Snopes is highly unreliable
anarchrosis
"Had they done any checking, they would have quickly discovered that
nothing so much as vaguely resembling that level of carnage had
occurred in Minnesota. Not in 1987. Not ever.)"
It's interesting that Snopes, supposedly the great guardian against
urban superstitions, allowed this ridiculous line to be posted.
Barbara "oh, ya!" Mikkelson would have us believe that serial killings
or other such crimes of serious carnage have never occurred in
Minnesota... Had she done any checking (or just crawled out from under
her rock) she would know "that level of carnage" HAS occurred in
Minnesota. Many times. Just check the crime statistics or look up
"Harvey Carignan" for starters. Is Snopes in the business of debunking
urban legends or creating new ones?
anarchrosis
John
"anarchrosis" <anarc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7f77ffb0.03062...@posting.google.com...
Are you suggesting that Fargo IS based on a true story?
As between you and Snopes, I believe Snopes.
James Linn
Perhaps you ought to take things a little less literally.
My reading of the Snopes intent is to say that: No one has done anything
which resembles the crimes depicted in Fargo(i.e. chopping up victims in a
wood chipper, high death count in short period of time etc), ergo the crimes
depicted in Fargo are not based on real life incidents.
You chose to fixate on the "level of carnage" versus the whole context.
BTW I looked up Harvey.Carignan, and while he did commit some murders and
was a brutal human being, its not like the Fargo story.
James "though there are lots of pedants around here you can argue
with,should you choose" Linn
Kat Dyer
>
> Are you suggesting that Fargo IS based on a true story?
>
> As between you and Snopes, I believe Snopes.
OTOH they're wrong about the microwaved poodle story... my soon to be ex
actually helped clean up after a woman on his street who had just bought
a microwave... she was evidently used to putting her very small dog in
her oven on very low to dry it (to keep it from getting too chilled) for
a minute and thought she could do the same in the microwave (the early
models were large enough to cook a turkey in... she came running out of
the house in hysterics and Kent & another boy in the neighborhood went
into her house to see what had happened. They were kind enough to clean
up for her. As I recall he was about 10, so this would have been
around 1977ish.
Kat
Grand Inquisitor
Snopes, among many other urban legend books and movie sites, has its
inaccuracies. Usually they are political in nature.
--
"It is dark, you are likely to be eaten by a grue."
--Zork
Grand Inquisitor
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=Oost
Stephen Cooke
There was a case in the Midwest of a man killing his wife, storing her
body in the freezer, and then renting a woodchipper to dispose of her
frozen remains (he thought he was clever by doing it on a riverbank and
spraying the remains into the water, but there was a witness who saw him
from a bridge). I saw an hour-long documentary on the forensic
investigation that finally convicted the guy on PBS. But I think that's
about as close a connection to a true story as Fargo gets.
swac
Lee Rudolph
>There was a case in the Midwest of a man killing his wife, storing her
>body in the freezer, and then renting a woodchipper to dispose of her
>frozen remains (he thought he was clever by doing it on a riverbank and
>spraying the remains into the water, but there was a witness who saw him
>from a bridge). I saw an hour-long documentary on the forensic
>investigation that finally convicted the guy on PBS.
K.D., is that you?
Lee "`the Midwest' is even further from Connecticut than
`upstate New York'!" Rudolph
shund
Yes...one mistake in wording thoroughly debunks the entire site.
Get a job.
--
:::shund:::
anarchrosis
No. I suggested what I actually wrote. I never wrote that "Fargo is
based on a true story." Mikkelson wrote that a level of carnage
comparable to what is portrayed in Fargo has never happened in
Minnesota. I wrote that this is utter nonsense. As anyone acquainted
with the criminal statistics and history of Minnesota knows, violent
crimes as horrific and bloody as those depicted in *Fargo* HAVE
occurred in that state.
> As between you and Snopes, I believe Snopes.
You believe that Minnesota has no history of serial murders or other
serious violent crimes? Makes you look pretty gullible.
John Hibbert
<Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.103...@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca>
,
Stephen Cooke <am...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:
> I saw an hour-long documentary on the forensic
> investigation that finally convicted the guy on PBS.
I am glad that PBS did what the courts didn't do.
John "sentenced to life on the telethon phone desk" Hibbert
±
Times have changed.
Snopes is no longer reliable.
--
"This is off topic in malta.test" - Ross
<uproarious hilarity>
http://www.geocities.com/snuhsite
-
Rebecca Ore admits to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet that stalking me
didn't produce the desired affect:
Sender: reb...@pyrophore.ogoense.local
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
Subject: Re: trouble on rec.food.sourdough & other groups
From: Rebecca Ore <ogoen...@verizon.net>
Organization: Rebecca's
Message-ID: <m3k7clh...@pyrophore.ogoense.local>
Feuer, you can find the name, address, photos, and all that jazz on
Usenet about Dean Humphreys and you still won't be able to do anything
to get him out of your group unless you ignore him.
Soapy is his virtual girl friend until when she's not.
--
Rebecca Ore
http://mysite.verizon.net/rebecca.ore
madkevin
"Grand Inquisitor" <zo...@GUETech.edu> wrote in message
news:3xJIa.97$xv...@fe3.columbus.rr.com...
> anarchrosis wrote:
> > From http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/fargo.htm:
> >
> > "Had they done any checking, they would have quickly discovered that
> > nothing so much as vaguely resembling that level of carnage had
> > occurred in Minnesota. Not in 1987. Not ever.)"
> >
> > It's interesting that Snopes, supposedly the great guardian against
> > urban superstitions, allowed this ridiculous line to be posted.
> > Barbara "oh, ya!" Mikkelson would have us believe that serial killings
> > or other such crimes of serious carnage have never occurred in
> > Minnesota... Had she done any checking (or just crawled out from under
> > her rock) she would know "that level of carnage" HAS occurred in
> > Minnesota. Many times. Just check the crime statistics or look up
> > "Harvey Carignan" for starters. Is Snopes in the business of debunking
> > urban legends or creating new ones?
>
> Snopes, among many other urban legend books and movie sites, has its
> inaccuracies. Usually they are political in nature.
As opposed to, say, Usenet posters.
================
"Final Cogliano"
Wolf333
Have you tried contacting them? Snopes is usually pretty good about
admitting their errors.
As for them being "highly unreliable..." - the main question was whether or
not the events in the movie "Fargo" actually happened. The answer was no,
which is true. Cettainly, one can say that all of these things had taken
place at some time, but never all at once, as part of the same situation.
--
______
"Nothing says 'clown' like a fat, bald guy who enjoys stripping. He sure
fills me with whimsy. Wait, that's not whimsy... that's not whimsy at
all!" - somethingaweful.com
Michael Wolfe
aa # 1912
______
Grand Inquisitor
>>Snopes, among many other urban legend books and movie sites, has its
>>inaccuracies. Usually they are political in nature.
>
>
> As opposed to, say, Usenet posters.
>
> ================
> "Final Cogliano"
>
>
Hey, I never said USENET posters were saints.
Silicon Shaman
don't you ?
Not that we mind you all dropping by and playing in our little corner of
Usenet, but if'n you don't intend to, would you all mind editing the
Newsgroups: part to your own sections please !
Thanks ever so.
--
Silicon.shaman
"Any technology, no matter how primitive,
is magic to those who don't understand it."
Florence Ambrose-Wolf
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/06/2003
LePheaux
"Silicon Shaman" <Silicon...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bd0apt$dor$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Hey, you all know that this thread is being cross posted to hell and gone
> don't you ?
> Not that we mind you all dropping by and playing in our little corner of
> Usenet, but if'n you don't intend to, would you all mind editing the
> Newsgroups: part to your own sections please !
> Thanks ever so.
>
<<>>>
Douglas Berry
anarc...@yahoo.com (anarchrosis) warmed at our fire and told this
tale:
>No. I suggested what I actually wrote. I never wrote that "Fargo is
>based on a true story." Mikkelson wrote that a level of carnage
>comparable to what is portrayed in Fargo has never happened in
>Minnesota. I wrote that this is utter nonsense. As anyone acquainted
>with the criminal statistics and history of Minnesota knows, violent
>crimes as horrific and bloody as those depicted in *Fargo* HAVE
>occurred in that state.
Having never seen the film.. isn't Fargo in North Dakota?
--
Douglas Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com
Athesist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
When in trouble, or in doubt
Eun in circles, screa, and shout.
Bob Ward
<grid...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On 20 Jun 2003 14:11:52 -0700, a wanderer, known to us only as
>anarc...@yahoo.com (anarchrosis) warmed at our fire and told this
>tale:
>
>>No. I suggested what I actually wrote. I never wrote that "Fargo is
>>based on a true story." Mikkelson wrote that a level of carnage
>>comparable to what is portrayed in Fargo has never happened in
>>Minnesota. I wrote that this is utter nonsense. As anyone acquainted
>>with the criminal statistics and history of Minnesota knows, violent
>>crimes as horrific and bloody as those depicted in *Fargo* HAVE
>>occurred in that state.
>
>Having never seen the film.. isn't Fargo in North Dakota?
Are you thinking of Perth?
TMOliver
> "John" <Nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
>> As between you and Snopes, I believe Snopes.
>
> You believe that Minnesota has no history of serial murders
> or other serious violent crimes? Makes you look pretty
> gullible.
If concentrated carnage is what you'er after (and it
concentrated with a few moments), Minnesota's hallmark must have
been the "Great Northfield Raid", hardly serialized murder, but
in a scale and intensity fully comparable to Frago (and with
more wounded).
TM "Props by Messrs Smith and Wesson*" Oliver
*Add'l contributions by C&W, Parker and LCSmith
Lon Stowell
> On 20 Jun 2003 14:11:52 -0700, a wanderer, known to us only as
> anarc...@yahoo.com (anarchrosis) warmed at our fire and told this
> tale:
>
>
>>No. I suggested what I actually wrote. I never wrote that "Fargo is
>>based on a true story." Mikkelson wrote that a level of carnage
>>comparable to what is portrayed in Fargo has never happened in
>>Minnesota. I wrote that this is utter nonsense. As anyone acquainted
>>with the criminal statistics and history of Minnesota knows, violent
>>crimes as horrific and bloody as those depicted in *Fargo* HAVE
>>occurred in that state.
>
>
> Having never seen the film.. isn't Fargo in North Dakota?
Actually it is, but even though I was born in Minot/Max area,
I claim to be from Montana. Fargo is just following a longtime
NoDak tradition of claiming to be from elsewhere.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> There was a case in the Midwest of a man killing his wife, storing her
> body in the freezer, and then renting a woodchipper to dispose of her
> frozen remains (he thought he was clever by doing it on a riverbank and
> spraying the remains into the water,
Well, yes, I suppose. The Housatonic _is_ midwest as
opposed to where I am living right now. And I have to
go west, crossing the Housatonic when I visit my
brother in Newtown, former home of the notorious
Richard Crafts. But the two factors which raised the
greatest suspicion is that 1: he was doing this in
the middle of a snowstorm and 2: he thoroughly cleaned
the wood chipper before returning it to the rental
store.
Charles
--
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the
chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony
road-makers run daft -- they say it is to see how
the warld was made!"
Eric Pepke
> Are you suggesting that Fargo IS based on a true story?
Both _Psycho_ and _The Texas Chainsaw Massacre_ were based
on the same true story, which gives a good idea of how true a
movie adaptation has to be.
Brent McKee
"Douglas Berry" <grid...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:q7q7fv8dc74neplqa...@4ax.com...
> On 20 Jun 2003 14:11:52 -0700, a wanderer, known to us only as
> anarc...@yahoo.com (anarchrosis) warmed at our fire and told
this
> tale:
>
> >No. I suggested what I actually wrote. I never wrote that "Fargo is
> >based on a true story." Mikkelson wrote that a level of carnage
> >comparable to what is portrayed in Fargo has never happened in
> >Minnesota. I wrote that this is utter nonsense. As anyone
acquainted
> >with the criminal statistics and history of Minnesota knows,
violent
> >crimes as horrific and bloody as those depicted in *Fargo* HAVE
> >occurred in that state.
>
> Having never seen the film.. isn't Fargo in North Dakota?
Most of the movie seems to take place on the Moorhead side of the Red
River, but would _you_ go to a movie called "Moorhead"?
--
Brent McKee
To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from
the email address
"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly,
in one which is infinitely worse."
- Margaret Atwood
"Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more
constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of
openness to novelty. "
- Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)
Douglas Berry
"Brent McKee" <bSm...@shaw.caN> warmed at our fire and told this
tale:
>> Having never seen the film.. isn't Fargo in North Dakota?
>
>Most of the movie seems to take place on the Moorhead side of the Red
>River, but would _you_ go to a movie called "Moorhead"?
Um.. I'd rent it for viewing in the privacy of my own home.
--
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
Lars Zerpich
Blablabla auf Englisch.
Jetzt schreibt auf deutsch, das ist eine deutschsprachige NG hier.
mfg lars
Doug
Fargo is NOT based on a true story, but...
> As between you and Snopes, I believe Snopes.
...what he's objecting to is the assertion that "that level of
carnage" has NOT occurring in Minnesota, "not ever."
Which is untrue. Bad people have done bad things in Minnesota, same
as every other place.
Doug
David Pinero
Sort of related to this is the potential for Snopes or a site LIKE it
to obfuscate information circulating through the internet. What I
wonder sometimes is what if the internet had been around during
Watergate or the release of the Pentagon Papers. Can you imagine the
power of one website to essentially destroy all informal claims of
corruption?
A site like Snopes can be an effective tool for powers that want to
limit the credibility of information by influencing a story status.
How would the ground swell of controversy over Watergate been hindered
had someone typed "burglar" and "president" into the Snopes search
engine and had the only story talking about it come up FALSE?
In a way, scary and effective. I think the original poster has a
deeper point whether he knows it or not. Snopes has become some de
facto authority where further research into many strange and seemingly
implausible stories live or die. Sooner or later someone is going to
tap into that power.
Dave
Stephen Cooke
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Brent McKee wrote:
> "Douglas Berry" <grid...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:q7q7fv8dc74neplqa...@4ax.com...
> > On 20 Jun 2003 14:11:52 -0700, a wanderer, known to us only as
> > anarc...@yahoo.com (anarchrosis) warmed at our fire and told
> this
> > tale:
> >
> > >No. I suggested what I actually wrote. I never wrote that "Fargo is
> > >based on a true story." Mikkelson wrote that a level of carnage
> > >comparable to what is portrayed in Fargo has never happened in
> > >Minnesota. I wrote that this is utter nonsense. As anyone
> acquainted
> > >with the criminal statistics and history of Minnesota knows,
> violent
> > >crimes as horrific and bloody as those depicted in *Fargo* HAVE
> > >occurred in that state.
> >
> > Having never seen the film.. isn't Fargo in North Dakota?
>
> Most of the movie seems to take place on the Moorhead side of the Red
> River, but would _you_ go to a movie called "Moorhead"?
I'd love to see a biopic about ol' Agnes!
swac
Subtitled: Mama Raised a Kane
me
[snipe]
> A site like Snopes can be an effective tool for powers that want to
> limit the credibility of information by influencing a story status.
> How would the ground swell of controversy over Watergate been hindered
> had someone typed "burglar" and "president" into the Snopes search
> engine and had the only story talking about it come up FALSE?
It would have had to been more than one story. Watergate
was a variety of stories over a long period of time. In fact,
using the expression "ground swell" and Watergate together is
a tad misleading. The story "died" several times before getting
any real legs. And the movie not withstanding, the story
really "broke" because folks on the inside started talking.
> In a way, scary and effective. I think the original poster has a
> deeper point whether he knows it or not. Snopes has become some de
> facto authority where further research into many strange and seemingly
> implausible stories live or die. Sooner or later someone is going to
> tap into that power.
Not that one can't think of a way to do this, but any story with
enough power to WANT to do this is probably one that is powerful enough
to overcome the influence of snopes. Snopes is a bit like a tack hammer.
It drives tacks well. It can even drive slightly larger nails. It can
even drive a 16 penny through soft enough wood. But it's gonna be
pretty useless on a rail spike.
If anyone is gonna try to tap into such "power" it'll prolly be
some advertising guy trying a gimmick.
carla
> facto authority where further research into many strange and seemingly
> implausible stories live or die.
>
I am vividly reminded of this fact every time someone vectors one of
the "lost legends."
carla
Lon Stowell
> Sort of related to this is the potential for Snopes or a site LIKE it
> to obfuscate information circulating through the internet. What I
> wonder sometimes is what if the internet had been around during
> Watergate or the release of the Pentagon Papers. Can you imagine the
> power of one website to essentially destroy all informal claims of
> corruption?
>
> A site like Snopes can be an effective tool for powers that want to
> limit the credibility of information by influencing a story status.
> How would the ground swell of controversy over Watergate been hindered
> had someone typed "burglar" and "president" into the Snopes search
> engine and had the only story talking about it come up FALSE?
This is really more of an issue for search engines, e.g. the
google method of raising the hit in a search result based on
the number of other sites that point to the hit. The actual
validity of the result has no bearing on the issue, only
how widely it is pointed to. Worse, there is no parsing
of these cross-references as to whether the linking site
is pointing to the hit as a cite or as a bad example of
mis-information...only the fact that it is pointed to.
So if someone were to post highly bogus information, and
every other site on the internet pointed to that bogus
information as an example of bogus information, the bogus
original site would be at the top of a google search.
This really calls for a congressional investigation, say
an expert committee on bogosity, for which there are many
qualified candidates to choose from in congress.
>
> In a way, scary and effective. I think the original poster has a
> deeper point whether he knows it or not. Snopes has become some de
> facto authority where further research into many strange and seemingly
> implausible stories live or die. Sooner or later someone is going to
> tap into that power.
The black helicopters are already circling, like buzzards,
waiting for the slightest indication of weakness.
Perry Sailor
> anarc...@yahoo.com (anarchrosis) warmed at our fire and told this
> tale:
>
> >No. I suggested what I actually wrote. I never wrote that "Fargo is
> >based on a true story." Mikkelson wrote that a level of carnage
> >comparable to what is portrayed in Fargo has never happened in
> >Minnesota. I wrote that this is utter nonsense. As anyone acquainted
> >with the criminal statistics and history of Minnesota knows, violent
> >crimes as horrific and bloody as those depicted in *Fargo* HAVE
> >occurred in that state.
>
> Having never seen the film.. isn't Fargo in North Dakota?
(1) Rent it today. You owe it to yourself.
(2) Yes, it's in North Dakota, but the whole movie takes place in Minnesota,
except (IIRC) a brief scene at the end involving Macy's character in a
motel. I think the title is just off-the-wall Coen Bros. humor.
Perry
Dan Fingerman
Lon Stowell wrote at Mon 23 Jun 2003 09:51:48, in
<news:3EF7301D...@attbi.com>:
> This is really more of an issue for search engines, e.g. the
> google method of raising the hit in a search result based on
> the number of other sites that point to the hit. The actual
> validity of the result has no bearing on the issue, only
> how widely it is pointed to. Worse, there is no parsing
> of these cross-references as to whether the linking site
> is pointing to the hit as a cite or as a bad example of
> mis-information...only the fact that it is pointed to.
> So if someone were to post highly bogus information, and
> every other site on the internet pointed to that bogus
> information as an example of bogus information, the bogus
> original site would be at the top of a google search.
Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.
Google just finished defending a lawsuit by an upstart, SearchKing,
whose business model was based on something like what you describe.
PageRank is Google's trademark for the ranking system you describe.
SearchKing sold PageRank positioning by establishing something akin to
webrings with many links to the page being promoted. Google altered
its search results to reduce the rank of pages promoted in this
manner, and SearchKing took Google to court for interfering with
business relations. This blog entry has a good summary of the issues
and links to primary material:
<http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?
name=News&file=article&sid=1147>
If line wrap is a problem, try: http://tinyurl.com/f2ef
--
DTM :<|
Frank McCoy
Hmmm ... Somewhat like about the *only* information you can find on
some kinds of overzealous civil lawsuits is the propaganda put out by
the ABA?
Yeah, it is kind of scary, isn't it?
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Richard Casady
wrote:
> The black helicopters are already circling, like buzzards,
> waiting for the slightest indication of weakness.
Under certain not uncommon lighting conditions, Army green helos look
black. I may have seen an actual black helo under those conditions,
and figured it was some, any, fairly dark color.
Casady
Therion Ware
In point of fact no one has seen a black helicopter, at least not for
very long, because they're very efficient and tend to be the last
thing one ever sees.
Lord Vetinari
news:47fce7f2....@news.east.earthlink.net...
People are constantly mistaking fuligen helicopters for black ones. Truth
be told, it's an easy mistake to make.