Alternatives to Demon
Craig Cockburn
say about the competition?
I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
etc.
thanks
--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). Director, Siliconglen.com Ltd
Web project manager and Internet specialist. CITP. C.Eng
http://www.siliconglen.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/siliconglen
Jim Crowther
>I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad
>to say about the competition?
>
>I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>etc.
Despite them being at first glance rather expensive - I went with AAISP
5 years ago, and have never regretted it. Far better value for money
than Demon ever was!
They have had as many outages as Demon recently - 95% or more of them
due to BT - but they have consistently given a no-bullshit
up-to-the-moment commentary on their uk.* newsgroup and on several other
communication channels. They also offer BE connectivity (albeit at a
higher price) but businesses might jump at the chance of
dual-redundancy.
uk.net.providers.aaisp spills the beans.
http://sod.ms gets to them by the most memorable URL. ;)
--
Jim Crowther
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad to
> say about the competition?
I'm pretty happy with Andrews & Arnold (A&A, aka AAISP), though I use Virgin
for connectivity and therefore only have email & webspace and a domain
hosted by A&A. I get nntp news from NIN.
You can get an idea of how they treat their customers by looking at the
traffic (including moment-to-moment details of problems & outages) on the
newsgroup: uk.net.providers.aaisp
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "nnn" by "284".
Paul Terry
<cr...@siliconglen.com> writes
>I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad
>to say about the competition?
>
>I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>etc.
Andrews and Arnold have an excellent reputation for support, and would
be my first choice if I felt the need to leave Demon. They are a little
more expensive on a like-for-like basis, though (note that email and
webspace are both extras on their basic package):
http://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband.html
--
Paul Terry
Craig Cockburn
<ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
broadband review and O2 seem to be getting a good reputation, anyone got
any experience with them?
I'm using Windows XP/Vista/7 if this is significant for further
recommendations and looking for around 10Mb bandwidth
Craig
Chris Marriott
"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@siliconglen.com> wrote in message
news:qyfrJxA6...@siliconglen.com...
> I'm using Windows XP/Vista/7 if this is significant for further
> recommendations and looking for around 10Mb bandwidth
Do you perhaps mean 10GB, or are you referring to download speeds?
Regards,
Chris
John Hall
Craig Cockburn <cr...@siliconglen.com> writes:
>I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad
>to say about the competition?
>
>I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>etc.
Since most readers of this group are inevitably going to be Demon users,
with in most cases little or no experience of other ISPs, you might do
better to ask on uk.net.providers
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"
Paul Terry
<cr...@siliconglen.com> writes
>Thanks for the recommendations so far. I also had a look at the Which?
>broadband review and O2 seem to be getting a good reputation, anyone
>got any experience with them?
Don't forget to check that the O2 LLU service is available at your
exchange - if it isn't, they charge over �22 a month for a service
limited to ADSL Max speeds (via the BT network).
--
Paul Terry
Paul C. Dickie
<cr...@siliconglen.com> writes
>I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad
>to say about the competition?
>
>I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>etc.
If you want 24/7 call centres, don't use Xilo.
Their service to date seems fairly reliable and it's certainly fast
enough, plus they don't mess around with speed capping or other
variations of Silly Buggers.
--
< Paul >
Paul C. Dickie
Be/O2 are less expensive!
https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/homepage
However, their call centre is in Bulgaria so there may be some problems
with intelligibility; when I called them, I could hardly understand what
they said.
--
< Paul >
Paul Terry
<ne...@nemesis.nu> writes
>www.zen.co.uk
>
>Brilliant, reliable service, customer service/help in the UK and
>winners of many a justified award.
So they should be, at what is now almost twice the price of Demon for a
broadly similar service (although without a number of Demon's extras).
--
Paul Terry
Pedt
Nov 2009, Paul Terry <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wibbled
--
Pedt
Amount of energy available from a barnyard atmosphere = 9.265 * 10^-24 Joules
Craig Cockburn
<ch...@nowhere.com> writes
Craig Cockburn
>to say about the competition?
>
>I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>etc.
>
>thanks
I'm using Windows XP/Vista/Windows 7 and already have a wireless router.
At the moment, based on Which? and Think Broadband reviews, O2 and Zen
seem to be the two front runners.
I'm really just looking for good customer service, fast speeds, reliable
connection. I would need access to usenet directly (NOT via the web).
Not bothered about email as I already host this separately. A static IP
would be useful, or at least a way of getting onto my home PC via remote
desktop (is a static IP actually necessary for this?)
thanks
Craig
Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:
>In article <fyEceaAO...@siliconglen.com>, cr...@siliconglen.com
>says...
>> I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad to
>> say about the competition?
>>
>> I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>> especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>> etc.
>
>www.zen.co.uk
>
>Brilliant, reliable service, customer service/help in the UK and
>winners of many a justified award.
The package I get with Demon at �28.26 a month would cost me �46.24 a
month with Zen. I'm not sure it's worth �17.98 a month extra just to
be able to call a local customer service that I may need once every
two or three years.
Steve
--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
Robert Sneddon
>> say about the competition?
>
>
>Brilliant, reliable service, customer service/help in the UK and
>winners of many a justified award.
Just don't try to contact Zen much outside office hours as there will
be no-one there to answer the phones (Indian accent or not).
From their webpages:
Technical Support
* 0845 058 9009 or 01706 902 009
* sup...@zen.co.uk
* 8am - 8pm weekdays
* 9am - 5pm weekends
Customer Services
* 0845 058 9000 or 01706 902 000
* customer...@zen.co.uk
* 9am - 5pm weekdays
Sales
* 0845 058 9000 or 01706 902 000
* business...@zen.co.uk or
* homeen...@zen.co.uk
* 9am - 5pm weekdays
Customer Billing
* 0845 058 9000 or 01706 902 000
* custome...@zen.co.uk
* 9am - 8pm Monday
* 9am - 5pm Tuesday to Friday
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Craig Cockburn
Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> writes
buy the �46 service? Is it just the unlimited downloads? I am rarely
home Mon-Fri so I am unlikely to hit download limits.
Both O2 and Zen seem to be comparable, with the O2 pro offering a
potentially faster speed for me (it's their equipment rather than BTs)
and unlimited downloads whereas Zen offer a 1 month cancellation policy
O2 have 24 hour support via an 0800 number
at 00:01 on Sunday they took over 10 minutes to answer the phone at
which point I gave up
Zen don't have 24 hour technical support but it is via an 01 number
which means it's free for me to call.
The O2 service is possibly the more attractive one for me, if there are
issues with the broadband during the week then I'll maybe end up fixing
them late on a Friday night, however being unable to get through at all
despite their allegedly good customer service is a worry.
Craig
Stephen Wolstenholme
<cr...@siliconglen.com> wrote:
>In message <luvbf5ttkiqcfsd3g...@4ax.com>, Stephen
>Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> writes
>>On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:20:43 -0000, Neil Barker <ne...@nemesis.nu>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <fyEceaAO...@siliconglen.com>, cr...@siliconglen.com
>>>says...
>>>> I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad to
>>>> say about the competition?
>>>>
>>>> I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>>>> especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>>www.zen.co.uk
>>>
>>>Brilliant, reliable service, customer service/help in the UK and
>>>winners of many a justified award.
>>
>>The package I get with Demon at �28.26 a month would cost me �46.24 a
>>month with Zen. I'm not sure it's worth �17.98 a month extra just to
>>be able to call a local customer service that I may need once every
>>two or three years.
>>
>What are the essential factors of the Demon service that require you to
>buy the �46 service? Is it just the unlimited downloads? I am rarely
>home Mon-Fri so I am unlikely to hit download limits.
>
I need 100MB of web and the HomeOffice 2+ data transfer rate. That
come to �28.26 with Demon. The same amounts with Zen would cost �46.24
so I stick with Demon.
Craig Cockburn
separately to my telephony and I have a 20Gb monthly transfer and 1.5Gb
diskspace for �9 a month.
Craig Cockburn
>In message <fyEceaAO...@siliconglen.com>, Craig Cockburn
><cr...@siliconglen.com> writes
>>I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad
>>to say about the competition?
>>
>>I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>>especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>>etc.
>>
>>thanks
>
>I'm using Windows XP/Vista/Windows 7 and already have a wireless router.
>
>At the moment, based on Which? and Think Broadband reviews, O2 and Zen
>seem to be the two front runners.
>
Zen Active 25Gb download
1 month contract
�21.27 a month
No 24 hour support
static IP
o2 Pro �22.02 a month, first 3 months free.
12 month contract
Free, 24 hour support, dedicated number
Unlimited download, likely to be faster than zen
static IP
Both companies getting similar ratings
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/compare.html?commit=Compare&isp_7=1&isp
_86=1&isp_21=1&isp_22=1&isp_84=1&isp_6=1
Big Les Wade
>
>Also, whilst email is offered as an extra with A&A, it's not even an
>optional extra with Be - they do not offer it at all.
Be does provide an SMTP server to deliver outgoing mail, so if you're
happy with using Gmail POP3 accounts you're OK.
I have to say, though, I have not found the link speeds very good. I
always *connect* at 8Mbit, but downloads are much slower.
Last thinkbroadband test gave
Speed Down 2439.74 Kbps ( 2.4 Mbps )
Speed Up 847.35 Kbps ( 0.8 Mbps
I suspect there is a lot of contention in our street :(
--
Les
Peter Ceresole
> Last thinkbroadband test gave
> Speed Down 2439.74 Kbps ( 2.4 Mbps )
> Speed Up 847.35 Kbps ( 0.8 Mbps
>
> I suspect there is a lot of contention in our street :(
It does vary, doesn't it? And it doesn't apparently matter who with. My
latest Thinkbroadband numbers (via Demon) were:
Down: 3846.43 Kbps
Up: 851.48 Kbps
They've been higher (just above 4Mbps); earlier this year they were
occasionally lower at around 2.3Mbps. But they seem pretty consistent
lately, at any time of day.
--
Peter
Stephen Wolstenholme
<{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Also, whilst email is offered as an extra with A&A, it's not even an
>optional extra with Be - they do not offer it at all.
I've always considered email to be the most important service of
ISP's. Any ISP that does not include email is a non starter so far as
I'm concerned.
Stephen Wolstenholme
Since I sorted out my internal telephone wiring and chucked out a
radiating printer my download and upload speeds have not varied.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/616634816.png
The speeds are not as fast as some people have reported but they are
never slow.
Jim Crowther
wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:10:12 +0000, Mike Henry
><{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Also, whilst email is offered as an extra with A&A, it's not even an
>>optional extra with Be - they do not offer it at all.
>
>I've always considered email to be the most important service of
>ISP's. Any ISP that does not include email is a non starter so far as
>I'm concerned.
Since leaving Demon I've always vowed to keep connectivity and email
(and news) providers separate. So far this has proved an excellent way
of conducting affairs - at some extra monetary cost of course. But for
me, far better value.
--
Jim Crowther
XILO Communications Ltd.
>
> If you want 24/7 call centres, don't use Xilo.
>
> Their service to date seems fairly reliable and it's certainly fast
> enough, plus they don't mess around with speed capping or other
> variations of Silly Buggers.
Something we're going to look at in the future... but that said, if
there was a fault and even if raised in the evening, BT for example
would not look at the issue until after 8am the next working day.
Matt
Paul C. Dickie
<L...@nowhere.com> writes
>I have to say, though, I have not found the link speeds very good. I
>always *connect* at 8Mbit, but downloads are much slower.
>
>Last thinkbroadband test gave
>Speed Down 2439.74 Kbps ( 2.4 Mbps )
>Speed Up 847.35 Kbps ( 0.8 Mbps
Poor you.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/125774269691916322975.html
:-)
>I suspect there is a lot of contention in our street :(
Did you recommend it to your neighbours?
--
< Paul >
Paul C. Dickie
Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> writes
>And it doesn't apparently matter who with. My
>latest Thinkbroadband numbers (via Demon) were:
>
>Down: 3846.43 Kbps
>Up: 851.48 Kbps
>
>They've been higher (just above 4Mbps); earlier this year they were
>occasionally lower at around 2.3Mbps. But they seem pretty consistent
>lately, at any time of day.
Snigger... :-)
--
< Paul >
Paul C. Dickie
Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:10:12 +0000, Mike Henry
><{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Also, whilst email is offered as an extra with A&A, it's not even an
>>optional extra with Be - they do not offer it at all.
>
>I've always considered email to be the most important service of
>ISP's. Any ISP that does not include email is a non starter so far as
>I'm concerned.
Perhaps their idea was that, if they didn't offer email, they'd not have
to deal with customers kvetching that POP3 was down?
--
< Paul >
Paul C. Dickie
<ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
Quite.
But please don't swap to Xilo - I like them the way they are.
--
< Paul >
Paul C. Dickie
Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> writes
>The package I get with Demon at �28.26 a month would cost me �46.24 a
>month with Zen. I'm not sure it's worth �17.98 a month extra just to
>be able to call a local customer service that I may need once every
>two or three years.
The-answer-to-that-is-whether-or-not-you-would-be-wanting-to-be-understan
dings-of-what-the-people-on-the-helpdesk-would-be-saying-to-you!
@:-) (A smiley with a turban, oh yes!)
--
< Paul >
Stephen Wolstenholme
My choice is to use Demon for connectivity, email and backup web. I
also use Google for email and GoDaddy for the my main web sites. So,
the only thing I really need Demon for is connectivity and, apart from
some problems with the switch to ADSL2+, the service has been first
class for years.
Stephen Wolstenholme
The very few times I have needed the help desk in the last ten years I
have had no problems with them understanding me or me understanding
them!
Big Les Wade
>
>Poor you.
>
>http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/125774269691916322975.html
You're still only getting 0.8 upload though ... so na-na.
>
>>I suspect there is a lot of contention in our street :(
>
>Did you recommend it to your neighbours?
No. Is contention an ISP-specific thing then? (i.e can Be Broadband be
heavily contended in a street whereas say Demon isn't? As you can see,
I'm a bit handicapped by not knowing how anything works upstream of my
telephone socket.)
My street does contain a lot of teenagers and students. I suspect they
are all watching live movies.
--
Les
If by creating a police state we can save just one child, then it will all have
been worthwhile.
Paul Terry
<L...@nowhere.com> writes
>Is contention an ISP-specific thing then? (i.e can Be Broadband be
>heavily contended in a street whereas say Demon isn't?
Before LLU became common, contention occurred on the BT network -
principally on the big pipes that connect the DSLAM (which is where the
ADSL component of your telephone line terminates) to the ISP's gateway,
which could be a very long line indeed. Contention could also occur
within the ISP's network.
With LLU, ISPs (or rather groups of ISPs) each have their own DSLAM in
the exchange, connected by leased lines to their own gateway(s), so they
are responsible for any contention issues.
I've seen very little sign of contention on Demon ADSL2+. The C&W
network they employ is said by samknows.com to be "probably the most
under-utilised large scale LLU network".
--
Paul Terry
Paul Terry
<p...@bozzie.unospace.net> writes
>But please don't swap to Xilo - I like them the way they are.
I doubt that Craig would notice much difference is he moved to Xilonet -
they use the same C&W network as Demon for their ADSL2+ service.
--
Paul Terry
Dr J R Stockton
Nov 2009 23:11:49, Craig Cockburn <cr...@siliconglen.com> posted:
>
>I'm really just looking for good customer service, fast speeds,
>reliable connection. I would need access to usenet directly (NOT
>via the web). Not bothered about email as I already host this
>separately.
I use <http://www.aioe.org/> & <http://www.eternal-september.org/>
in addition to Demon for NNTP News. <http://news.solani.org/> &
<http://albasani.net/index.html.en> also exist.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:
>In article <luvbf5ttkiqcfsd3g...@4ax.com>,
>st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk says...
>> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:20:43 -0000, Neil Barker <ne...@nemesis.nu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <fyEceaAO...@siliconglen.com>, cr...@siliconglen.com
>> >says...
>> >> I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad to
>> >> say about the competition?
>> >>
>> >> I have a preference for companies with good customer service, and
>> >> especially those that don't outsource their contact centres to India
>> >> etc.
>> >
>> >www.zen.co.uk
>> >
>> >Brilliant, reliable service, customer service/help in the UK and
>> >winners of many a justified award.
>>
>> The package I get with Demon at �28.26 a month would cost me �46.24 a
>> month with Zen. I'm not sure it's worth �17.98 a month extra just to
>> be able to call a local customer service that I may need once every
>> two or three years.
>
>Such is the benefit of a service that simply works, that you don't need
>to call a customer support number and there's a lot more to it than
>pure price. Zen don't set out to be the cheapest - they don't need to
>be.
I find that Demon works very well. Zen change much more than other
equally reliable services. One of the others in my company uses Zen
and lives very close to Zen in Rochdale. He has had problems with them
- they aren't perfect!
Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:
>In article <YWILiAFo...@nospam.demon.co.uk>,
>fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk says...
>> In message <MPG.255fd8e5e...@127.0.0.1>, Neil Barker
>> <ne...@nemesis.nu> writes
>> >In article <fyEceaAO...@siliconglen.com>, cr...@siliconglen.com
>> >says...
>> >> I was looking at alternatives to Demon - anyone got anything good/bad to
>> >> say about the competition?
>> >
>> >www.zen.co.uk
>> >
>> >Brilliant, reliable service, customer service/help in the UK and
>> >winners of many a justified award.
>>
>> Just don't try to contact Zen much outside office hours as there will
>> be no-one there to answer the phones (Indian accent or not).
>
>So what?
>
>So much is always made here of Zen's "lack of a 24hr customer support
>line". When the service simply works and should it go down is sorted
>very quickly, why would I need one?
>
I agree entirely. 24 hour support is rarely needed with any ISP unless
they have customers all over the world.
Big Les Wade
>
>I find that Demon works very well.
I did too, until it stopped.
The quality of a supplier's customer service department is never an
issue as long as the service works reliably. It's only when things go
wrong that you find out how important it is.
>Zen change much more than other
>equally reliable services. One of the others in my company uses Zen
>and lives very close to Zen in Rochdale. He has had problems with them
>- they aren't perfect!
No-one is. Even the best supplier can have a navvy stick his spade
through their cable. The question is: what do they then do to put it
right?
--
Les
Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:
>Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> posted
>>
>>I find that Demon works very well.
>
>I did too, until it stopped.
>
>The quality of a supplier's customer service department is never an
>issue as long as the service works reliably. It's only when things go
>wrong that you find out how important it is.
>
I know as I had problems with Demon with the switch to ADSL2+. No
customer service could have done more than prove it was a local fault
and transfer the problem the appropriate engineers. That's exactly
what happened.
>>Zen change much more than other
>>equally reliable services. One of the others in my company uses Zen
>>and lives very close to Zen in Rochdale. He has had problems with them
>>- they aren't perfect!
>
>No-one is. Even the best supplier can have a navvy stick his spade
>through their cable. The question is: what do they then do to put it
>right?
No ISP can fix that sort of problem but they can manage such problems.
Some have multiplex and distributed connectivity. With distributed
systems it is possible to be resilient to even earthquakes. It all
boils down to cost.
Paul C. Dickie
Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> writes
>I agree entirely. 24 hour support is rarely needed with any ISP unless
>they have customers all over the world.
As, of course, Demon does.
--
< Paul >
Stephen Wolstenholme
I don't think Demon have many customers outside the UK. In fact I
don't think are any UK based ISP's that have customers all over the
world.
Steve
Jim Crowther
wrote:
Rubbish. "Service Provision" doesn't just (or have to) include
connectivity.
I use several ISPs, often concurrently in the same IP session, or as in
the case of this post, at least three, one of which is outside the UK.
--
Jim Crowther
Stephen Wolstenholme
We are obviously talking about different things. I mean people who pay
Demon.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
I think you're being narrow minded.
I pay: Demon, A&A and Virgin.
Demon-wise, I'm omba.demon.co.uk
A&A host my wingsandbeaks.org.uk domain (for most but not all email & some
webspace).
VM provide me with connectivity (cable tv, not ADSL), plus a small amount of
email addresses.
Oh - and I get news from NIN.
So, like Jim, I use several ISPs.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "nnn" by "284".
Stephen Wolstenholme
<jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:55:04 +0000, Jim Crowther
>> <Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >I use several ISPs, often concurrently in the same IP session, or as in
>> >the case of this post, at least three, one of which is outside the UK.
>>
>> We are obviously talking about different things. I mean people who pay
>> Demon.
>
>I think you're being narrow minded.
>
Why do you think I'm narrow minded?
I use more than one service but only one ISP. I run a company and it
wouldn't be a very good move to depend on any one service. If Demon
dies tomorrow there are two other people who can carry on running the
company until I can move to another ISP.
My point is that there aren't many people outside the UK who pay Demon
but I'm sure there are many people within the UK who pay for services
other than Demon and non UK services.
I can't see why that's so difficult to understand.
Chloe
<st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> My point is that there aren't many people outside the UK who pay Demon
> but I'm sure there are many people within the UK who pay for services
> other than Demon and non UK services.
The company I used to consult for was based in pa.us, it's UK connectivity
was provided by.. Demon.
They often did need to talk to demon outside of "working hours", because
they were still working when the UK office was shut.
I'm sure they aren't the only company like that.
Chloe
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:49:43 +0000, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:55:04 +0000, Jim Crowther
> >> <Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
> >>
> > > > I use several ISPs, often concurrently in the same IP session, or as
> > > > in the case of this post, at least three, one of which is outside
> > > > the UK.
> >>
> >> We are obviously talking about different things. I mean people who pay
> >> Demon.
> >
> >I think you're being narrow minded.
>
> Why do you think I'm narrow minded?
Because you just replied to Jim saying:
"We are obviously talking about different things. I mean
people who pay Demon."
That only makes sense if you think that he (or other users) don't pay Demon.
I replied to point out that I also pay Demon, though you wouldn't know it
from my email address or domain name.
> I use more than one service but only one ISP.
Fine, but just because you only use one ISP doesn't mean everyone else also
only uses one.
> My point is that there aren't many people outside the UK who pay Demon
TBH I don't see the relevance of the "outside the UK" bit either. IIRC that
came up because you seemed to think that only people outside the UK would
want 24 hour support. I don't know why.
> but I'm sure there are many people within the UK who pay for services
> other than Demon and non UK services.
>
> I can't see why that's so difficult to understand.
It's not, but it's also not what you said.
Stephen Wolstenholme
<jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:49:43 +0000, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
>> <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:55:04 +0000, Jim Crowther
>> >> <Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> > > > I use several ISPs, often concurrently in the same IP session, or as
>> > > > in the case of this post, at least three, one of which is outside
>> > > > the UK.
>> >>
>> >> We are obviously talking about different things. I mean people who pay
>> >> Demon.
>> >
>> >I think you're being narrow minded.
>>
>> Why do you think I'm narrow minded?
>
>Because you just replied to Jim saying:
>
> "We are obviously talking about different things. I mean
> people who pay Demon."
>
>That only makes sense if you think that he (or other users) don't pay Demon.
>I replied to point out that I also pay Demon, though you wouldn't know it
>from my email address or domain name.
>
I mean people who pay Demon and are thus their customers. How else
could I define a customer.
>
>
>> I use more than one service but only one ISP.
>
>Fine, but just because you only use one ISP doesn't mean everyone else also
>only uses one.
>
>
>> My point is that there aren't many people outside the UK who pay Demon
>
>TBH I don't see the relevance of the "outside the UK" bit either. IIRC that
>came up because you seemed to think that only people outside the UK would
>want 24 hour support. I don't know why.
>
>
That's the point. Global presence required 24 hour support. I often
work well into the night using the Internet but there's no way I need
support during the night.
>> but I'm sure there are many people within the UK who pay for services
>> other than Demon and non UK services.
>>
>> I can't see why that's so difficult to understand.
>
>It's not, but it's also not what you said.
Fair enough.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:00:31 +0000, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:49:43 +0000, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> >> <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:55:04 +0000, Jim Crowther
> >> >> <Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
> >> >>
> > > > > > I use several ISPs, often concurrently in the same IP session,
> > > > > > or as in the case of this post, at least three, one of which is
> > > > > > outside the UK.
> >> >>
> > > > > We are obviously talking about different things. I mean people who
> > > > > pay Demon.
> >> >
> >> >I think you're being narrow minded.
> >>
> >> Why do you think I'm narrow minded?
> >
> >Because you just replied to Jim saying:
> >
> > "We are obviously talking about different things. I mean
> > people who pay Demon."
> >
> > That only makes sense if you think that he (or other users) don't pay
> > Demon. I replied to point out that I also pay Demon, though you wouldn't
> > know it from my email address or domain name.
> >
>
> I mean people who pay Demon and are thus their customers. How else
> could I define a customer.
No-one is disputing that someone who pays Demon is a customer. The question
is why you thought that when Jim said:
> I use several ISPs, often concurrently in the same IP session,
> or as in the case of this post, at least three, one of which is
> outside the UK.
you thought it made sense to reply:
> We are obviously talking about different things. I mean people who
> pay Demon.
What part of what he said implied people who /don't/ pay Demon?
Do you not see that I, for one, don't understand your reply? Or, put it
another way, why did you mention payment at all?
> >> My point is that there aren't many people outside the UK who pay Demon
> >
> > TBH I don't see the relevance of the "outside the UK" bit either. IIRC
> > that came up because you seemed to think that only people outside the UK
> > would want 24 hour support. I don't know why.
>
> That's the point. Global presence required 24 hour support. I often
> work well into the night using the Internet but there's no way I need
> support during the night
Bully for you. What about businesses in the UK who do work all hours? It's
not global presence that requires 24 hour cover, it's understanding that
customers don't only work 9-5.
hugh
>On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:55:04 +0000, Jim Crowther
><Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>In demon.service, on Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:22:05, Stephen Wolstenholme
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:59:10 +0000, "Paul C. Dickie"
>>><p...@bozzie.unospace.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <fmjif5lsr8t2dgl3j...@4ax.com>, Stephen
>>>>Wolstenholme <st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>>>I agree entirely. 24 hour support is rarely needed with any ISP unless
>>>>>they have customers all over the world.
>>>>
>>>>As, of course, Demon does.
>>>
>>>I don't think Demon have many customers outside the UK. In fact I
>>>don't think are any UK based ISP's that have customers all over the
>>>world.
>>
>>Rubbish. "Service Provision" doesn't just (or have to) include
>>connectivity.
>>
>>I use several ISPs, often concurrently in the same IP session, or as in
>>the case of this post, at least three, one of which is outside the UK.
>
>We are obviously talking about different things. I mean people who pay
>Demon.
>
>Steve
>
was an issue in getting access to BBC content which was only to be
available to residents in the UK under some rights agreements.
--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?
John Hall
hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> writes:
>I believe Demon have a number of customers in Holland. At one time this
>was an issue in getting access to BBC content which was only to be
>available to residents in the UK under some rights agreements.
There certainly once was a Dutch branch of the company. However if you
put in a URL of www.demon.nl it redirects to www.xs4all.nl. A bit of
googling came up with this:
http://www.xs4all.nl/nieuws/bericht.php?id=763&taal=en
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"
Craig Cockburn
spam.me.uk> wrote:
> In demon.service, on Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:46:35, Stephen Wolstenholme
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:10:12 +0000, Mike Henry
> ><{$mrtickl...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>Also, whilst email is offered as an extra with A&A, it's not even an
> >>optional extra with Be - they do not offer it at all.
>
> >I've always considered email to be the most important service of
> >ISP's. Any ISP that does not include email is a non starter so far as
> >I'm concerned.
>
> Since leaving Demon I've always vowed to keep connectivity and email
> (and news) providers separate. So far this has proved an excellent way
> of conducting affairs - at some extra monetary cost of course. But for
> me, far better value.
>
> Jim Crowther
What do you use for news?
thanks
Craig Cockburn
Stockton <repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk> writes
>In demon.service message <uJca3JB1...@siliconglen.com>, Sat, 7
>Nov 2009 23:11:49, Craig Cockburn <cr...@siliconglen.com> posted:
>>
>>I'm really just looking for good customer service, fast speeds,
>>reliable connection. I would need access to usenet directly (NOT
>>via the web). Not bothered about email as I already host this
>>separately.
>
>I use <http://www.aioe.org/> & <http://www.eternal-september.org/>
>in addition to Demon for NNTP News. <http://news.solani.org/> &
><http://albasani.net/index.html.en> also exist.
>
Glad to see the back of the hateful Demon Contact Centre
Craig
--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). Director, Siliconglen.com Ltd
Web project manager and Internet specialist. CITP. C.Eng
http://www.siliconglen.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/siliconglen