Bermuda hay in Vail

[Patti Woodbury-Kuvik]

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 6:13 PM, <naturalh...@aol.com> wrote:
>is it true chris walsh is selling tested bermuda? and do you know how much it is

We've been spot testing Chris' hay and it should all come from the
same fields so should be representative. I've been generally pleased
with the hay Chris brings in - it's nicer than what I've seen at some
feed stores. From Imperial Valley - $11.50/bale ($11 if cash),
equivalent to the nice Bermuda I was buying from Tanque Verde Feed for
$14+ last summer. Chris currently has around six stacks; buyer needs
to plan on helping her load. If someone wants to get larger amounts,
they can arrange to be there with a trailer on the day the truck gets
there and have it squeezed on to their trailer. (Bring a book in case
truck or squeeze is running late.)
This is her Craig's List spot http://tucson.craigslist.org/grd/1606665737.html
Phone numbers h - (520)762-5481 cell - (520)490-1870
Have to remember this isn't a 9-5 feed store so need to check with
Chris before going over. Also, if I'm only getting a few bales, I try
to time it for when she's going to pull the tarps for a few people or
a large sale (it's a lot of work to pull and replace the tarps).

Last test (October): Sugar + starch 8.9% (good). 20 lbs/day provides
good protein and calcium for a 1,000 lb horse at maintenance. Ca:P 2:1
(how perfect is that?), could use around 4-5 grams magnesium. Iron is
moderately high (214 ppm) - using 3 oz of AZ Regional Mix (125 mg
copper in the standard serving) with this will bring Fe:Cu ratio to
8.3, which is fine for a healthy horse. Using 5 ounces (a full scoop,
205 mg copper) will bring the Fe:Cu ratio to 6.2. This should work for
most; if a horse has resistant IR that's not improving, I'd add
another 100 mg of copper (and another 400 or so of zinc) for a tighter
4:1 ratio (using poly-copper and poly-zinc from HorseTech).

Patti

[Monique Warren]

Is there any way to find out the growers name and phone # as I would
be interested in a tractor trailer load in August. Did he test the hay
himself or did someone from this group make the trek out there ? What
was the protien ?

Thinking ahead !

Still trying to get used to this Google format,

Patti, maybe you could formulate an Imperial Valley regional mix. I
would be happy to provide you with tests ( mine and my sisters) from
the last 2 years from various growers there.

Monique
San Diego

On Feb 22, 12:48 pm, Patti Woodbury-Kuvik <deserthor...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Patti]

Hi Monique ~

I'll check with Chris. It's not tested at the source, so you'd probably still have to do your own testing.j

We do the testing here - I core and Chris sends it in. 

I put a pdf of the spreadsheet that shows the hay in the files.

We could work on a "regional" mix. If we do it here in the group, those who are interested could follow. If it's too technical for some, they can just ignore it. I have some of your analyses in my files, pm me the others. Plus, do you have some from trim clients?

Patti

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Patti Woodbury-Kuvik
PO Box 759
Vail AZ 85641
Desert Equine Balance
http://desertequinebalance.blogspot.com/

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[Monique Warren]

I did formulate one, please take a look and I would like your input. I tried sometime ago to get you in on the action ! Our Imperial Valley hay needs more tweeking it seems than your SW hay !

 

My clients don’t test. I have even offered to core it for them ! Most don’t get a years worth.

 

Here is what I have for now on the mix, it is CP120708 at Horse Tech

 

 

3 grams magnesium

4 grams phosphorus

5 grams lysine

2.5 grams methionine

2 grams threonine

500 mg. zinc

175 mg. copper

200 mg. manganese

4 mg. iodine

20 mg. biotin

B complex

1000 mg. grape seed extract

2 mg. selenium

2 mg. chromium

 

You would need to feed along with this:

*½  - 1 cup fresh ground flaxseed 25 cents a day

*2500 IU liquid E  20-96 cents a day (see below)

*0-4 tablespoons plain salt mixed in supplements SALT REQUIREMENTS CAN REALLY VARY DEPENDING ON SODIUM AMOUNT IN HAY.

*Forco prebiotic  www.forco.com  23 cents a day for one ounce or Ration Plus prebiotic       www.valleyvet.com

*Free choice PLAIN salt (white salt block or loose salt in a bucket)

 

 

I am not good on the computer so I will send you hay tests separately

 

Thanks for your help. If you want to make adjustments and have Rod put it on the site as Imperial Valley Regional Mix that would be GREAT !

 

Monique

[Patti Woodbury-Kuvik]

When I averaged 8 tests, two definitely needed phosphorus added, two
did not need any, and four were marginal (Ca:P ratio less than 3:1).
Its because of variances like these that I don't mess with calcium and
phos w/o testing the specific hay.
Magnesium can also be variable but we don't have the same inverse
ratio concerns that we do with Ca and P. I usually have people add it
separately (a must with IR horses, optional with non-IR), usually 5
grams but not more than 10 grams max if hay not tested. If your
clients are not likely to add separately, then adding 3-5 grams in the
mix looks good.
When I did AZ Regional, I didn't see a generalized need for adding
amino acids. They're nice insurance but add to the cost. I did add
them to AZ First Balance, which is a hyped up version of AZ Regional.
The trace levels are fine; you could go higher (200 or 225 mg) on the
copper. I'd rather play "safe" when you have unknowns and use poly
copper/poly zinc to tweak for tested hay. Iodine and Se are good.
I would add 2,000 IU vitamin E. As we tend to order a max three month
supply, the shelf life on the powdered E used in HorseTech supplements
should keep the potency up. If using additional vit E, I prefer gel
caps; they can be added when a weeks worth of supplements are set up
(useful if someone boards).
Is there a flax base? I guess I feel if someone can't test, they
probably want one scoop convenience - so would want to have minimum 2
oz flax as a base (and encourage additional fresh ground flax or
NutraFlax or HorseShine).
How does it work out cost wise per serving?

Patti

[Monique Warren]

I just e-mailed Rod to update CP120708 today and asked him for the cost .
Will let you know when I find out. I don't use this mix so don't know what
the current cost is ! I took out the P, upped the copper to 225mg and upped
the magnesium to 5 grams. I have it put in distillers grain base as my
clients have had the flax base stuff go rancid in their tack sheds that get
hot in the summer. Some horses sensitive to yeast so went with the
distillers grain base. I soooooooooooooooooo appreciate your help.

Maybe you did not see this part of my e-mail ? :

You would need to feed along with this:
>
> *½ - 1 cup fresh ground flaxseed 25 cents a day
>
> *2500 IU liquid E 20-96 cents a day (see below)
>
> *0-4 tablespoons plain salt mixed in supplements SALT REQUIREMENTS CAN
> REALLY VARY DEPENDING ON SODIUM AMOUNT IN HAY.
>
> *Forco prebiotic www.forco.com 23 cents a day for one ounce or Ration
Plus
> prebiotic www.valleyvet.com
>
> *Free choice PLAIN salt (white salt block or loose salt in a bucket)

You are awesome !!!! The Google format seems so odd to me. Any chance of
getting the new group on Yahoo ?

I am currently supplementing my horses w/ 4 mg. selenium as current hay only
provides less than 1. After researching importance of thyroid function and
supplementing w/ so much copper and zinc I got Dr. Kellons okay to do so !

Monique

-----Original Message-----
From: desertequ...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:desertequ...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Patti

[Patti Woodbury-Kuvik]

Monique ~

Do you have the "final" complete recipe, cost and CP number for your
mix so we can make a page for it?
Did you give it a name?
This will give folks another option for a basic mix.

Patti

On Feb 27, 5:01 pm, Monique Warren <mwar...@tmwireless.com> wrote:
> I just e-mailed Rod to update CP120708 today and asked him for the cost .
> Will let you know when I find out. I don't use this mix so don't know what
> the current cost is ! I took out the P, upped the copper to 225mg and upped
> the magnesium to 5 grams. I have it put in distillers grain base as my
> clients have had the flax base stuff go rancid in their tack sheds that get
> hot in the summer. Some horses sensitive to yeast so went with the
> distillers grain base. I soooooooooooooooooo appreciate your help.
>
> Maybe you did not see this part of my e-mail ? :
>
> You would need to feed along with this:
>
>
>
> > *½  - 1 cup fresh ground flaxseed 25 cents a day
>
> > *2500 IU liquid E  20-96 cents a day (see below)
>
> > *0-4 tablespoons plain salt mixed in supplements SALT REQUIREMENTS CAN
> > REALLY VARY DEPENDING ON SODIUM AMOUNT IN HAY.
>

> > *Forco prebiotic  www.forco.com23 cents a day for one ounce or Ration

[Monique Warren]

I am soooooooooooooooo frustrated. I just need to call him tomorrow. He is
not answering my e-mails and still hasn't got it right. Last one he e-mailed
me he left out the selenium. Argggggggggggggggggggg.
Mo

Monique ~

Patti

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