Demon usenet and agent

[Mark Roberts]

I've started using Agent 7 after years of Turnpike
(Damn you windows 7)
I seem to be having trouble though.
Despite checking the default and folder properties to make sure I have
'receive bodies for all messages' ticked it just wont do it
automatically.
I have to use 'Get new headers' button every time I want to download.
This doesnt seem right but I think I have verything set to do so.
Starting to suspect its somethign to do with my Demon usenet setup.

I have 'news.demon.co.u'k and set it to 'no login required'
I have unticked the ssl box.

I'm baffled so thought I would check here.

--
Mark Roberts

[Chris S]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 08:10:54 +0100, Mark Roberts
<ma...@martem.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I've started using Agent 7 after years of Turnpike
>(Damn you windows 7)
>I seem to be having trouble though.
>Despite checking the default and folder properties to make sure I have
>'receive bodies for all messages' ticked it just wont do it
>automatically.
>I have to use 'Get new headers' button every time I want to download.

I've been doing it the above way (or get new headers in desk) ever
since I started using Agent without actually thinking there might be
an alternative. AFAIR my change from Turnpike to Agent was meant to be
temporary (new machine) but became sort of permanent over time. It was
a good few years back so not sure how I used to run Turnpike.

>This doesnt seem right but I think I have verything set to do so.
>Starting to suspect its somethign to do with my Demon usenet setup.
>
>I have 'news.demon.co.u'k and set it to 'no login required'
>I have unticked the ssl box.
>
>I'm baffled so thought I would check here.

Having had a quick look just now, while it appears you can 'automate'
mail collection (I don't use Agent for mail) there doesn't seem to be
an equivalent for News. I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with any
particular news server (I use 2) as it's a pull not a push service;
Agent for some reason appear not to have bothered including an option
to 'retrieve news every n minutes'.

Perhaps someone else will come along and say we are both wrong!

Chris S

[Val Davies]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 13:46:50 +0100, Chris S <myr9g...@snkmail.com>
wrote:

>Having had a quick look just now, while it appears you can 'automate'
>mail collection (I don't use Agent for mail) there doesn't seem to be
>an equivalent for News. I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with any
>particular news server (I use 2) as it's a pull not a push service;
>Agent for some reason appear not to have bothered including an option
>to 'retrieve news every n minutes'.
>
>Perhaps someone else will come along and say we are both wrong!
>
>Chris S

3 of us then. I swapped a few months ago from Turnpike to Agent on
account of Windows 7 and I too am manually fatching news, not having
been able to work out how to get it to do it for me on an ongoing
basis !

Val

[Alan Woodford]

Four, at least :-)

I've been using Agent for news, and Turnpike for email, for at least
most of the last 10 years....

I must admit I've never bothered to automate news collection - one
click isn't that tedious, although if I've checked news six times a
day for the last 9+ years, thats over 20,000 mouse clicks :-O

Alan Woodford


The Greying Lensman

[Mark Roberts]

Bugger. I have a set of programs that just fire up in different
windows when the PC goes on. They stay on and do their thing and I
just need to switch windows to have a look.
Turnpike worked just fine doing this for 19 years; hard to believe
Agent doesn't do it.

--
Mark Roberts

[John Hall]

In article <3fo3p85sh45d0dc96...@4ax.com>,

Somewhere there must be a newsgroup (alt.offline-reader.forte-agent
exists, but I haven't checked to see if it's still being used), or
failing that a web forum, where you'll have a better chance of finding
an Agent expert. Of course, if it /is/ some peculiarity of the Demon
news server that is causing your problem then they may not be able to
help. However that seems unlikely to me.
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

[Chris S]

Number 2 here! ;-) There used to be, and presumably still are,
applications that memorize key strokes for the purpose of automating
repetitive tasks. However, it hardly seems worth the effort. Perhaps
if we all independently submit an RFC (Request For Change) to Forte
they might take notice?

Chris S

[Mark Roberts]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 18:42:03 +0100, John Hall
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:


>
>Somewhere there must be a newsgroup (alt.offline-reader.forte-agent
>exists, but I haven't checked to see if it's still being used), or
>failing that a web forum, where you'll have a better chance of finding
>an Agent expert. Of course, if it /is/ some peculiarity of the Demon
>news server that is causing your problem then they may not be able to
>help. However that seems unlikely to me.

Oh I have looked. I have found some information that sounded as if it
might be what i was looking for. None of it works. It's as if all the
Agent users are happy with it that way and no one has ever thought of
doing it my way.
I just ended up thinking it was something I'd done wrong, as usual..

--
Mark Roberts

[Ian]

In message <6r25p8t7r7314uec7...@4ax.com>, Mark Roberts
<ma...@martem.demon.co.uk> writes

This might be of some use, if you haven't already seen it.

http://www.forteinc.com/apn/faq.php
--
Ian

[Peter Tavendale]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 08:10:54 +0100, Mark Roberts

<ma...@martem.demon.co.uk> broadcast:

Agent is an "On Demand" news reader.

[Mark Roberts]

I did eventually manage to find a description of the 'concept'.
Wasn't looking for it and just assumed it would replace Turnpike as so
many others used it.
I miss Turnpike dreadfully.
Tried Thunderbird; which was fine for email (still using it) but just
seemed to flounder and crash with Usenet.
So Agent just doesn't seem to cut it for me either.
Any reccomendations for a usenet client that works with Windows 7 and
does what I want (and is not web based)?


--
Mark Roberts

[Jim Crowther]

In demon.service, on Thu, 16 May 2013 16:09:09, Mark Roberts wrote:

[snip]

>I miss Turnpike dreadfully.
>Tried Thunderbird; which was fine for email (still using it) but just
>seemed to flounder and crash with Usenet. So Agent just doesn't seem to
>cut it for me either. Any reccomendations for a usenet client that
>works with Windows 7 and does what I want (and is not web based)?

Have you tried installing XP on a Virtual Machine? Works a treat here
on my Win7 64-bit set-up.

--
Jim Crowther

[Charles Ellson]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 18:17:46 +0100, Jim Crowther
<Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:

>In demon.service, on Thu, 16 May 2013 16:09:09, Mark Roberts wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>I miss Turnpike dreadfully.
>>Tried Thunderbird; which was fine for email (still using it) but just
>>seemed to flounder and crash with Usenet.
>>

I haven't had that trouble with Thunderbird (10.0.2) although I don't
use it regularly as it was originally installed for reasons lost in
the mists of time.

[Mark Roberts]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 18:17:46 +0100, Jim Crowther
<Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:

I have it installed as there is 19 years of email in the bloody
turnpike database :(
The lag drives me nuts though.

--
Mark Roberts

[Mark Roberts]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 21:20:36 +0100, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

>On Thu, 16 May 2013 18:17:46 +0100, Jim Crowther
><Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>In demon.service, on Thu, 16 May 2013 16:09:09, Mark Roberts wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>>I miss Turnpike dreadfully.
>>>Tried Thunderbird; which was fine for email (still using it) but just
>>>seemed to flounder and crash with Usenet.
>>>
>I haven't had that trouble with Thunderbird (10.0.2) although I don't
>use it regularly as it was originally installed for reasons lost in
>the mists of time.

I'd end up with corrupted posts.
I just got sick of it.
Crashed a lot for reasons unknown.
Removing the usenet functionality has left me with an email client
that I'm happy with though.



--
Mark Roberts

[Gordon H]

Not had that trouble with Thunderbird, (yet), but I'm using Vista.
(yes, really). :)
--
Gordon H

Remove Invalid to reply

[Peter Hill]

Thunderbird is crap once there are even a few 1000 of posts in a group.

Doesn't multithread like agent on XP. It doesn't allow you go look at a
group that it has retrieved posts for or do your E-mail instead (or was
that me using 3 instances, 1 E-mail and 2 for news UK / rest?) but hangs
stuck in the single group it is retrieving.

It's also dead so won't get any better or fixed.

About time I paid for Agent (which I thought was also dead).

--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply

[Joe]

I've used Claws for mail and some news for some time now, after getting
fed up waiting for Thunderbird. It doesn't suffer a loss of network
connection gladly, but it doesn't lose anything, just hangs and is
sulky about closing down. It does update automatically.

What I don't know is how good it is on Windows, where it isn't native,
and is still under construction, not all plugins work yet. I have also
used Pan, which seemed OK but was slower than Claws, and again isn't
native to Windows.

--
Joe

[Simon Lamont]

Strange. Thunderbird works fine for me with both mail and usenet (though
I don't use Demon's newsserver, but don't recall any trouble when I did
some time ago) under Win 7.

--
ot...@simonlamont.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/simon.lamont

[Bill]

In message <20130517084...@jretrading.com>, Joe
<j...@jretrading.com> writes

>>
>
>I've used Claws for mail and some news for some time now, after getting
>fed up waiting for Thunderbird. It doesn't suffer a loss of network
>connection gladly, but it doesn't lose anything, just hangs and is
>sulky about closing down. It does update automatically.
>
>What I don't know is how good it is on Windows, where it isn't native,
>and is still under construction, not all plugins work yet. I have also
>used Pan, which seemed OK but was slower than Claws, and again isn't
>native to Windows.
>

Only just seen this thread, so rather late, but just thought it worth
saying that I hate Thunderbird, although use it for some non-Demon mail,
and I still use Turnpike for main news on 32-bit Win7, but I also use
Pan.

Pan works like Agent in that you have to click to pull down news. I
spent ages looking, but never found a way to automate it.
--
Bill

[Ian Jackson]

In message <GtOrJGFB$OnR...@itsound.demon.co.uk>, Bill
<Billa...@gmail.com> writes

If you don't mind me asking, why do you 'hate' TB? I've had it running
in parallel with TP for about 18 months. Although I'm no expert, but
with a few addons/extensions, a bit of juggling, and a few fiddles, it
can be made to look like - and operate fairly similar to - TP.
--
Ian

[Mark Roberts]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 17:36:35 +0100, Ian Jackson

>
>If you don't mind me asking, why do you 'hate' TB? I've had it running
>in parallel with TP for about 18 months. Although I'm no expert, but
>with a few addons/extensions, a bit of juggling, and a few fiddles, it
>can be made to look like - and operate fairly similar to - TP.

My rub with it is the crashes and corrup posts.
I'd often find that a series of retrieved posts would all have the
same text in them; fragments of another post.
Lot's of fiddling to get rid of them and download them again.
Then it would happen again a few days later.
It would often make windows hang as well.
It's definitley the Usent part that causes the problems; I'm still
using it for mail and I'm happy with it.

--
Mark Roberts

[Bill]

In message <Ouy6QJLT...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> writes

>If you don't mind me asking, why do you 'hate' TB? I've had it running
>in parallel with TP for about 18 months. Although I'm no expert, but
>with a few addons/extensions, a bit of juggling, and a few fiddles, it
>can be made to look like - and operate fairly similar to - TP.

You have to bear in mind that I basically don't have a clue what I'm
doing.

I used to have TB installed to download the emails from my gmail
account, plus news from aioe. I found I was missing parts of news
threads, and resolved to move to Eternal September. I didn't like the
way TB was threading the news anyway, but that was probably the way I
had the settings. I had also had a crisis with gmail and a tablet, and
additionally wanted to bring Google Calendar into a tab on TB.

About this time, I replaced the HD in the laptop with a larger one, and
decided to do a complete fresh install of Win7. I looked at news
readers, and decided that Pan seemed good, so installed ES on that. I
like Pan and have had no trouble with it. News is now solely TP on Demon
and ES on Pan

I then went through the install procedure with TB, and installed it to
point at Google's imap server. This appeared to sync rather than just
"watch" the emails, so I took the opportunity to plough through all the
tens, or hundreds of thousands of old gmail emails and delete most.
Now, when I connect, a bunch of emails will flow down OK, but I
highlight, say 20 and hit delete and TB greys out and sits there. After
a substantial delay, it "comes back" and lets me carry on deleting or
occasionally reading. If I look at emails, I often find extra tabs have
appeared, usually un-noticed at the time.
The progress bar at the bottom seems to have a mind of its own,
trundling across, starting again and rarely seeming to reach 100%
I assume this is because it is syncing and deleting on Google, or
because I have some settings seriously wrong, but I did install and set
up in a way that followed guidance.

I can't remember where the guidance came from.
--
Bill

[Rex]

On 16/05/2013 21:20, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Thu, 16 May 2013 18:17:46 +0100, Jim Crowther
> <Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> In demon.service, on Thu, 16 May 2013 16:09:09, Mark Roberts wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>> I miss Turnpike dreadfully.
>>> Tried Thunderbird; which was fine for email (still using it) but just
>>> seemed to flounder and crash with Usenet.
>>>
> I haven't had that trouble with Thunderbird (10.0.2)

I find Thunderbird is pretty bad at any multi-part posting ... for
straight stuff (like demon.service) it's satisfactory here


my work-around has been yEnc, *IF* the multi-part was y-encoded;
otherwise ... "failed"

[Ian Jackson]

In message <ko3pto$sop$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Hils <hi...@saynotospam.net>
writes

>Until several months ago I used TB on WinXP. It very occasionally
>crashed for no apparent reason, but it never corrupted any data. On
>Linux it (in the form of Icedove) has worked flawlessly. I'm
>occasionally minded to try gnus (it seemed to work on WinXP in a test
>configuration) but TB/ID's good enough for now. It also imported a load
>of mail and news from Turnpike dating back to 1997 with no problems.

You've found a way to transfer news from TP to TB?
>
>IMO the worst part of TB is poor documentation, but the same can
>probably be said of most collaborative open source software.

But you usually find lots of information and advice if you do a bit of
quick Googling.
--
Ian

[Ian Jackson]

In message <ko5q87$ebb$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Hils <hi...@saynotospam.net>
writes

>On 29/05/13 16:29, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> You've found a way to transfer news from TP to TB?
>

>I remember making notes as it wasn't altogether intuitive and I hadnt
>used Turnpike for four years, but I can't find the notes just now. TB
>needs the ImportExport Tools add-on. Also TB didn't thread the articles
>on importing them, it had to be told to thread them, but that was a
>matter of a few clicks..
>
>IIRC it was exporting articles (and emails) from Turnpike in mbox
>format, then importing them into a suitable folder in TB. (Email
>attachments imported perfectly too.) But I'm halfway through a bottle
>of nice Portugese Syrah, so I'm not that sure of anything just now.
>
As you describe, the transfer from TP to TB is easy (and painless) - but
only for e-mail. News simply doesn't work at all at all. It isn't meant
to. Address book sort-of works - but is a mess.

>>> IMO the worst part of TB is poor documentation, but the same can
>>> probably be said of most collaborative open source software.
>>
>> But you usually find lots of information and advice if you do a bit
>> of quick Googling.
>

>This is true. Having coherent documentation in one place is one of the
>costs which makes payware payware.

The problem with coherent documentation is that there's usually far too
much of it. I have great difficulty in finding (and usually
understanding) what I'm after!
--
Ian