DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the
DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo.
Here is a snippet from their email:
---QUOTE
Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website,
located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that
is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat.
Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and
white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
In the interests of transparency and community participation - I
wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your
advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest
(by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor
tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
I'm not a lawyer...but with that said, I fail completely to see the claimed "identical" nature.
The '8' thing is similar but that is a common symbol and the data port one filles it differently. Then it is set in a completely different body surrounding it.
That '8' infinity part they speak of I see quite a lot on celtic designs.
I could understand if the data port group was issuing an OS, that potentially there could be a question or two raised but this is absurd.
Regards
Lee / Skype: leedyburgh \ Emerging Comms Conference / March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > Here is a snippet from their email:
> ---QUOTE
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
I wasn't aware of the Fedora logo, but looking at the two side by side, I'd say there is definitely a potential conflict, and while I do not agree with their statement that the DP log is "identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo", it is close enought that there is an issue to be resolved.
As to tweaks, I am at work, but will see if I can put something together in MSPaint if you are just looking for suggestions :)
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good afternoon everyone,
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > Here is a snippet from their email:
> ---QUOTE
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
Well.. the logos are similar, and if it were parody or commentary on Fedora and RedHat, it would be fine, esp because DP is a non-profit and isn't doing business commercially with it.
But I can't see how DP could claim that the d-logo is parody or commentary, and I think they are right, it could be confusing and the point of trademark is to keep confusion away from the public.
I'd say you'll probably have to change it but maybe you could negotiate with them, bring them into the fold?
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > Here is a snippet from their email:
> ---QUOTE
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
That is... I could make campbell's lawnmowers and not conflict with campbell's soup, these are two unrelated items and confusion is unlikely. Similarly I think there is very little risk of confusion between dataportabilty and an operating system.
but maybe trademarks work differently for logo's (I don't think they do).
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good afternoon everyone,
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > Here is a snippet from their email:
> ---QUOTE
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 5:07 PM, mary hodder <hod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well.. the logos are similar, and if it were parody or commentary on > Fedora and RedHat, > it would be fine, esp because DP is a non-profit and isn't doing > business commercially with it.
not to quote Wikipedia or anything but
"The extent to which a trademark owner may prevent unauthorized use of trademarks which are the same as or similar to its trademark depends on various factors such as whether its trademark is registered, the similarity of the trademarks involved, the similarity of the products and/or services involved, and whether the owner's trademark is well known."
so it seems to me we have a few questions to answers
1) are the trademarks similar? yes almost certainly
2) are the products and services similar? Not really at all (they involve computers but that's about it)
3) is the trademark well known? Well...none of us noticed it. The mark is probably well known to fedora users!
> But I can't see how DP could claim that the d-logo is parody or > commentary, and I think they > are right, it could be confusing and the point of trademark is to > keep confusion away from the public.
> I'd say you'll probably have to change it but maybe you could > negotiate with them, bring them into > the fold?
> Sorry about that.
> On Feb 21, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Chris Saad wrote:
> > Good afternoon everyone,
> > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > > Here is a snippet from their email:
> > ---QUOTE
> > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
I've registered quite a few TMs in my time, both graphic and text and had Cease and Desist notices for various matters before - I'd not move. The offerings are in different categories and the logos are not confusingly similar.
But there is a quick fix - flip the infinity part by 90deg. So if you wish to avoid more letters just do that.
Regards
Lee / Skype: leedyburgh \ Emerging Comms Conference / March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
On 22/02/2008, anders conbere <aconb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Aren't trademarks only good in a certain domain?
> That is... I could make campbell's lawnmowers and not conflict with > campbell's soup, these are two unrelated items and confusion is > unlikely. Similarly I think there is very little risk of confusion > between dataportabilty and an operating system.
> but maybe trademarks work differently for logo's (I don't think they do).
> ~ Anders
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good afternoon everyone,
> > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > > Here is a snippet from their email:
> > ---QUOTE
> > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > Here is a snippet from their email:
> ---QUOTE
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
Chris Saad wrote: > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
Not really, as they two logos are different. The briefcase background vs. the teardrop thing and the fill of the infinity symbol are both different. In particular, the fill on the DP infinity symbol doesn't give the visual effect of an 'f' character.
That said, legitimate in this context reduces to what would occur (or not) in a given courtroom on a given day. If it went far enough to be litigated, a court might find them to be conflicting or not. It's almost impossible to predict. :-(
However, they are just similar enough, that I could see how *somebody* (rightly or wrongly) could find them to conflict. I think we would be better off just changing the DP logo and not making a fuss over it.
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
That should be fine just make sure that it is known DP has not made an official statement or reaction to it and this is more an internal discussion on what should be done.
> Unless you object - I am going to highlight this email to The > Register, Giga Om and Tech Crunch?
> Regards
> Lee > / Skype: leedyburgh > \ Emerging Comms Conference > / March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
> On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good afternoon everyone,
>> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the >> DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. >> Here is a snippet from their email:
>> ---QUOTE
>> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, >> located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work >> that >> is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. >> Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green >> and >> white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
>> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I >> wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your >> advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
>> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
>> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you >> suggest >> (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a >> minor >> tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
>> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
There are two considerations here, not one. 1. Could we get away with it? 2. Do we want the bad PR associated with the fight?
The PR element is a nasty one. Why show ourselves to be hardasses? We are trying to portray ourselves as good for the community. This may be a necessary evil...
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Lee Dryburgh <drybur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Unless you object - I am going to highlight this email to The > Register, Giga Om and Tech Crunch?
> Regards
> Lee > / Skype: leedyburgh > \ Emerging Comms Conference > / March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
> On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good afternoon everyone,
> > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > > Here is a snippet from their email:
> > ---QUOTE
> > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
> There are two considerations here, not one. > 1. Could we get away with it? > 2. Do we want the bad PR associated with the fight?
> The PR element is a nasty one. Why show ourselves to be hardasses? We > are trying to portray ourselves as good for the community. This may be > a necessary evil...
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Lee Dryburgh <drybur...@gmail.com> > wrote:
> > Unless you object - I am going to highlight this email to The > > Register, Giga Om and Tech Crunch?
> > On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Good afternoon everyone,
> > > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > > > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > > > Here is a snippet from their email:
> > > ---QUOTE
> > > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your > website, > > > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work > that > > > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > > > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green > and > > > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> > > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > > > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > > > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> > > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> > > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you > suggest > > > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a > minor > > > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> > > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
> There are two considerations here, not one. > 1. Could we get away with it? > 2. Do we want the bad PR associated with the fight?
> The PR element is a nasty one. Why show ourselves to be hardasses? We > are trying to portray ourselves as good for the community. This may be > a necessary evil...
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Lee Dryburgh > <drybur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Unless you object - I am going to highlight this email to The >> Register, Giga Om and Tech Crunch?
>> Regards
>> Lee >> / Skype: leedyburgh >> \ Emerging Comms Conference >> / March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
>> On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the >>> DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora >>> logo. >>> Here is a snippet from their email:
>>> ---QUOTE
>>> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your >>> website, >>> located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art >>> work that >>> is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. >>> Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the >>> green and >>> white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
>>> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I >>> wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your >>> advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
>>> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
>>> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you >>> suggest >>> (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a >>> minor >>> tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
>>> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
> There are two considerations here, not one. > 1. Could we get away with it? > 2. Do we want the bad PR associated with the fight?
> The PR element is a nasty one. Why show ourselves to be hardasses? We > are trying to portray ourselves as good for the community. This may be > a necessary evil...
But you're spinning it wrong :) We aren't being hardasses, we're the helpless open standards fighters that are being pounced on by a cold heartless corporation (not my real opinion).
I think the real answer is that we should talk to the folks at redhat, find what they want, see how we can walk away amicably, and if they're not cooperative we should decide what to do then.
> > On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Good afternoon everyone,
> > > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > > > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > > > Here is a snippet from their email:
> > > ---QUOTE
> > > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > > > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > > > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > > > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > > > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> > > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > > > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > > > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> > > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> > > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > > > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > > > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> > > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > Here is a snippet from their email:
Quick question... was this the first contact from Red Hat about this? I mean, did they try a polite request to change the logo first, then send the C&D? Or did they send in the lawyers as the first step?
I'm not a lawyer, but I am a mathematician - and I see lots of
differences.
Fedora's image is infinity/8 with "f" shaded, all within a quote-type
structure.
DataPortability is infinity/8 with "d" shaded, all within a briefcase.
If a person were to trace the "8"...
... they could trace the Fedora "8" forever without stopping
... for DP, they would have to make their pencil jump/swerve given the
horizontal portion is a tad askew
The Fedora "8" involves two perfect circles, whereas the DP "8" are
imperfect circle-like shapes.
Said another way, there are strong linear elements to the two bits of
the DP "8", while Fedora is completely circular.
On that note, clearly there are an infinity number of slopes/
rotations, but this 45 degree positioning is the most obvious
positioning of infinity (other than the pure horizontal).
I sent an email to the Fedora mailing lists and to a couple of redhat
employees I know. As a fedora dev this is BS. IANAL but AFAIK the
infinity symbol cannot be copyrighted as it would fall under prior
art. I'm trying to get clarification from the asshats over at redhat
legal.
-t
twitter: fusion94
On Feb 21, 4:54 pm, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the
> DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo.
> Here is a snippet from their email:
> ---QUOTE
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website,
> located athttp://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that
> is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat.
> Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and
> white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I
> wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your
> advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest
> (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor
> tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
Please note that as a community group who's goal is to give something
of value to the internet, we don't want this to turn mean or litigious
- the best possible outcome is something that both communities/
organizations can agree on.
To any Fedora people who might come over due to Fusion's post, and to
the DP community, please remember we can disagree without being
disagreeable.
Thank you all for your insightful comments so far. I am sure we can
work this out and get back to helping to raise awareness of
DataPortability technologies and initiatives.
Cheers,
Chris
On Feb 22, 11:35 am, "fusio...@gmail.com" <fusio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I sent an email to the Fedora mailing lists and to a couple of redhat
> employees I know. As a fedora dev this is BS. IANAL but AFAIK the
> infinity symbol cannot be copyrighted as it would fall under prior
> art. I'm trying to get clarification from the asshats over at redhat
> legal.
> -t
> twitter: fusion94
> On Feb 21, 4:54 pm, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good afternoon everyone,
> > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the
> > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo.
> > Here is a snippet from their email:
> > ---QUOTE
> > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website,
> > located athttp://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that
> > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat.
> > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and
> > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I
> > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your
> > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest
> > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor
> > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
If to keep it and fight the C&D, will generate PR which could turn out both good and bad;
Me a Fedora user for years, the DP logo did not recall me to the Fedora logo;
If decide to fight, need to and better do consult the trademark lawyers before responding;
But the larger issue being, since the logo, or rather, the badge with the logo, is meant to be carried on external sites other than the DataPortability.org itself to show their support for dp, complications arise from supporter sites whether they'd want to carry a badge of IP issues.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pendergast" <richard.penderg...@gmail.com> To: <dataportability-public@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:29 AM Subject: [DataPortability-Public] Re: DataPortability receives Cease and Desist from RedHat Inc
> There are two considerations here, not one. > 1. Could we get away with it? > 2. Do we want the bad PR associated with the fight?
> The PR element is a nasty one. Why show ourselves to be hardasses? We > are trying to portray ourselves as good for the community. This may be > a necessary evil...
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Lee Dryburgh <drybur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Unless you object - I am going to highlight this email to The >> Register, Giga Om and Tech Crunch?
>> Regards
>> Lee >> / Skype: leedyburgh >> \ Emerging Comms Conference >> / March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
>> On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Good afternoon everyone,
>> > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the >> > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. >> > Here is a snippet from their email:
>> > ---QUOTE
>> > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, >> > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that >> > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. >> > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and >> > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
>> > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I >> > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your >> > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
>> > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
>> > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest >> > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor >> > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
>> > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
> Please note that as a community group who's goal is to give something
> of value to the internet, we don't want this to turn mean or litigious
> - the best possible outcome is something that both communities/
> organizations can agree on.
> To any Fedora people who might come over due to Fusion's post, and to
> the DP community, please remember we can disagree without being
> disagreeable.
> Thank you all for your insightful comments so far. I am sure we can
> work this out and get back to helping to raise awareness of
> DataPortability technologies and initiatives.
> Cheers,
> Chris
> On Feb 22, 11:35 am, "fusio...@gmail.com" <fusio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I sent an email to the Fedora mailing lists and to a couple of redhat
> > employees I know. As a fedora dev this is BS. IANAL but AFAIK the
> > infinity symbol cannot be copyrighted as it would fall under prior
> > art. I'm trying to get clarification from the asshats over at redhat
> > legal.
> > -t
> > twitter: fusion94
> > On Feb 21, 4:54 pm, Chris Saad <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Good afternoon everyone,
> > > DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the
> > > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo.
> > > Here is a snippet from their email:
> > > ---QUOTE
> > > Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website,
> > > located athttp://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that
> > > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat.
> > > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and
> > > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> > > In the interests of transparency and community participation - I
> > > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your
> > > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> > > 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> > > 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest
> > > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor
> > > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> > > Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
I see this as both a curse and a blessing. Let's start with the curse part and the rebuttal to it first:
I'm assuming that Redhat has basically declared that they don't like the DataPortability workgroup, or they really wouldn't care. If anyone at Redhat would like to dispute this, please do it in a non-flaming fashion. Personally, I don't think it's nice to attack people who you should hold as friends.
Secondly, there are many noticeable differences even to the un-trained eye when a close look is taken: - The DataPortability Logo is generally encased in a briefcase, whereas the Fedora Infinity is in a teardrop. - The DataPortability Logo uses a less-circular pattern for the two sides, using what would be defined simply as square-ish shapes with large circular corners, whereas the Fedora Infinity Logo uses more perfect circle-ellipse shapes. - The DataPortability Logo fill pattern is the bottom portion (constructing the base of the future, if you will ;)) whereas the Fedora Infinity Logo uses a fill pattern to make an "f" shape. - The DataPortability Logo is generally displayed in Green, whereas the Fedora Infinity Logo is a Deep, lovely, Blue colour. - DataPortability is a workgroup dealing with Internet Standards, whereas the Fedora Project is a Free, Open-Source, Linux Operating System project.
This list of claims should be enough to satisfy the fact that there is no need to change the DataPortability Logo.
As for the Blessing? More attention for the DataPortability Workgroup! ^_^
[mailto:dataportability-public@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Saad Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:54 PM To: DataPortability.Public.General Subject: [DataPortability-Public] DataPortability receives Cease and Desist from RedHat Inc
Good afternoon everyone,
DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. Here is a snippet from their email:
---QUOTE
Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
In the interests of transparency and community participation - I wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
They have enough claim to make it bothersome it appears form looking
at the emblems. Whether we agree with them or not, they could make it
costly and bothersome. We faced this before in our company with a
barely similar name in the clothing versus out IT industry. It was
cheaper and easier to "comply" enough to not have a battle.
Red Hat is just defending it's trademarks. This is common practice -- if you don't protect it you can lose it. Ask anyone who makes blue jeans with a swoop on the back pocket.
I'm an active Fedora user and even maintain some packages -- I noticed the similarity when I first saw the dp logo weeks ago.
Get over it, tweak the logo, move on.
Now does anyone want to tackle my Foaf <--> opensocial question :)
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 08:13:28PM -0600, Navarr Barnier wrote:
> I see this as both a curse and a blessing. Let's start with the curse part > and the rebuttal to it first:
> I'm assuming that Redhat has basically declared that they don't like the > DataPortability workgroup, or they really wouldn't care. If anyone at > Redhat would like to dispute this, please do it in a non-flaming fashion. > Personally, I don't think it's nice to attack people who you should hold as > friends.
> Secondly, there are many noticeable differences even to the un-trained eye > when a close look is taken: > - The DataPortability Logo is generally encased in a briefcase, whereas the > Fedora Infinity is in a teardrop. > - The DataPortability Logo uses a less-circular pattern for the two sides, > using what would be defined simply as square-ish shapes with large circular > corners, whereas the Fedora Infinity Logo uses more perfect circle-ellipse > shapes. > - The DataPortability Logo fill pattern is the bottom portion (constructing > the base of the future, if you will ;)) whereas the Fedora Infinity Logo > uses a fill pattern to make an "f" shape. > - The DataPortability Logo is generally displayed in Green, whereas the > Fedora Infinity Logo is a Deep, lovely, Blue colour. > - DataPortability is a workgroup dealing with Internet Standards, whereas > the Fedora Project is a Free, Open-Source, Linux Operating System project.
> This list of claims should be enough to satisfy the fact that there is no > need to change the DataPortability Logo.
> As for the Blessing? More attention for the DataPortability Workgroup! ^_^
> From: dataportability-public@googlegroups.com > [mailto:dataportability-public@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Saad > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:54 PM > To: DataPortability.Public.General > Subject: [DataPortability-Public] DataPortability receives Cease and Desist > from RedHat Inc
> Good afternoon everyone,
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the > DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo. > Here is a snippet from their email:
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website, > located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that > is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat. > Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and > white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I > wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your > advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest > (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor > tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DataPortability.Public.General" group. > To post to this group, send email to dataportability-public@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to dataportability-public-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/dataportability-public?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I agree that it is remarkably similar, and I'm not sure we want people claiming that we copied Fedora, even though I KNOW that is not the case. I agree that the infinity symbol is pretty widely used though.
Not sure how I feel about this one, but to people unfamiliar with the case, I think they will assume that it was borrowed, as people in this community tend to be tech savvy and would be aware of the Fedora logo.
I guess my input is, yeah I think we could fight it but would it be worth the effort and would it help us in any way to piss off Fedora? I will say that I hope they came to us with a friendly convo before calling in the lawyers...
Robyn
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:15 PM, TheSocialNetworker <idono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> They have enough claim to make it bothersome it appears form looking > at the emblems. Whether we agree with them or not, they could make it > costly and bothersome. We faced this before in our company with a > barely similar name in the clothing versus out IT industry. It was > cheaper and easier to "comply" enough to not have a battle.
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