winter tires in Germany
Vito
to read this post ....
Early December we want to come to Germany for a few days, we already
booked a hotel, but now people told me I have to mount 'winter tires' on
my car because that's what German law says. If it's snowy or there's some
ice on the road I must use the right tires for that kind of weather.
I do have 2 such tires to my disposal (my car vendor is prepared to give
them to me when I leave), but people say that's not enough, I have to use
winter tires on all wheels.
Is this true?
Are German policemen very hard when a foreigner doesn't have winter tires?
If law it's too hard, I have to cancel my hotel, and that's something I
don't want to do, I like Germany (we come to Cochem every year).
Many thanks for your answers.
Vito
Frank Hucklenbroich
> Early December we want to come to Germany for a few days, we already
> booked a hotel, but now people told me I have to mount 'winter tires' on
> my car because that's what German law says.
The law says that you have to have "appropriate tires" on your car. On a
dry, warm, sunny day you can drive with normal (summer) tires. Only when it
is icy or there is snow you have to have winter-tires. The law is quite new
by the way.
> If it's snowy or there's some
> ice on the road I must use the right tires for that kind of weather.
Thats right.
> I do have 2 such tires to my disposal (my car vendor is prepared to give
> them to me when I leave), but people say that's not enough, I have to use
> winter tires on all wheels.
>
> Is this true?
When there is ice and snow you need 4 winter tires, yes.
> Are German policemen very hard when a foreigner doesn't have winter tires?
Usually not. It is more a matter of insurance - when you wreck your car due
to inappropriate tires, the insurance-company could try to deny to pay for
the accident.
The police may fine you if you block the road because you have improper
tires on your car (as happens with trucks often). But they normally don't
run around checking tires.
> If law it's too hard, I have to cancel my hotel, and that's something I
> don't want to do, I like Germany (we come to Cochem every year).
The fine is not that high, something between 20 and 40 Euros (40 EUR if you
actually blocking traffic, otherwise 20 EUR). But in my experience it is
unlikely to get fined for that - as I said the law is quite new and not
really strictly enforced.
Nevertheless it can be a good idea to have winter-tires on when driving in
the snow. On the other hand - chances are quite slim to have really snow
covered roads in early December, unless you get to higher areas of bavaria
or the black forest. In Cochem I would find it very unlikely to have snow
early December.
Regards,
Frank
Radbert Grimmig
>booked a hotel, but now people told me I have to mount 'winter tires' on
>my car because that's what German law says.
That is the overgeneralized interpretation of the actual law that your
typical, obsessively safety-minded German holds =;-)
>If it's snowy or there's some
>ice on the road I must use the right tires for that kind of weather.
That is a fairly accurate rendition of the actual law. Note the
difference: As long as there's no ice or snow on the actual road
you're driving on, it's perfectly legal to drive on summer tires at
any time of the year.
>I do have 2 such tires to my disposal (my car vendor is prepared to give
>them to me when I leave), but people say that's not enough, I have to use
>winter tires on all wheels.
>
>Is this true?
Yes.
>Are German policemen very hard when a foreigner doesn't have winter tires?
Don't know.
>If law it's too hard, I have to cancel my hotel, and that's something I
>don't want to do, I like Germany (we come to Cochem every year).
All you need to do is not drive in actual snow or ice with summer
tires and you're fine.
If you're unwilling to risk being grounded if it should actually snow,
I don't think I quite understand the math of your holiday plans. You
wrote "vendor" - so do you mean to say you're actually buying and
insuring a car here but don't have another 80 to 100 Euros to spend on
two more cheap-ass Chinese or retread snow tires?
Or are you renting the car? In that case, getting a full set of snow
tires for the rental period can't even be that expensive.
In any case, you might just want to consider where exactly you want to
go in that car and your and your hosts' experience with the climate
there. While I think the winter is usually very mild in the actual
Mosel and Rhine valleys, the surrounding hills may quickly climb up a
few hundred meters. In the Eifel for example you've got a good chance
of seeing some ice and snow in the weeks before Christmas. And I
certainly shouldn't want to be caught in such conditions on summer
tires.
Also note that while tires carrying the "M+S" marking are sufficient
in the eyes of the law, the manufacturers may put that on any tire
they want, while the "snowflake" symbol means the tire really has been
tested against NHTSA standards.
--
Gru�
Radbert
Vito
> Nevertheless it can be a good idea to have winter-tires on when driving
> in the snow. On the other hand - chances are quite slim to have really
> snow covered roads in early December, unless you get to higher areas of
> bavaria or the black forest. In Cochem I would find it very unlikely to
> have snow early December.
Thanks for your reply .... we will drive to Warstein-Hirchberg, I have no
idea what weather conditions can occur there in early december ...
Vito
Vito
> If you're unwilling to risk being grounded if it should actually snow, I
> don't think I quite understand the math of your holiday plans. You wrote
> "vendor" - so do you mean to say you're actually buying and insuring a
> car here but don't have another 80 to 100 Euros to spend on two more
> cheap-ass Chinese or retread snow tires?
>
> Or are you renting the car? In that case, getting a full set of snow
> tires for the rental period can't even be that expensive.
It's my own car :-)
The garage owner where I got my car from (he's a family member and from
Belgium too) is willing to place 2 winter-tires for free on my car, of
course only for the duration of our 2 days trip. I know now that's
insufficient.
Up to now I only was in Germany in summertime, in Cochem, Poltersdorf,
Traben-Trarbach, Koblenz and so on ... but now I like to go to Warstein-
Hirschberg and I have no idea what weather conditions to expect there in
early december.
To be honest the whole thing of those winter-tires scared me .... I don't
want to do something illigal and I do want to take responsability but I'm
not going to buy new winter-tires for the 2 days I'm in Germany during
wintertime.
Unless I can get them very cheap :-)
I know I had to to think twice ....
I do hope I don't have to cancel my reservation. I had very good
experiences all the times I was in Germany.
Vito
Frank Hucklenbroich
Warstein is on the edge of Sauerland with elevations up to about 500
metres. There could be snow up there in early December, and especially
smaller country-roads could be icy. Maybe you find a chance to get some
cheap winter-tires to be on the safe side?
Not really regarding the law (as I said, it is rarely enforced), but your
safety.
Regards,
Frank
Radbert Grimmig
>Up to now I only was in Germany in summertime, in Cochem, Poltersdorf,
>Traben-Trarbach, Koblenz and so on ... but now I like to go to Warstein-
>Hirschberg and I have no idea what weather conditions to expect there in
>early december.
That is too close to a wintersport resort for comfort. I live in the
vicinity and would not risk driving around without real snow tires
there in December. Which reminds me... haven't put them on yet, and
this is my first winter with a rear-wheel drive car in quite some
time... I should be in the garage right now.
That said, in the past few years, as far as I can remember, we just
got a foot or so in the last week before Christmas, which melted away
in time for Christmas Eve, and the next batch usually didn't arrive
till mid-January.
>To be honest the whole thing of those winter-tires scared me ....
What scares ME is Americans driving in the snow on summer tires. I had
to drive in Wichita during a snow storm last year and it is absolutely
beyond me why anyone would do this to themselves. In the Sauerland in
Winter, while by no means a guaranteed-snow zone, and while it must
have been several years since conditions have been as bad as in that
night in Kansas, the cost and the law should be the least of your
worries.
>not going to buy new winter-tires for the 2 days I'm in Germany during
>wintertime.
They're not going to cost you (much) more than a tank full of gas, and
it is your vacation, which makes every wasted minute especially
precious. A single drift into a tree, armco or vehicle will be not
just be even more expensive but also time-consuming. Let alone the
risk of injuring others. In the end, you'd probably pay just for some
peace of mind, but still...
--
Gru�
Radbert
trallala
They dont board a train ICE without
having a seat reservation
( what if there is no space...)
result : half reserved seats are not taken.....
in holiday abroad, they can get up at 5AM to
reserve a beach space with thir towel.
( what if there is no space....)
Hepefully, other countries dont understand
this king of reservation, so expect heavy
missunderstandings. Now, they have hotels
only with Germans, so all understand the rules (:-)
This tire law is a perfect thing for
the tire business
"Radbert Grimmig" <gri...@cityweb.de> a �crit dans le message de news:
4ae8369f$0$6579$9b4e...@newsspool3.arcor-online.net...
trallala
the car makers lobbies
wants to have this law,
otherwise
it becomes too obvious
that all expensive the high tech from German cars
ABS, ESP and so on
will not help anyway at all
But, if you have a car without all this electronic / software
BUT with new winter tires, it will work good
without all this ficky ficky electronic, but dont tell anybody !
"Michael Holzt" <sp...@fqdn.org> a �crit dans le message de news:
slrnhegfj...@stfu.fqdn.org...
> trallala wrote:
>> They dont board a train ICE without
>> having a seat reservation
>
> BS.
>
>> result : half reserved seats are not taken.....
>
> Even more BS.
>
>> in holiday abroad, they can get up at 5AM to
>> reserve a beach space with thir towel.
>
> Common myth. Some do, as some englishman do too.
>
>> This tire law is a perfect thing for
>> the tire business
>
> It's for road safety, dumbass. I've seen to many "summer tire grandpas"
> endangering themself and others in winter time.
>
> --
> "And guess what software Osama Bin Laden uses on his laptop? [...] Osama
> uses
> Linux because he knows [it is] designed to counterfeit DVDs, circumventing
> the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, and defraud companies like Disney."
> -- http://www.shelleytherepublican.com
Vito
>>not going to buy new winter-tires for the 2 days I'm in Germany during
>>wintertime.
>
> They're not going to cost you (much) more than a tank full of gas, and
> it is your vacation, which makes every wasted minute especially
> precious. A single drift into a tree, armco or vehicle will be not just
> be even more expensive but also time-consuming. Let alone the risk of
> injuring others. In the end, you'd probably pay just for some peace of
> mind, but still...
Well you convinced me .... tomorrow we are going to check the price of
winter-tires, in fact we maybe have to buy only two of them.
Don't worry, if we decide not to buy them we will not come to Warstein
that time of year, we really are not only concerned about the safety of
ourselves but in fact more of the safety of other people.
But hey, that's why we are Flemish for :-)
Vito
Vito
> in holiday abroad, they can get up at 5AM to reserve a beach space with
> thir towel. ( what if there is no space....)
Dutch people do that too, and Belgians (like me).
> Hepefully, other countries dont understand this king of reservation, so
> expect heavy missunderstandings. Now, they have hotels only with
> Germans, so all understand the rules (:-)
I agree that it's difficult for other countries to understand the winter-
tires law, but to me it makes sense that safety is a priority in a
country with heavy winters. In Belgium we seldom have this, so there is
no law about winter-tires.
Well, being a Flemish Belgian I know in my country many things go
wrong ... just because. But let's not talk about that.
> This tire law is a perfect thing for
> the tire business
From every law somebody benifits, that's nothing new.
Vito
Radbert Grimmig
>Well you convinced me .... tomorrow we are going to check the price of
>winter-tires,
reifen.de usually has some cheap ones on offer, and a database of
cheapish workshops to get them mounted, which will run you another 10
to 15 Euros per tire. My own last set of summer tires was bought via
reifen.com, they sometimes have interesting bargains. Both sites are
only German language though, as far as I see it.
I don't know know any good English language weather site but there's
bound to be one. weather.com doesn't know "Warstein, Germany" which I
think is a bad sign despite the awful beer they brew there =;-)
wetter.de is again German language.
As for web access, my recommendation for Germany might be some sort of
3G adapter for your laptop and the Simyo package, which will run you
�9,90 for up to 1 GB within 30 days. Open WiFi hotspots are far
thinner on the ground than in the US, so you waste way too much time
searching, and you pay through your nose booking an hour's worth of
access at McDonalds and such.
Another thing that you might want to pay attention to is traffic jams,
for in contrast to US interstates, in Germany there is a good chance
of one occuring on every autobahn, not just near big cities but even
way out in the sticks, especially near Christmas, in bad weather, or
near road construction sites, which the autobahns are awash with. A
Satnav with TMC/DRG is a nice thing to have here.
--
Gru�
Radbert
Vito
> I don't know know any good English language weather site but there's
> bound to be one. weather.com doesn't know "Warstein, Germany" which I
> think is a bad sign despite the awful beer they brew there =;-)
> wetter.de is again German language.
>
I use this one:
http://www.weather-forecast.com/locations/Warstein/forecasts/latest
Vito
trallala
and the liability issue with the insurance,
concerns only German contracts anyway
if you have a foreigh plate, dont care...
"wannes" <m...@nospam.invalid> a �crit dans le message de news:
slrnhegq...@wannes.invalid...
> Vito schreef:
>>
>> It's my own car :-)
>> The garage owner where I got my car from (he's a family member and from
>> Belgium too) is willing to place 2 winter-tires for free on my car, of
>> course only for the duration of our 2 days trip. I know now that's
>> insufficient.
>
> It's a good idea to drive with winter tires in Belgium too.
> I'm changing my reugular tires for winter ones when the temperature
> drops below 7 degrees.
>
> It's a common mistake that winter tires are for driving in snowy and icy
> conditions. They are for driving in _cold_ conditions, wet or dry.
>
>
> --
> wannes, from Belgium :-)
> <http://www.briachons.org/>
Gerd Schweizer
> Early December we want to come to Germany for a few days, we already
> booked a hotel, but now people told me I have to mount 'winter tires' on
> my car because that's what German law says. If it's snowy or there's some
> ice on the road I must use the right tires for that kind of weather.
>
Hello Vito, if Wintertires then in Your own interest four of them. Do
You have the possibility, to take the decision few days before
departure? Perhaps there is a local news group near Warstein, where You
could ask for normal weather conditions in december.
If there is no ice or snow, You don't need winter tires.
By the way, did You already consider the possibility of a car rent? Only
for few days?
--
Liebe Grüße, Gerd - Hier steht die Satelliten FAQ,
PC-Tipps, Mopped, Katzen, Garten, Heimwerken:
http://www.satgerd.de/
trallala
motorways if you dont understand
the meaning of the sign
"Nur bei N�sse"
under the 80 km/h Sign ?
Do they assume ewerybody understand German ?
This really creates Traffic Jams (;-)
"Gerd Schweizer" <ge...@satgerd.de> a �crit dans le message de news:
hca6p4$fqm$03$1...@news.t-online.com...
> Vito schrieb:
>
>> Early December we want to come to Germany for a few days, we already
>> booked a hotel, but now people told me I have to mount 'winter tires' on
>> my car because that's what German law says. If it's snowy or there's some
>> ice on the road I must use the right tires for that kind of weather.
>>
> Hello Vito, if Wintertires then in Your own interest four of them. Do You
> have the possibility, to take the decision few days before departure?
> Perhaps there is a local news group near Warstein, where You could ask for
> normal weather conditions in december.
> If there is no ice or snow, You don't need winter tires.
> By the way, did You already consider the possibility of a car rent? Only
> for few days?
> --
> Liebe Gr��e, Gerd - Hier steht die Satelliten FAQ,
Frank Hucklenbroich
> wetter.de is again German language.
If Vito is flemish I think he would understand enough German to read a
German weather-forecast. It's mostly numbers and little
sunshine/cloud-symbols anyway ;-)
Regards,
Frank
Vito
I have indeed not much problems in understanding German, but speaking and
writing it is very difficult :-)
Vito
Jens Müller
> how can you drive on german
> motorways if you dont understand
> the meaning of the sign
>
>
>
> under the 80 km/h Sign ?
I had similar problems in Italy ...
Gerd Schweizer
> I have indeed not much problems in understanding German, but speaking and
> writing it is very difficult :-)
Don't worry, Vito, You seam not to come to Bavaria ;-)
--
Liebe Grüße, Gerd - Hier steht die Satelliten FAQ,
Vito
> Vito schrieb:
>
>> I have indeed not much problems in understanding German, but speaking
>> and writing it is very difficult :-)
> Don't worry, Vito, You seam not to come to Bavaria ;-)
At the moment there's no ice or snow so we decided to drive to Warstein
today ... that's around 330 km from home, but my wife insist we take a
look. And as we all know ... what the woman wants the man must do :-)
In an hour or seo we drive to Warstein ...
Vito
Martin Hoffmann
> Vito schrieb:
>
>>To be honest the whole thing of those winter-tires scared me ....
>
> What scares ME is Americans driving in the snow on summer tires.
Just coming back from Quebec where Avis is of the opinion, that having
Winter tires in Canada starting mid-November is early enough. Needless
to say, there was 15 cm of new snow in the area I originally intended
to go to ...
Regards,
Martin