "The Power of Trees - A > Reforesting of the Soul" is an important work exploring the mystical connection > between humans and trees.
> > I will soon dive into my former Indian wife's extensive library. There > are more than 400 volumes. It is a daunting task, but one with the promise of > great rewards. I have a feeling that ENTS will soar to new heights in the coming > year. Now, to do my part, all I need to do is get ride of these infernal > shingles.
> I am proud to proclaim Rob Messick as one of my original disciples, although he can claim me as one of his now. In 1992, I helped train Rob to recognize old growth forest characteristics. If I recall, the area we chose was the Cosby area. Outside a group of avant garde scientists (guess who was one), in those days there were only a handful of us who could recognize old growth characteristics with relative confidence. In the South, Bob Zahner was one. Will was another. In the Northeast I was a third. The field was pretty darn thin. In terms of the discovery of acreage, Rob went on to smoke me. Rob was part of the original ENTS list, but his precarious financial situation caused him to periodically disappear of the radar screen.
> I have often thought about writing a book about the eastern old growth forest discovery movement of the late 1980s and 1990s. Now that I am retired and settled with the second great love of my life, I just may do that. The book would include a about a dozen scientists as well as another dozen non-scientist activists. We've all come a long way. The story is well worth telling, but I would have to be careful in telling it not to allow myself to cross over into the negative zone. During that period, we were usually battling government resource managers who refused to acknowledge that there might be a scape of knowledge about forests that they didn't know. As it turned out there was quite a bit they didn't know and that story would be at least implicit in the story of the individuals.
> It is hard to find balance in telling the full story of the discoveries of eastern old growth without being pretty judgemental. I remember when a regional manager of the Forest Service allowed as to how there might be 150 acres of old growth in Linville Gorge. The Green Mountain NF didn't think it had any old growth. Yet it hadn't always been that way in the Forest Service. Rob Messick knows that story best of all of us and I hope will one day tell it. Foresters like William Ashe were some of the best environmentalist we have ever had.
> Bob
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: James Parton <hawthorn_...@yahoo.com>
> > Bob,
> > Some of us ENTS I feel have bonded to certain places. You & Ed to Cook
> > Forest. Larry to the southern swamps & Will to Cataloochee. Myself, I
> > feel closest to the Graveyard Fields/Shining Rock Wilderness area of
> > Pisgah National Forest & like Master Will, Cataloochee ( GSMNP ). Many
> > of us have our " enchanted " place. I am sure of that.
> > I look forward to your delving into Jani's books. It would be a
> > fitting tribute to her, one that she probably would have approved of.
> > I would have loved to have been around at the time she was still here.
> > I bet corresponding with her would have been a treat. I am sure the
> > books have much to offer. More Celtic stuff will be seen from me.
> > Together we can " sprout " a new limb on the ENTS tree!
> > Hey, I have no problem with measuring projects. They in their own
> > right tell much about a forest. In that I hope to get more involved
> > while You, Will, Larry, Jess, BVP & Ed, among other ENTS, continue to
> > lead the way.
> > Does ENTS ever work any more with Robert Messick? I think he was a
> > member of the SAFC at one time. Will has had some dealings with him
> > before. It was reading about some of his finds that got my interest
> > peaked in studying old growth about 4 years ago, before I started "
> > lurking " in on ENTS.
> > James Parton
> > On Dec 22, 6:57 pm, dbhg...@comcast.net wrote:
> > > ENTS,
> > > With everyone tired of reading about the spate of ENTS highbrow
> > measuring projects, the esoteric interests of James and Larry are providing a
> > real shot in the arm to our collective creativity. Of course, we can always
> > count on Ed to be a fountain of ideas, but it hasn't always been clear to me who
> > is interested in what. One subject that I would like to see us pursue is the
> > bonding of an Ent to a particular site. For instance, my first visit to Cook
> > Forest State Park let a forest genie out of the woods elixir bottle for me. I've
> > been thinking about recapturing the feelings I had on my first visit and sharing
> > them with my fellow and lady Ents. I'd love to be inside Russ Richardson's head
> > as he lovelingly cruises the properties that he manages. I think we all
> > recognize that forests are far more to Russ than an accumulation of board feet.
> > How does Russ balance the necessary economic perspective with the spiritual one
> > that I know he has. I'd like to be in Larry's head as he naviga
> > > tes a southern swamp full of alligators and cottonmouths. There's a magic to
> > the southern Spanish moss-draped swamps. Who better to share experiences with us
> > than Larry. I could cast my imagining to include Beth, Lin, and other lady Ents.
> > How do they see their favorite woodlands?
> > > To be sure the numeric view of forests is quintessentially ENTS, but so
> > should be our purely qualitative experiences. They are supposed to be. I firmly
> > believe that sacred spaces can only be understood and fully enjoyed through
> > meditations, and perhaps legends and myths. Some of us have to consciously
> > suspend our academic or professional views of forests or all we see is a
> > collection of surface features and their physical interactions - rather like
> > knowing our grandmothers only as collections of body parts working together in
> > purely physical ways.
> > > I have no intention of abandoning or even reducing my personal effort
> > along scientific lines. The book on dendromorphometry will bring together the
> > collective numerical expertise of ENTS as a seminal work. The book will
> > incorporate algebra, plane and solid geometry, analytic geometry, and
> > differential and integral calculus. It will be truly a heavyweight
> > accomplishment for us, but we need to think about an equally offsetting effort
> > along aesthetic and spiritual lines. Only by achieving such a balance will ENTS
> > realize its true potential.
> > > I fondly recall woodland experiences with the late Dr. Michael Perlman
> > that kindled in me feelings of the mystical. Both Mike and I were college
> > teachers and full of exhuberance when in the woods. Mike was a woodland elf.
> > Both of us let it all out when alone. However, I was more reserved than Mike
> > when in the company of others. He was entirely uninhibited, the most unabashed
> > tree hugger ever knew. Mike's wonderful, complex book "The Power of Trees - A
> > Reforesting of the Soul" is an important work exploring the mystical connection
> > between humans and trees.
> > > I will soon dive into my former Indian wife's extensive library. There
> > are more than 400 volumes. It is a daunting task, but one with the promise of
> > great rewards. I have a feeling that ENTS will soar to new heights in the coming
> > year. Now, to do my part, all I need to do is get ride of these infernal
> > shingles.
> > I am proud to proclaim Rob Messick as one of my original disciples, although he can claim me as one of his now. In 1992, I helped train Rob to recognize old growth forest characteristics. If I recall, the area we chose was the Cosby area. Outside a group of avant garde scientists (guess who was one), in those days there were only a handful of us who could recognize old growth characteristics with relative confidence. In the South, Bob Zahner was one. Will was another. In the Northeast I was a third. The field was pretty darn thin. In terms of the discovery of acreage, Rob went on to smoke me. Rob was part of the original ENTS list, but his precarious financial situation caused him to periodically disappear of the radar screen.
> > I have often thought about writing a book about the eastern old growth forest discovery movement of the late 1980s and 1990s. Now that I am retired and settled with the second great love of my life, I just may do that. The book would include a about a dozen scientists as well as another dozen non-scientist activists. We've all come a long way. The story is well worth telling, but I would have to be careful in telling it not to allow myself to cross over into the negative zone. During that period, we were usually battling government resource managers who refused to acknowledge that there might be a scape of knowledge about forests that they didn't know. As it turned out there was quite a bit they didn't know and that story would be at least implicit in the story of the individuals.
> > It is hard to find balance in telling the full story of the discoveries of eastern old growth without being pretty judgemental. I remember when a regional manager of the Forest Service allowed as to how there might be 150 acres of old growth in Linville Gorge. The Green Mountain NF didn't think it had any old growth. Yet it hadn't always been that way in the Forest Service. Rob Messick knows that story best of all of us and I hope will one day tell it. Foresters like William Ashe were some of the best environmentalist we have ever had.
> > Bob
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: James Parton <hawthorn_...@yahoo.com>
> > > Bob,
> > > Some of us ENTS I feel have bonded to certain places. You & Ed to Cook
> > > Forest. Larry to the southern swamps & Will to Cataloochee. Myself, I
> > > feel closest to the Graveyard Fields/Shining Rock Wilderness area of
> > > Pisgah National Forest & like Master Will, Cataloochee ( GSMNP ). Many
> > > of us have our " enchanted " place. I am sure of that.
> > > I look forward to your delving into Jani's books. It would be a
> > > fitting tribute to her, one that she probably would have approved of.
> > > I would have loved to have been around at the time she was still here.
> > > I bet corresponding with her would have been a treat. I am sure the
> > > books have much to offer. More Celtic stuff will be seen from me.
> > > Together we can " sprout " a new limb on the ENTS tree!
> > > Hey, I have no problem with measuring projects. They in their own
> > > right tell much about a forest. In that I hope to get more involved
> > > while You, Will, Larry, Jess, BVP & Ed, among other ENTS, continue to
> > > lead the way.
> > > Does ENTS ever work any more with Robert Messick? I think he was a
> > > member of the SAFC at one time. Will has had some dealings with him
> > > before. It was reading about some of his finds that got my interest
> > > peaked in studying old growth about 4 years ago, before I started "
> > > lurking " in on ENTS.
> > > James Parton
> > > On Dec 22, 6:57 pm, dbhg...@comcast.net wrote:
> > > > ENTS,
> > > > With everyone tired of reading about the spate of ENTS highbrow
> > > measuring projects, the esoteric interests of James and Larry are providing a
> > > real shot in the arm to our collective creativity. Of course, we can always
> > > count on Ed to be a fountain of ideas, but it hasn't always been clear to me who
> > > is interested in what. One subject that I would like to see us pursue is the
> > > bonding of an Ent to a particular site. For instance, my first visit to Cook
> > > Forest State Park let a forest genie out of the woods elixir bottle for me. I've
> > > been thinking about recapturing the feelings I had on my first visit and sharing
> > > them with my fellow and lady Ents. I'd love to be inside Russ Richardson's head
> > > as he lovelingly cruises the properties that he manages. I think we all
> > > recognize that forests are far more to Russ than an accumulation of board feet.
> > > How does Russ balance the necessary economic perspective with the spiritual one
> > > that I know he has. I'd like to be in Larry's head as he naviga
> > > > tes a southern swamp full of alligators and cottonmouths. There's a magic to
> > > the southern Spanish moss-draped swamps. Who better to share experiences with us
> > > than Larry. I could cast my imagining to include Beth, Lin, and other lady Ents.
> > > How do they see their favorite woodlands?
> > > > To be sure the numeric view of forests is quintessentially ENTS, but so
> > > should be our purely qualitative experiences. They are supposed to be. I firmly
> > > believe that sacred spaces can only be understood and fully enjoyed through
> > > meditations, and perhaps legends and myths. Some of us have to consciously
> > > suspend our academic or professional views of forests or all we see is a
> > > collection of surface features and their physical interactions - rather like
> > > knowing our grandmothers only as collections of body parts working together in
> > > purely physical ways.
> > > > I have no intention of abandoning or even reducing my personal effort
> > > along scientific lines. The book on dendromorphometry will bring together the
> > > collective numerical expertise of ENTS as a seminal work. The book will
> > > incorporate algebra, plane and solid geometry, analytic geometry, and
> > > differential and integral calculus. It will be truly a heavyweight
> > > accomplishment for us, but we need to think about an equally offsetting effort
> > > along aesthetic and spiritual lines. Only by achieving such a balance will ENTS
> > > realize its true potential.
> > > > I fondly recall woodland experiences with the late Dr. Michael Perlman
> > > that kindled in me feelings of the mystical. Both Mike and I were college
> > > teachers and full of exhuberance when in the woods. Mike was a woodland elf.
> > > Both of us let it all out when alone. However, I was more reserved than Mike
> > > when in the company of others. He was entirely uninhibited, the most unabashed
> > > tree hugger ever knew. Mike's wonderful, complex book "The Power of Trees - A
> > > Reforesting of the Soul" is an important work exploring the mystical connection
> > > between humans and trees.
> > > > I will soon dive into my former Indian wife's extensive library. There
> > > are more than 400 volumes. It is a daunting task, but one with the promise of
> > > great rewards. I have a feeling that ENTS will soar to new heights in the coming
> > > year. Now, to do my part, all I need to do is get ride of these infernal
> > > shingles.
I do think however, that standing up for and protecting public lands is a postive, not negative measure. Unfortunately industry hooplah, and dubious science and studies, are being put forth by A FEW foresters. This is affecting policy on our public lands.
We need ALL the environmental groups to come forth NOW, and stop falling for all the green certification and "biodiversity" rhetoric thats being presented. Elisa's group has been VERY good about looking at this hard. Im speaking however, of all the rest. We are looking for long term assurance that our park and others are safe, and I don't see that happening with it under green certification.
I think any change to save them is VERY positive. ENTS has provided real and accurate science and that has been a major contribution.
We have spoken with many foresters, including some with DCR, that do not believe in false scenarios, especially those that have been put forth, to convince the public to harvest lands. This is being cheerlead by very few. In the process, this is being discovered, and DCR and DFW are looking bad. You can be assured, leadership has been shown that this is the case, and is listening, right to the top of the state here. That is one big change from the previous administrations. They have indicated that they see whats happening, and will at least listen. A refreshing change. However, the cheerleaders look very convincing as you can see....
Since headway has been made, I consider this ALL very positive. THANKS ENTS!
Bob, I truly hope you will write that book. It would be very informative for all of us who already value Old Growth, and a great awakening for others. Elisa
> I am proud to proclaim Rob Messick as one of my original > disciples, although he can claim me as one of his now. In 1992, I > helped train Rob to recognize old growth forest characteristics. If I > recall, the area we chose was the Cosby area. Outside a group of avant > garde scientists (guess who was one), in those days there were only a > handful of us who could recognize old growth characteristics with > relative confidence. In the South, Bob Zahner was one. Will was > another. In the Northeast I was a third. The field was pretty darn > thin. In terms of the discovery of acreage, Rob went on to smoke me. > Rob was part of the original ENTS list, but his precarious financial > situation caused him to periodically disappear of the radar screen.
> I have often thought about writing a book about the eastern old > growth forest discovery movement of the late 1980s and 1990s. Now that > I am retired and settled with the second great love of my life, I just > may do that. The book would include a about a dozen scientists as well > as another dozen non-scientist activists. We've all come a long way. > The story is well worth telling, but I would have to be careful in > telling it not to allow myself to cross over into the negative zone. > During that period, we were usually battling government resource > managers who refused to acknowledge that there might be a scape of > knowledge about forests that they didn't know. As it turned out there > was quite a bit they didn't know and that story would be at least > implicit in the story of the individuals. > It is hard to find balance in telling the full story of the > discoveries of eastern old growth without being pretty judgemental. I > remember when a regional manager of the Forest Service allowed as to > how there might be 150 acres of old growth in Linville Gorge. The > Green Mountain NF didn't think it had any old growth. Yet it hadn't > always been that way in the Forest Service. Rob Messick knows that > story best of all of us and I hope will one day tell it. Foresters > like William Ashe were some of the best environmentalist we have ever > had.
> Bob
> -------------- Original message -------------- > From: James Parton <hawthorn_...@yahoo.com>
> > Bob,
> > Some of us ENTS I feel have bonded to certain places. You & Ed > to Cook > > Forest. Larry to the southern swamps & Will to Cataloochee. > Myself, I > > feel closest to the Graveyard Fields/Shining Rock Wilderness > area of > > Pisgah National Forest & like Master Will, Cataloochee ( GSMNP > ). Many > > of us have our " enchanted " place. I am sure of that.
> > I look forward to your delving into Jani's books. It would be a > > fitting tribute to her, one that she probably would have > approved of. > > I would have loved to have been around at the time she was still > here. > > I bet corresponding with her would have been a treat. I am sure the > > books have much to offer. More Celtic stuff ! will be seen from me. > > Together we can " sprout " a new limb on the ENTS tree!
> > Hey, I have no problem with measuring projects. They in their own > > right tell much about a forest. In that I hope to get more involved > > while You, Will, Larry, Jess, BVP & Ed, among other ENTS, > continue to > > lead the way.
> > Does ENTS ever work any more with Robert Messick? I think he was a > > member of the SAFC at one time. Will has had some dealings with him > > before. It was reading about some of his finds that got my interest > > peaked in studying old growth about 4 years ago, before I started " > > lurking " in on ENTS.
> > James Parton
> > On Dec 22, 6:57 pm, dbhg...@comcast.net wrote: > > > ENTS,
> > > With everyone tired of reading about the spate of ENTS highbrow > > measuring projects, the esoteric interests of James and Larry > are providing a ! > > ; real shot in the arm to our collective creativity. Of course, > we can always > > count on Ed to be a fountain of ideas, but it hasn't always been > clear to me who > > is interested in what. One subject that I would like to see us > pursue is the > > bonding of an Ent to a particular site. For instance, my first > visit to Cook > > Forest State Park let a forest genie out of the woods elixir > bottle for me. I've > > been thinking about recapturing the feelings I had on my first > visit and sharing > > them with my fellow and lady Ents. I'd love to be inside Russ > Richardson's head > > as he lovelingly cruises the properties that he manages. I think > we all > > recognize that forests are far more to Russ than an accumulation > of board feet. > > How does Russ balance the necessary economic perspective with > the spiritual one > > that I know he has. I'd like to be in Larry's head as he naviga > > > tes a southern swamp full of allig! ators a nd cottonmouths. > There's a magic to > > the southern Spanish moss-draped swamps. Who better to share > experiences with us > > than Larry. I could cast my imagining to include Beth, Lin, and > other lady Ents. > > How do they see their favorite woodlands?
> > > To be sure the numeric view of forests is quintessentially > ENTS, but so > > should be our purely qualitative experiences. They are supposed > to be. I firmly > > believe that sacred spaces can only be understood and fully > enjoyed through > > meditations, and perhaps legends and myths. Some of us have to > consciously > > suspend our academic or professional views of forests or all we > see is a > > collection of surface features and their physical interactions - > rather like > > knowing our grandmothers only as collections of body parts > working together in > > purely physical ways.
> > > I have no intention of abandoning or even reducin! g my pe > rsonal effort > > along scientific lines. The book on dendromorphometry will bring > together the > > collective numerical expertise of ENTS as a seminal work. The > book will > > incorporate algebra, plane and solid geometry, analytic > geometry, and > > differential and integral calculus. It will be truly a heavyweight > > accomplishment for us, but we need to think about an equally > offsetting effort > > along aesthetic and spiritual lines. Only by achieving such a > balance will ENTS > > realize its true potential.
> > > I fondly recall woodland experiences with the late Dr. Michael > Perlman > > that kindled in me feelings of the mystical. Both Mike and I > were college > > teachers and full of exhuberance when in the woods. Mike was a > woodland elf. > > Both of us let it all out when alone. However, I was more > reserved than Mike > > when in the company of others. He was entirely uninhibited, the > most unabas! hed > > tree hugger ever knew. Mike's wonderful, complex book "The Power > of Trees - A > > Reforesting of the Soul" is an important work exploring the > mystical connection > > between humans and trees.
> > > I will soon dive into my former Indian wife's extensive > library. There > > are more than 400 volumes. It is a daunting task, but one with > the promise of > > great rewards. I have a feeling that ENTS will soar to new > heights in the coming > > year. Now, to do my part, all I need to do is get ride of these > infernal > > shingles.
> With everyone tired of reading about the spate of ENTS highbrow > measuring projects, the esoteric interests of James and Larry are > providing a real shot in the arm to our collective creativity. Of > course, we can always count on Ed to be a fountain of ideas, but it > hasn't always been clear to me who is interested in what. One > subject that I would like to see us pursue is the bonding of an Ent > to a particular site. For instance, my first visit to Cook Forest > State Park let a forest genie out of the woods elixir bottle for me. > I've been thinking about recapturing the feelings I had on my first > visit and sharing them with my fellow and lady Ents. I'd love to be > inside Russ Richardson's head as he lovelingly cruises the > properties that he manages. I think we all recognize that forests > are far more to Russ than an accumulation of board feet. How does > Russ balance the necessary economic perspective with the spiritual > one that I know he has. I'd like to be in Larry's head as he naviga > tes a southern swamp full of alligators and cottonmouths. There's a magic > to the southern Spanish moss-draped swamps. Who better to share > experiences with us than Larry. I could cast my imagining to include Beth, > Lin, and other lady Ents. How do they see their favorite woodlands?
> To be sure the numeric view of forests is quintessentially ENTS, but > so should be our purely qualitative experiences. They are supposed > to be. I firmly believe that sacred spaces can only be understood > and fully enjoyed through meditations, and perhaps legends and > myths. Some of us have to consciously suspend our academic or > professional views of forests or all we see is a collection of > surface features and their physical interactions - rather like > knowing our grandmothers only as collections of body parts working > together in purely physical ways.
> I have no intention of abandoning or even reducing my personal > effort along scientific lines. The book on dendromorphometry will > bring together the collective numerical expertise of ENTS as a > seminal work. The book will incorporate algebra, plane and solid > geometry, analytic geometry, and differential and integral > calculus. It will be truly a heavyweight accomplishment for us, but > we need to think about an equally offsetting effort along aesthetic > and spiritual lines. Only by achieving such a balance will ENTS > realize its true potential.
> I fondly recall woodland experiences with the late Dr. Michael > Perlman that kindled in me feelings of the mystical. Both Mike and I > were college teachers and full of exhuberance when in the woods. Mike > was a woodland elf. Both of us let it all out when alone. However, I > was more reserved than Mike when in the company of others. He was > entirely uninhibited, the most unabashed tree hugger ever knew. > Mike's wonderful, complex book "The Power of Trees - A Reforesting of > the Soul" is an important work exploring the mystical connection > between humans and trees.
> I will soon dive into my former Indian wife's extensive library. > There are more than 400 volumes. It is a daunting task, but one with > the promise of great rewards. I have a feeling that ENTS will soar > to new heights in the coming year. Now, to do my part, all I need to > do is get ride of these infernal shingles.
