And of course we cannot sue em....
Mr_K
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/08/ofcom_speed_survey/
Peter Ceresole
> More proof that we the paying user are getting shafted.
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/08/ofcom_speed_survey/
It's not that at all- although idiots will as always be tempted to say
so.
What it says is that for the advertised speeds, 'up to' means exactly
what it says. And with our ancient infrastructure, you only get what you
pay for.
D'oh.
--
Peter
Mr_K
"Peter Ceresole" <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1itbs6b.9m40sp7eax5bN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk...
Jeff Gaines
>More proof that we the paying user are getting shafted.
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/08/ofcom_speed_survey/
'Up to' means 'up to', I really can't understand the fuss.
All that is needed is to ensure that people understand the factors that
affect broadband speed, whoops, we don't do understanding any more do we :-(
--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
Indecision is the key to flexibility
Gordon H
Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> writes
Every advertisement/promotion for BB products I've checked in the last
few weeks promise "up to" (say) 8M.
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply
Roy Brown
Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> writes
What odd thinking. If my 'up to' 8mb line serves me only 2 mb, then even
if your 'up to' 8 mb line only serves you 4 mb, you are still getting
twice what I get, for the same money. And of course only half of what
those people getting 8mb (and there must be some, or 'up to' 8mb would
be a lie).
And yet we will all be paying the same. So how is that 'you only get
what you pay for' exactly? Or did you mean 'don't even get what you pay
for?'
In a world where internet providers charge different tariffs for
different speeds, and yet cap those tariffs at the same amount of
monthly usage, so the offered speed is the only difference, this is a
serious matter.
Thought though; if I get 2mb on my 'up to' 8mb line, and then decide to
drop to the 4mb service (or lower) will I still get 2mb? Or will it
magically drop to 1mb then?
If I still get 2mb (as I should), but my ISP knows I can't get 8mb, then
isn't it unethical for them to offer me a tariff that is higher than the
maximum I can actually benefit from?
--
Roy Brown 'Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be
Kelmscott Ltd useful, or believe to be beautiful' William Morris
Peter Ceresole
> And yet we will all be paying the same. So how is that 'you only get
> what you pay for' exactly? Or did you mean 'don't even get what you pay
> for?'
You get what you pay for in that we are paying peanuts to use a creaking
legacy local telecoms infrastructure. If you weant more speed, say up to
10Mbps Japanese levels (I believe they get more, in town) then you have
to be prepared to pay for a whole new load of cabling and so forth. You
can do that in the cities, by subscribing to a cable service. Ouside the
cities, it becomes prohibitively expensive to lay the cable for the
smaller number of subscribers, so nobody does it.
>
> In a world where internet providers charge different tariffs for
> different speeds, and yet cap those tariffs at the same amount of
> monthly usage, so the offered speed is the only difference, this is a
> serious matter.
Do they all cap useage at the same level? I don't think they do.
Speed and useage cap are not the same thing, not even remotely.
--
Peter
Mr_K
news:xn0g5011n...@port80.individual.net...
I think if you read what people are writing about, then you might understand
what the fuss is about.
I was on a 2MB connection and did what I do year in and year out. No
problem.
Demon moved me to an "Up to 8MB connection" - "Unlimited Internet" and I
carried on as normal, though suddenly I was getting things faster and could
continue to do what I do, but then Demon tell me that I am using their
service too much so they capped me to "Dial-up" speeds during the whole day
as a way of punishing me for using their service, that THEY CHANGED without
me asking them to.
So to stopped getting capped, they want me to pay Ł40.00 + vat per month,
but I won't get any guarantee of faster speed than I am getting at the
moment.
If you cannot understand why ANYONE would get annoyed about this then I
think you need to study more on human psychology.
Have a look at the new BT offerings.... three tiers... opts 1,2,3 with
Option 3 being their "UNLIMITED" package.
"http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayCategory.do?categoryId=CON-TOTAL-BB-R1#tab4"
You can check the deal above.
Now...
Unlimited usage:
Download "what you want," "when you want" - including movies, video clips,
music and online gaming.
NOW READ THAT LINE A FEW TIMES..... and again.... and once again..... and
then you get this...
More about your monthly broadband usage allowance:
you then get a link to here:
"http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25794"
All you need to know is if you're going to use the Internet a lot, go for
Option 3, if only a little, go for Option 1.
With our download options, you only pay for what you need.
We have also increased our usage limits so you can get even more out of BT
Total Broadband.
So read on and on and on.... and then....
BT's Fair Usage Policy applies to customers on all Options
ERR... hang on.... whatcha mean? SO lets follow the link and check!
BT Total Broadband package Monthly usage allowance (from 1 July 2008)
Over-usage charges
Option 1 10GB 58p/GB
Option 2 15GB 58p/GB
Option 3 Unlimited No charges (UNLIMITED NO CHARGES) READ AGAIN AND AGAIN
AND AGAIN.......
On that page there NOTHING to tell you what limits are in place for option
3 - NOTHING.
But they point you to the OFCOM web site and OOOoooo this makes interesting
reading more so for DEMON INTERNET!
"http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi/copbb/copbb/"
5th Principle: Presentation of broadband information on the website
Fair usage policies and usage limits
34. The ISPs should publish, in a clear and easily accessible form, any
criteria they use for determining breaches of its fair usage policy (e.g.
total usage, specific percentage of users etc).
35. The ISPs should publish, in clear and easily accessible form, the
actions they intend to take should a user exceed a usage limit or breach a
fair usage policy (e.g. the size of any extra charges or nature of any speed
restrictions etc).
36. Where it is reasonably possible to do so, ISPs should provide a means by
which users can measure their usage over the relevant billing period.
Reasonable possible - We are to believe that this is not an option for Demon
Internet customers???
37. ISPs in possession of a user's email address should provide users with
email notification when users exceed a usage limit or breach a fair usage
policy which informs users about the precise consequences of doing so, e.g.
additional costs, information on speed restrictions imposed etc.
This is the cheap route Demon Internet Take.
Now back to BT here...... based on their web site and what my aging eyes can
see, I would have to believe that I have a totally unlimited and uncapped
service based on the information on the site?
So.... why is it that I could not get this confirmed while chatting to a BT
rep? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jeff Gaines
>"Jeff Gaines" <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:xn0g5011n...@port80.individual.net...
>>On 10/01/2009 in message <e3%9l.1097$x33....@newsfe22.ams2> Mr_K wrote:
>>
>>>More proof that we the paying user are getting shafted.
>>>
>>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/08/ofcom_speed_survey/
>>
>>'Up to' means 'up to', I really can't understand the fuss.
>>
>>All that is needed is to ensure that people understand the factors that
>>affect broadband speed, whoops, we don't do understanding any more do we
>>:-(
>>
>>-- Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
>>Indecision is the key to flexibility
>
>I think if you read what people are writing about, then you might
>understand what the fuss is about.
The link you provided is about people getting less than 8Mbps on an 'up to
8Mbps' connection. Less than 8Mbps is 'up to 8Mbps' and Demon are very
clear on their website that actual speed depends on a variety of
conditions, I'm sure other ISP's are clear as well.
>I was on a 2MB connection and did what I do year in and year out. No
>problem.
>Demon moved me to an "Up to 8MB connection" - "Unlimited Internet" and I
>carried on as normal, though suddenly I was getting things faster and
>could continue to do what I do, but then Demon tell me that I am using
>their service too much so they capped me to "Dial-up" speeds during the
>whole day as a way of punishing me for using their service, that THEY
>CHANGED without me asking them to.
>So to stopped getting capped, they want me to pay £40.00 + vat per month,
>but I won't get any guarantee of faster speed than I am getting at the
>moment.
>If you cannot understand why ANYONE would get annoyed about this then I
>think you need to study more on human psychology.
So what you are really complaining about is that you cannot down-load as
much as you want? Thank goodness for Demon's FUP, it is there to protect
users like me from users like you.
--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.
Mr_K
>>problem.
>>Demon moved me to an "Up to 8MB connection" - "Unlimited Internet" and I
>>carried on as normal, though suddenly I was getting things faster and
>>could continue to do what I do, but then Demon tell me that I am using
>>their service too much so they capped me to "Dial-up" speeds during the
>>whole day as a way of punishing me for using their service, that THEY
>>CHANGED without me asking them to.
>>moment.
>>If you cannot understand why ANYONE would get annoyed about this then I
>>think you need to study more on human psychology.
>
> So what you are really complaining about is that you cannot down-load as
> much as you want? Thank goodness for Demon's FUP, it is there to protect
> users like me from users like you.
>
> --
> Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
> Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.
Its clear you really do not understand what anyone is discussing, and I'm
sure that people like you are what Demon Internet love.
Maybe if you keep the flag flying, Demon Internet may give you a nice wee
"Demon Buddy" badge :)
Paul Terry
<Mustap...@bishbashbosh.com> writes
>Its clear you really do not understand what anyone is discussing,
OTOH, there's a strong possibility that a lot of us have no idea what
you think you are discussing ...
--
Paul Terry
Mr_K
news:IyLDM5Af...@musonix.demon.co.uk...
Now THAT I can't disagree with!!! :)
Gordon H
<Mustap...@bishbashbosh.com> writes
(I think).
Gordon H
<jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On 11/01/2009 in message <8pjal.81649$iW1....@newsfe23.ams2> Mr_K wrote:
>
>>I was on a 2MB connection and did what I do year in and year out. No
>>problem.
>>Demon moved me to an "Up to 8MB connection" - "Unlimited Internet" and
>>I carried on as normal, though suddenly I was getting things faster
>>and could continue to do what I do, but then Demon tell me that I am
>>using their service too much so they capped me to "Dial-up" speeds
>>during the whole day as a way of punishing me for using their service,
>>that THEY CHANGED without me asking them to.
>>at the moment.
>>If you cannot understand why ANYONE would get annoyed about this then
>>I think you need to study more on human psychology.
>
>So what you are really complaining about is that you cannot down-load
>as much as you want? Thank goodness for Demon's FUP, it is there to
>protect users like me from users like you.
>
It is a mystery to me how it is possible to reach the FUP unless one is
downloading pirate movies all day.
I'm prepared to be informed how the average business user might reach
that limit...
Mr_K
> My thoughts throughout all the 'capping' threads...
> It is a mystery to me how it is possible to reach the FUP unless one is
> downloading pirate movies all day.
> I'm prepared to be informed how the average business user might reach that
> limit...
> --
> Gordon H
> Remove "invalid" to reply
I have a multitude of server material coming in daily, I deal in multimedia
and design, as well as IT support, and have to get a lot of material in at
times (not all the time).
Try working on clients animations, CAD etc through a heavy period and you
wait till you see the consumed bandwidth.
I have no time for Pirate movies and buy my DVDs and Bluray as required, so
your assumption that the bandwidth being used illegally is in fact based on
your own uses no doubt :)
Mr_K
"Gordon H" <Gordo...@g3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:gJ$P96AuW...@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
Or whatever that may be :)
Nicholas D. Richards
3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid> on Tue, 13 Jan 2009 at 13:22:54 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
This seems to be turning into a Donald Rumsfeld moment.
--
Nicholas David Richards -
"Oů sont les neiges d'antan?"
Nicholas D. Richards
Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> on Sat, 10 Jan 2009 at 21:23:03 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
When I considered moving I discovered that many of the smaller ISP's
offered various combinations of speed and usage cap.
What I did discover was that to get what is effectively no cap it would
be cheaper to stay on my Demon business grade 2Mb service which is
uncapped (94GB in the past 42 days). With Demon I would continue to get
a News service thrown in, which does, now, seem to 'work' most of the
time. The service delivers a consistent 2Mb.
>
>Speed and useage cap are not the same thing, not even remotely.
--
Gordon H
<nich...@salmiron.demon.co.uk> writes
Someone's being misunderestimated, that's all.
Gordon H
<Mustap...@bishbashbosh.com> writes
I sneak a look at YouTube from time to time. ;-)
Thanks for the rundown, I would guess that heavy business users get off
lightly with £25 per month, but I have no experience of comparative
'deals'.
Roy Brown
Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> writes
Exactly.
But go to http://www.broadband-finder.co.uk/compare-broadband/#compare
and use the postcode SW1V 4EB.
While there is a lot more similarity in speeds than I recall from
earlier days, and only a few people are now offering different ones,
look at the figures for O2, which seem to be offering the same cap
(almost no cap, if you believe their T&Cs) at different speeds of 20, 16
and 8mb..
Chase the details, and you will find that O2 offer these services, at
'up to' 20 and 20 (no longer 16) and 8mb only where they have LLU
equipment in the local BT exchange, otherwise you have to rely on a
BT-provided O2 Home Access service with BT's own 'up 8mb' network.
But the really interesting thing is that the higher speeds O2 offer
depend on the cable *away* from the exchange being O2's and not BT's,
while both use that same 'creaking legacy local telecoms infrastructure'
for the final link from the exchange to your home.
And I can, apparently, get 10mb on my line at home, which is on the very
northern edge of a village outside a small town (not on the postcode
above!) on a BT POTS line; so better than the base 8mB service that
either BT or O2 offer, but if I wanted the extras on either of the 2
20mB O2 services, I'd be 'wasting' whatever part of the additional
charge I was spending to get the extra 10mB.
And is it, anyway, me who won't spend the money on infrastructure? Just
beyond the new estate where I live I can see a Telewest (now Virgin)
cable termination box.
I strongly suspect that Telewest brought the cable up to the estate
intending that the developers (Bovis) would extend it onto the estate,
or allow them to extend it onto the estate; but not so, and we have only
BT (fibre, I'd imagine) down our roads.
Eric
>
> and use the postcode SW1V 4EB.
>
why that one?
E
Roy Brown
<er...@deptj.demon.co.uk> writes
It's a central London one that I happen to know, within the sound of Big
Ben..
I figure that any ISP worth its salt ought to serve all its possible
broadband options within that postcode.
Which is not true of my local postcode in the sticks.