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Subject: Re: Process discussion: reboot
From: Gabriel Hurley <gab...@gmail.com>
To: Django developers <django-developers@googlegroups.com>
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That sounds like a great idea! Even having been at this for a few
months I'd watch it just to see how somebody else handles things.

On Apr 20, 10:55=A0am, Alex Gaynor <alex.gay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Bmheight <bmhei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > +1 to=A0Stephen Crosbys' proposal, although I think this would be a bit
> > difficult to perform as the Framework evolves and the documentation on =
this
> > would be a bit outdated as time goes on (And have to yet again maintain
> > another Document to keep up to date).
> > It it still none the less a good idea in my opinion.
>
> > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Stephen Crosby <stevecr...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> What could be very helpful here is some education for would-be Django
> >> developers. The tutorial format has worked so well for educating new D=
jango
> >> users, why not apply it also to Django developers also? After the 1.2
> >> release, why don't we come up with a Django developers tutorial that w=
alks
> >> us through the process of solving issues and working on Django. The go=
al of
> >> this would be to help would-be developers understand the Django develo=
pment
> >> process by getting their hands dirty with a real issue.
> >> It could begin with a short explanation of the process, go through fin=
ding
> >> a real (old) example issue in Trac (already solved), it could run down=
 what
> >> type of Trac activity is helpful and what is not. Then the tutorial co=
uld
> >> instruct the reader to checkout an old revision of Django (with the un=
solved
> >> issue) and how to reproduce the issue.
> >> We could show the reader how to apply a bad patch (attached by some
> >> less-informed Trac user), then how to run the test suite and notice th=
at
> >> some tests fail. Some instruction on how to politely note that fact on=
 Trac
> >> might be in order as well as how the patch was rewritten in order to p=
ass
> >> the tests.
> >> Another bit on proper documentation, some notes on quality, where to g=
et
> >> help, what types of issues need discussion on this list would be great=
 and
> >> I'm sure there's more that could be included with this type of tutoria=
l.
>
> >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <ja...@jacobian.org=
>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Gabriel Hurley <gab...@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
> >>> > When I finally did submit my first patch, I was terrified of gettin=
g
> >>> > it wrong and having it rejected. I'd seen it happen on other ticket=
s.
> >>> > It wasn't until I got *more involved* and started keeping up with t=
he
> >>> > trac timeline--watching the ebb and flow of tickets--that I started=
 to
> >>> > understand how the tone on trac had a reason. Until you get that
> >>> > perspective, it's hard to know what's right or wrong, and easy to t=
ake
> >>> > things personally. The core devs can seem imposing or scary simply
> >>> > because you don't know them.
>
> >>> This is *really* good feedback, and thank you very much for it.
>
> >>> Clearly scaring people isn't our intent, but if that's the result...
> >>> well, we're doing something wrong. I really don't want people to be
> >>> scared off, and I'm hearing from you and a few others that that's
> >>> already happening.
>
> >>> I don't think I need to enumerate why the tone on a ticket tracker
> >>> tends towards the terse -- lack of time, repetition, yadayada -- but
> >>> regardless I don't like our process being scary.
>
> >>> > If anything, my point is that getting started as a Django contribut=
or
> >>> > *can* be difficult, and the core team just being aware of that fact=
 is
> >>> > a good thing.
>
> >>> I hear you loud and clear, and I'd love any suggestions you might hav=
e
> >>> about how we might improve in this area.
>
> >>> Jacob
>
> >>> --
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>
> >> --
> >> Stephen Crosby
> >> Web Developer
> >> lithostech.com
>
> >> --
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>
> FWIW I've long been considering doing a screencast on how to
> contribute, picking a bug, diagnosing it, writing a patch, uploading
> to trac, etc. =A0I'll take this as a sign that such a resource would be
> helpful.
>
> Alex
>
> --
> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your
> right to say it." -- Voltaire
> "The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
> "Code can always be simpler than you think, but never as simple as you
> want" -- Me
>
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