SWITCH-Runner Spiraling downward...

[greg]

"all a switch (always right, never wrong, must be in control) wants is
to be
knocked on their ass."

"SWITCHES.... create a hell, then blame those who are in close
proximity."

SO... What to do?!

(Because if you ktota, it just gives them a chance to blame someone
for doing something bad to them.)

I, like TP, have a few in my family (and once in a while, I get back
in that a little when I'm around them.

-=

Someone's life is going to the pits; has been for years, but it will
get nasty this summer.

Possible money problems, almost certainly a divorce, fighting over the
children, maybe even violence...

Neither want it, but...

Neither willing to do counseling, befcause... switch! I suggested/
volunteered energy work (, and perhaps the fear of possibly getting
better...?) Anyway, that resulted in big problems, not that that will
stop me from bringing it up again, given the consequences soon to
come.

Same someone's already been going downhill with other family members
over the years.

Someone picked up some bad habits and can't forgive the people who had
them, so they stay... (that's my take on it).

How do you teach forgiveness from a "practical"/ more non-religious
frame to someone who needs it and believes in repentance and
forgiveness? (And perhaps without talking much about DHawkins...)

Which recordings might snap a switch-runner out of it, gently knocking
them down and sitting on their chest until they decide it ain't worth
it running switch anymore?

Where's your your-product-for-$$ sale? ;)

[Mr. Twenty Twenty]

Hi Greg,

Posted a reply here:

http://enlightenedapproach.com/forums/index.php/topic,152.msg540.html#msg540

Thanks for the conversation!

Whooo yah!

20/20

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[Jeannine]

Greg,

Here's my question: What did you want with that person anyways?
Because there appears to be SOME kinda involvement.

I once discovered the great myth of human tragedy... and the truth.

It ain't worth it.

--Jeannine

http://theloveoffreedom.wordpress.com

[Oinarp Mot]

Jeanine and Greg,

Earlier today I had written or as we say in Jersey, I wrote
a two pager about how I attacked a SWITCH and without
meaning too notice they took on SIMO.

As Twenty suggested. I burned her/him out.
They deserved everything they had gotten and more.
I am still dealing with the Karmic reprecussions though
(Jeanine).

Now, was it worth it?
I was no longer willing to live with the situation as it was.
I was willing to destroy whatever relationships I had with
these two people.

I believe in the short run it was detrimental to my well being.
In the long run I had to stand up to these two assholes and
give them the what-for.

Of course they came back and tried to make me wrong later but...
They changed, and I am not sure whether it was because of what
I said or because I changed and wouldn't put up with it any longer?

Either way, in my case, WORTH IT!

Tp

PS. They are relatives I will have to deal with for the next three
years,
i.e., december 21, 2012.

PS. No harm in letting someone have it every once in awhile.
It flexes one's courage and keeps the other people honest.

[greg]

Oh, but it is. Especially when it's family. Even when all they can
run is switch. ;)

The truth.

-=-=-=

[Jeannine]

Tom, Simpler, What did you want with this person?

There's no harm in breaking off relationships. It's that lovely idea
of sacrifice and drama that people swallow like chocolate that drives
a lot of people. I always accept that people can change (and often
do, over time, especially if they're still pretty young). However, if
there's too much drama in hoping for change, trying to point to change
people don't want to make, or even in expecting someone to be
honest... Just let it go. Remove your connection to them. Why
wouldn't you?

And Greg, the only reason you'd HAVE to is if you're a dependent
child. Maybe you'd want to because you think you can change them.

I've even found Twenty's idea of "helping someone to crash because you
believe they want to" to not necessarily be the best approach. I've
observed one instance where quite the opposite was called for...
though perhaps he needed to help the person he was advising to crash,
not the person she was trying to 'help.'

So no, I say only aid in change if someone asks for it or if its a
case of immediate physical danger to yourself or someone else.

And my real family is people I've chosen, including the biological
family members I choose to hang around.

jeannine
http://theloveoffreedom.wordpress.com

[Jeannine]

Greg,

If they're family members and you *don't* expect to change them...

Why would there be drama? You could just leave if someone was
treating you inappropriately, and drop it later when you feel they're
being nicer and you want to talk again...

--Jeannine
http://theloveoffreedom.wordpress.com

[Oinarp Mot]

Jeanine,

The only thing I wanted to do at the moment was to take their heads off
with a bat.

I didn't care about the reprocussions.
I didn't care about the karma.
I didn't care about anything other than revenge.

It was a lesson learned.

I wanted them removed from my life so I didn't have to deal with them
again.

No harm other than I alienated people.
Some I love.
Some I like.
Some I can live without.

But it had more to do with the qualities I loath in myself more than
it did them:

The need to control.
Being Judgmental
Hate.
Self Loathing.
Living at my base self.

Now, some things may have worked out but there will always be that
sting of a smack across the face.

I needed to learn to protect myself and I did.

That's the only reason I chose that route.

Nothing against anyone.

Actually, in retrospect. I realize those awful people are going to
love me anyway.
There is a power in that.

Strange.

[Oinarp Mot]

Greg,

Sorry I just had a little laugh about your response to Jeanine's
comment.
I empathize man.

The best I can suggest since I have gone though it is...

Drum role please.

Let them live in their personal hell.

Go about your business and realize it is not your place to prove them
wrong in the same way it isn't their business to prove you wrong.

In other words, do unto others.

I can say the love you get is equal to the love you give.

O.K., now for useful information.

You have a lesson or two to learn on this earth.
You have agreed to these conditions to learn the lessons you need to
learn.
The people in your life are there to teach you the lesson you need to
learn.
What it is...is something perhaps you already know.

Mine was for me to stick up for myself.

To be less judgmental. I am pretty clean of judgment.

To be independent.

The people in my life have been there to push my buttons.

I am grateful for them for without them I would probably be three
hundred pounds,
naked, watching porn, eating cheetoes wondering why my wanker is
orange.

The wanker part was for you Mark.

Tp

[greg]

Welcome to family. :), lol.

Along with life lessons, is this: perhaps you chose each other, or
were assigned to this special team by God, for a reason. And kind of
like life, except for extraordinary circumstances, you don't leave.

Otherwise, I doubt I would ever have talked to any of my b and s.
Well, maybe talked to, but nothing more. And they, likewise, and
probably with each other, too.

I don't hang out with them much.

Yet, we still haven't learned those life lessons to learn.

Here's a secret: most of those lessons, as TP has hinted at, are
mostly within the family.

Switchwitch did get gently knocked on her butt when the time was
right. I regret it came to that; I don't regret having done it. She
has run switch for years and years, to the abuse level. "My way or
confrontation", most every time. It was really affecting everyone
else, especially at all the family gatherings, but it was especially
affecting mom and dad day after day; they were very fatigued.

The six months she didn't talk to them after the episode, was the best
six months they'd had in years.

Now, as to her family situation, if it were up to me, she never would
have married the guy. He's at her level, all in all.

"If they're family members and you *don't* expect to change them...
Why would there be drama? You could just leave if someone was
treating you inappropriately, and drop it later when you feel they're
being nicer and you want to talk again... "

I've done that, to a certain degree, and still do.

The potential of physical threat and violence is great; to them, to
their children, to my parents, to whomever will be there when it all
crashes and burns before the end of summer this year--unless they
change.

I am not there. I am not near any of them. On average, we visit once
every two and a half years. I write and talk every long once in a
while, depending on how they treat me/ us, and to touch in and see if
perhaps, at this time now, they... Nope. Ok, let them live in their
hell a little longer, try again later... A little? Ok, I'll take a
little and try.

We currently don't have plans to go back this summer. Either way, I'm
very concerned.

Just as she won't change, my parents won't leave, being very concerned
about the grandchildren (the other grandparents won't be there to
support anyone for anything--they run switch worse than she does).

No, it's not my problem, but...

There's something else I hear a lot about all over, maybe it will help
understanding if I say my pov here.

While there are lessons to learn, *there are many different ways to
learn them, each with different consequences, costs, and influences on
others*.

You don't *have* to learn one lesson in one way only--unless *you*
limit the teacher/ learning.

While I don't *expect* her to change, I do know that however remote it
might be, there *is* a chance that she will, and I *hope* and *work*
to find that and work it. It might be like The Rock, but there likely
is at least one way in.

Going back to that family thing, I believe that if we don't do our
part in helping with what we can--because obviously we can't choose
for them--we have also failed in our duty and have a part in their
failure, and are responsible for what we could and should have done.

If this were all fully their choice...

But much stems from physical/ emotional circumstances (brain
chemicals), habits formed from a very young age with strong emotion,
and conditioned responses. And, well, that good ol' "denial" thing.

I have seen crash and burn up close. You can't stop it, you can only
try to pull them up, or let them go--they choose. You're there--but
you don't let them pull you down with them, past a certain point.

Some people need to crash and burn. And in some situations, it's best
to help them do it as fast and as painlessly as possible, for
everyone.

You will often feel it, you will know it, it will be way above low-
level emotions, it is to be done with love and courage.

If that's part of what's involved, ok.

But you try to save the airplane before bailing (without it blowing up
with you in it), and then you parachute well when all else fails.

Some people don't know their plane's been hit; others know, but don't
know how serious it is; others will deny it until they see the big
flames and suddenly it will hit. When it does hit, I want to be there
to help--not to do it all, but to show them how to eject, float, and
land.

Reminding me of Sissel singing "Eg ser"... (A lesser version, IMO,
here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=84r5OQX4y5o )

-=-=-=

[Mark Ty-Wharton]

I feel like a woman when men start talking about the Z 98 and the BB 37 but did they connect it to an R 14?

You know men, everything always needs a code or number.

Ever noticed that?

Gadgets aimed at men always...

Then they can talk in code and...

Anyway, what I mean by that is I have no idea what this thread is about.

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[greg]

Ha! Try the military--a huge 3-ring binder of acronyms to
memorize! ;)

-=-=-=

On Mar 11, 8:22 pm, Mark Ty-Wharton <mark.tywhar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel like a woman when men start talking about the Z 98 and the BB 37 but
> did they connect it to an R 14?
>
> You know men, everything always needs a code or number.
>
> Ever noticed that?
>
> Gadgets aimed at men always...
>
> Then they can talk in code and...
>
> Anyway, what I mean by that is I have no idea what this thread is about.
>

> > dharmaville...@googlegroups.com<dharmaville%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/dharmaville?hl=en
> > > > .
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Dharmaville" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to dharm...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > dharmaville...@googlegroups.com<dharmaville%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Oinarp Mot]

Good stuff.

I don't feel like a woman in the same why I do not 

feel like a woman when someone is talking computers.

How does it work?

If I point it in this direction you mean it will go left?

That's all I care about.

Let the fixing of it consume those with aptitude.

I remember the first training I had with Twenty.

His computer went haywire. 

Everyone got up and helped but me.

I believe Twenty looked at me and asked someone about 

that...I said, no aptitude or something like that went outside 

for some air until someone who know what they were doing

stepped in and we began to training.

I know what I know. 

I know some of the stuff I do not know.

That doesn't mean I didn't learn how to change a spark 

plug in 12th grade auto mechanics but it did mean after 

that I knew it was not a path for me.

I am more of an esoteric follower of knowledge and being.

There are no machines in the land of the spirit. 

Tp  

[Jeannine]

Tom,

Bitchin'

I love this.

---Jeannine

[greg]

Anyway, I have reread, and I have let go of outcomes even more, and
feel better. :)

-=-=-=