Fwd: Parable - The Foolish Father
Gabrielle Dean
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Pamela O,cunneen" <pame...@btinternet.com>
> Date: 5 July 2009 12:22:07 AM
> To: "Gabrielle Dean" <gabby...@westnet.com.au>
> Subject: Re: Parable - The Foolish Father
>
> DEar Gabby, this parable puzzled me for a long time. I used to side
> with the elder son and saw the father as being extremely unfair.
>
> In recent years, as I have grown a bit more, I see it differently.
> Like all of Jesus' parables I don't think it is not about social
> customs or material things. His stories may cut across the customs
> and ideas of the day but that is not their point. I think we have to
> remember that Jesus was what would be called in Eastern traditions a
> 'Master' or an 'Avatar'. He was One with God, and lived in a
> constant state of mystical enlightenment and Union. All of his
> parables have a mystical meaning, - he himself knew that most people
> are not there yet, and said 'He that has ears to hear, let him hear.!
> :
>
> While I don't claim to have plumbed the depths of this one , it now
> seems to me that the father in the story(The Father) is absolutly
> right when he says, to the eldest son, 'What are you fussing about:
> Everything I have is yours!' We all fail to realise that we are not
> only With God , but In God all of the time. The Course in Miracles
> says over and over again that we never left our Source.We only think
> we did. The Eldest Son did not leave the Father. The younger son
> placed himself in a state of separation and imagined that he had cut
> himself off from the Father. - just as we do every time we imagine we
> have 'sinned' or even get all het up about material concerns.
>
> In fact we, like the Elder Son never left. We are constantly filled
> with God. - only we don't realise it most of the time. There is so
> much God that we are in God, surrounded with God, overflowing with
> God. at every moment, in Time and outside Time. When we return to
> this knowledge, there is the kind of rejoicing in heaven that is
> expressed by the killing of the fatted calf.
>
> I now see it as a story of our souls, as we live in a state of imagied
> separation, make ourselves miserable in various ways, and then return
> to our real state - the state of the Eldest Son who was filled with
> God all the time.
>
> Much love Pamela
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Gabrielle Dean
>> To: discussion
>> Cc: Clarissa Machin ; Susan Grace ; Feonagh ; Rhonda Clegg ; Pamela
>> Cuneen ; Gillian Clark ; Josey Derossi ; Ali Drake ; Maggie Brett ;
>> Angela Wilson ; Christina Chandler ; Sue Kenworthy ; Alison Kershaw ;
>> Paul Roberts ; Jeremy Noble ; Beryl Hogan
>> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:12 AM
>> Subject: Parable - The Foolish Father
>>
>> This is from a website, which I unfortunately didn't make a note of
>> when I copied it. Shouldn't be hard to find again on google.
>>
>>
>> The Foolish Father
>>
>> Luke 15.31-32 You are always here with me, and everything I have is
>> yours. But we had to celebrate and be happy because your brother was
>> dead and now he is alive.
>>
>> The parable of the Prodigal Son has a long and chequered history. For
>> most of the time since it was first interpreted by the author of
>> Luke's Gospel, it has been seen as a call by Jesus for repentance
>> from a sinful lifestyle (the younger son). He contrasts with wicked
>> people who refuse the Good News (the older son).
>>
>> Many now think that a better interpretation is to see a forgiving God
>> in the father. We will always be welcomed home (the Church) if we
>> turn our backs on loose living (the younger son). There are those who
>> angrily think the whole Christian thing epitomises blind error (the
>> older son). The truth is much more dramatic.
>>
>>
>> Many in the 21st century are unable to hear this parable as Jesus
>> first told it because their culture is too different from that of the
>> first century. There are those in the older world who stand a better
>> chance because their cultures haven't changed that much in the last
>> two millennia.
>>
>> The first hearers of this parable would have been shocked at the
>> father's behaviour. Their culture, based on tradition and the Hebrew
>> scriptures, warned specifically against any man giving away his
>> inheritance while still alive. The elder son would inherit two-thirds
>> of his estate. The younger son or sons would split the remaining
>> third. Women got nothing. These rules were in place not to benefit
>> the sons but to protect the family. No sound father in Jesus' time
>> would have accepted the insulting tone of the older brother. He would
>> have forced his son to capitulate and come to the party. Instead, in
>> the parable it is the father who capitulates. He demeans himself
>> intolerably when he pleads with his son instead of disciplining him.
>>
>> The younger son was a scoundrel, the elder an upstart, and the
>> father a fool. All three put at risk the extended family. Life in
>> those times was precarious enough without such self-centred nonsense.
>> Worse still, this was a relatively wealthy family. How could the
>> father jeopardise its security by being so soft?
>>
>> Those listening to Jesus would have been forcibly struck by the
>> parable. They would have asked themselves what Jesus was getting at.
>> What would have happened when the father died, for instance?
>>
>> Every preacher at this point is tempted to take a next step by
>> asking, "What is the point of the parable?" That Jesus intended his
>> listeners to reflect on themselves and their situations in the light
>> of the parable is, I think, without doubt. But it's highly
>> questionable that he intended to make a specific point.
>>
>> What does the wastrel son say to you? Which of the three characters
>> do you see yourself as? Should you be more pliable in your life? Or
>> are you called on to get tough with others?
>>
Kim Kemp
Dear Pamela,
Thank you for your contribution (from afar) to our discussion..........it does draw us nearer...........
I like your interpretation of the Prodigal Son being the story of ourselves being ‘with God’ or feeling estranged from Him. How seldom we realise that we have it all......and how often we choose to separate and be apart, forgetting, as you say, that we are ‘in God’ all of the time. It the process of ‘coming home to the Father’ that is the key in the story for me............the younger son (we who have strayed)........has learned and gained insight which then results in repenting (turning around) and heading back to the Source. To be received with joy and celebration is the hope of all who feel alienated........
X Kim
Gabrielle Dean
about this parable. Philip Yancey talks about it in 'What's so amazing
about Grace', especially in the chapter called 'The Lovesick Father'. I
find Yancey can be a bit Americanly-annoying - twee anecdotes with
those moralistic 'you see what I mean' endings. However, from this
chapter and the chapter called 'The New Math of Grace' and (I think)
'The Unfairness of Grace', I got an overwhelming feeling that the whole
the Kingdom of God thing is about God's complete and unconditional love
for his/her/its/ God's creation, rather than being about whether we
accept him/her/it or not. It 'pours forth as light from the sun whether
received, or rejected or ignored', as is said at Contemplative Prayer.
(Or as Peter often says, especially at Christmas, the gift, everything,
has already been given.)
At our Parable discussion group we threw around the idea of a
transaction - does the the father accept the son back because he "came
to himself' and repented. But the text says the father was already
waiting and 'while he was still far off', rushed out and embraced the
son before the son said his prepared speech. It seems to me the father
had never given up on the son (somewhere I've got a prayer or a quote
about God forgiving us even before we've sinned - might be from
Holloway's Forgiving the Unforgivable).
The story also has echoes for me of Siddhartha (I read the Herman Hesse
version), his carousing lifestyle before finally coming to find the
Middle Way. (except that he has a period of over-the-top self-denial,
similar to self-flagellation or starvation before he sees the excess in
both.)
A final thought, Peter said that he read somewhere that some great wise
theologian if he had to nominate one story in the whole of Scripture
that showed us the nature of God it would be this story.
(And another final thought: Clarissa, if you write some thing and press
'reply all', I think it will just go to the Parable group, not 'out
there', since you aren't on the discussion group.)
Gabby
PS: The really disturbing thing though ('The Unfairness of Grace') is
that the love of God extends to everyone equally, as Yancey says "there
is nothing that I can do to make God love me more and nothing I can do
to make God love me less', meaning God loves murderers as much as me!
There's another whole discussion in this idea which is so different
from the way humans love each other (in a conditional, transactional
way, you-scratch-my-back).
Gabrielle Dean
I like all those musings about the God's-eye-view: 'does the question
of forgiveness even arise for God?' Dichotomies like the Unforgiven vs
the Forgiven, the Repentant vs Unrepentant, (and trichotomies? - the
God the Bad and the Ugly) are perhaps human ways of sorting and
categorising, born of necessity for survival. Someone said once that
humans are 'meaning-making animals' - we see patterns and try to make
meaning - but I would think that most animals do this: a plate + a
person with a tin = dinner, to my cat. So we are 'programmed' to sort
things. The next step seems to be 'Us and them' sorting, once again
maybe born of survival needs (important to recognise threatening tiger
or Neanderthal with a club as different from us), but when this
category becomes overlaid with moral rightness and wrongness and any
other form of superiority, I guess that's where trouble starts and
things get dangerous.
> "This is a tricky thing for me to say, since, as a Journey Therapist"
> - I imagine it's partly, as you say, getting people to let go or
> release, but also trying to get people to recognise the lack of
> separation from God. Which brings me full circle to one of my
> transformative moments which I have mentioned on a number of
> occasions: 'You are precious in my sight and honoured and I love you'
> Isaiah 43:4.
But on the other hand, isn't it vital that we do separate, at least
from our parents and certainly from our childlike view of God? This is
one reading of the Adam and Eve story, that it's a story of maturing?
Am I now getting confused? Now that never happens!
I have just compiled all of the discussion on this parable and it has
got to four pages. Isn't that fantastic!
Love
Gabby
>
On 6 Jul 2009, at 5:42 PM, Pamela O,cunneen wrote:
> DEar Gabby, thank you .
>
> So much in this parable, and it is one I had just found rather
> irritating for most of my youthful years. With regard to God's
> unconditional love, and whether it has anything to do with whether we
> accept it or not, I like the image that someone used to compare the
> situation to standing a jug under a waterfall. The waterfall is always
> there, gushing all around the jug, but if the jug is turned upside
> down, it can't be filled with water. I suspect it's a bit like that.
>
> Yes I am sure God' forgives' us before we have sinned, but I am
> equally sure that 'forgiveness' is not what we have been led to
> believe it is - the 'I don't forgive you, I can't forgive you, you
> have done something bad to me and therefore I forgive you ' stuff.
> In a state of unconditional love, does the question of forgiveness
> even arise for God, or for those who have attained this state while
> still in a bodily form? Seeing things from the God's eye view, is it
> even possible to step into the state of separation that makes
> forgiveness as we know it, a necessity?This is a tricky thing for me
> to say, since, as a Journey Therapist I spend a lot of time bringing
> people to a state of forgiveness about life traumas, but I would
> rather talk about 'letting go' or 'releasing'. - which, of course
> releases everyone held in the network of negativity, indluding, and
> particularly - ourselves.
>
> And 'God loves murderers as much as me' . Yes, absolutely. That's it
> !!!
>
> Much love to everyone. Pamela
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Gabrielle Dean
>> To: discussio...@googlegroups.com
>> Cc: 'Gillian Clark' ; 'Rhonda Clegg' ; 'Maggie Brett' ; 'Angela
>> Wilson' ; Pamela Cuneen ; 'Clarissa Machin' ; Colin Kenworthy ; 'Sue
>> Kenworthy'
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 2:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [DiscussSt Pauls:2308] Re: Fwd: Parable - The Foolish
>> Father
>>
Gabrielle Dean
shapely lady when he wrote it?
Love th links it picks up in what people have been saying:
divine grace - what's so amazing about grace?
cascading love/cascading divine grace - beautiful images and picks up
Pamela's waterfall and jug story
> true repentance - Pamela's re-pentire, 'turn again', (as we've also
> heard often in sermons too) - 'true' being fairly crucial here
> Reaping: Drawing a long bow here, but 'reaping' might pick up some
> other connections with the Sower, especially if we consider 'hearts
> softened, minds opened', as a parallel with what happens to a seed in
> the ground once it gets water on it and breaks its dormancy.
Is 'Abundant' one of the best words in scripture? If the Prodigal Son
is the story of what God's love and grace can be summed up in, I wonder
if abundant is the nutshell word? now there's a statement to get people
going......
>
>
On 7 Jul 2009, at 10:26 AM, peter wrote:
> Looking more into the parable... and the thread of forgiveness.....
>
> I found this clever poem on the net....
>
>
> Psalm 86:5
> For You, Lord, are good, and ready to forgive, and
> abundant in mercy to all those who call upon You.
>
> Redeemed forever now and inwardly renewed,
> heroically ransomed although undeserving still,
> divine grace cascading love abounding among
> rescued souls, opened minds, softened hearts
> reaping genuine faith and repentance true;
> extending unmerited favor, lavishing
> mercies upon mercies interposing
> full and final pardon amply
> erased all sins presently
> here and now
> forgiven
> now and here
> presently sins all erased
> amply; pardon, final and full
> interposing mercies upon mercies
> lavishing favor unmerited, extending
> true repentance and faith genuine, reaping
> hearts softened, minds opened, souls rescued
> among abounding love cascading divine grace;
> still undeserving although ransomed heroically,
> renewed inwardly and now forever redeemed!
> clever... as it is also a palindrome
>
>
> Peace & Love
> peter H
Gabrielle Dean
my crucial typing and mouse-conntrolling fingers - is it a sign for me
to shut up and listen?