worked around. Think first of the gains over the facebook model --
there it's just contact, limited contact, not a contact. If someone
with friends' I think most users expect that to work.
Not quite sure what you mean by privacy model. In code this is what I envision:
> I'm starting to document some of this stuff here:
> http://diso-project.org/wiki/permissions
> I agree with Stephen's idea to move a lot of our data into userMeta
> (which is what Matt Mullenweg recommended). I won't make the final say
> on this point, but I think this approach makes sense and is "doing the
> appropriate WordPress thing".
> Stephen, do you have a clear privacy model in your head that you could
> share? Or do we need to do some research and brainstorming? And, what
> can we learn from Drupal, if anything?
> I'm still skeptical about using XFN for permissions, just because
> people might call someone a friend but might not want to share
> everything with that "friend" that they share with all their other
> "friends". Perhaps we can have macro levels and then allow for
> individual person overrides?
> Maybe Will Norris can give us some insight here?
> Chris
> On Jan 15, 2008 8:15 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Maybe it's just me, but I'm a big fan of using what's in place. Users
> > in WP can be extended to contain any arbitrary data with no extra
> > table. Links can be both XFN and categorised easily with existing UI
> > and matched to users by checking URIs (which should be abstracted into
> > wp-openid and not done in diso-profile). If a harder link is needed
> > (I'm not convinced it is) we can store an array of link IDs to
> > associate with in the user profile. Arbitrary categories on links are
> > supported in the existing UI and just need to be supported in the
> > plugins.
> > The biggest reason to me to use in place code and data structure is
> > that users / plugin devs are familiar with the UI / data model
> > already. It also reduces our overhead.
> > +1 on using the new tax features to extend XFN, -1 on using it on a
> > brand new data model
> > On Jan 15, 2008 11:01 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Some notes:
> > > Dealing with permissions also means dealing with the ways we can store
> > > information about people. Right now, we have two models: Wordpress
> > > users, and (in a roundabout way) the blogroll. I have the skeleton of
> > > a third - a DiSo-specific contacts table. A DiSo contact could be
> > > linked to a Wordpress user via the userid, and we could probably join
> > > on the blogroll in the same way, but that gets hairy. I'm
> > > sleep-deprived right now, or I'd launch into a discussion of the
> > > semantics behind these various models, but clearly we need something.
> > > We like the XFN data that the blogroll has, we like the way the actual
> > > users can have roles, permissions, and login via openid, and we have
> > > some custom needs (oh yes, we have xmpp contacts too) that in this
> > > case include tags or groups for group-based permissions.
> > > A tangled web we weave, no?
> > > I believe that the taxonomy model in Wordpress can be applied to
> > > anything - the blogroll categories are a taxonomy, so we could reuse
> > > those, or create our own, but I think that applying a taxonomy
> > > (whether groups or tags or both) to whatever object we decide to use
> > > is within the realm of possibility. Update: check out
> > > wp-includes/taxonomy.php for a decent api, which could definitely be
> > > used by a plugin to tag/group/categorize whatever we want. Update #2:
> > > check out http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_2.3:new_taxonomy
> > > Still digging,
> > > --Steve
> > > On Jan 15, 2008 8:05 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I think that if XFN cannot encapsulate the basic list of categories we
> > > > need (ie professional relationships) XFN needs to be added to. I'm
> > > > not against more arbitrary tag-like groups in the future as well
> > > > though, WP has the functionality for it :)
> > > > On Jan 15, 2008 7:45 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > +1. That'd be great.
> > > > > I think we should consider professional connections too, but starting
> > > > > with friends, family and "web buddies" or contacts would be smart.
> > > > > Just to mark my concern about XFN clear, mixing XFN semantics with
> > > > > access functionality is dangerous; for example, when I was at Flock, I
> > > > > had to set a number of coworkers as "family members" within Flickr to
> > > > > be able to prevent the world from seeing early screenshots... this was
> > > > > somewhat odious to me since they were clearly not family members but I
> > > > > had not other way of marking those images as being available to only a
> > > > > subset of of my contact list...
> > > > > I wonder if we should consider the ability to create groups/tagged
> > > > > groups of people like Facebook sets as a more flexible way of managing
> > > > > permissions? or does that quickly overcomplicate things?
> > > > > Chris
> > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 3:34 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I agree that hard XFN is not the way to go. On the other hand, I'd
> > > > > > like to keep the granularity of 'family, not friends', 'friends not
> > > > > > family', 'friends and family' (kin friend kin,friend)
> > > > > > We just need 'nice names' like the XFN creator has and then put them
> > > > > > in some kind of checkbox-based UI or similar...
> > > > > > That's how I've been thinking anyway :)
> > > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 6:17 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I think we should spend some good time working on the permissioning
> > > > > > > model of the profile plugin... and we should make it possible to use
> > > > > > > this permissioning system as a foundation for most functionality
> > > > > > > throughout DiSo. See how Facebook handles this as I'd really like to
> > > > > > > borrow from their UI (rather than rely on XFN values):
> > > > > > > http://flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/2163421329/
> > > > > > > As for the difference between taxonomy tags and categories in
> > > > > > > WordPress, the simple way to think about their differentiation is that
> > > > > > > you use free tags on the fly, whereas categories are more like sets or
> > > > > > > more-permanent collections. While I can see how programmatically they
> > > > > > > should probably be the same thing (like Drupal), I do believe that
> > > > > > > both systems derive from the same taxonomy infrastructure:
> > > > > > > http://wordpress.com/blog/2007/09/22/tags-and-categories/
> > > > > > > http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/03/01/tags-are-not-categories-got-it/
> > > > > > > As well, I believe the WordPress API differentiates between tags and
> > > > > > > categories, so it's something to keep in mind.
> > > > > > > Anyway, back to permissions. How can we best structure/document our
> > > > > > > approach to permissions? I feel like Drupal has one of the more
> > > > > > > flexible (but hard to use systems) so perhaps we can learn from their
> > > > > > > architecture while also inheriting some of the decent UI from
> > > > > > > Facebook?
> > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 1:48 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > They are separate, which I do not understand at all. They should be the same.
> > > > > > > > The permissions/whitelisting for this can already be handled by my
> > > > > > > > diso-profile plugin, although I am looking to improve that part of the
> > > > > > > > code somewhat.
> > > > > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 12:33 PM, Dan Brickley <danbrick...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 15/01/2008, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Here's a quick plugin request idea (inspired by Tantek):
> > > > > > > > > > http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-tagging
> > > > > > > > > > Thoughts? Seems like it'd be pretty trivial to implement?
> > > > > > > > > Yep, would be cool, definitely. I've lost track of relationship
> > > > > > > > > between categories and tags in the Wordpress world. Does wordpress
> > > > > > > > > have an innate notion of tag, as well as category? Or they're
> > > > > > > > > essentially same thing?
> > > > > > > > > My thinking is to perhaps use bengee's new RDF store to harvest the
> > > > > > > > > categories that my friends are using, so they can be re-used rather
> > > > > > > > > than reinvented. I'm not sure if Morten's SKOS output plugin still
> > > > > > > > > works, but we're going to have a chat about this in IRC soon, so will
> > > > > > > > > report back here...
> > > > > > > > > cheers,
> > > > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > > > > refs http://www.wasab.dk/morten/blog/archives/2004/09/01/skos-output-from-...
> > > > > > > > > http://bnode.org/blog/2008/01/15/rdf-tools-an-rdf-store-for-wordpress
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer
> > > > > > > > <http://www.awriterz.org>
> > > > > > > > MSN/GTalk/Jabber: singpol...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > ICQ/AIM: 103332966
> > > > > > > > BLOG: http://singpolyma.net/
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Chris Messina
> > > > > > > Citizen-Participant &
> > > > > > > Open Source Advocate-at-Large
> > > > > > > Work: http://citizenagency.com
> > > > > > > Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
> > > > > > > Cell: 412.225.1051
> > > > > > > IM: factoryjoe
> > > > > > > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer
> > > > > > <http://www.awriterz.org>
> > > > > > MSN/GTalk/Jabber: singpol...@gmail.com
> > > > > > ICQ/AIM: 103332966
> > > > > > BLOG: http://singpolyma.net/
> > > > > --
> > > > > Chris Messina
> > > > > Citizen-Participant &
> > > > > Open Source Advocate-at-Large
> > > > > Work: http://citizenagency.com
> > > > > Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
> > > > > Cell: 412.225.1051
> > > > > IM: factoryjoe
> > > > > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
> > > > --
> > > > - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer
> > > > <http://www.awriterz.org>
> > > > MSN/GTalk/Jabber: singpol...@gmail.com
> > > > ICQ/AIM: 103332966
> > > > BLOG: http://singpolyma.net/
> > > --
> > > Steve Ivy
> > > http://redmonk.net // http://diso-project.org
> > > This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
> > --
> > - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer
> > <http://www.awriterz.org>
> > MSN/GTalk/Jabber: singpol...@gmail.com
> > ICQ/AIM: 103332966
> > BLOG: http://singpolyma.net/
> --
> Chris Messina
> Citizen-Participant &
> Open Source Advocate-at-Large
> Work: http://citizenagency.com
> Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
> Cell: 412.225.1051
> IM: factoryjoe
> This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
