The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, which I can see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a URL does not return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and suggest your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry or in a distributed one. The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the distributed case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve between a series of alternative avatars for a person.
A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we simply store a users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come to hKit sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question is whether we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the resized version. I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is getting better anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the code or concept and build something better.
Best, -- Alper Çugun
Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl See my webpage and blogs at: http://www.alper.nl
Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was trying to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and the official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper Çugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, which I can > see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a URL does not > return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and suggest > your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry or in a > distributed one. > The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the distributed > case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve between a > series of alternative avatars for a person.
> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we simply store a > users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come to hKit > sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question is whether > we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the resized version. > I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is getting better > anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the code or > concept and build something better.
> Best,
> -- > Alper Çugun
> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > See my webpage and blogs at: http://www.alper.nl
> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was trying
> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and the
> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper Çugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, which I can
> > see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a URL does not
> > return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and suggest
> > your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry or in a
> > distributed one.
> > The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the distributed
> > case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve between a
> > series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we simply store a
> > users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come to hKit
> > sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question is whether
> > we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the resized version.
> > I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is getting better
> > anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the code or
> > concept and build something better.
> > Best,
> > --
> > Alper Çugun
> > Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was trying
> > to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and the
> > official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper Çugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, which I can
> > > see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a URL does not
> > > return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and suggest
> > > your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry or in a
> > > distributed one.
> > > The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the distributed
> > > case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve between a
> > > series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we simply store a
> > > users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come to hKit
> > > sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question is whether
> > > we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the resized version.
> > > I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is getting better
> > > anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the code or
> > > concept and build something better.
> > > Best,
> > > --
> > > Alper Çugun
> > > Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > > See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was trying > > to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and the > > official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper Çugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, which I can > > > see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a URL does not > > > return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and suggest > > > your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry or in a > > > distributed one. > > > The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the distributed > > > case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve between a > > > series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we simply store a > > > users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come to hKit > > > sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question is whether > > > we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the resized version. > > > I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is getting better > > > anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the code or > > > concept and build something better.
> > > Best,
> > > -- > > > Alper Çugun
> > > Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > > See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like a bad trend.
Chris
On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use the > > short url with the meta-tag.
> > or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was trying > > > to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and the > > > official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to get the > > > > details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > > >http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, which I can > > > > see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a URL does not > > > > return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and suggest > > > > your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry or in a > > > > distributed one. > > > > The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the distributed > > > > case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve between a > > > > series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we simply store a > > > > users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come to hKit > > > > sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question is whether > > > > we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the resized version. > > > > I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is getting better > > > > anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the code or > > > > concept and build something better.
> > > > Best,
> > > > -- > > > > Alper ugun
> > > > Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > > > See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
Yes, the WebClip Bookmark Icon made me think about something like
that. If you want to use all of these Icons, you have to add Pavatar,
Favicon, Webclip, ... to your header.
A Link to your hCard (vcard.photo or vcard.logo) would solve all these
Avatar/Image problems.
> I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> a bad trend.
> Chris
> On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or referenced
> > with rel=me (works)
> > On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> > > delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> > >http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use the
> > > short url with the meta-tag.
> > > or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was trying
> > > > to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and the
> > > > official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > > It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to get the
> > > > > details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> > > > >http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > > The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, which I can
> > > > > see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a URL does not
> > > > > return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and suggest
> > > > > your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry or in a
> > > > > distributed one.
> > > > > The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the distributed
> > > > > case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve between a
> > > > > series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > > A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we simply store a
> > > > > users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come to hKit
> > > > > sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question is whether
> > > > > we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the resized version.
> > > > > I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is getting better
> > > > > anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > > So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the code or
> > > > > concept and build something better.
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > --
> > > > > Alper ugun
> > > > > Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > > > > See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 pages before finding the hCard.
Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl rel-me on the same domain?
--David
On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > a bad trend.
> Chris
> On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or >> referenced >> with rel=me (works)
>> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
>>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url >>> http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use >>> the >>> short url with the meta-tag.
>>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
>>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was >>>> trying >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and >>>> the >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
>>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
>>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to >>>>> get the >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: >>>>> http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
>>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, >>>>> which I can >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a >>>>> URL does not >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and >>>>> suggest >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry >>>>> or in a >>>>> distributed one. >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the >>>>> distributed >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve >>>>> between a >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
>>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we >>>>> simply store a >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come >>>>> to hKit >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question >>>>> is whether >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the >>>>> resized version. >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is >>>>> getting better >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
>>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the >>>>> code or >>>>> concept and build something better.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> -- >>>>> Alper ugun
>>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the number if hops.
--Steve
On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > pages before finding the hCard.
> Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > rel-me on the same domain?
> --David
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > +1 to rel-me.
> > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > a bad trend.
> > Chris
> > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > >> referenced > >> with rel=me (works)
> >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > >>> http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > >>> the > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > >>>> trying > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > >>>> the > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > >>>>> get the > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > >>>>> http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > >>>>> which I can > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > >>>>> URL does not > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > >>>>> suggest > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > >>>>> or in a > >>>>> distributed one. > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > >>>>> distributed > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > >>>>> between a > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > >>>>> simply store a > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > >>>>> to hKit > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > >>>>> is whether > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > >>>>> resized version. > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > >>>>> getting better > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > >>>>> code or > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> -- > >>>>> Alper ugun
> >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
Thats why I think rel="hcard.delegate me" is a better way, so the
crawler can differ between an openid (rel="openid.delegate me"). The
advantage of rel="me" is, you can choose the hCard you want and you
can separate posted hCards from your hCards.
On 21 Jan., 20:59, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me
> (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit
> excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel-
> me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/
> site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition
> between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10
> pages before finding the hCard.
> Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl
> rel-me on the same domain?
> --David
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > +1 to rel-me.
> > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> > a bad trend.
> > Chris
> > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or
> >> referenced
> >> with rel=me (works)
> >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use
> >>> the
> >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was
> >>>> trying
> >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and
> >>>> the
> >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to
> >>>>> get the
> >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars,
> >>>>> which I can
> >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a
> >>>>> URL does not
> >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and
> >>>>> suggest
> >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry
> >>>>> or in a
> >>>>> distributed one.
> >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the
> >>>>> distributed
> >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve
> >>>>> between a
> >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we
> >>>>> simply store a
> >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come
> >>>>> to hKit
> >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question
> >>>>> is whether
> >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the
> >>>>> resized version.
> >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is
> >>>>> getting better
> >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the
> >>>>> code or
> >>>>> concept and build something better.
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Alper ugun
> >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar) when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
Chris
On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the > number if hops.
> --Steve
> On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > --David
> > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > a bad trend.
> > > Chris
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > >> referenced > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > >>> http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > >>> the > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > >>>> trying > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > >>>> the > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > >>>>> get the > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > >>>>> http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > >>>>> which I can > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > >>>>> URL does not > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > >>>>> suggest > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > >>>>> or in a > > >>>>> distributed one. > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > >>>>> distributed > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > >>>>> between a > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > >>>>> simply store a > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > >>>>> to hKit > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > >>>>> is whether > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > >>>>> resized version. > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > >>>>> getting better > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > >>>>> code or > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > >>>>> Best,
> > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> > >>>> -- > > >>>> - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer > > >>>> <http://www.awriterz.org>
> At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked
> from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of
> pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are
> found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd
> like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be
> careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar)
> when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> Chris
> On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > David,
> > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I
> > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a
> > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the
> > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption.
> > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the
> > number if hops.
> > --Steve
> > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me
> > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit
> > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel-
> > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/
> > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition
> > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10
> > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl
> > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > --David
> > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> > > > a bad trend.
> > > > Chris
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or
> > > >> referenced
> > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was
> > > >>>> trying
> > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to
> > > >>>>> get the
> > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars,
> > > >>>>> which I can
> > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a
> > > >>>>> URL does not
> > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and
> > > >>>>> suggest
> > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry
> > > >>>>> or in a
> > > >>>>> distributed one.
> > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the
> > > >>>>> distributed
> > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve
> > > >>>>> between a
> > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we
> > > >>>>> simply store a
> > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come
> > > >>>>> to hKit
> > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question
> > > >>>>> is whether
> > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the
> > > >>>>> resized version.
> > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is
> > > >>>>> getting better
> > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the
> > > >>>>> code or
> > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > >>>>> Best,
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer
> > > >>>> <http://www.awriterz.org>
> If you talk about rel="me", do you differ between <link /> and <a />?
> On 21 Jan., 21:12, "Chris Messina" <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote: > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar) > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > Chris
> > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > David,
> > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the > > > number if hops.
> > > --Steve
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > --David
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > Chris
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > > > >> referenced > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > > > >>>> trying > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > > > >>>>> get the > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > > > >>>>> which I can > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > > > >>>>> URL does not > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > > > >>>>> suggest > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > > > >>>>> or in a > > > > >>>>> distributed one. > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > > > >>>>> distributed > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > > > >>>>> between a > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > > > >>>>> simply store a > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > > > >>>>> to hKit > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > > > >>>>> is whether > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > > > >>>>> resized version. > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > > > >>>>> getting better > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > > > >>>>> code or > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > >>>>> -- > > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
I personaly would prefer <link rel="me" /> because if you use a
microformated wordpress theme and xfn in your blogroll, there is too
much data to parse.
On 21 Jan., 21:35, "Chris Messina" <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think so. I think rel-me should work whether you're talking
> about anchors or links.
> Chris
> On Jan 21, 2008 12:19 PM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you talk about rel="me", do you differ between <link /> and <a />?
> > On 21 Jan., 21:12, "Chris Messina" <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked
> > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of
> > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are
> > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd
> > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be
> > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar)
> > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > > Chris
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > David,
> > > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I
> > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a
> > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the
> > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption.
> > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the
> > > > number if hops.
> > > > --Steve
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me
> > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit
> > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel-
> > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/
> > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition
> > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10
> > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl
> > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > > --David
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or
> > > > > >> referenced
> > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> > > > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was
> > > > > >>>> trying
> > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to
> > > > > >>>>> get the
> > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> > > > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars,
> > > > > >>>>> which I can
> > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a
> > > > > >>>>> URL does not
> > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and
> > > > > >>>>> suggest
> > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry
> > > > > >>>>> or in a
> > > > > >>>>> distributed one.
> > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the
> > > > > >>>>> distributed
> > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve
> > > > > >>>>> between a
> > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we
> > > > > >>>>> simply store a
> > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come
> > > > > >>>>> to hKit
> > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question
> > > > > >>>>> is whether
> > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the
> > > > > >>>>> resized version.
> > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is
> > > > > >>>>> getting better
> > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the
> > > > > >>>>> code or
> > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > pages before finding the hCard.
> Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > rel-me on the same domain?
> --David
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > +1 to rel-me.
> > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > a bad trend.
> > Chris
> > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > >> referenced > >> with rel=me (works)
> >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > >>> http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > >>> the > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > >>>> trying > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > >>>> the > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > >>>>> get the > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > >>>>> http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > >>>>> which I can > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > >>>>> URL does not > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > >>>>> suggest > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > >>>>> or in a > >>>>> distributed one. > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > >>>>> distributed > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > >>>>> between a > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > >>>>> simply store a > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > >>>>> to hKit > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > >>>>> is whether > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > >>>>> resized version. > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > >>>>> getting better > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > >>>>> code or > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> -- > >>>>> Alper ugun
> >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
+1 hcard.photo Then maybe hcard.logo I really don't see the need to go beyond that (except, as I said, for maybe a certain depth of rel=me where appropriate)
On Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar) > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> Chris
> On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote: > > David,
> > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the > > number if hops.
> > --Steve
> > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > --David
> > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > Chris
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > > >> referenced > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > > >>> http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > > >>> the > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > > >>>> trying > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > > >>>> the > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > > >>>>> get the > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > > >>>>> http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > > >>>>> which I can > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > > >>>>> URL does not > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > > >>>>> suggest > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > > >>>>> or in a > > > >>>>> distributed one. > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > > >>>>> distributed > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > > >>>>> between a > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > > >>>>> simply store a > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > > >>>>> to hKit > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > > >>>>> is whether > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > > >>>>> resized version. > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > > >>>>> getting better > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > > >>>>> code or > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > >>>>> Best,
> > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> > > >>>> -- > > > >>>> - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer > > > >>>> <http://www.awriterz.org>
> I don't think so. I think rel-me should work whether you're talking > about anchors or links.
> Chris
> On Jan 21, 2008 12:19 PM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you talk about rel="me", do you differ between <link /> and <a />?
> > On 21 Jan., 21:12, "Chris Messina" <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked > > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of > > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are > > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd > > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be > > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar) > > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > > Chris
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > David,
> > > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I > > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a > > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the > > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. > > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the > > > > number if hops.
> > > > --Steve
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > > --David
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > > > > >> referenced > > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > > > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > > > > >>> the > > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > > > > >>>> trying > > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > > > > >>>>> get the > > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > > > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > > > > >>>>> which I can > > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > > > > >>>>> URL does not > > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > > > > >>>>> suggest > > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > > > > >>>>> or in a > > > > > >>>>> distributed one. > > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > > > > >>>>> distributed > > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > > > > >>>>> between a > > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > > > > >>>>> simply store a > > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > > > > >>>>> to hKit > > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > > > > >>>>> is whether > > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > > > > >>>>> resized version. > > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > > > > >>>>> getting better > > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > > > > >>>>> code or > > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > > >>>>> -- > > > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
You would never link to your delegated OpenID with rel=me... the whole point of delegation is to hide that URL.
Besides, hcards are not meant to have their own page. They may not be on the main page, but it makes little sense to say 'this is my hCard page' when it's likely a lot of things and just has an hCard.
Besides, if you're using rel=me you're likely using hCard most of the time.
On Jan 21, 2008 3:05 PM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thats why I think rel="hcard.delegate me" is a better way, so the > crawler can differ between an openid (rel="openid.delegate me"). The > advantage of rel="me" is, you can choose the hCard you want and you > can separate posted hCards from your hCards.
> On 21 Jan., 20:59, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote: > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > --David
> > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > a bad trend.
> > > Chris
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > >> referenced > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > >>> the > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > >>>> trying > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > >>>> the > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > >>>>> get the > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > >>>>> which I can > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > >>>>> URL does not > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > >>>>> suggest > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > >>>>> or in a > > >>>>> distributed one. > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > >>>>> distributed > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > >>>>> between a > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > >>>>> simply store a > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > >>>>> to hKit > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > >>>>> is whether > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > >>>>> resized version. > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > >>>>> getting better > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > >>>>> code or > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > >>>>> Best,
> > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> > >>>> -- > > >>>> - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer > > >>>> <http://www.awriterz.org>
If you have a look at http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/yadis/ then
you can see an example of using rel="me" in the delegate (but in the
case of myopenid, it doesn't matter because the public profile uses an
hCard).
But you are right, rel=me would be the best solution I think
On 21 Jan., 22:17, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You would never link to your delegated OpenID with rel=me... the whole
> point of delegation is to hide that URL.
> Besides, hcards are not meant to have their own page. They may not be
> on the main page, but it makes little sense to say 'this is my hCard
> page' when it's likely a lot of things and just has an hCard.
> Besides, if you're using rel=me you're likely using hCard most of the time.
> On Jan 21, 2008 3:05 PM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thats why I think rel="hcard.delegate me" is a better way, so the
> > crawler can differ between an openid (rel="openid.delegate me"). The
> > advantage of rel="me" is, you can choose the hCard you want and you
> > can separate posted hCards from your hCards.
> > On 21 Jan., 20:59, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me
> > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit
> > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel-
> > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/
> > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition
> > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10
> > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl
> > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > --David
> > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> > > > a bad trend.
> > > > Chris
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or
> > > >> referenced
> > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was
> > > >>>> trying
> > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to
> > > >>>>> get the
> > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars,
> > > >>>>> which I can
> > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a
> > > >>>>> URL does not
> > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and
> > > >>>>> suggest
> > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry
> > > >>>>> or in a
> > > >>>>> distributed one.
> > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the
> > > >>>>> distributed
> > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve
> > > >>>>> between a
> > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we
> > > >>>>> simply store a
> > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come
> > > >>>>> to hKit
> > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question
> > > >>>>> is whether
> > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the
> > > >>>>> resized version.
> > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is
> > > >>>>> getting better
> > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the
> > > >>>>> code or
> > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > >>>>> Best,
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> - Stephen Paul Weber, Amateur Writer
> > > >>>> <http://www.awriterz.org>
Something completely different... i tried the plugin together with my
hCard-Commenting plugin and I get a fatal error because both scripts
are using hKit.
if (!class_exists('hKit')) {
include_once(dirname(__FILE__) . '/hkit.class.php');
}
Using this, solves the problem.
On 21 Jan., 22:22, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you have a look athttp://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/yadis/then > you can see an example of using rel="me" in the delegate (but in the
> case of myopenid, it doesn't matter because the public profile uses an
> hCard).
> But you are right, rel=me would be the best solution I think
> On 21 Jan., 22:17, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You would never link to your delegated OpenID with rel=me... the whole
> > point of delegation is to hide that URL.
> > Besides, hcards are not meant to have their own page. They may not be
> > on the main page, but it makes little sense to say 'this is my hCard
> > page' when it's likely a lot of things and just has an hCard.
> > Besides, if you're using rel=me you're likely using hCard most of the time.
> > On Jan 21, 2008 3:05 PM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Thats why I think rel="hcard.delegate me" is a better way, so the
> > > crawler can differ between an openid (rel="openid.delegate me"). The
> > > advantage of rel="me" is, you can choose the hCard you want and you
> > > can separate posted hCards from your hCards.
> > > On 21 Jan., 20:59, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me
> > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit
> > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel-
> > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/
> > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition
> > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10
> > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl
> > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > --David
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > Chris
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or
> > > > >> referenced
> > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> > > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was
> > > > >>>> trying
> > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to
> > > > >>>>> get the
> > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> > > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars,
> > > > >>>>> which I can
> > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a
> > > > >>>>> URL does not
> > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and
> > > > >>>>> suggest
> > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry
> > > > >>>>> or in a
> > > > >>>>> distributed one.
> > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the
> > > > >>>>> distributed
> > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve
> > > > >>>>> between a
> > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we
> > > > >>>>> simply store a
> > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come
> > > > >>>>> to hKit
> > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question
> > > > >>>>> is whether
> > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the
> > > > >>>>> resized version.
> > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is
> > > > >>>>> getting better
> > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the
> > > > >>>>> code or
> > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
I think we can start with this and get a working demo going. We should be somewhat lenient and pragmatic for the near term (since there are many more avatars in the wild NOT marked up this way), but when it comes to a more formal spec, I agree that we should rely on hcard primarily, and then follow at most one hop to any rel-me link listed in a page searching for other hcard avatars.
I believe that Twitter, M.agnolia and Flickr are all good examples of how this data can be marked up and displayed, and if anyone links to them with a rel-me link, we'd hit an avatar.
Chris
On Jan 21, 2008 1:14 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 hcard.photo > Then maybe hcard.logo > I really don't see the need to go beyond that (except, as I said, for > maybe a certain depth of rel=me where appropriate)
> On Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote: > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar) > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > Chris
> > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > David,
> > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the > > > number if hops.
> > > --Steve
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > --David
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > Chris
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > > > >> referenced > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > > > >>> http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > > > >>>> trying > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > > > >>>>> get the > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > > > >>>>> http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > > > >>>>> which I can > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > > > >>>>> URL does not > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > > > >>>>> suggest > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > > > >>>>> or in a > > > > >>>>> distributed one. > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > > > >>>>> distributed > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > > > >>>>> between a > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > > > >>>>> simply store a > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > > > >>>>> to hKit > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > > > >>>>> is whether > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > > > >>>>> resized version. > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > > > >>>>> getting better > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > > > >>>>> code or > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > >>>>> -- > > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
Which is why diso-profile uses hCard as the only source for importing avatars. My avatar_from_url plugin is a bit more greedy (as you said, hCard is not so universal yet) -- of course, that's what solutions like AllAvatars are about -- making it work wherever possible by integrating all the plugins, but I digress...
On a related note, should diso-profile provide a template tag for outputting the avatar it imports? I never bothered because AllAvatars supports it internally, but not too many people are going to want to use AllAvatars...
On Jan 21, 2008 4:41 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think we can start with this and get a working demo going. We should > be somewhat lenient and pragmatic for the near term (since there are > many more avatars in the wild NOT marked up this way), but when it > comes to a more formal spec, I agree that we should rely on hcard > primarily, and then follow at most one hop to any rel-me link listed > in a page searching for other hcard avatars.
> I believe that Twitter, M.agnolia and Flickr are all good examples of > how this data can be marked up and displayed, and if anyone links to > them with a rel-me link, we'd hit an avatar.
> Chris
> On Jan 21, 2008 1:14 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > +1 hcard.photo > > Then maybe hcard.logo > > I really don't see the need to go beyond that (except, as I said, for > > maybe a certain depth of rel=me where appropriate)
> > On Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked > > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of > > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are > > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd > > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be > > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar) > > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > > Chris
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > David,
> > > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I > > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a > > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the > > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. > > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the > > > > number if hops.
> > > > --Steve
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > > --David
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > > > > >> referenced > > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > > > > >>> http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > > > > >>> the > > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > > > > >>>> trying > > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > > > > >>>>> get the > > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > > > > >>>>> http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > > > > >>>>> which I can > > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > > > > >>>>> URL does not > > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > > > > >>>>> suggest > > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > > > > >>>>> or in a > > > > > >>>>> distributed one. > > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > > > > >>>>> distributed > > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > > > > >>>>> between a > > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > > > > >>>>> simply store a > > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > > > > >>>>> to hKit > > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > > > > >>>>> is whether > > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > > > > >>>>> resized version. > > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > > > > >>>>> getting better > > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > > > > >>>>> code or > > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > > >>>>> -- > > > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl > > > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
AllAvatars is devenitively a step in the right direction, but I think
its a bit too static... if anyone writes a new avatar plugin, you have
to edit your code, to implement the new functions... I think a better
way is to provide some kind of universal avatar api which all avatar
plugins could use.
On 21 Jan., 23:21, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Which is why diso-profile uses hCard as the only source for importing
> avatars. My avatar_from_url plugin is a bit more greedy (as you said,
> hCard is not so universal yet) -- of course, that's what solutions
> like AllAvatars are about -- making it work wherever possible by
> integrating all the plugins, but I digress...
> On a related note, should diso-profile provide a template tag for
> outputting the avatar it imports? I never bothered because AllAvatars
> supports it internally, but not too many people are going to want to
> use AllAvatars...
> On Jan 21, 2008 4:41 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think we can start with this and get a working demo going. We should
> > be somewhat lenient and pragmatic for the near term (since there are
> > many more avatars in the wild NOT marked up this way), but when it
> > comes to a more formal spec, I agree that we should rely on hcard
> > primarily, and then follow at most one hop to any rel-me link listed
> > in a page searching for other hcard avatars.
> > I believe that Twitter, M.agnolia and Flickr are all good examples of
> > how this data can be marked up and displayed, and if anyone links to
> > them with a rel-me link, we'd hit an avatar.
> > Chris
> > On Jan 21, 2008 1:14 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > +1 hcard.photo
> > > Then maybe hcard.logo
> > > I really don't see the need to go beyond that (except, as I said, for
> > > maybe a certain depth of rel=me where appropriate)
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked
> > > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of
> > > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > > > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are
> > > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd
> > > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be
> > > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar)
> > > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > > > Chris
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > David,
> > > > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I
> > > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a
> > > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the
> > > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption.
> > > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the
> > > > > number if hops.
> > > > > --Steve
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me
> > > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit
> > > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel-
> > > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/
> > > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition
> > > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10
> > > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl
> > > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > > > --David
> > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> > > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> > > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or
> > > > > > >> referenced
> > > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> > > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> > > > > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use
> > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was
> > > > > > >>>> trying
> > > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to
> > > > > > >>>>> get the
> > > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> > > > > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars,
> > > > > > >>>>> which I can
> > > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a
> > > > > > >>>>> URL does not
> > > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and
> > > > > > >>>>> suggest
> > > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry
> > > > > > >>>>> or in a
> > > > > > >>>>> distributed one.
> > > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the
> > > > > > >>>>> distributed
> > > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve
> > > > > > >>>>> between a
> > > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we
> > > > > > >>>>> simply store a
> > > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come
> > > > > > >>>>> to hKit
> > > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question
> > > > > > >>>>> is whether
> > > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the
> > > > > > >>>>> resized version.
> > > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is
> > > > > > >>>>> getting better
> > > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the
> > > > > > >>>>> code or
> > > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> > > > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>> Alper ugun
> > > > > > >>>>> Mobile: +31-6-24553306 * E-mail: em...@alper.nl
> > > > > > >>>>> See my webpage and blogs at:http://www.alper.nl
> AllAvatars is devenitively a step in the right direction, but I think > its a bit too static... if anyone writes a new avatar plugin, you have > to edit your code, to implement the new functions... I think a better > way is to provide some kind of universal avatar api which all avatar > plugins could use.
> On 21 Jan., 23:21, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Which is why diso-profile uses hCard as the only source for importing > > avatars. My avatar_from_url plugin is a bit more greedy (as you said, > > hCard is not so universal yet) -- of course, that's what solutions > > like AllAvatars are about -- making it work wherever possible by > > integrating all the plugins, but I digress...
> > On a related note, should diso-profile provide a template tag for > > outputting the avatar it imports? I never bothered because AllAvatars > > supports it internally, but not too many people are going to want to > > use AllAvatars...
> > On Jan 21, 2008 4:41 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think we can start with this and get a working demo going. We should > > > be somewhat lenient and pragmatic for the near term (since there are > > > many more avatars in the wild NOT marked up this way), but when it > > > comes to a more formal spec, I agree that we should rely on hcard > > > primarily, and then follow at most one hop to any rel-me link listed > > > in a page searching for other hcard avatars.
> > > I believe that Twitter, M.agnolia and Flickr are all good examples of > > > how this data can be marked up and displayed, and if anyone links to > > > them with a rel-me link, we'd hit an avatar.
> > > Chris
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 1:14 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > +1 hcard.photo > > > > Then maybe hcard.logo > > > > I really don't see the need to go beyond that (except, as I said, for > > > > maybe a certain depth of rel=me where appropriate)
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked > > > > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of > > > > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > > > > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are > > > > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd > > > > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be > > > > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar) > > > > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > > > > Chris
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > David,
> > > > > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I > > > > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a > > > > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > > > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the > > > > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption. > > > > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the > > > > > > number if hops.
> > > > > > --Steve
> > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me > > > > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit > > > > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel- > > > > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/ > > > > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition > > > > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10 > > > > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl > > > > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > > > > --David
> > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site > > > > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like > > > > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or > > > > > > > >> referenced > > > > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid > > > > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url > > > > > > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use > > > > > > > >>> the > > > > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was > > > > > > > >>>> trying > > > > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and > > > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to > > > > > > > >>>>> get the > > > > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on: > > > > > > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars, > > > > > > > >>>>> which I can > > > > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a > > > > > > > >>>>> URL does not > > > > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and > > > > > > > >>>>> suggest > > > > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry > > > > > > > >>>>> or in a > > > > > > > >>>>> distributed one. > > > > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the > > > > > > > >>>>> distributed > > > > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve > > > > > > > >>>>> between a > > > > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we > > > > > > > >>>>> simply store a > > > > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come > > > > > > > >>>>> to hKit > > > > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question > > > > > > > >>>>> is whether > > > > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the > > > > > > > >>>>> resized version. > > > > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is > > > > > > > >>>>> getting better > > > > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the > > > > > > > >>>>> code or > > > > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
> I've thought about that -- something along the lines of what my XRDS
> plugin does, just haven't implemented it yet :)
> On Jan 21, 2008 5:35 PM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > AllAvatars is devenitively a step in the right direction, but I think
> > its a bit too static... if anyone writes a new avatar plugin, you have
> > to edit your code, to implement the new functions... I think a better
> > way is to provide some kind of universal avatar api which all avatar
> > plugins could use.
> > On 21 Jan., 23:21, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Which is why diso-profile uses hCard as the only source for importing
> > > avatars. My avatar_from_url plugin is a bit more greedy (as you said,
> > > hCard is not so universal yet) -- of course, that's what solutions
> > > like AllAvatars are about -- making it work wherever possible by
> > > integrating all the plugins, but I digress...
> > > On a related note, should diso-profile provide a template tag for
> > > outputting the avatar it imports? I never bothered because AllAvatars
> > > supports it internally, but not too many people are going to want to
> > > use AllAvatars...
> > > On Jan 21, 2008 4:41 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I think we can start with this and get a working demo going. We should
> > > > be somewhat lenient and pragmatic for the near term (since there are
> > > > many more avatars in the wild NOT marked up this way), but when it
> > > > comes to a more formal spec, I agree that we should rely on hcard
> > > > primarily, and then follow at most one hop to any rel-me link listed
> > > > in a page searching for other hcard avatars.
> > > > I believe that Twitter, M.agnolia and Flickr are all good examples of
> > > > how this data can be marked up and displayed, and if anyone links to
> > > > them with a rel-me link, we'd hit an avatar.
> > > > Chris
> > > > On Jan 21, 2008 1:14 PM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > +1 hcard.photo
> > > > > Then maybe hcard.logo
> > > > > I really don't see the need to go beyond that (except, as I said, for
> > > > > maybe a certain depth of rel=me where appropriate)
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 3:12 PM, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > At the same time, I do think something like rel="avatar me" linked
> > > > > > from a vcard.photo or vcard.logo object would be a good way of
> > > > > > pointing to a larger version of an avatar.
> > > > > > So, primarily you'd look for photos embedded in hcards. If none are
> > > > > > found, perhaps search for rel~=me+avatar... I dunno. Obviously I'd
> > > > > > like to support efficient avatar discovery, but I think we should be
> > > > > > careful not to just invent a new series of conventions (like Pavatar)
> > > > > > when existing solutions haven't even been widely deployed.
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:04 PM, Steve Ivy <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > David,
> > > > > > > Chris and I had this same discussion, more or less, a week ago. I
> > > > > > > think it would be a "best practice" to limit rel-me spidering to a
> > > > > > > couple hops in any direction. Meaning:
> > > > > > > It's not something we can enforce, but if we document it and the
> > > > > > > reasons for it (race conditions, etc) we might see some adoption.
> > > > > > > Also, enforcing reciprocal rel=me links can help in limiting the
> > > > > > > number if hops.
> > > > > > > --Steve
> > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 12:59 PM, David Recordon <drecor...@sixapart.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Just out of scalability though, having a blog crawl rel-me
> > > > > > > > (potentially multiple off of the URL the commenter leaves) seems a bit
> > > > > > > > excessive. I think it is fine if some plugins do decide to follow rel-
> > > > > > > > me, but that a commenter won't be able to guarantee that every blog/
> > > > > > > > site they comment on will do it. There also is a race condition
> > > > > > > > between the person leaving a short comment and the site crawling 10
> > > > > > > > pages before finding the hCard.
> > > > > > > > Maybe one compromise would be when looking for hCards to only crawl
> > > > > > > > rel-me on the same domain?
> > > > > > > > --David
> > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Chris Messina wrote:
> > > > > > > > > +1 to rel-me.
> > > > > > > > > I worry about all the different ways cropping up for referencing site
> > > > > > > > > icons these days (i.e. the iPod Touch/iPhone custom icon). Seems like
> > > > > > > > > a bad trend.
> > > > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM, Stephen Paul Weber <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> An hcard should either be on the main page (recommended) or
> > > > > > > > >> referenced
> > > > > > > > >> with rel=me (works)
> > > > > > > > >> On Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM, Pfefferle <pfeffe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> It would be also a good idea, to build something like the openid
> > > > > > > > >>> delegate header for an hCard, for example
> > > > > > > > >>> that makes it easier for people which have their hCard on a long url
> > > > > > > > >>>http://example.org/user/me/home/myhcard.html, because the can use
> > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > >>> short url with the meta-tag.
> > > > > > > > >>> or we could use the "author" tag defined in HTML 1.0
> > > > > > > > >>> On 21 Jan., 15:20, "Stephen Paul Weber" <singpol...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>> Heh, excellent, I think this is what some people thought I was
> > > > > > > > >>>> trying
> > > > > > > > >>>> to accomplish with my avatar-from-url plugin. I'll add this and
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>> official gravatar plugin to AllAvatars next release.
> > > > > > > > >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 9:04 AM, Alper ugun <al...@alper.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>> Hey,
> > > > > > > > >>>>> I've been following this space for a while and I just released a
> > > > > > > > >>>>> plugin
> > > > > > > > >>>>> called hAvatar here:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>http://fourstarters.com/2008/01/20/havatar-wordpress-plugin/
> > > > > > > > >>>>> It's pretty tiny as it is, but it took some time and effort to
> > > > > > > > >>>>> get the
> > > > > > > > >>>>> details working properly. I saw the spec up on:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>http://factoryjoe.pbwiki.com/wp-openid-avatars
> > > > > > > > >>>>> The spec says something about replacing or suggesting avatars,
> > > > > > > > >>>>> which I can
> > > > > > > > >>>>> see a vaguely interesting use case for. So when a user with a
> > > > > > > > >>>>> URL does not
> > > > > > > > >>>>> return a valid avatar image, you can click the default image and
> > > > > > > > >>>>> suggest
> > > > > > > > >>>>> your own alternative which is stored either in a local registry
> > > > > > > > >>>>> or in a
> > > > > > > > >>>>> distributed one.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> The local case would be simple but I don't have a clue how the
> > > > > > > > >>>>> distributed
> > > > > > > > >>>>> case should work or how other avatar consumers should resolve
> > > > > > > > >>>>> between a
> > > > > > > > >>>>> series of alternative avatars for a person.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> A subscription to the image does not seem interesting as we
> > > > > > > > >>>>> simply store a
> > > > > > > > >>>>> users URL and parse that for an image src. Caching should come
> > > > > > > > >>>>> to hKit
> > > > > > > > >>>>> sometime soon, so that won't be an issue, but a thorny question
> > > > > > > > >>>>> is whether
> > > > > > > > >>>>> we should resize the avatar image server side and cache the
> > > > > > > > >>>>> resized version.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> I don't see one popular use case and client side resizing is
> > > > > > > > >>>>> getting better
> > > > > > > > >>>>> anyway, so I'm not building anything for that right now.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> So suggestions are welcome, and you are also welcome to take the
> > > > > > > > >>>>> code or
> > > > > > > > >>>>> concept and build something better.
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