> > Visible splits in the visible church are actually a healthy thing as they > > prevent the religio-political tendency going too far. (Without trying to > > change the subject I think the history of the Roman Catholic organisation > > stands as witness that.)
> Well you can't even bring yourself to say Roman Catholic Church. It's > the 'Roman Catholic organisation' is it. That gives the measure of you > my > friend. Ok, your opinion, now give us a history lesson and hopefully you > won't forget what you were talking about this time.
> It's a worldwide organisation that is in part a religious 'church' and in > part a political institution.
> It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the world of
Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? ..........................Get real! MATTHEW 16: 17-19
> > Visible splits in the visible church are actually a healthy thing as they > > prevent the religio-political tendency going too far. (Without trying to > > change the subject I think the history of the Roman Catholic organisation > > stands as witness that.)
> Well you can't even bring yourself to say Roman Catholic Church. It's > the 'Roman Catholic organisation' is it. That gives the measure of you > my > friend. Ok, your opinion, now give us a history lesson and hopefully you > won't forget what you were talking about this time.
> It's a worldwide organisation that is in part a religious 'church' and in > part a political institution.
> It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the world
of Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? ..........................Get real! MATTHEW 16: 17-19 -------
Are you disagreeing that it is in part religious and in part political? Remember the Vatican is a state that issues it's own passports and has a seat at the UN. Yet Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world".
> > > Roman Catholics and Anglo-Catholics > > > do not pray TO the Saints, we ask for intercessionary prayers from them. > > > That is, we ask for Mary and other Saints to pray WITH us on our behalf.
> > How do you ask them?
> The point is, the Creed says we believe in 'the communion of saints' > (Apostle's Creed), and as we believe the departed Saints are not 'gone' but > alive with Christ, then there's no reason why we should not ask their > prayers to be added to ours, just like asking living Christians to pray with > us and for us. Petitioning the Saints to intercede for us, during our > prayers, is not the same thing as worshipping them in place of God, which > would indeed be idolatrous.
I assumed the 'communion of saints' meant living believers, not certain dead ones! Praying to dead believers to ask them to pray for you is nothing like asking living believers to pray for you. I don't think your interpretation of the 'communion of saints' would have been any creed of the original apostles!
> > > > Roman Catholics and Anglo-Catholics > > > > do not pray TO the Saints, we ask for intercessionary prayers from > them. > > > > That is, we ask for Mary and other Saints to pray WITH us on our > behalf.
> > > How do you ask them?
> > The point is, the Creed says we believe in 'the communion of saints' > > (Apostle's Creed), and as we believe the departed Saints are not 'gone' > but > > alive with Christ, then there's no reason why we should not ask their > > prayers to be added to ours, just like asking living Christians to pray > with > > us and for us. Petitioning the Saints to intercede for us, during our > > prayers, is not the same thing as worshipping them in place of God, which > > would indeed be idolatrous.
> I assumed the 'communion of saints' meant living believers, not certain dead > ones! Praying to dead believers to ask them to pray for you is nothing like > asking living believers to pray for you. > I don't think your interpretation of the 'communion of saints' would have > been any creed of the original apostles!
Hopefully, you and I can agree to differ on this one, whilst still acknowledging each other as Christians... ;-)
"Jim Docherty" <Jim.Doche...@btinternet.com> wrote in message > It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the world of
Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? ..........................Get real! MATTHEW 16: 17-19
The Church of Christ has certainly survived 2,000 years, but the RCC has made sure it is not a part of it.
The latest disgraceful blasphemy your Christ dishonouring Pontiff has committed, [he dishonours Christ already by wearing a covering on his head when praying, and that in public] was to kneel down and recently worship the idol statue of 'Mary'. and attempt to pass his prayers through her. Meanwhile Jim check out all the other 'wicked acts of sin' your pompous Pontif is commiting.
Matt 23:8-10 (KJV)."And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
1 COR 11:4 (KJV) "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. "
Rev 17:5 (TLB) "A mysterious caption was written on her forehead: "Babylon the Great, Mother of Prostitutes and of Idol Worship Everywhere around the World."
Indeed! What describes better this shameful sect of the centuries of 'abominations' the RCC has been guilty of committing against the body of Christ since it's inception?
The vile Inquisition was only a small part of it's criminal treachery committed against Christ's brethren.
> "Bible Right" <bibleri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> IF, however, you accept that Christ did NOT sin, because temptation alone > is not sin, then you HAVE to accept that the mere state of BEING 'homosexual' > (ie *attracted* to one's own sex) CANNOT, in itself, be sin.
[You are mistaken Peter as in many things you teach, this is mainly do to poor scholarship and failure to study the Scriptures in sufficient depth.]
If it is not a sin then why did Paul call such homosexual lust for another .... "VILE AFFECTION". "24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind," Romans 1:23-28 (KJV)
Paul also warns of not having * 'inordinate affection' for someone. [*2d depraved passion, vile passions -Strong's Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
" 5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, *inordinate affection*, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: " Col 3:5-6 (KJV)
Also he forewarned of those who would show such a mind-set of men and women who would be without the 'natural affection" that God has given to be used between man and woman. "Without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:31-32 (KJV)
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. " 2 Tim 3:2-5 (KJV)
Thus we are to "Turn away" from such perverted people who have no "Natural affection" as in the 'Natural affection' that man has to woman as ordained by God.
Did God excuse the sins of homosexuality when He demanded their death under the Mosaic Law? "13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Lev 20:13 (KJV)
Did they scream back, "well you made us feel like this, so why blame our sin on us." Thus even if homosexuality was an 'irresistible' feeling, still the condemned "VILE affection" part remains. So God still did not excuse their "Abomination" of having sex together, which is "Fornication" anyway.
And how is it that even "Effeminate" men will be barred from the kingdom of God? Unless of course you are "Deceived" like the Homophiles of today.
"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. "1 Cor 6:9-10 (KJV)
Or..... " 9 Do ye not know that unrighteous persons shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor the rapacious, shall inherit the kingdom of God " 1 Cor 6:9-10 (Darby)
> > > > > > "Bible Right" <bibleri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > > > > The 'invisible' Spiritual Church of Christ will > > > > > > >remain, in which all Christians are One in Christ, whether they > > agree > > > > > with > > > > > > >one-another or not.
> > > > > > Really? > > > > > > "10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus > > Christ, > > > > > that > > > > > > ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among > > you; > > > > but > > > > > > that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the > > same > > > > > > judgment " 1 Cor 1:10 KJV)
> > > > > Find me two Christians that agree on EVERYTHING... > > > > > Peter.
> > > > Jeff Hickling and the Apostle Paul {;o;}
> > > Not according to St Paul, I bet!
> > Easy to check. > > You have Paul's letters of instruction and doctrines, see if there are any > I > > disagree with. {;o;}
> > I bet I can show 'umpteen' where you and he really disagree, Jim Lad. > > <huh! huh!>
> > Jeff...
> > What! Even when he tells us to respect Tradition? Stone me! You must be > mellowing Jeffrey. > You cannot show me 'umpteen' anything. You carry on with your sordid > little anti-Christian agenda and I will carry on as a practising Roman Catholic. > Sheep go to Heaven > Goats go to Hell ;o) > Jim
"zer.onic" <r...@news.group> wrote in message >> Visible splits in the visible church are actually a healthy thing as they >> prevent the religio-political tendency going too far. (Without trying to >> change the subject I think the history of the Roman Catholic organisation >> stands as witness that.)
> Well you can't even bring yourself to say Roman Catholic Church. It's > the 'Roman Catholic organisation' is it. That gives the measure of you my > friend. Ok, your opinion, now give us a history lesson and hopefully you > won't forget what you were talking about this time.
The shameful and tainted history of the Roman Catholic Organisation is a sick and vile account of the criminal and evil killing and torturing of the faithful brethren of Christ who defied and refused to capitulate to the heresies and unlawful acts of this "Great Whore" which has and still is "Deceiving the nations" with her brazen Pomp, 'adultery' and 'fornication'.
9 "And now think hard: his seven heads represent a certain city built on seven hills where this woman has her residence. Rev 17:9 (TLB)
ROME............
Rev 17:5 (TLB) "A mysterious caption was written on her forehead: "Babylon the Great, Mother of Prostitutes and of Idol Worship Everywhere around the World." Indeed! What describes better this shameful sect of the centuries of 'abominations' the RCC has been guilty of committing against the body of Christ since it's inception?
The vile Inquisition was only a small part of it's criminal treachery committed against Christ's brethren.
> > > What! Even when he tells us to respect Tradition? Stone me! You must be > > mellowing Jeffrey. > > You cannot show me 'umpteen' anything. You carry on with your sordid > > little anti-Christian agenda and I will carry on as a practising Roman > Catholic. > > Sheep go to Heaven > > Goats go to Hell ;o) > > Jim
> And which one are you Jimmy?
> Well you have referred to RC's as sheep many a time. I thought you would
have got that connection Jeffrey or are you getting rusty in your 'crusade'? Noticed you ignored the earlier point you crafty old bigot. Not quite the Biblical scholar you claim to be eh!
> > > "Bible Right" <bibleri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > IF, however, you accept that Christ did NOT sin, because temptation > alone > > > is not sin, then you HAVE to accept that the mere state of BEING > > 'homosexual' > > > (ie *attracted* to one's own sex) CANNOT, in itself, be sin.
> > [You are mistaken Peter as in many things you teach, this is mainly do to > > poor scholarship and failure to study the Scriptures in sufficient depth.]
> > If it is not a sin then why did Paul call such homosexual lust for another > > .... "VILE AFFECTION". > > "24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of > > their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who > > changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the > creature > > more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. > > 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their > > women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And > > likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in > their > > lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and > > receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 > > And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave > > them over to a reprobate mind," > > Romans 1:23-28 (KJV)
> > Paul also warns of not having * 'inordinate affection' for someone. > > [*2d depraved passion, vile passions -Strong's Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
> > " 5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, > > uncleanness, *inordinate affection*, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, > > which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the > > children of disobedience: " Col 3:5-6 (KJV)
> > Also he forewarned of those who would show such a mind-set of men and > women > > who would be without the 'natural affection" that God has given to be used > > between man and woman. > > "Without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the > > judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, > not > > only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:31-32 > > (KJV)
> > "For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, > > blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural > > affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers > of > > those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures > more > > than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power > > thereof: from such turn away. " 2 Tim 3:2-5 (KJV)
> > Thus we are to "Turn away" from such perverted people who have no "Natural > > affection" as in the 'Natural affection' that man has to woman as ordained > > by God.
> > Did God excuse the sins of homosexuality when He demanded their death > under > > the Mosaic Law? > > "13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them > > have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their > > blood shall be upon them." Lev 20:13 (KJV)
> > Did they scream back, "well you made us feel like this, so why blame our > sin > > on us." > > Thus even if homosexuality was an 'irresistible' feeling, still the > > condemned "VILE affection" part remains. > > So God still did not excuse their "Abomination" of having sex together, > > which is "Fornication" anyway.
> > And how is it that even "Effeminate" men will be barred from the kingdom > of > > God? > > Unless of course you are "Deceived" like the Homophiles of today.
> > "Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor > > effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor > > covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the > > kingdom of God. "1 Cor 6:9-10 (KJV)
> > Or..... > > " 9 Do ye not know that unrighteous persons shall not inherit the kingdom > of > > God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor > > those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men, 10 > > nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor the > > rapacious, shall inherit the kingdom of God " 1 Cor 6:9-10 (Darby)
> > Jeff...
> He believes in his denomination/cult book more than the Holy Bible. That is > why he always refers to his denomination/cult book.
The trouble is that his 'denomination/cult' book as you call it derives from the Holy Bible. He has fallen into the same trap as all Scripture freaks. Tell us something we don't know.
The bible does not say it is wrong to love. David loved Jonathan, the bible does not describe it as a 'vile affection', neither was Christ's love for Lazarus or John a 'vile affection'. Paul's Romans passage is about idolatry. He likens idolatry to *heterosexuals* turning to their own sex in a way that is unnatural for them. All these passages you have quoted are talking about LUST, not devoted loving and committed relationships. Jesus was clear that ALL such lust (including heterosexual) is sinful. (Read the sermon on the mount again...) David was so attracted to Jonathan that he said his love 'surpassed that of a woman', and the bible failed to say what a 'vile affection' that was...
> "Bible Right" <bibleri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > IF, however, you accept that Christ did NOT sin, because temptation alone > is not sin, then you HAVE to accept that the mere state of BEING 'homosexual' > (ie *attracted* to one's own sex) CANNOT, in itself, be sin.
[You are mistaken Peter as in many things you teach, this is mainly do to poor scholarship and failure to study the Scriptures in sufficient depth.]
If it is not a sin then why did Paul call such homosexual lust for another .... "VILE AFFECTION". "24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind," Romans 1:23-28 (KJV)
Paul also warns of not having * 'inordinate affection' for someone. [*2d depraved passion, vile passions -Strong's Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
" 5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, *inordinate affection*, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: " Col 3:5-6 (KJV)
Also he forewarned of those who would show such a mind-set of men and women who would be without the 'natural affection" that God has given to be used between man and woman. "Without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:31-32 (KJV)
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. " 2 Tim 3:2-5 (KJV)
Thus we are to "Turn away" from such perverted people who have no "Natural affection" as in the 'Natural affection' that man has to woman as ordained by God.
Did God excuse the sins of homosexuality when He demanded their death under the Mosaic Law? "13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Lev 20:13 (KJV)
Did they scream back, "well you made us feel like this, so why blame our sin on us." Thus even if homosexuality was an 'irresistible' feeling, still the condemned "VILE affection" part remains. So God still did not excuse their "Abomination" of having sex together, which is "Fornication" anyway.
And how is it that even "Effeminate" men will be barred from the kingdom of God? Unless of course you are "Deceived" like the Homophiles of today.
"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. "1 Cor 6:9-10 (KJV)
Or..... " 9 Do ye not know that unrighteous persons shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor the rapacious, shall inherit the kingdom of God " 1 Cor 6:9-10 (Darby)
> > > Visible splits in the visible church are actually a healthy thing as > they > > > prevent the religio-political tendency going too far. (Without trying to > > > change the subject I think the history of the Roman Catholic > organisation > > > stands as witness that.)
> > Well you can't even bring yourself to say Roman Catholic Church. It's > > the 'Roman Catholic organisation' is it. That gives the measure of you > > my > > friend. Ok, your opinion, now give us a history lesson and hopefully > you > > won't forget what you were talking about this time.
> > It's a worldwide organisation that is in part a religious 'church' and in > > part a political institution.
> > It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the world > of > Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? > ..........................Get real! > MATTHEW 16: 17-19 > -------
> Are you disagreeing that it is in part religious and in part political? > Remember the Vatican is a state that issues it's own passports and has a > seat at the UN. > Yet Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world".
> Wrong context, 'give unto Caesar' springs to mind. Do you live in a cave or in
the Western Isles perhaps? I believe there is a time warp there if it is the latter. That would certainly explain the rubbish you spout! Jim MATTHEW 16: 17-19
"Jim Docherty" <Jim.Doche...@btinternet.com> wrote in message > It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the world of Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? ..........................Get real! MATTHEW 16: 17-19
The Church of Christ has certainly survived 2,000 years, but the RCC has made sure it is not a part of it.
The latest disgraceful blasphemy your Christ dishonouring Pontiff has committed, [he dishonours Christ already by wearing a covering on his head when praying, and that in public] was to kneel down and recently worship the idol statue of 'Mary'. and attempt to pass his prayers through her. Meanwhile Jim check out all the other 'wicked acts of sin' your pompous Pontif is commiting.
Matt 23:8-10 (KJV)."And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
1 COR 11:4 (KJV) "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. "
Rev 17:5 (TLB) "A mysterious caption was written on her forehead: "Babylon the Great, Mother of Prostitutes and of Idol Worship Everywhere around the World."
Indeed! What describes better this shameful sect of the centuries of 'abominations' the RCC has been guilty of committing against the body of Christ since it's inception?
The vile Inquisition was only a small part of it's criminal treachery committed against Christ's brethren.
Jeff...
Keep taking the tablets Jeffrey. Finish the dose, they will work..................................................eventually!
"Jim Docherty" <Jim.Doche...@btinternet.com> wrote in message > It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the world of Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? ..........................Get real! MATTHEW 16: 17-19
The Church of Christ has certainly survived 2,000 years, but the RCC has made sure it is not a part of it.
The latest disgraceful blasphemy your Christ dishonouring Pontiff has committed, [he dishonours Christ already by wearing a covering on his head when praying, and that in public] was to kneel down and recently worship the idol statue of 'Mary'. and attempt to pass his prayers through her. Meanwhile Jim check out all the other 'wicked acts of sin' your pompous Pontif is commiting.
Matt 23:8-10 (KJV)."And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
1 COR 11:4 (KJV) "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. "
Rev 17:5 (TLB) "A mysterious caption was written on her forehead: "Babylon the Great, Mother of Prostitutes and of Idol Worship Everywhere around the World."
Indeed! What describes better this shameful sect of the centuries of 'abominations' the RCC has been guilty of committing against the body of Christ since it's inception?
The vile Inquisition was only a small part of it's criminal treachery committed against Christ's brethren.
Jeff...
>Keep taking the tablets Jeffrey. Finish the dose, they will >work..................................................eventually!
Grovelling sarcasm does not erase the blatant hypocritical sins of your Pontiff and the infamous Roman Catholic Organisation, its sins "have reached highest heaven" and they leap out for all to see, believers and unbelievers alike.
Let us all thank God many of your diocese will be bankrupted and will fold up after the massive millions upon millions of dollar payouts for the evil sins of your perverted priests who [sin further by calling themselves "Father".] have been denied the privilege of marriage.
Yet another disgraceful sin of the RCC. "forbidding to marry"
Paul stated...."9 But if you can't control yourselves, go ahead and marry. It is better to marry than to burn with lust. " 1 Cor 7:8-9 (TLB)
These priests are so frustrated sexually they have sex with children instead of getting married as instructed. Thus showing the stupidity and evil consiquences of refusing to obey what Scripture teachers.
The RC sect is bound up in error and wicked practises from top to bottom, and your history proves it to this very day. Ugh! "The Great Whore" indeed.
Jeff...
"Babylon the Great, Mother of Prostitutes and of Idol Worship [The Pope worshipping the image of the Virgin Mary ] Everywhere around the World."
> "zer.onic" <r...@news.group> wrote in message > news:cfnptk$e1a$2@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk... . > It takes the Holy Spirit-filled to understand another Holy Spirit-filled.
What a pompous statement. You have to be a member before the Holy Spirit touches you.(? ) You guys have totally missed the Message.
> > It's a worldwide organisation that is in part a religious 'church' and in > > part a political institution.
> > It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the world > of > Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? > ..........................Get real! > MATTHEW 16: 17-19 > -------
> Are you disagreeing that it is in part religious and in part political? > Remember the Vatican is a state that issues it's own passports and has a > seat at the UN. > Yet Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world".
> Wrong context, 'give unto Caesar' springs to mind. Do you live in a cave
or in the Western Isles perhaps? I believe there is a time warp there if it is the latter. That would certainly explain the rubbish you spout! Jim MATTHEW 16: 17-19 -----------
I don't follow your reasoning. Do you accept that the Roman Catholic organisation has both religious and political elements?
> > > It's a worldwide organisation that is in part a religious 'church' and > in > > > part a political institution.
> > > It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the > world > > of > > Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? > > ..........................Get real! > > MATTHEW 16: 17-19 > > -------
> > Are you disagreeing that it is in part religious and in part political? > > Remember the Vatican is a state that issues it's own passports and has a > > seat at the UN. > > Yet Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world".
> > Wrong context, 'give unto Caesar' springs to mind. Do you live in a cave > or in > the Western Isles perhaps? I believe there is a time warp there if it is > the latter. > That would certainly explain the rubbish you spout! > Jim > MATTHEW 16: 17-19 > -----------
> I don't follow your reasoning. Do you accept that the Roman Catholic > organisation has both religious and political elements?
Well of course it has. How could it survive 'visibly' otherwise. Now, your point being??
> > > > It's a worldwide organisation that is in part a religious 'church' and > > in > > > > part a political institution.
> > > > It is the Church of Jesus Christ that has survived 2000 years in the > > world > > > of > > > Mammon. How long will your little sect survive? > > > ..........................Get real! > > > MATTHEW 16: 17-19 > > > -------
> > > Are you disagreeing that it is in part religious and in part political? > > > Remember the Vatican is a state that issues it's own passports and has a > > > seat at the UN. > > > Yet Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world".
> > > Wrong context, 'give unto Caesar' springs to mind. Do you live in a > cave > > or in > > the Western Isles perhaps? I believe there is a time warp there if it > is > > the latter. > > That would certainly explain the rubbish you spout! > > Jim > > MATTHEW 16: 17-19 > > -----------
> > I don't follow your reasoning. Do you accept that the Roman Catholic > > organisation has both religious and political elements?
> Well of course it has. How could it survive 'visibly' otherwise. Now, > your > point being??
I was answering your objection of my referring to the Roman Catholic "organisation", rather than as a 'church'. The point being that the real worldwide 'church' of Christ is the believers, not a religio-political institution (which may have believers as its members).
"Bible Right" <bibleri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5GEVc.396$Nt2.325@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net... The bible does not say it is wrong to love. David loved Jonathan, the bible does not describe it as a 'vile affection', neither was Christ's love for Lazarus or John a 'vile affection'. Paul's Romans passage is about idolatry. He likens idolatry to *heterosexuals* turning to their own sex in a way that is unnatural for them. -----------------
Erm, isn't it the case that when '*heterosexuals* turn to their own sex in a way that is unnatural for them' they are called 'homosexuals'?? Thus you are saying Paul likens homosexuality to idolatry?
> > > > > Roman Catholics and Anglo-Catholics > > > > > do not pray TO the Saints, we ask for intercessionary prayers from > > them. > > > > > That is, we ask for Mary and other Saints to pray WITH us on our > > behalf.
> > > > How do you ask them?
> > > The point is, the Creed says we believe in 'the communion of saints' > > > (Apostle's Creed), and as we believe the departed Saints are not 'gone' > > but > > > alive with Christ, then there's no reason why we should not ask their > > > prayers to be added to ours, just like asking living Christians to pray > > with > > > us and for us. Petitioning the Saints to intercede for us, during our > > > prayers, is not the same thing as worshipping them in place of God, > which > > > would indeed be idolatrous.
> > I assumed the 'communion of saints' meant living believers, not certain > dead > > ones! Praying to dead believers to ask them to pray for you is nothing > like > > asking living believers to pray for you. > > I don't think your interpretation of the 'communion of saints' would have > > been any creed of the original apostles!
> Hopefully, you and I can agree to differ on this one, whilst still > acknowledging each other as Christians... ;-)
I'm not sure about 'agreeing to differ' as that implies I would accept your practice as being valid (but not to my 'taste'), doesn't it? As I don't accept it as being valid per se (and not a matter of 'taste' or whatever), I can only say you must do what you think is right!
"Jim Docherty" <Jim.Doche...@btinternet.com> wrote in message >Well of course it has. How could it [ie, the RCC...Jeff] survive 'visibly' otherwise.
It is 'visibly' being 'kept warm', ready for the terrible judgment of God upon it, for all it's centuries of blatant wickedness during the dark ages, and it's evil murderous activities in the killing of Christ's brethren in the vile inquisition.
Now the attempted concealed raping of innocent children and women by Catholic 'Father' perverts. This Pope and the last one according to revealed secret documents threatened excommunication to any clergy exposing the secret files of it's wicked attempt to sweep such a terrible festering evil 'under the Vatican carpet'.
>Now, >your point being??
The RCC Pope and it's hierarchy just cannot be trusted. They lied and used evasion to withhold the TRUTH from the authorities over this obnoxious scandal, which is still raging today, thankfully many of the diocese will be bankrupted over this disgraceful exhibition.
"He who bids Godspeed is a PARTAKER of their evil deeds"
"2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." Rev 19:2 (KJV)
Jeff... Matt 23:8-10 Christ's command..."Call no man Father upon the earth"
The Pope blasphemously allows himself to be called 'HOLY FATHER'.
1 Cor 11:4 "4 Every man [that includes your pompous Pope] praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head " 1 Cor 11:4 (KJV)
Which of course is Christ himself.....But the Pope and Catholics couldn't care less.
"Jim Docherty" <Jim.Doche...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>Well of course it has. How could it [ie, the RCC...Jeff] survive 'visibly' otherwise.
It is 'visibly' being 'kept warm', ready for the terrible judgment of God upon it, for all it's centuries of blatant wickedness during the dark ages, and it's evil murderous activities in the killing of Christ's brethren in the vile inquisition.
Now the attempted concealed raping of innocent children and women by Catholic 'Father' perverts. This Pope and the last one according to revealed secret documents threatened excommunication to any clergy exposing the secret files of it's wicked attempt to sweep such a terrible festering evil 'under the Vatican carpet'.
>Now, >your point being??
The RCC Pope and it's hierarchy just cannot be trusted. They lied and used evasion to withhold the TRUTH from the authorities over this obnoxious scandal, which is still raging today, thankfully many of the diocese will be bankrupted over this disgraceful exhibition.
"He who bids Godspeed is a PARTAKER of their evil deeds"
"2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." Rev 19:2 (KJV)
Jeff... Matt 23:8-10 Christ's command..."Call no man Father upon the earth"
The Pope blasphemously allows himself to be called 'HOLY FATHER'.
1 Cor 11:4 "4 Every man [that includes your pompous Pope] praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head " 1 Cor 11:4 (KJV)
Which of course is Christ himself.....But the Pope and Catholics couldn't care less.
> > > > > > Roman Catholics and Anglo-Catholics > > > > > > do not pray TO the Saints, we ask for intercessionary prayers from > > > them. > > > > > > That is, we ask for Mary and other Saints to pray WITH us on our > > > behalf.
> > > > > How do you ask them?
> > > > The point is, the Creed says we believe in 'the communion of saints' > > > > (Apostle's Creed), and as we believe the departed Saints are not > 'gone' > > > but > > > > alive with Christ, then there's no reason why we should not ask their > > > > prayers to be added to ours, just like asking living Christians to > pray > > > with > > > > us and for us. Petitioning the Saints to intercede for us, during our > > > > prayers, is not the same thing as worshipping them in place of God, > > which > > > > would indeed be idolatrous.
> > > I assumed the 'communion of saints' meant living believers, not certain > > dead > > > ones! Praying to dead believers to ask them to pray for you is nothing > > like > > > asking living believers to pray for you. > > > I don't think your interpretation of the 'communion of saints' would > have > > > been any creed of the original apostles!
> > Hopefully, you and I can agree to differ on this one, whilst still > > acknowledging each other as Christians... ;-)
> I'm not sure about 'agreeing to differ' as that implies I would accept your > practice as being valid (but not to my 'taste'), doesn't it? > As I don't accept it as being valid per se (and not a matter of 'taste' or > whatever), I can only say you must do what you think is right!
Which is what each Christian must do. I believe that Jesus promised true believers eternal life, and therefore their souls have not been extinguished.
> "Bible Right" <bibleri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:5GEVc.396$Nt2.325@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net... > The bible does not say it is wrong to love. David loved Jonathan, the bible > does not describe it as a 'vile affection', neither was Christ's love for > Lazarus or John a 'vile affection'. Paul's Romans passage is about > idolatry. He likens idolatry to *heterosexuals* turning to their own sex in > a way that is unnatural for them. > -----------------
> Erm, isn't it the case that when > '*heterosexuals* turn to their own sex in a way that is unnatural for them' > they are called 'homosexuals'?? Thus you are saying Paul likens > homosexuality to idolatry?
No, that's not my understanding of it at all. They remain heterosexuals, as they remain attracted naturally to women. As I've said elsewhere, homosexuals CANNOT become heterosexuals by any known means, and the reverse is also true. But heterosexuals can commit homosexual acts (it often happens in prisons, for instance) and homosexuals can commit heterosexual acts (they often marry, as society pressurises them into it, but such 'marriages' usually fail.)
----- Original Message ----- From: Bible Right Newsgroups: england.religion.christian,uk.religion.interfaith Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 11:18 PM Subject: Re: The Blasphemy of CATHOLICITY
>Oh, Jeff you WALLY! >Peter.
Better a wally, then a dummy Peter {;o;}
>Oh, Jeff you WALLY!
But a wally that actually speaks the truth on these very serious matters below. Jeff... "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist" <Nospame...@thanks.com> wrote in message news:lq7Wc.748$wE1.472@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"Jim Docherty" <Jim.Doche...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>Well of course it has. How could it [ie, the RCC...Jeff] survive 'visibly' otherwise.
It is 'visibly' being 'kept warm', ready for the terrible judgment of God upon it, for all it's centuries of blatant wickedness during the dark ages, and it's evil murderous activities in the killing of Christ's brethren in the vile inquisition.
Now the attempted concealed raping of innocent children and women by Catholic 'Father' perverts. This Pope and the last one according to revealed secret documents threatened excommunication to any clergy exposing the secret files of it's wicked attempt to sweep such a terrible festering evil 'under the Vatican carpet'.
>Now, >your point being??
The RCC Pope and it's hierarchy just cannot be trusted. They lied and used evasion to withhold the TRUTH from the authorities over this obnoxious scandal, which is still raging today, thankfully many of the diocese will be bankrupted over this disgraceful exhibition.
"He who bids Godspeed is a PARTAKER of their evil deeds"
"2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." Rev 19:2 (KJV)
Jeff... Matt 23:8-10 Christ's command..."Call no man Father upon the earth"
The Pope blasphemously allows himself to be called 'HOLY FATHER'.
1 Cor 11:4 "4 Every man [that includes your pompous Pope] praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head " 1 Cor 11:4 (KJV)
Which of course is Christ himself.....But the Pope and Catholics couldn't care less.
