Why I stopped working on the Deluge project
Arnab Bose
I thought it over. And I came to a conclusion. This is where I stand. No further I go.
Let me elaborate with some examples. Note they are paraphrases, may not be the exact sentences since I may not remember them word by word.
0) I proposed a suggestion in the forum, where I clearly outlined how the progressbar ought to look, keeping up with other torrent clients which are popular among people. I also offered to work on it myself, if allowed to. Markos: "Of course you are allowed, this is a free world :-)"
1) Next day when I submit the patch, Markos: "I'm impressed, you put it together so quickly!" - This is what you said when I gave you the first patch. Well, you *should* be impressed. I picked up Python, Gtk in one day to create a patch for your program, to add a feature that was missing, which most other popular torrent clients have. Knowing all these, you ought to be impressed. If I were in your place, I'd be impressed too.
2) Markos: "I hope you will stick around!" - And I said I will, it would be my honor. Well, I'm afraid it be very unlikely, due to the reasons I'm about to elaborate in this mail.
3) Markos: "Should we have the progressbar above or like before in the statistics box?" I convinced you that atop is a better alternative, since that way the length is not limited. The progressbar then expands with the window, thus enabling the user to see more details. You agreed.
4) Markos: "It is fine, except that the bar doesn't repaint for paused torrents. Could you check that bug?" I happily did.
On the next day, andar presents his thoughts, "Honestly, I don't see the use of it. Why would someone want to see which parts of the torrent has being downloaded?" Dude, why do you think someone would want to know when the tracker is going to be announced next? Why would someone want to know how many peers are connected? The users should be okay with only seeing the percentage of the torrent been downloaded in a text format, when they query. Isn't it? Why would they need any GUI at all?!
Now here comes the twist. After that incident.
6) Markos, Ander: "We should set it as a preference, since it wastes CPU and the user might not want it." Honestly, I don't see how it significantly contributes to the CPU usage as the progressbar is updated once per second! In any case, the progressbar drawing mechanism is infinitesimal compared to the other things that are going on, even in the screen updating cycle called every second. And about forcing the progressbar to the users, please do a google search on popular torrent client interfaces. Look around a bit.
Still, I set the progressbar to be enabled by preferences.
7) Markos: "Why do we have two progress bars now?" I am perplexed as I recall I took care to display only one, either the standard or the new progressbar based on user's preference. Then you explain with a screenshot (and I have copied it here http://www.flickr.com/photos/36905172@N00/1766921563/), turns out the second progress bar is the one that is displayed in the 'Status' column with each torrent, where all the torrents are displayed. Doesn't quite clear the puzzle for me. Didn't you already have 2 progressbars before also??!
6) As a reply when I ask that, Markos: "May be (when the user enables it) you can put it in the statistics box in place of where the standard progressbar used to be. The new progressbar looks too goofy. I don't like it." Wtf??! It suddenly looks too goofy? You suddenly don't like it? What happened dude? And you want me to put it in the statistics box again, which we discussed before (3)? You ask me to believe you'd accept the work if I did as you bid??
There is no honor working in this project anymore. I wouldn't even get involved, unless I knew you'd accept my work. That is precisely the reason I asked "if I am allowed to" do it. Hell, now I know libtorrent well enough that if I had the time or the need, I could write my own bindings on libtorrent and create a GUI for myself with gtkmm.
Well, good luck mate. Fare thee well. You feel free to do with my code as you wish, ignore it, rip it, reinvent it, upto you.
Unfortunately, this was my first experience in collaborative open source programming in linux.
Marcos Pinto
this on the same day that we were launching a stable version and a new
website. we have a lot of things going on, so if we werent quick to
reply to you or commit your changes, i'm sorry, but we do have full
time jobs and other things to worry about. like i've said before, i
appreciated your work and liked it. i still like your bar. what i
dont like is its location. when i said i wanted to option to swap the
standard bar with the advanced bar, i assumed the advanced bar would
be in the same location as the standard bar. your patch didnt do that
and that's what i found to be goofy. i think there's just been a
language problem which caused some misunderstandings, and if you're
willing to ever work with us again, you'd be more than welcome. i
still like your bar and once things settle down a bit, i hope to
commit it with a location change.
thanks
Andrew Resch
> the use of it. Why would someone want to see which parts of the
> torrent has being downloaded?" Dude, why do you think someone would
> want to know when the tracker is going to be announced next? Why would
> someone want to know how many peers are connected? The users should be
> okay with only seeing the percentage of the torrent been downloaded in
> a text format, when they query. Isn't it? Why would they need any GUI
> at all?!
I didn't mean to dismiss your work, I just like to explore the reasoning
behind any change and make sure what we are doing is the true to goals
of the project. By asking this question, I wanted to point out that not
all users would find this useful and that we should consider making it
optional. Just because I don't find something useful, doesn't mean that
others won't.. You retorted with some valid points as to why it would be
useful and that was all I wanted; to show a need.
> Now here comes the twist. After that incident.
> 6) Markos, Ander: "We should set it as a preference, since it wastes
> CPU and the user might not want it." Honestly, I don't see how it
> significantly contributes to the CPU usage as the progressbar is
> updated once per second! In any case, the progressbar drawing
> mechanism is infinitesimal compared to the other things that are going
> on, even in the screen updating cycle called every second. And about
> forcing the progressbar to the users, please do a google search on
> popular torrent client interfaces. Look around a bit.
> Still, I set the progressbar to be enabled by preferences.
The one major goal of Deluge is stay as lightweight as possible and give
the user the freedom to choice which features they wish to use. I
understand that using this new bar may not significantly use more CPU
time, but we should still present the option for the user to turn it
off. This is why the majority of functionality is located in plugins,
so that users can decide what they want and don't want.
I personally would use the old-style bar, because I don't have a need to
few the specific pieces downloaded and I am sure there others like me.
I am also pretty sure there are more people who would want to use your
bar. Let's give them the option.
> Unfortunately, this was my first experience in collaborative open
> source programming in linux.
I think that you need to understand that there is a process involved
with adding new features or changing functionality in the project. You
started it off by submitting a patch with the changes for our review.
We looked it over and gave you our thoughts, discussed the changes and
offered opinions in how it can be modified. This process will keep
continuing until we come to a consensus on how the change should look
and fit into the program. Just because we don't accept the 1st, 2nd or
3rd revision does not mean we don't want to apply your patch, it just
means we feel there is more discussion warranted and that some more
tweaks may be necessary to 'fit' the piece into the whole.
I am sorry that you are discouraged with how this process works.. It can
be a bit difficult to adjust to at times (I have problems with it myself
sometimes). We all want things done our own way and it can be difficult
to please everyone's individual vision and (sometimes) more importantly,
that of the users.
All in all, it just takes a little bit of patience and communication. I
apologize if the communication has been confusing or if we've come off
as disrespectful of your efforts.
Cheers,
Andrew
Frederick
could get a word in here, I would certainly like you to continue
supporting and working on the project, and I would like you guys to
settle this issue so I can start looking at the new progressbar in my
Deluge window. :) I think everyone seems to be willing to come to some
acceptable compromise or agreement...
seladangganas
Jon
it really close to utorrent bar (http://download.utorrent.com/
screenshots/utorrent3.png)
Also, I think you shouldnt put everything in plugins, because some
people they dont see the plugins tab and the first impression for them
is that the client has a lack of features.
I would really like Arnab to continue in this great project, as I find
his ideas really good.