The '8' thing is similar but that is a common symbol and the data port
one filles it differently. Then it is set in a completely different
body surrounding it.
That '8' infinity part they speak of I see quite a lot on celtic designs.
I could understand if the data port group was issuing an OS, that
potentially there could be a question or two raised but this is
absurd.
Regards
Lee
/ Skype: leedyburgh
\ Emerging Comms Conference
/ March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
As to tweaks, I am at work, but will see if I can put something
together in MSPaint if you are just looking for suggestions :)
But I can't see how DP could claim that the d-logo is parody or
commentary, and I think they
are right, it could be confusing and the point of trademark is to
keep confusion away from the public.
I'd say you'll probably have to change it but maybe you could
negotiate with them, bring them into
the fold?
Sorry about that.
That is... I could make campbell's lawnmowers and not conflict with
campbell's soup, these are two unrelated items and confusion is
unlikely. Similarly I think there is very little risk of confusion
between dataportabilty and an operating system.
but maybe trademarks work differently for logo's (I don't think they do).
~ Anders
not to quote Wikipedia or anything but
"The extent to which a trademark owner may prevent unauthorized use of
trademarks which are the same as or similar to its trademark depends
on various factors such as whether its trademark is registered, the
similarity of the trademarks involved, the similarity of the products
and/or services involved, and whether the owner's trademark is well
known."
so it seems to me we have a few questions to answers
1) are the trademarks similar?
yes almost certainly
2) are the products and services similar?
Not really at all (they involve computers but that's about it)
3) is the trademark well known?
Well...none of us noticed it. The mark is probably well known to
fedora users!
~ Anders
But there is a quick fix - flip the infinity part by 90deg. So if you
wish to avoid more letters just do that.
Regards
Lee
/ Skype: leedyburgh
\ Emerging Comms Conference
/ March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
Regards
Lee
/ Skype: leedyburgh
\ Emerging Comms Conference
/ March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
That said, legitimate in this context reduces to what would occur (or
not) in a given courtroom on a given day.
If it went far enough to be litigated, a court might find them to be
conflicting or not. It's almost
impossible to predict. :-(
However, they are just similar enough, that I could see how *somebody*
(rightly or wrongly) could find them
to conflict. I think we would be better off just changing the DP logo
and not making a fuss over it.
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest
> (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor
> tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
>
Sorry, no artistic talent here. :-(
TTYL,
--
Phillip Rhodes
Chief Architect - OpenQabal
https://openqabal.dev.java.net
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/philliprhodes
Jacob Chapel
http://dataportability.org
http://practicalportability.org
The PR element is a nasty one. Why show ourselves to be hardasses? We
are trying to portray ourselves as good for the community. This may be
a necessary evil...
Pls also submit it to chillingeffects.org.
It's important to track these things and make them visible.
I would be polite, but simply state what has happened and say that
you are considering what the right thing to do is.
mary
But you're spinning it wrong :) We aren't being hardasses, we're the
helpless open standards fighters that are being pounced on by a cold
heartless corporation (not my real opinion).
I think the real answer is that we should talk to the folks at redhat,
find what they want, see how we can walk away amicably, and if they're
not cooperative we should decide what to do then.
~ Anders
Me a Fedora user for years, the DP logo did not recall me to the Fedora logo;
If decide to fight, need to and better do consult the trademark lawyers before responding;
But the larger issue being, since the logo, or rather, the badge with the logo, is meant to be
carried on external sites other than the DataPortability.org itself to show their support for dp,
complications arise from supporter sites whether they'd want to carry a badge of IP issues.
Aaron Cheung
YDrive Limited
I'm assuming that Redhat has basically declared that they don't like the
DataPortability workgroup, or they really wouldn't care. If anyone at
Redhat would like to dispute this, please do it in a non-flaming fashion.
Personally, I don't think it's nice to attack people who you should hold as
friends.
Secondly, there are many noticeable differences even to the un-trained eye
when a close look is taken:
- The DataPortability Logo is generally encased in a briefcase, whereas the
Fedora Infinity is in a teardrop.
- The DataPortability Logo uses a less-circular pattern for the two sides,
using what would be defined simply as square-ish shapes with large circular
corners, whereas the Fedora Infinity Logo uses more perfect circle-ellipse
shapes.
- The DataPortability Logo fill pattern is the bottom portion (constructing
the base of the future, if you will ;)) whereas the Fedora Infinity Logo
uses a fill pattern to make an "f" shape.
- The DataPortability Logo is generally displayed in Green, whereas the
Fedora Infinity Logo is a Deep, lovely, Blue colour.
- DataPortability is a workgroup dealing with Internet Standards, whereas
the Fedora Project is a Free, Open-Source, Linux Operating System project.
This list of claims should be enough to satisfy the fact that there is no
need to change the DataPortability Logo.
As for the Blessing? More attention for the DataPortability Workgroup! ^_^
-Navarr Barnier
m Nav...@gtaero.net
f http://www.gtaero.net/foaf.rdf
w http://www.gtaero.net/
b http://tech.gtaero.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: dataportabi...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:dataportabi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Saad
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:54 PM
To: DataPortability.Public.General
Subject: [DataPortability-Public] DataPortability receives Cease and Desist
from RedHat Inc
I'm an active Fedora user and even maintain some packages -- I noticed
the similarity when I first saw the dp logo weeks ago.
Get over it, tweak the logo, move on.
Now does anyone want to tackle my Foaf <--> opensocial question :)
-- Paul
> From: dataportabi...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:dataportabi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Saad
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:54 PM
> To: DataPortability.Public.General
> Subject: [DataPortability-Public] DataPortability receives Cease and Desist
> from RedHat Inc
>
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> DataPortability has sent us a Cease and Desist letter regarding the
> DataPortability logo and its alleged similarity to the Fedora logo.
> Here is a snippet from their email:
>
>
> Red Hat, Inc. ("Red Hat") recently became aware that on your website,
> located at http://www.dataportability.org, you are using art work that
> is identical to the Fedora Infinity design logo owned by Red Hat.
> Specifically, I am referring to two images on your site: the green and
> white logo, as well as the blue and white logo.
>
>
> The Fedora logo can be seen here:
> http://www.linuxactionshow.com/images/fedora.jpg
> The DataPortability logo can be seen here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sexyseo/2179140560/
>
> In the interests of transparency and community participation - I
> wanted to bring this to the community's attention and ask for your
> advice and input. To that end I have a few questions for you:
>
> 1. Do you think that this is a legitimate claim by RedHat?
>
> 2. If you believe that the logo is indeed in conflict, can you suggest
> (by actually creating an image rather than just describing it) a minor
> tweak/change to the logo that would make it more distinguishable
>
> Your comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
>
>
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DataPortability.Public.General" group.
> To post to this group, send email to dataportabi...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to dataportability-p...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/dataportability-public?hl=en
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>
--
Paul Lindner ||||| | | | | | | | | |
lin...@inuus.com
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/02/21/logo-war-red-hat-takes-on-dataportability/#comment-2002358
"...trademarks become invalid if the owner doesn't watch for similar
marks used by others, and send them cease and desists. So all
trademark owners who can afford lawyers will send out multiple cease
and desists *daily* - Red Hat does, and so does every other major tech
company, and every other major company *period*. It's not a big event
when it happens. There is someone whose job is to sit there all day
sending these things, at every large company in the world."
"...a cease and desist like this is not a "lawsuit" - it's an email.
The decision to send it would normally come from one person, it's not
some kind of major company initiative or strategic decision. The
person sending it almost certainly has no idea what DataPortability
is, their job is to just look at the two logos and send an email if
they might be confusingly similar."
put very simply if red hat do not defend their trademark they lose it,
and proving reactionary by shifting the discussion into the public
domain does not reflect well on dp. internal discussion like this
should not lead to external incitement, otherwise we will need to be
careful about what we post internally to the group.
while i do not necessarily agree with the practice, its a legal
requirement, and in red hats position id do exactly the same thing.
the reality is that given a chance to discuss the situation red hat
would most likely have come to the party.
ive now seen at least 2 major posts denouncing red hat, and am a bit
worried that this is no longer a discussion, but a slinging match.
while red hat are the big gun here and dp are most certainly the
underdog, the passionate reactionary posts appearing are certainly not
helping the situation.
chill out guys. were talking about a logo. a discussion and a few
tweaks will settle the dispute, but it will take a lot more to salvage
the reputation of dp if we become seen as a bunch of reactionary
cyberbullies.
chris did the right thing in asking the groups. do we now show him
that was a mistake, and that the big decisions should be handled
offline behind closed doors?
Just to double check before you commit to the below - are you sure you
do not want the likes of TechCrunch holding a logo competition? If it
was me I would do that as it drives great publicity to the group and
will get you talented artwork free of charge.
Regards
Lee
/ Skype: leedyburgh
\ Emerging Comms Conference
/ March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
On 22/02/2008, Chris Saad <chris...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes to all that. But I like the one Bottom Right.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Help Stamp Out Lite
Paul Fraser
If I were to choose from the ones Chris linked, bottom left even
though its not by popular demand.
Jacob Chapel
http://dataportability.org
http://practicalportability.org
As said I'd go for the publicity of a competition which will get the
groups objectives known to a wider audience and should yield a logo
that can work across varying formats and sizes.
I know people would rather concentrate on data port problems but I'd
say don't waste free opportunities. You never know where the group may
wish to be in the future and as they say - branding is everything.
Regards
Lee
/ Skype: leedyburgh
\ Emerging Comms Conference
/ March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
----- Original Message -----From: Chris Saad
I'm from Spain and have been working in virtual communities and learning
communities. I've joined the group because I'm now planning a community
site and was aware of the problem of user registrations and wondered if
there was something like your project... and it is :)
I've just joined the group and the first mails I receive are those about
the logo. Great designs thought I should draw your attention to Fedora's
logo (Fedora is a Linux distribution). It's the infinity symbol, quite
similiar to the one already suggested in some of your drawings (see
http://fedoraproject.org/ ). Fedora's logo color is blue.
I have much work to do before posting (tons of material to read and an
API to study), but glad to have found you.
Cheers,
Victoria
Regards
Lee
/ Skype: leedyburgh
\ Emerging Comms Conference
/ March 12-14 - www.eCommMedia.com
On 23/02/2008, Elias Bizannes <elias.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We've decided to move on. Please refer to Chris's blog about news for
> the new logo competition.
> http://chrissaad.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/dataportability-logo-competition/
>
> >
>
> Ok guys
>
> So I think the consensus/summary from all the blog comments and posts
> here on the thread are:
>
> 1. The logos have at least one similar element
> 2. The alleged TM infringement is questionable and could be argued
> 3. DataPortability should not waste time, effort or mind share on the
> battle
> 4. We do not want IP concerns around the badge since we hope that
> others will use it
> 5. We should tweak/adjust the logo to avoid a confrontation with Red Hat
> 6. Let's get the logo changed enough to allay their fears.
>
> I propose we go back a step to the top logo seen here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/syphonbandrew/2077819290/in/pool-592496@N21
I would suggest to make a slight adjustment to the top logo by removing
the space between the d and p ("dp" instead of "d p").
Cheers
Michael
>
> However we use the rounded font that makes up the infinitity symbol.
>
> So D P written next to each other using the very rounded font.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Chris
>
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 7:36 PM, François Dongier
> <francois...@gmail.com <mailto:francois...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> When I first saw today the Fedora logo
> (http://www.linuxactionshow.com/images/fedora.jpg), I thought that
> it does indeed look pretty similar to the DP logo.
> Also, the homepage of the Fedora project states that "The Fedora
> Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of free,
> open software and content." This, in my view, is not /totally
> /unrelated to the DP project. So there may be room for confusion
> and I believe we do have to find, with Fedora, a solution to this
> (relatively small) problem.
>
> Just some remarks comparing the two logos:
> 1) The small Fedora Logo appearing on top of the Fedora project
> homepage (http://fedoraproject.org/en/index) looks like a letter
> "f" inside a blue circle. This one doesn't really seem (to me) to
> conflict with the DP Logo.
> 2) An animated gif version of the Fedora Logo
> (http://fedoraproject.org/en/static/images/banners/f8-banner-animation.gif)
> appears just below the first one. At some point of the animation,
> it does include a larger pic that does look similar to the DP logo.
> 3) This animated Fedora Logo evokes an infinity sign, while the DP
> Logo doesn't. I always saw the DP logo as an imbrication of
> letters D and P. If we had wanted to have it evoke infinity, we
> would have made the "tilted 8" rounder.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Richard Pendergast
> <richard.p...@gmail.com
> <whiting...@gmail.com <mailto:whiting...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I have been through a few trademark wars. The DP community
> is already
> > showing the worst of the negative effects of these types of
> conflicts:
> > consumption of bandwidth that should be used in other
> (productive)
> > ways. In terms of what might happen in a real legal fight,
> this entire
> > email thread would be used against us, as many DP-ers admit
> seeing a
> > similarity between the marks.
> > Time to mod the logo and move on.
> > Gordon Whiting
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Saad
> FaradayMedia.com - For Audiences of One
> Particls.com <http://Particls.com> - Are You Paying Attention?
> Engagd.com <http://Engagd.com> - The Open Attention Platform
> Media2.0Workgroup.org <http://Media2.0Workgroup.org> - Social,
> Democratic, Distributed
> APML.org - The OPML of Attention
> DataPortability.org - The next frontier; Data
> >
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Yanel, Yulup
http://www.wyona.com
michael...@wyona.com, mi...@apache.org
+41 44 272 91 61
http://dataportability.techcrunch.com/
I am glad all benefited as expected - DP, TC and their partners. I am
not catching up on mailing list back logs, but well done. Regards, Lee
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lee Dryburgh <dryb...@gmail.com>
Date: 22 Feb 2008 14:11
Subject: Re: [DataPortability-Public] Re: DataPortability receives
Cease and Desist from RedHat Inc
-Brady