quick and dirty deck-hull "repair"

[morgan]

Hello all, (and sorry for cross-posting)

Prudent Mariners, I am told, do something called a "shakeout cruise"
before setting off into the sunset. I, however, don't know any prudent
mariners, only a small flotilla of truly amazing and inspiring wingnut
boat punks who are pounding to weather to make it to the dominican
republic in time to see some fucking whales... so I loaded up my little
new-to-me 1979 souther cross 28 with a couple of friends, shittons of
indian food spacebags and jars of peanutbutter, scrambled to stick a
little one-lugger into the thing, and pounded east from miami too,
trying to keep up.

So now I find myself in Georgetown, the cruiser "mecca" (explorer
charts' words...) of the southern part of the exumas, bahamas in one
soggy little piece of plastic. Donna even warned me about the deck hull
joint on these boats, but too late... The joint leaks. Not
"dangerously," more "damply" or perhaps "demoralizingly"... enough to
make the under seatee storage hard to use (making life a cluttered mess
for three on 28') and making me think that the prudent mariner should,
perhaps, not continue to weather for another couple hundred miles but
rather stay here and somehow "fix" the thing.

So, collective wisdom of punx on boats and diy sailors of all stripes,
anyone have thoughts or suggestions on a quick and dirty ~600nm "repair"
to a outward flange type deck hull joint? It has hex bolts and nuts
about every 4", and additionally, the track for the jib blocks is on top
of the flange with more bolts parallel and outside of the smaller deck
hull bolts.

I guess my goal is to keep sailing for another few months and then get
the thing back to NY/ New England and there spend the time to do a
proper undo the fasteners, open, clean, rebed job.

Now and in the short term, two paths that I can think of are to remove
whats left of the rub-rail, sand the glass of the flange, and then
either (a) 5200 the outside of exposed joint, or (b) glass over the
outside of the exposed joint.

Donna, I know you did pretty much this exact repair both for the short
term and long haul, right?

Also, I know some of you are wizards with glass and ply, so I'd love
your thoughts.

up the punx, we'll be sailing,
-Morgan

ps- the tiller broke some islands north. We replaced it with wood from a
shipping palette I grabbed on a whim and carried through the alleyways
back in south beach... we've gotten so much use from that random scrap
wood, highly recommended.

[Donna Lange]

Hey Morgan...
God, this is one of those times you wish you were wrong...Yes...there
are fixes.

In Ireland...I cut the liner out along the deck hull joint inside the
boat. It was a bugger behind the bulkheads, but possible. I used
epoxy/adhesive filler and biaxial cloth and filled in the space
between the deck and hull, laying the biaxial cloth from the aft
scupper to the anchor locker. This kept the water out of the boat.

Before sailing around the world, I actually separated the deck and
hull and by a miracle of engineering, we fiberglassed the joint
together using a 3 part rail cap to clamp the joint, screwing through
the whole rail cap. Huge job..tricky. Took some fancy clamping and
tropical slow hardener...but worked. But, that was to do the Southern
Ocean. I have to say. I pounded to weather a couple years ago to get
to Haiti...She held just fine. But there is a great book "Gentleman
Never Sail to Weather". This is probably a better solution. The
problem with fiberglassing the outside joint is that fiberglass just
doesn't like to make all those complex curves...that is why we had to
have the fancy 3 part rail and clamping set up.

I had tried recaulking the joint and a new cap rail...wasn't done very
well. It may have worked if it was done better....I would think that
this would work. At the yard in RI, there was a fellow who worked in
the yard where they built the SC28. He suggested rebuilding the deck
and hull and rejoining them. I didn't do that for my trip, but may
work for the most part.

Keep in touch. I do skype : inspiredinsanity

I feel your pain. Big hugs
I am here if can be of assistance.
D

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "diysailboatmeetup" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diysailboatmee...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>



--
Captain Donna Lange
Executive Director
OceansWatch North America
do...@oceanswatch.org
401 323 1484
skype: inspiredinsanity

[Donna Lange]

Oh about the tiller,
Mine broke too...just used hose clamps during my NA crossing...but
fiberglassed it back together. Have to say I still have the original
tiller. Crazy...should be in a museum. The sailing life..perpetual
creative engineering...we love it.

D

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 6:08 PM, morgan <na...@riseup.net> wrote:

[Meghanmitchell131]

Glassing sounds more proper, but not quick at all. What about caulking from the outside with some other sealant besides 5200...UV4000? Or something that will do the job for now, but not be such a pain to undo/redo correctly later?

Sent from my iPhone

[Donna Lange]

Hi Meghan.

I do agree. The 'real' fix is a tedious job. The thing is that you
still need a rail. The thing that Morgan mentioned is that the jib
track is on the rail. It is an interesting joint as their is a scupper
so the deck and hull meet where the deck makes a 90* angle then they
both make a 90* angle outward where they are clamped together. the Jib
track creates an incredible amount of torque on the rail which is why
it breaks. That is why I went to a super beafy rail that wraps around.
It is a 4"x 3" block of brazilian cherry around the boat. But that is
huge work. I wonder if perhaps there isn't a way to fashion some
blocks on the deck that could be used as a makeshift jib block, though
stationary, may allow for a minimal fix to the rail as it will take
the stress off it. There is a pad-eye on the deck that is pretty well
supported on my boat. It may not lend to the greatest sail shape but
be safe. Or you could just concentrate on beefing up one area of the
rail where the jib block is...I tried making knees out of SS to
support the jib track but it just damaged the hulll of the boat where
it attached.

Good luck, Morgan. Thanks Meghan.
D

[Tyler En Cavale]

Maybe if you dont adjust your block often you could run it from an external chain plate or a few pad eyes on the hull just below the deck with a snap shackle on the block. Ive never seen that done but it should put the load more in Sheer on the hull instead of pulling up on the deck.
Sent from my Kyocera Hydro

[Tyler En Cavale]

Im not sure that my other suggestion about the pad eye in the hull went threw but if you have to maintain movable blocks and need to fix that underway and lack hardware and a drill maybe you can run a line for and aft ,say shroud chain plate to a stern quarter cleat, and put the block on a rolling hitch. I reckon ull sort it out just fine but i m happy this blog is being used and people are sharing ideas.

[Tyler En Cavale]

Hi. Sorry i suck a internet and i don't know if I'm replying several times. Anyway. I was thinking that a few pad eyes in the hull just below the deck and a block on a snap shackle would take the load off deck and put it more in sheer. If you had to fix it under underway and didn't have hardware or a drill maybe you could run a line from, say shoud chain plate to an aft quarter cleat and put the block on a rolling hitch leaving it adjustable. And ill say again that im sure you will work it out but i am very happy to see this site being used and people sharing and careing .

[Donna Lange]

All good Tyler,
I hear that resounding...All for one..that we all sail safe. Best to you.
Donna\

[morgan]

Hey everyone!

It's really encouraging to get all these responses!

Here's what I'm thinking for a temp fix: remove what's left of the
haggard rub rail. Clean/scrape/sand down to the glass on the face of the
sandwich that is the join, then schmear some adhesive on that face. The
goal is to continue to sail for a few more months and get back to
somewhere I want to be to work on the boat some more.

Some things: Wood to replace the rubrail isn't really available here.
I'm not sure what adhesive to use. Probably not 5200. Not silicone.
Maybe something PU-based? It should have some flex to it, as the joint
will likely work some, and doesn't need to do any mechanical fastening
of the deck hull joint, as the bolts are still there and in
decent-looking shape.

For a permanent fix: Scrape off the temp schmear, then remove fasteners,
maybe pry open the joint, scrape, clean epoxy the holes, glass over the
joint, and redrill and reattach the fasteners.

I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts!

Also, anyone else on the list in the area?
Continued apologies for cross-posting,

-M

[Darrin F]

Hey there. 5200 is a poly-urethane Adhesive, by the way. Like I said, albeit tenacious, it does release just fine with a snap-blade knife dipped in toluene.
If you need materials in the D.R., let me know. A friend I work with building multihulls there travels between manzanillo and Nagua. He may be able to get you resin and mat.

Oh, be careful not to get toluene on your paint, should you decide to go that route.  PL poly-u adhesive also works in a pinch and is a fraction of the price.

[morgan]

> Oh, be careful not to get toluene on your paint, should you decide to
> go that route. PL poly-u adhesive also works in a pinch and is a
> fraction of the price.

Could you clarify that last part a bit? PL is the same as poly-u? Know
any brand names? As I understand it, the adhesives are:

* 5200
* PU/the black stuff between teak planks
* silicone -- not really an adhesive, properly used with mechanical
fasteners. wicks up the glass mat, making future glassing difficult.

Is that about right?

-M

On 03/07/2013 03:50 PM, Darrin F wrote:
> Hey there. 5200 is a poly-urethane Adhesive, by the way. Like I
> said, albeit tenacious, it does release just fine with a snap-blade
> knife dipped in toluene. If you need materials in the D.R., let me
> know. A friend I work with building multihulls there travels between
> manzanillo and Nagua. He may be able to get you resin and mat.
>
> Oh, be careful not to get toluene on your paint, should you decide to
> go that route. PL poly-u adhesive also works in a pinch and is a
> fraction of the price.
>
> On Mar 7, 2013 3:41 PM, "morgan" <na...@riseup.net

> <mailto:diysailboatmeetup%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>. For more

> options,
>>>> visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>> Google Groups "diysailboatmeetup" group. To unsubscribe from
>>> this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
>>> diysailboatmee...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:diysailboatmeetup%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>. For more

> options,
>>> visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "diysailboatmeetup" group. To unsubscribe from this
> group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
> diysailboatmee...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:diysailboatmeetup%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>. For more

[Darrin F]

Sorry.
PL is a brand. Sort of a generic poly urethane adhesive.

5200 is 3M's marine grade poly urethane adhesive, about on par with Sika Flex, which is what we use on cruise ships, but is expensive.

The black shit on teak decks is Poly Sulfide. I just installed a new deck on a 90footer and we used a metric shit ton of it and I obviously didn't pick up the check, nor have I any other time I've used it, so can't attest to its cost.

Hope that helps. I'm fucking caffeinated to the eyeballs

[Donna Lange]

Hi Morgan, All that sounds fine. Whatever UV protected poly you use is
fine. I agree with Darrin, 5200 is pretty flexible and can be removed.
Whatever is available will do the temp fix (not silicone). You are
goig to be epoxying any area you had it on anyway so you can fix any
damage. But I would suggest using an alternative jib block solution,
not the track on the rail...until you get a chance to reinforce the
rail. Good luck.

As I said before, my boat still gets wet when I really sail hard. Not
so much at the rail, but water works its way from the locker in the
cockpit...Watch out for the sinks...you have to close the seacocks or
they will back fill and you'll find unwanted water in the lockers too.
One of my next projects is to seal up my aft lockers so that water
can't roll forward from the back.

[morgan]

Hey Donna, are you refitting now? Where? Maybe I'll meet up and we can
have a sc28 fiberglassing meetup 2013!

-M

[Donna Lange]

I am in Florida...you are already way east of me....We should
definitely plan a meet up!!!