What is the Toronto Top 5 Open Data Wishlist?

[Neil McEvoy]

 

Hi folks

 

In the New York 'Digital City Roadmap' plan, one key theme was stimulating local economic innovation, through more open data startups, etc.

 

As part of reviewing this they interviewed these entrepreneurs, to ask for their top 5 wish list from the city, and these were listed as:

1. Engineering Talent
2. Broadband Connectivity
3. Real-time API of NYC Data and Services
4. Faster Procurement Process
5. Visibility of RFPs

What would be your Top 5 for Toronto?

 

Cheers,

 

---
Neil McEvoy
Founder and President
Level 5 Consulting
http://L5Consulting.net
neil....@l5consulting.net

[Marcel Fortin]

Here are my top six...not necessarily in this order

- Land use
- Zoning
- ESM topo mapping
- Enterprise Stereoscopic Model
- The data behind this map of year built:
http://www.toronto.ca/torontomaps/catalogue/pdf/m20.pdf (of course
Teranet/MPAC would have to OK that one)
- City Water/Sewer Digital Map data

> neil....@l5consulting.net <mailto:neil....@l5consulting.net>

[Brian Sutherland]

Hi,

I think Marcel's list is more focussed around the type of datasets...more to the point of this group.

City Water/Sewer Digital Map data is a really good one, you can put it together with the tree database to figure out where tree roots are affecting city services, or 'where to dig'.

A UK company did this recently.
http://www.perey.com/AugmentedRealityForBasel/winners-and-awards/#Mashup%20Experience


--
Brian Sutherland

neil....@l5consulting.net <mailto:neil.mcevoy@l5consulting.net>

[Marcel Fortin]

Actually, my datasets that I listed are actual datasets that exist as is
with the city. Have a look here:
http://www.toronto.ca/torontomaps/catalogue/index.htm

On 12-02-24 4:20 PM, Brian Sutherland wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think Marcel's list is more focussed around the type of
> datasets...more to the point of this group.
>
> City Water/Sewer Digital Map data is a really good one, you can put it
> together with the tree database to figure out where tree roots are
> affecting city services, or 'where to dig'.
>
> A UK company did this recently.
> http://www.perey.com/AugmentedRealityForBasel/winners-and-awards/#Mashup%20Experience
>
>
> --
> Brian Sutherland
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Marcel Fortin
> <marcel...@utoronto.ca <mailto:marcel...@utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
> Here are my top six...not necessarily in this order
>
> - Land use
> - Zoning
> - ESM topo mapping
> - Enterprise Stereoscopic Model
> - The data behind this map of year built:

> http://www.toronto.ca/__torontomaps/catalogue/pdf/m20.__pdf

> <http://www.toronto.ca/torontomaps/catalogue/pdf/m20.pdf> (of course
> Teranet/MPAC would have to OK that one)
> - City Water/Sewer Digital Map data
>
>
> On 12-02-24 8:01 AM, Neil McEvoy wrote:
>
> Hi folks
> In the New York 'Digital City Roadmap' plan, one key theme was
> stimulating local economic innovation, through more open data
> startups, etc.
> As part of reviewing this they interviewed these entrepreneurs,
> to ask
> for their top 5 wish list from the city, and these were listed as:
>
> 1. Engineering Talent
> 2. Broadband Connectivity
> 3. Real-time API of NYC Data and Services
> 4. Faster Procurement Process
> 5. Visibility of RFPs
>
> What would be your Top 5 for Toronto?
> Cheers,
> ---
> Neil McEvoy
> Founder and President
> Level 5 Consulting
> http://L5Consulting.net
> neil....@l5consulting.net

> <mailto:neil....@l5consulting.net>
> <mailto:neil.mcevoy@__l5consulting.net
> <mailto:neil....@l5consulting.net>>
>
>
>
>

[Neil McEvoy]

 

So in short the main item in demand that would help, would simply be more data sets? No tools, no sponsor funding for projects??

 

Also what drives the publication of data sets? Is there any policy requirements to do so, or is it just whoever decides to do so?

 

Thanks, Neil.

[James McKinney]

You did ask the DataTO group :P Of course you get a bias towards data. I didn't see tools or funding in the NYC list either, though of course cash is great. If you're in TO, you really should talk to MaRSDD, as this is what their focus is.

In terms of what drives dataset publication, it's different from city to city. For Toronto, Reham Gorgis answers in this interview: http://webrebrand.blogspot.com/2012/02/data-eh-interviews-reham-gorgis-open.html#.T0p5SXJSRk8

In all cases, what drives publication at first is how easy it is to release. Afterwards, it's a combination of how much demand there is and how much legwork is required (to put it simply). I don't know of any jurisdiction that has a broad policy or law saying what must be made available as open data. Open data is still very much voluntary.

Individual laws often have requirements for publication, which in Canada leaves the publication under Crown copyright, hence not open data. These publications are rarely in machine-readable format, which is no surprise as many laws predate electronic publication. The publication of House of Commons bills and speeches as XML, for example, is voluntary.

[Marcel Fortin]

Small clarification in your response below though James. As odd as it
may seem, while provincial and federal government data fall under
crown-copyright, municipal level data do not.

>> *From:*Brian Sutherland <mailto:bksuth...@gmail.com>
>> *To:*dat...@googlegroups.com <mailto:dat...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Sent:*Friday, February 24, 2012 4:20 PM
>> *Subject:*Re: [DataTO] What is the Toronto Top 5 Open Data Wishlist?

>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think Marcel's list is more focussed around the type of
>> datasets...more to the point of this group.
>>
>> City Water/Sewer Digital Map data is a really good one, you can
>> put it together with the tree database to figure out where tree
>> roots are affecting city services, or 'where to dig'.
>>
>> A UK company did this recently.
>> http://www.perey.com/AugmentedRealityForBasel/winners-and-awards/#Mashup%20Experience
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Sutherland
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Marcel
>> Fortin<marcel...@utoronto.ca

>> <mailto:marcel...@utoronto.ca>>wrote:

>>
>> Here are my top six...not necessarily in this order
>>
>> - Land use
>> - Zoning
>> - ESM topo mapping
>> - Enterprise Stereoscopic Model
>> - The data behind this map of year

>> built:http://www.toronto.ca/__torontomaps/catalogue/pdf/m20.__pdf

[James McKinney]

Sure, in that case it's under the copyright of the publishing government or authority. Whatever the details, it's not like in the US, where government documents are generally public domain. In Canada, copyright must expire for works to enter the public domain. Of course, it's possible to apply a license to a work to make it in practice the same as being in the public domain. In any case, my point isn't to be rigidly precise about the exact copyright status of government works - it's just to point out that in Canada it is necessary for governments to explicitly adopt open licenses, without which those works are protected by copyright.

[Neil McEvoy]

 

sure I meant the data part too, I just phrased the question wrong. In short I was looking to understand and identify where any log jams might be, that I could help with being a business rather than technical guy.

 

one simple answer would seem to be startup/funding. it seems there is a general lack of investment finance in Canada that holds back all startups, and would therefore include open data ones too. however equally I'm not sure how many folks here are doing this from a new venture & entrepreneurial position any way, versus personal time and no immediate interest in making it a business, etc.

 

it would seem more that the first limitation is simply the amount of demand/ knowledge from the agencies, for the need and value of releasing open data.

 

so it would seem the most logical point of leverage to focus would be to push for a law - Ie. All data must be released as Open unless specifically prohibited from doing so due to Privacy, etc.

[Marcel Fortin]

I guess my point was though, oddly expressed as it was, that there are
no real copyright issues that are not under their own government control
that prevents them from releasing data. In other words, it's basically
policy rather than law that prevents municipal governments from
releasing data. Which is something much easier to dispose of compared to
law.

As well, many would argue that any database/spreadsheet/geospatial data
file is uncopyrightable to start with. Copyright law is pretty clear
that data cannot fall under copyright. Algorithms do, but that has more
to do with any software that may have been created around the data, not
the data themselves.

[James McKinney]

On 2012-02-27, at 7:27 AM, Marcel Fortin wrote:

I guess my point was though, oddly expressed as it was, that there are no real copyright issues that are not under their own government control that prevents them from releasing data. In other words, it's basically policy rather than law that prevents municipal governments from releasing data. Which is something much easier to dispose of compared to law.

Indeed - though still an extra step compared to the US :)

As well, many would  argue that any database/spreadsheet/geospatial data file is uncopyrightable to start with. Copyright law is pretty clear that data cannot fall under copyright. Algorithms do, but that has more to do with any software that may have been created around the data, not the data themselves.

In this CIPPIC report [1] in section 7, Kent Mewhort writes: "The originality requirement for copyright in Canada requires that there is “skill and judgment” in the creation of a work for copyright to subsist in a work (see CCH Canadian Ltd. v. Law Society of Upper Canada, 2004 SCC 13).  No copyright applies to pure “data”; thus, in some cases, you may be free to redistribute datasets that are only comprised of data.

"The exact threshold for “data” versus a copyrighted work is not clearly defined under Canadian law. Copyright can subsist even in the arrangement of data, and even in short strings of text where skill and judgment is involved.  Many typical “open data” datasets are likely to meet the minimum originality threshold for copyright to apply.  Thus, your best approach is to request permission to redistribute each unlicensed dataset from the copyright owner."

1. http://www.cippic.ca/sites/default/files/CIPPIC%20-%20How%20to%20Redistribute%20Open%20Data.pdf

Those who argue that databases/spreadsheets etc. aren't copyrightable may learn an expensive lesson in court!

[Neil McEvoy]

Thanks guys.

Here is the reason and context for my questions, 'Canada's Data Strategy' -

http://canadacloud.biz/2012/02/27/canadas-data-strategy/

I'd especially welcome some comments from you guys,

cheers Neil.

[Reham Gorgis]

Yes..we have a policy. It's now posted online.

>>> "Neil McEvoy" <neil....@l5consulting.net> 2/26/2012 9:15 AM >>>

[Reham Gorgis-Youssef]

Have you checked us out lately?

 

Here's what new:

1. Clerk's Directory of Record for Record Series Management Tool (RSMT)
2. Clerks - Record Classification System - Authoritative Source (RSMT)
3. Clerks - Record Classification System - Internally Approved (RSMT)
4. Elections - Official By-Election Results for 2010 to 2014 Term
5. Long-Term Care Locations, City Operated
6. Supportive Housing Locations, City Operated

Here's what refreshed:

1. Freedom of Information Requests Summary
2. Parking Tickets
3. Street Tree Data

Here's what you have to look out for:

 

NextBus data will not be available on the following dates due to scheduled network maintenance:

April 14--15: 11 p.m. Saturday to 11 a.m. Sunday (12 hours)
May 5--6: 11 p.m. Saturday to 2 p.m. Sunday (15 hours)

 

Here's what's HAPPENING:

 

http://www.eventbrite.ca/event/3120311937

 

Brought to you by....

Reham Gorgis (soon to change last name to Youssef) from the Open Data Team.