Django community aggregator and non-English posts
Tom Tobin
unfortunately pure noise for those of us who don't understand other
languages. Can we either restrict the aggregator to English posts, or
at least create sub-feeds for English and non-English posts?
I don't mean to tread on the toes of those making non-English posts,
but English is the lingua franca of most open-source development
(including Django); non-English posts are of dubious usefulness to the
Django community at-large. By no means do I suggest that these
individuals cease posting; I only question whether those posts belong
in the aggregator.
pi song
Tom Tobin
> Are they real posts? I thought just spam.
They certainly *look* like real posts, but I can't understand anything
outside of the technical (English) terms used. :)
Arien
>
> The Django community aggregator includes non-English posts, which are
> unfortunately pure noise for those of us who don't understand other
> languages. Can we either restrict the aggregator to English posts, or
> at least create sub-feeds for English and non-English posts?
>
> I don't mean to tread on the toes of those making non-English posts,
> but English is the lingua franca of most open-source development
> (including Django); non-English posts are of dubious usefulness to the
-0 on the general idea and that last sentence is plain false:
http://www.jacobian.org/writing/2008/jan/30/arc/
Arien
Tom Tobin
Is it? The one language Django developers *around the world* are most
likely to have *in common* is ... English. The language used in
common for open-source developers from Brazil to Bulgaria is ...
English. I'm *not* saying Django shouldn't support local languages or
Unicode (which was the point of contention in that post)! I'm saying
that *for the community as a whole*, English is how we all communicate
with one another, and that an aggregator for that community at-large
should contain English posts.
Maybe non-English posts should go into a separate, secondary feed;
maybe we should have a feed per language, as well as a
language-agnostic "firehose" feed. Having *only* a firehose feed, as
we do now, is a problem.
alex....@gmail.com
to translate the posts into english. The google translator is fairly
effective and a lot of the russian posts I have looked at have bee
very good(at least as good as they can be in. A slighty mangled
state).
Alex Koshelev
international language of cource but not the one.
siudesign
http://www.djangobrasil.org/ < Not in English.
Huge -1
If people want to post in their own language they can. Having a feed
split up by languages might be an option, but it really isn't that
hard to ignore. Personally, I know those of us who speak multiple
languages actually appreciate having everything in one place.
On Jun 13, 5:15 pm, "Tom Tobin" <korp...@korpios.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Arien <regex...@gmail.com> wrote:
Jeff Anderson
> http://www.djangobrasil.org/ < Not in English.
>
> Huge -1
>
> If people want to post in their own language they can. Having a feed
> split up by languages might be an option, but it really isn't that
> hard to ignore. Personally, I know those of us who speak multiple
> languages actually appreciate having everything in one place.
>
to each source. Those of us that speak English and Spanish could
subscribe to a feed of English and Spanish posts. :) Those of you who
only speak English could subscribe to a feed that only includes English,
etc...
The current URL (firehose feed) could give the same result after this
feature is added to the aggregator so it won't disrupt anyone's current
subscription to the feed.
I think it would be beneficial to give the option as to what one can
subscribe to. That's in harmony with one of the major philosophies of
open source... freedom. :)
Jeff Anderson
Alex Koshelev
> 1KDownload
Jeff Anderson
> And when does author write in number of languages?
>
One way to "detect" the language would be to run it through the spell
check of several languages, and it would be safe to say that the one
that has the least amount of errors is likely the right candidate.
Jeff Anderson
Eduardo O. Padoan
They are real. I know because I can read the ones in portuguese. And
because, otherwise, they wouldn't be added to the aggregator in the
first place.
My humble opinion is that you should try to ignore then, because must
of the world population dont know a word of english, and are part of
the community too.
--
Eduardo de Oliveira Padoan
http://www.advogato.org/person/eopadoan/
http://twitter.com/edcrypt
Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/edcrypt
Tom Tobin
<alex....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I propose an option on the side of the page that asks whether or not
> to translate the posts into english. The google translator is fairly
> effective and a lot of the russian posts I have looked at have bee
> very good(at least as good as they can be in. A slighty mangled
> state).
Interesting idea (using Google translation); an alternate "firehose"
feed using that might be one option.
Tom Tobin
>
> It is not a problem. Just skip non-English posts at all. English is
> international language of cource but not the one.
Except it *is* a problem when I'm forced to deal with a regular influx
of what is, to me, *noise* in my aggregator. I've come fairly close
to actually unsubscribing from the Django aggregator over this; I
thought I'd see if anything could be done before I lose what is
otherwise an excellent resource.
Again: I'm not suggesting that everyone speaks English, or that
everyone should suddenly start posting in English even when their
intended audience is local. I'm pointing out that the *core* language
of the Django community is English (or have we been speaking something
else on django-users and django-dev?), and that the primary feed
should be English. I'd be *fine* with alternate-language feeds being
available; I'd even be roughly +0 on making an English-only feed the
"alternate".
Arien
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Arien <rege...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Tom Tobin <kor...@korpios.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Django community aggregator includes non-English posts, which are
>>> unfortunately pure noise for those of us who don't understand other
>>> languages. Can we either restrict the aggregator to English posts, or
>>> at least create sub-feeds for English and non-English posts?
>>>
>>> I don't mean to tread on the toes of those making non-English posts,
>>> but English is the lingua franca of most open-source development
>>> (including Django); non-English posts are of dubious usefulness to the
>>> Django community at-large. [...]
>>
>> -0 on the general idea and that last sentence is plain false:
>>
>> http://www.jacobian.org/writing/2008/jan/30/arc/
>
> Is it? The one language Django developers *around the world* are most
> likely to have *in common* is ... English. The language used in
> common for open-source developers from Brazil to Bulgaria is ...
> English. I'm *not* saying Django shouldn't support local languages or
> Unicode (which was the point of contention in that post)! I'm saying
> that *for the community as a whole*, English is how we all communicate
> with one another, and that an aggregator for that community at-large
> should contain English posts.
The non-English posts are clearly useful to the Django community as a
whole, as it appears that the majority of its members don't speak
English as their native tongue.
> Having *only* a [language-agnostic] firehose feed, as we do now, is a problem.
Why?
Arien
Jacob Kaplan-Moss
non-English one). If it's easy, I'll do it. If not, anyone is welcome
to look at the djangoproject.com source and submit a patch; I'll
happily accept it.
Jacob
Marty Alchin
my head for a while, and maybe now's the time to bring it to the
group. In addition to the language of blog posts, I've often had a
hard time tracking down information from past conversations that have
happened in the community.
There's an aggregator, IRC log, various mailing list archives, wiki
articles, ticket comments, localized community sites, the list goes on
and on. In the spirit of community-oriented sites (like djangosites,
djangosnippets, etc), I'd like to propose djangochatter, a site
dedicated to aggregated, managing and distributing communication
taking place in the Django community.
Essentially, it could pull together information from *all* those
various sources, index it for searching, provide feeds for various
tags and keywords (users would have to tag entries manually). In light
of this discussion, I expect it could also reasonably auto-detect the
text's language, so users could sign up for a feed for whatever
language(s) they can understand.
Ideally it would also have a complete (or as near as possible) archive
of *past* chatter as well. Pull together all the existing feed
history, mailing list discussions, IRC logs, wiki history, existing
ticket comments, and make them all available in a single place all at
once.
Basically, while I feel the existing aggregator is quite useful, and
has served the community well, I think there's more that can be done,
and there's no need to require the "official" site to handle it. In
fact, I would think that once djangochatter.(com|net|org) is up and
running, the existing aggregator could just redirect over to the
appropriate page and feed URLs and be done with it.
I don't have time to head this up, but I think it would be extremely
useful for everybody. I know I've spoken with a few people about this
in the past, but is anybody interested in heading this up? I'd love to
see it happen, and I'm more than willing to take part in discussions,
but I just can't dedicate myself too much to it at the moment.
-Gul
Tom Tobin
>
> The non-English posts are clearly useful to the Django community as a
> whole, as it appears that the majority of its members don't speak
> English as their native tongue.
I'm totally fine with non-English feeds being available.
>> Having *only* a [language-agnostic] firehose feed, as we do now, is a problem.
>
> Why?
Because, as I've mentioned earlier: users effectively get noise in
their feeds. For any post in a language other than English, *the vast
majority* of the Django community won't be able to read it. I'm not
only talking about native English speakers here; why should we expect
that a native Portuguese speaker will be able to read a Russian post?
Tom Tobin
If you can't easily do it, I'll look into it; this is my bitch/gripe,
after all. :)
Alex Koshelev
Alex Koshelev
Non-English post isn't noise!
Some English posts has more less profit then non-English ones.
Tom Tobin
> -100
>
> Non-English post isn't noise!
>
> Some English posts has more less profit then non-English ones.
*To me*, someone who can't read them, yes, they're noise. I'm sorry.
If I can't read it, it does nothing for me but take up space and time.
For someone who can read them, they are certainly *not* noise.
Tom Tobin
> There is existing multi-lingual aggregator http://djangosearch.com/
That's just been mentioned in the new "djangochatter" thread as well
... very interesting. Continuing over there.
Marty Alchin
> There is existing multi-lingual aggregator http://djangosearch.com/
I didn't realize djangosearch broke articles down by language,
complete with individual feeds! Looks like that's one problem down.
Combine that with Jacob's quick-and-dirty custom search, and maybe
we've already got all the bases covered.
-Gul
Tom Tobin
I think someone's got a time machine and isn't sharing.
Arien
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Arien <rege...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The non-English posts are clearly useful to the Django community as a
>> whole, as it appears that the majority of its members don't speak
>> English as their native tongue.
>
> I'm totally fine with non-English feeds being available.
I didn't think you had any problem with them.
>>> Having *only* a [language-agnostic] firehose feed, as we do now, is a problem.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because, as I've mentioned earlier: users effectively get noise in
> their feeds. For any post in a language other than English, *the vast
> majority* of the Django community won't be able to read it. I'm not
> only talking about native English speakers here; why should we expect
> that a native Portuguese speaker will be able to read a Russian post?
Users will get noise in their feeds anyway: not everyone has the same
interests, skills, etc. Seeing posts in a language you don't
understand is the least of your problems, I'd think. ;-)
Arien
Ludvig Ericson
>
> The Django community aggregator includes non-English posts, which are
> unfortunately pure noise for those of us who don't understand other
> languages. Can we either restrict the aggregator to English posts, or
> at least create sub-feeds for English and non-English posts?
+1, reason I don't use it is that I couldn't read half of it.
Obviously, we need a better solution than one plain feed. We need a
mixer, so you can choose say English and Swedish, and then if an
author writes in both English and Portugese, his/her loss - it
shouldn't show up in the aforementioned mix.
Ludvig "toxik" Ericson
ludvig....@gmail.com
Ivan Sagalaev
> Except it *is* a problem when I'm forced to deal with a regular influx
> of what is, to me, *noise* in my aggregator.
Tom, sorry, you're fighting with this so hard that I couldn't resist to
propose another solution for you! Pick a language that annoys you the
most and... start learning it. This turns your wasted time into fun :-)
And I'm only half-joking. While language-specific feeds won't hurt
anyone the current "firehose" feed gives a good outlook to the world at
large, doesn't it?
Zeddy
I don't see any problem at all. I can read in English and Russian, but
I don't understand any Japanese, Spanish, Portuegese etc texts.
But I can read all of them using Google translate. Source code is
international language and other text is quite understandable using
automatic translators.
BTW, one japanese post from feed about newforms were quite
interesting..
Tom Tobin wrote:
> The Django community aggregator includes non-English posts, which are
> unfortunately pure noise for those of us who don't understand other
> languages. Can we either restrict the aggregator to English posts, or
> at least create sub-feeds for English and non-English posts?
>
> but English is the lingua franca of most open-source development
> (including Django); non-English posts are of dubious usefulness to the