TECH-DBUG Digest Monday II, May 7 V2012 #065
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Evan Shu
May 7, 2012, 9:45:20 PM5/7/12
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Date: May 7, 2012 4:24:01 PM PDT
Subject: TECH-DBUG Digest Monday II, May 7 V2012 #065
datacad-dbug-digest Monday II, May 7 2012 Volume 2012 :
Number 065
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In this issue:
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Creating Videos
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Creating Videos
DBUG> NY handicap accessibility
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Re: videos of how to do roofs
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> FWd 3D - 3dtools - Kaboom
DBUG> Fwd 3D - 3D Tangent
DBUG> handicap
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Creating Videos - Off topic
DBUG> handicap
DBUG> Creating Videos
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Fwd 3D - 3D Arch Windows
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Creating Videos
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Scott <scottreside...@gmail.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:09:20 AM PDT
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
JH wrote:
Again, as a fellow who's done professional Peer Review for decades, I
can't tell you how many times I've seen such dimensions pulled from
face-of-stud rather than face-of-finish.
///////
Hmmm...face of stud dimensions makes sense to me...get the studs
located in the correct location and it's pretty hard to mess up the
location of the finishes. The architect certainly needs to consider
finishes and account for inconsistent thickness of some finishes (tile
for example or mudded corners of drywall) but to the guy banging out
the studs this should be of no concern.
IMO,
Robert Scott
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:21:23 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
I had them all but the sun shader at one time. The last I heard, he or
someone that had macros on his site was doing a truss macro. The beta
I saw of that was unreal. I reckon he was a real honest to goodness
PASCAL programmer that wrote those in half a day or something. A
little bit of him is still in DataCAD’s TIN modeler. I wish I knew
what he was up to these days. Around 2000, I think his programs really
made DataCAD shine for me.
I really wish more development work was taking place. DataCAD has some
real cool tools for that now. Maybe writing some king of DataCAD
viewer app would be worth something, but how many people would buy it.
I believe the DCAL macros that Dave wrote were copy protected with a
number in order of the sale and we bought dhText No. 122. So he could
not have had too many sales. That is the video I would like to see,
development.
Until that Oracle vs. Google lawsuit gets sorted out over API’s here
in the US, it leaves things very uncertain. The EU threw it out last I
heard so maybe we will do the same but you never know. For those that
haven’t kept up with this, it could mean you could use someone else’s
programming software and have to give them your copyright. Very dicey
in the US. Of course this is a worst case scenario.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
DR… Personally I would like to buy some more macros from Dave
Henderson. Those DH macros are great...
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Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 09:26:43 -0500
From: "Paul Nida" <prn...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
True, they build it from the stud dimensions. You just have to make
sure these dimensions take into account the finish thickness as well
as the ADA dimensions. Even then there is no guarantee that it will be
built right.
/////It was NOT their error by approving it, it was yours for
designing it. The city has no liability and if somebody sues over it,
your but will be on the line not the cities. The fact that the city
accepted it doesn't make you less liable///
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Horecka <jhor...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
Right.
Face of stud is fine. However, all must be properly accounted for. And
it must also be crystal clear that actual offsets and such (especially
wainscot to CL water closet) are to be pulled off the finished
surface.
All too often, I see Con Docs that show 18" from face of stud to CL
water closet. Poof! You're toast.
This is all too common. General note on set of plans that all
dimensions are face of stud. You get a door into a maze of a multiple-
accomadation toilet room. Needs 60" clear landing. The kid playing CAD
jockey that morning dimensions 60" FoS to FoS, maze fin wall to hall
wall. Poof! Toast again. You're now a good 3" short.
Another common issue is that plans are laid down at too small a scale
for this intricate work. I see accessible RRs done at 1/8" = 1'.
Silly. Even 1/4" is usually inadequate. Don't be shy! Where it counts
(and it does) do BIG plans.
James Horecka, AIA
Architec
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:35:25 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
Probably not, since ours has half dovetail notches at every corner no
matter what system we use. ArchiCAD with Log Home Solutions has this
coding. One company that was very large before the crash had that done
but they didn’t get all of the rights to it, so it is now being sold.
We are getting more business now, not because the economy is any
better. It’s just because we are about the last ones around except in
Canada and the Western US. Many of those companies located in
Tennessee went bankrupt. We have kept our overhead as low as possible
just hang in there and it appears to be slowly paying off.
I could also and have done it in DataCAD’s 3D, just by making one and
stacking them up. I don’t need to go that fast yet, but if I go to the
trouble of writing a program to do this automatically, I would only
have probably one customer. I might could spend even less effort
writing an Android App that might have the chance of paying me more.
The only problem with that is everyone else has pretty much thought of
every single program I would want. I think Dave might have given
because he wasn’t making anything for his effort but if he is still
alive, why not put what he has already done up on Cheap Tricks or
somewhere to let some of us use his programs that never have before?
They are still useful.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
////////
True David, all the applications mentioned have different levels of
BIM implementation. Each have IFC so can build and interchange useful
data but the depth of their IFC development does vary.
I agree BIM is just a marketeers self-indulgence. It attempts to take
ownership of where all CAD has the potential to, had to or has to go
anyway. It involves inputting data once for re-use in any number of
ways as may be useful or necessary and it involves the carriage of a
depth of information which relates to known components or types of
elements not just what can be depicted by putting together dumb
graphic elements such as lines.
You mentioned that none can handle logs due to their corners. I think
in Spirit you would handle those building individually using drawing
styles. If you have set lengths that can easily be incorporated
otherwise you would stack then stretch overall to suit. Without
knowing exactly how your things work I am certain it would be easy.
Likely other sophisticated applications could do this also with coding
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:40:34 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
Yes, the one I didn’t get was his sun shader. We didn’t need it then
but I liked the fact that it gave areas. I’m only on DataCAD 13 so I
don’t know if 14 does this or not but seeing what it does vs. having
the areas, I would like to see an area calculation as well. I just
wonder if he is still alive. He didn’t sound that old in 2000 when we
talked on the telephone.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
J
J If we keep this up we may create a lucretive second hand market in
legendary macro.
Jh
Yep, DH Text was wonderful. Truly.
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From: "Brian T. Lanier" <brianl...@earthlink.net>
Date: May 7, 2012 7:41:54 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> NY handicap accessibility
Reply-To: <brianl...@earthlink.net>
The word handicap does not appear anywhere in the 2010 ADA Standards
for accessible design. Instead it refers to creating facilities to
be "readily accessible to and usable by individuals with
disabilities". If you haven't given it a look, you should,its a
decent read. They finally figured out that some of the stupid things
they were requiring didn't work.
Brian
Brian T. Lanier
Homer Lewis & Associates, Inc.
1035 Green Street SE, Suite-E
Conyers, GA 30012
Phone: (678)210-7007
Fax: (678)210-9118
E-Mail: brianl...@earthlink.net
////////
and a similar search on the IBC or your local code probably will only
find "accessible" or variation of. I've always had an issue will
labeling a normal and good functioning water closet or parking space
as disabled or handicapped, it's just not true.
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:07:23 -0700
From: "John Thomson" <JDT...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
Simple answer---the guy laying out the walls if doing it to face of
stud regardless of what is on the architectural plans. He will
calculate it if it isn't there. I actually show the stud lines in my
walls and dimension to them. I also put minimum distances on toilet
room plans, at the strike side of doors and anyplace else there is a
critical accessibility dimension. California has been like this for
years so it is just second nature to over dimension everything that
has to do with accessibility.
John
John Douglas Thomson, AIA
2535 W. 237th Street
Suite 120
Torrance, CA 90505
310 539 1326
jdt...@sbcglobal.net
- -----
Hmmm...face of stud dimensions makes sense to me...get the studs
located in the correct location and it's pretty hard to mess up the
location of the finishes. The architect certainly needs to consider
finishes and account for inconsistent thickness of some finishes (tile
for example or mudded corners of drywall) but to the guy banging out
the studs this should be of no concern
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Date: May 7, 2012 9:13:44 AM PDT
From: Albert Jackman <abjde...@gmail.com>
Subject: DBUG> Re: videos of how to do roofs
I have saved the video's of the how to do roofs - etc.
Wonderful job!!!! This is what is really needed. Dcad should give this
attention and not all the shader stuff.
Using CAD for production drawings (2D) is truly where it is at and
necessary. The introduction of 3D is the next logical step. Dcad has
done a masterful job of interfacing with SU.
I am now going to learn 3-D using nothing but Dcad.
Skipp
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: SDES...@aol.com
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
Another good thread - "As built" Dimensions.
I don't know about you guys but I've had some ongoing love/hate
relationships with "inspectors" in different parts of the country. I
won't bore you with them all but, on one occasion I got a call from
one of my Supers' saying we got Red-tagged on Hotel 2nd Floor Womens
Restrooms for "WC Widths"................I went nuts as I was in MA ,
the job was in NM and I needed that CO , yesterday !!!
Turns out my Shop Foreman took it upon himself to switch out 4/4
material for 8/4 material for the Veneered Toilet Partitions without
letting anyone know about it. So, we were indeed 2" off when the
Center-to-Center Mounting Brackets were installed and the panels
fitted for the NON-Accessible Stalls!!
Fortunately, because the shop was mine, we re built, patche the stone
and re-set the partitions the following day. But the FEDEX overnight
Freight $$$ was enough to have one heck of a focused job meeting
afterwards to review the forensics.
"Measure THRICE.............
___________________________________________________
David K. Sargert, LEED AP
Design-Development Director
SAFFRON Group International
Houston, TX
505-573-9518 - Cell
_SaffronGroupInternational.com_
(http://www.saffrongroupinternational.blogspot.com/)
In a message dated 5/7/2012 11:10:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Again, as a fellow who's done professional Peer Review for decades, I
can't tell you how many times I've seen such dimensions pulled from
face-of-stud rather than face-of-finish.
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 9:09:01 AM PDT
Subject: re: 3D - 3dtools - Kaboom
I do a little of both. After F4, I use the menu button on the left
which also works on one click. Of course I use the keyboard commands
too but Shift F5, no way. I would stay away from Kaboom as I remember
crashing an entire drawing that way a few years back. Angry Birds or
maybe a bullet to bite on is better for stress, but you know it gives
some kind of an idea. 3D rotate is always the one that I forget how to
use and have to re-learn. It also seems like there was another roof
macro that didn’t come on the Cheap Tricks CD’s.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 10:16:48 AM PDT
Subject: re- 3D - 3D Tangent
- --This movie shows the ability to use a tangent cursor in 3D. If
there wasn't the ability for this then when I stretch the fascia in
the movie I would have had to work out the angle for the stretch and
this is not always easy to do if you do not know or remember what the
original angle was.--
I imagine there are a lot of people that don’t know this. It should be
in the 3D menus as well as a wish. There are a few 2D commands that
work like that. Cool Video Thanks!
I wonder if it works with 3d rotate?
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 10:32:32 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> handicap
- --(For those that don't know what a millimeter is, that is a whiff,
a mouse's whisker, a fleas dick. Is it hard to understand why some
building surveyors with common sense may overlook a few millimetres
here or there? And that is not in anyway to excuse the laughable
street corner)--
I know what it is. It’s pretty close to the thickness of an US dime.
Units don’t matter to me much as other countries that use the metric
system may use centimeters or even meters. I like the millimeter way
because it leaves out all of that fractional stuff. The US has the
metric system. We just never got rid of the English system either. 12
ounces just sounds better than 355ml but it both on a can of Coke and
pretty much everything else. Take your pick. In the US we just didn’t
want to change over every factory that makes a 4’ x 8’ sheet of
plywood for instance. I’m quite sure a pint is a pint across the
English speaking world. The largest spelling difference is “ers” or
“res” at the end. Whether it’s base 12 numbers or base 10 (the metric
system) make no difference, all can be represented by 0 and 1.
Although I have heard of trianary computers that have a 3rd number, my
math is not good enough to understand why this would be better.
- --Construction defects in the accessible path were the most frequent
problem--
I am not an expert but I would agree with that. We have a ramp going
up to our courthouse that is pretty lengthy without any landings and
also looks steep and spills out right into traffic. No lawsuits YET.
It is even not safe to a healthy person. I wonder how many other small
town court houses are like this? I can imagine Ironside rolling out
into traffic and it being his last case.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 9:54:21 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HC restroom sizes
- --It was NOT their error by approving it, it was yours for designing
it.
The city has no liability and if somebody sues over it, your but will
be on the line not the cities. The fact that the city accepted it
doesn't make you less liable.--
The liability will fall on the person that drew it and/or stamped it.
I’ve seen plans with 5 stamps on them with 30 pages for a 1200 sq.ft.
but when it’s for the State of Virginia, what are you going to do?
They sometimes break federal law too. I’ve been drawing everything
nominal size anyhow because here you can’t too many builders that will
take the time to read fractions. So I just add inches to everything
that way someone doesn’t get me for a ½” piece of gypsum board. I
don’t get to decide the finishing thickness. This is why a 3’ stair
might be labeled 3’-2”.
Builders are the worst for this. If you start putting 1/16” on a
drawing they will cuss and it’s hard telling what you will. I just go
larger in places where you will run into trouble and try to get rid of
the fractions or it will be screwed up anyhow.
- --Hmmm...face of stud dimensions makes sense to me...get the studs
located in the correct location and it's pretty hard to mess up the
location of the finishes. The architect certainly needs to consider
finishes and account for inconsistent thickness of some finishes (tile
for example or mudded corners of drywall) but to the guy banging out
the studs this should be of no concern.--
I would like to add the face of the stud that matters, like the inside
of a stairwell. If it’s a 12’ bedroom then what’s a half an inch? Like
JH said, I’ve seen stuff built way off and more of it with people that
do commercial work than residential for some weird reason that I have
yet to determine no matter what the plan says.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 8:11:07 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos - Off topic
Before there were classes on home computers.
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/27/retro_week_basic_instinct/
Off topic link of interest.
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From: "JAID" <i...@jaid.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 12:44:13 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> handicap
… We have a ramp going up to our courthouse that is pretty lengthy
without any landings and also looks steep and spills out right into
traffic…
A courthouse is a pretty public place where a bit of extra effort is
probably desirable but it could get pretty destructive and costly if
people started to think everything done in every time and place should
be brought up to current standards. To a degree it must make sense to
make do with what you have.
For me the most irrational thing is the claim that it is somehow
demeaning to have to traverse something in a way which may show up
whatever you have which may not match the usual. We all have to make a
bit of extra effort in some areas. Were my maths weak and I had to
pull out my fingers to count on or if I stuttered both may seem
unfortunate but in not necessarily reflecting the advantages I may
have any embarrassment over them would be just counter-productive. If
my bladder was weak should I demand a ‘rest room’ every 20 metres or
wear a bag? If I cannot climb the stairs which add drama to a great
museum or monument what is wrong with using the back door? We don’t
have to spoil things for everyone, doing as well as we can reasonably
would be the better measure.
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From: "JAID" <i...@jaid.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 12:57:13 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
Anyone can have an accident but failing that David would be alive and
kicking. He reckoned he produced these macros on the long train
journey from mountains to city every day. Something to do. He was
working as a software engineer at the time and likely still would be.
Residential location or work conditions must have changed so the task
didn’t fit any more. He said something around the time of giving up
but I forget what that was. Be interesting to know who he was
connected with that made him interested in these and aware of the room
to move/potential and need. I am sure Nick Pyner who has not said a
word on this would know.
DR: Yes, the one I didn’t get was his sun shader. We didn’t need it
then but I liked the fact that it gave areas. I’m only on DataCAD 13
so I don’t know if 14 does this or not but seeing what it does vs.
having the areas, I would like to see an area calculation as well. I
just wonder if he is still alive. He didn’t sound that old in 2000
when we talked on the telephone.
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From: "JAID" <i...@jaid.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:00:39 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
Exactly as I suspected the form may be David. No problem dealing with
it in the way I described.
DR: Probably not, since ours has half dovetail notches at every corner
no matter what system we use….
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:23:20 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
Yes, the way you described. In DataCAD with smart walls I could just
let it not cut the corners and those in, point being it takes longer
that way. I would like to have smarts that I can define like going
back to what SU Pro can do but SU Pro is not so great at annotation
but can do it as is. From what I read Trimble has bought a ton of
software companies. I have no idea how to deal with Spirit as their
English site is not as good as their German one, no dealers in the US,
etc.
What you can do with DataCAD in 3D is quite a bit but just hasn’t
changed much and, correct me if I’m wrong, the interoperability
between the two programs (Spirit & DataCAD) only goes back so far. I
think Spirit will read *.dc5 files but not any *.aec files. I think SU
will become more powerful under Trimble but also more complicated.
I’ve seen some of these larger firms using kids with Revit to do the
work and then barely look over it before stamps are applied. The plans
look pretty, but they have more mistakes than when we had drafting
machines.
It would be nice to have solids and dynamic components in DataCAD.
Then nothing could beat it in any way. The SU DataCAD combination
worked pretty good but I fear Trimble is going to price it out of
reach for the little guy and may not be as open as Google was with
their interoperability in future versions. We really need an open CAD
format that CAD programs can use so that we can use the best tool for
the job as I don’t see one doing that yet if ever. Plain Jane Udder
CAD could do it all like draw gears and machine parts and do surveying
pretty quick and you could draw houses with it but is much slower at
that than DataCAD as you wouldn’t want to draw machine parts with
DataCAD.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
////////
Exactly as I suspected the form may be David. No problem dealing with
it in the way I described.
DR: Probably not, since ours has half dovetail notches at every corner
no matter what system we use….
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From: Matthew Cockroft <ma...@procadsys.co.nz>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:57:46 PM PDT
To: dataca...@googlegroups.com
Subject: 3D - 3D Arch Windows
This movie shows the creation of a 3D arch window and placing it into
a converted 2D wall.
Watch
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.screencast.com/t/Zc7oQbx50&usg=AFQjCNEunz7_MGl4OdvABFKNhYBPeZNeFQ
Kind regards,
Matthew Cockroft
Website: www.procadsys.co.nz
Email: ma...@procadsys.co.nz
Skype: matt_pcs
Ph : +64 7 848 2005
Mob: +64 27 484 7226
P O Box 15663
Dinsdale
Hamilton 3243
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From: Robert Scott <scottreside...@gmail.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:48:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: DBUG> Trimble & SU
I don't think you should be afraid of being priced out by Trimble.
The strength of SU is the involvement of the user base which is quite
diverse and quite "cheap" and if the price point moves too high there
are better options for all around modeling software available in the
$750 range and up that will take over the Trimble/SU market
share..."Modo" for example but their are others.
Robert Scott
<DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com> wrote:
Yes, the way you described. In DataCAD with smart walls I could just
let it not cut the corners and those in, point being it takes longer
that way. I would like to have smarts that I can define like going
back to what SU Pro can do but SU Pro is not so great at annotation
but can do it as is. From what I read Trimble has bought a ton of
software companies. I have no idea how to deal with Spirit as their
English site is not as good as their German one, no dealers in the US,
etc.
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:55:10 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
It’s not just modeling. I would like to build my own smart components,
which SU calls Dynamic Components instead of being stuck with what I
get.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
////////
I don't think you should be afraid of being priced out by Trimble.
The strength of SU is the involvement of the user base which is quite
diverse and quite "cheap" and if the price point moves too high there
are better options for all around modeling software available in the
$750 range and up that will take over the Trimble/SU market
share..."Modo" for example but their are others.
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From: Dean Buckeridge <de...@dbarc.co.nz>
Date: May 7, 2012 2:54:05 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
Could this be the Dave Henderson in question? http://
dnadave.users.sourceforge.net/
Dean Buckeridge
NZCD(Arch) LBP Design
1 Stonehaven Terrace
Hillsborough
Christchurch 8022
p: +64 (0)3 337 1713
m: +64 (0)27 227 7637
e: de...@dbarc.co.nz
w: www.dbarc.co.nz
------------------------------
End of datacad-dbug-digest V2012 #65
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Date: May 7, 2012 4:24:01 PM PDT
Subject: TECH-DBUG Digest Monday II, May 7 V2012 #065
datacad-dbug-digest Monday II, May 7 2012 Volume 2012 :
Number 065
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In this issue:
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Creating Videos
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Creating Videos
DBUG> NY handicap accessibility
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Re: videos of how to do roofs
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> FWd 3D - 3dtools - Kaboom
DBUG> Fwd 3D - 3D Tangent
DBUG> handicap
DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
DBUG> Creating Videos - Off topic
DBUG> handicap
DBUG> Creating Videos
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Fwd 3D - 3D Arch Windows
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Trimble & SU
DBUG> Creating Videos
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Scott <scottreside...@gmail.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:09:20 AM PDT
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
JH wrote:
Again, as a fellow who's done professional Peer Review for decades, I
can't tell you how many times I've seen such dimensions pulled from
face-of-stud rather than face-of-finish.
///////
Hmmm...face of stud dimensions makes sense to me...get the studs
located in the correct location and it's pretty hard to mess up the
location of the finishes. The architect certainly needs to consider
finishes and account for inconsistent thickness of some finishes (tile
for example or mudded corners of drywall) but to the guy banging out
the studs this should be of no concern.
IMO,
Robert Scott
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:21:23 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
I had them all but the sun shader at one time. The last I heard, he or
someone that had macros on his site was doing a truss macro. The beta
I saw of that was unreal. I reckon he was a real honest to goodness
PASCAL programmer that wrote those in half a day or something. A
little bit of him is still in DataCAD’s TIN modeler. I wish I knew
what he was up to these days. Around 2000, I think his programs really
made DataCAD shine for me.
I really wish more development work was taking place. DataCAD has some
real cool tools for that now. Maybe writing some king of DataCAD
viewer app would be worth something, but how many people would buy it.
I believe the DCAL macros that Dave wrote were copy protected with a
number in order of the sale and we bought dhText No. 122. So he could
not have had too many sales. That is the video I would like to see,
development.
Until that Oracle vs. Google lawsuit gets sorted out over API’s here
in the US, it leaves things very uncertain. The EU threw it out last I
heard so maybe we will do the same but you never know. For those that
haven’t kept up with this, it could mean you could use someone else’s
programming software and have to give them your copyright. Very dicey
in the US. Of course this is a worst case scenario.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
DR… Personally I would like to buy some more macros from Dave
Henderson. Those DH macros are great...
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Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 09:26:43 -0500
From: "Paul Nida" <prn...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
True, they build it from the stud dimensions. You just have to make
sure these dimensions take into account the finish thickness as well
as the ADA dimensions. Even then there is no guarantee that it will be
built right.
/////It was NOT their error by approving it, it was yours for
designing it. The city has no liability and if somebody sues over it,
your but will be on the line not the cities. The fact that the city
accepted it doesn't make you less liable///
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Horecka <jhor...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
Right.
Face of stud is fine. However, all must be properly accounted for. And
it must also be crystal clear that actual offsets and such (especially
wainscot to CL water closet) are to be pulled off the finished
surface.
All too often, I see Con Docs that show 18" from face of stud to CL
water closet. Poof! You're toast.
This is all too common. General note on set of plans that all
dimensions are face of stud. You get a door into a maze of a multiple-
accomadation toilet room. Needs 60" clear landing. The kid playing CAD
jockey that morning dimensions 60" FoS to FoS, maze fin wall to hall
wall. Poof! Toast again. You're now a good 3" short.
Another common issue is that plans are laid down at too small a scale
for this intricate work. I see accessible RRs done at 1/8" = 1'.
Silly. Even 1/4" is usually inadequate. Don't be shy! Where it counts
(and it does) do BIG plans.
James Horecka, AIA
Architec
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:35:25 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
Probably not, since ours has half dovetail notches at every corner no
matter what system we use. ArchiCAD with Log Home Solutions has this
coding. One company that was very large before the crash had that done
but they didn’t get all of the rights to it, so it is now being sold.
We are getting more business now, not because the economy is any
better. It’s just because we are about the last ones around except in
Canada and the Western US. Many of those companies located in
Tennessee went bankrupt. We have kept our overhead as low as possible
just hang in there and it appears to be slowly paying off.
I could also and have done it in DataCAD’s 3D, just by making one and
stacking them up. I don’t need to go that fast yet, but if I go to the
trouble of writing a program to do this automatically, I would only
have probably one customer. I might could spend even less effort
writing an Android App that might have the chance of paying me more.
The only problem with that is everyone else has pretty much thought of
every single program I would want. I think Dave might have given
because he wasn’t making anything for his effort but if he is still
alive, why not put what he has already done up on Cheap Tricks or
somewhere to let some of us use his programs that never have before?
They are still useful.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
////////
True David, all the applications mentioned have different levels of
BIM implementation. Each have IFC so can build and interchange useful
data but the depth of their IFC development does vary.
I agree BIM is just a marketeers self-indulgence. It attempts to take
ownership of where all CAD has the potential to, had to or has to go
anyway. It involves inputting data once for re-use in any number of
ways as may be useful or necessary and it involves the carriage of a
depth of information which relates to known components or types of
elements not just what can be depicted by putting together dumb
graphic elements such as lines.
You mentioned that none can handle logs due to their corners. I think
in Spirit you would handle those building individually using drawing
styles. If you have set lengths that can easily be incorporated
otherwise you would stack then stretch overall to suit. Without
knowing exactly how your things work I am certain it would be easy.
Likely other sophisticated applications could do this also with coding
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 6:40:34 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
Yes, the one I didn’t get was his sun shader. We didn’t need it then
but I liked the fact that it gave areas. I’m only on DataCAD 13 so I
don’t know if 14 does this or not but seeing what it does vs. having
the areas, I would like to see an area calculation as well. I just
wonder if he is still alive. He didn’t sound that old in 2000 when we
talked on the telephone.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
J
J If we keep this up we may create a lucretive second hand market in
legendary macro.
Jh
Yep, DH Text was wonderful. Truly.
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From: "Brian T. Lanier" <brianl...@earthlink.net>
Date: May 7, 2012 7:41:54 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> NY handicap accessibility
Reply-To: <brianl...@earthlink.net>
The word handicap does not appear anywhere in the 2010 ADA Standards
for accessible design. Instead it refers to creating facilities to
be "readily accessible to and usable by individuals with
disabilities". If you haven't given it a look, you should,its a
decent read. They finally figured out that some of the stupid things
they were requiring didn't work.
Brian
Brian T. Lanier
Homer Lewis & Associates, Inc.
1035 Green Street SE, Suite-E
Conyers, GA 30012
Phone: (678)210-7007
Fax: (678)210-9118
E-Mail: brianl...@earthlink.net
////////
and a similar search on the IBC or your local code probably will only
find "accessible" or variation of. I've always had an issue will
labeling a normal and good functioning water closet or parking space
as disabled or handicapped, it's just not true.
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:07:23 -0700
From: "John Thomson" <JDT...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
Simple answer---the guy laying out the walls if doing it to face of
stud regardless of what is on the architectural plans. He will
calculate it if it isn't there. I actually show the stud lines in my
walls and dimension to them. I also put minimum distances on toilet
room plans, at the strike side of doors and anyplace else there is a
critical accessibility dimension. California has been like this for
years so it is just second nature to over dimension everything that
has to do with accessibility.
John
John Douglas Thomson, AIA
2535 W. 237th Street
Suite 120
Torrance, CA 90505
310 539 1326
jdt...@sbcglobal.net
- -----
Hmmm...face of stud dimensions makes sense to me...get the studs
located in the correct location and it's pretty hard to mess up the
location of the finishes. The architect certainly needs to consider
finishes and account for inconsistent thickness of some finishes (tile
for example or mudded corners of drywall) but to the guy banging out
the studs this should be of no concern
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Date: May 7, 2012 9:13:44 AM PDT
From: Albert Jackman <abjde...@gmail.com>
Subject: DBUG> Re: videos of how to do roofs
I have saved the video's of the how to do roofs - etc.
Wonderful job!!!! This is what is really needed. Dcad should give this
attention and not all the shader stuff.
Using CAD for production drawings (2D) is truly where it is at and
necessary. The introduction of 3D is the next logical step. Dcad has
done a masterful job of interfacing with SU.
I am now going to learn 3-D using nothing but Dcad.
Skipp
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: SDES...@aol.com
Subject: Re: DBUG> Re: HC restroom sizes
Another good thread - "As built" Dimensions.
I don't know about you guys but I've had some ongoing love/hate
relationships with "inspectors" in different parts of the country. I
won't bore you with them all but, on one occasion I got a call from
one of my Supers' saying we got Red-tagged on Hotel 2nd Floor Womens
Restrooms for "WC Widths"................I went nuts as I was in MA ,
the job was in NM and I needed that CO , yesterday !!!
Turns out my Shop Foreman took it upon himself to switch out 4/4
material for 8/4 material for the Veneered Toilet Partitions without
letting anyone know about it. So, we were indeed 2" off when the
Center-to-Center Mounting Brackets were installed and the panels
fitted for the NON-Accessible Stalls!!
Fortunately, because the shop was mine, we re built, patche the stone
and re-set the partitions the following day. But the FEDEX overnight
Freight $$$ was enough to have one heck of a focused job meeting
afterwards to review the forensics.
"Measure THRICE.............
___________________________________________________
David K. Sargert, LEED AP
Design-Development Director
SAFFRON Group International
Houston, TX
505-573-9518 - Cell
_SaffronGroupInternational.com_
(http://www.saffrongroupinternational.blogspot.com/)
In a message dated 5/7/2012 11:10:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Again, as a fellow who's done professional Peer Review for decades, I
can't tell you how many times I've seen such dimensions pulled from
face-of-stud rather than face-of-finish.
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 9:09:01 AM PDT
Subject: re: 3D - 3dtools - Kaboom
I do a little of both. After F4, I use the menu button on the left
which also works on one click. Of course I use the keyboard commands
too but Shift F5, no way. I would stay away from Kaboom as I remember
crashing an entire drawing that way a few years back. Angry Birds or
maybe a bullet to bite on is better for stress, but you know it gives
some kind of an idea. 3D rotate is always the one that I forget how to
use and have to re-learn. It also seems like there was another roof
macro that didn’t come on the Cheap Tricks CD’s.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 10:16:48 AM PDT
Subject: re- 3D - 3D Tangent
- --This movie shows the ability to use a tangent cursor in 3D. If
there wasn't the ability for this then when I stretch the fascia in
the movie I would have had to work out the angle for the stretch and
this is not always easy to do if you do not know or remember what the
original angle was.--
I imagine there are a lot of people that don’t know this. It should be
in the 3D menus as well as a wish. There are a few 2D commands that
work like that. Cool Video Thanks!
I wonder if it works with 3d rotate?
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 10:32:32 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> handicap
- --(For those that don't know what a millimeter is, that is a whiff,
a mouse's whisker, a fleas dick. Is it hard to understand why some
building surveyors with common sense may overlook a few millimetres
here or there? And that is not in anyway to excuse the laughable
street corner)--
I know what it is. It’s pretty close to the thickness of an US dime.
Units don’t matter to me much as other countries that use the metric
system may use centimeters or even meters. I like the millimeter way
because it leaves out all of that fractional stuff. The US has the
metric system. We just never got rid of the English system either. 12
ounces just sounds better than 355ml but it both on a can of Coke and
pretty much everything else. Take your pick. In the US we just didn’t
want to change over every factory that makes a 4’ x 8’ sheet of
plywood for instance. I’m quite sure a pint is a pint across the
English speaking world. The largest spelling difference is “ers” or
“res” at the end. Whether it’s base 12 numbers or base 10 (the metric
system) make no difference, all can be represented by 0 and 1.
Although I have heard of trianary computers that have a 3rd number, my
math is not good enough to understand why this would be better.
- --Construction defects in the accessible path were the most frequent
problem--
I am not an expert but I would agree with that. We have a ramp going
up to our courthouse that is pretty lengthy without any landings and
also looks steep and spills out right into traffic. No lawsuits YET.
It is even not safe to a healthy person. I wonder how many other small
town court houses are like this? I can imagine Ironside rolling out
into traffic and it being his last case.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 9:54:21 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HC restroom sizes
- --It was NOT their error by approving it, it was yours for designing
it.
The city has no liability and if somebody sues over it, your but will
be on the line not the cities. The fact that the city accepted it
doesn't make you less liable.--
The liability will fall on the person that drew it and/or stamped it.
I’ve seen plans with 5 stamps on them with 30 pages for a 1200 sq.ft.
but when it’s for the State of Virginia, what are you going to do?
They sometimes break federal law too. I’ve been drawing everything
nominal size anyhow because here you can’t too many builders that will
take the time to read fractions. So I just add inches to everything
that way someone doesn’t get me for a ½” piece of gypsum board. I
don’t get to decide the finishing thickness. This is why a 3’ stair
might be labeled 3’-2”.
Builders are the worst for this. If you start putting 1/16” on a
drawing they will cuss and it’s hard telling what you will. I just go
larger in places where you will run into trouble and try to get rid of
the fractions or it will be screwed up anyhow.
- --Hmmm...face of stud dimensions makes sense to me...get the studs
located in the correct location and it's pretty hard to mess up the
location of the finishes. The architect certainly needs to consider
finishes and account for inconsistent thickness of some finishes (tile
for example or mudded corners of drywall) but to the guy banging out
the studs this should be of no concern.--
I would like to add the face of the stud that matters, like the inside
of a stairwell. If it’s a 12’ bedroom then what’s a half an inch? Like
JH said, I’ve seen stuff built way off and more of it with people that
do commercial work than residential for some weird reason that I have
yet to determine no matter what the plan says.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 8:11:07 AM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos - Off topic
Before there were classes on home computers.
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/27/retro_week_basic_instinct/
Off topic link of interest.
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From: "JAID" <i...@jaid.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 12:44:13 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> handicap
… We have a ramp going up to our courthouse that is pretty lengthy
without any landings and also looks steep and spills out right into
traffic…
A courthouse is a pretty public place where a bit of extra effort is
probably desirable but it could get pretty destructive and costly if
people started to think everything done in every time and place should
be brought up to current standards. To a degree it must make sense to
make do with what you have.
For me the most irrational thing is the claim that it is somehow
demeaning to have to traverse something in a way which may show up
whatever you have which may not match the usual. We all have to make a
bit of extra effort in some areas. Were my maths weak and I had to
pull out my fingers to count on or if I stuttered both may seem
unfortunate but in not necessarily reflecting the advantages I may
have any embarrassment over them would be just counter-productive. If
my bladder was weak should I demand a ‘rest room’ every 20 metres or
wear a bag? If I cannot climb the stairs which add drama to a great
museum or monument what is wrong with using the back door? We don’t
have to spoil things for everyone, doing as well as we can reasonably
would be the better measure.
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From: "JAID" <i...@jaid.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 12:57:13 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
Anyone can have an accident but failing that David would be alive and
kicking. He reckoned he produced these macros on the long train
journey from mountains to city every day. Something to do. He was
working as a software engineer at the time and likely still would be.
Residential location or work conditions must have changed so the task
didn’t fit any more. He said something around the time of giving up
but I forget what that was. Be interesting to know who he was
connected with that made him interested in these and aware of the room
to move/potential and need. I am sure Nick Pyner who has not said a
word on this would know.
DR: Yes, the one I didn’t get was his sun shader. We didn’t need it
then but I liked the fact that it gave areas. I’m only on DataCAD 13
so I don’t know if 14 does this or not but seeing what it does vs.
having the areas, I would like to see an area calculation as well. I
just wonder if he is still alive. He didn’t sound that old in 2000
when we talked on the telephone.
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From: "JAID" <i...@jaid.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:00:39 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
Exactly as I suspected the form may be David. No problem dealing with
it in the way I described.
DR: Probably not, since ours has half dovetail notches at every corner
no matter what system we use….
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From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:23:20 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
Yes, the way you described. In DataCAD with smart walls I could just
let it not cut the corners and those in, point being it takes longer
that way. I would like to have smarts that I can define like going
back to what SU Pro can do but SU Pro is not so great at annotation
but can do it as is. From what I read Trimble has bought a ton of
software companies. I have no idea how to deal with Spirit as their
English site is not as good as their German one, no dealers in the US,
etc.
What you can do with DataCAD in 3D is quite a bit but just hasn’t
changed much and, correct me if I’m wrong, the interoperability
between the two programs (Spirit & DataCAD) only goes back so far. I
think Spirit will read *.dc5 files but not any *.aec files. I think SU
will become more powerful under Trimble but also more complicated.
I’ve seen some of these larger firms using kids with Revit to do the
work and then barely look over it before stamps are applied. The plans
look pretty, but they have more mistakes than when we had drafting
machines.
It would be nice to have solids and dynamic components in DataCAD.
Then nothing could beat it in any way. The SU DataCAD combination
worked pretty good but I fear Trimble is going to price it out of
reach for the little guy and may not be as open as Google was with
their interoperability in future versions. We really need an open CAD
format that CAD programs can use so that we can use the best tool for
the job as I don’t see one doing that yet if ever. Plain Jane Udder
CAD could do it all like draw gears and machine parts and do surveying
pretty quick and you could draw houses with it but is much slower at
that than DataCAD as you wouldn’t want to draw machine parts with
DataCAD.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
////////
Exactly as I suspected the form may be David. No problem dealing with
it in the way I described.
DR: Probably not, since ours has half dovetail notches at every corner
no matter what system we use….
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From: Matthew Cockroft <ma...@procadsys.co.nz>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:57:46 PM PDT
To: dataca...@googlegroups.com
Subject: 3D - 3D Arch Windows
This movie shows the creation of a 3D arch window and placing it into
a converted 2D wall.
Watch
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.screencast.com/t/Zc7oQbx50&usg=AFQjCNEunz7_MGl4OdvABFKNhYBPeZNeFQ
Kind regards,
Matthew Cockroft
Website: www.procadsys.co.nz
Email: ma...@procadsys.co.nz
Skype: matt_pcs
Ph : +64 7 848 2005
Mob: +64 27 484 7226
P O Box 15663
Dinsdale
Hamilton 3243
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From: Robert Scott <scottreside...@gmail.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:48:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: DBUG> Trimble & SU
I don't think you should be afraid of being priced out by Trimble.
The strength of SU is the involvement of the user base which is quite
diverse and quite "cheap" and if the price point moves too high there
are better options for all around modeling software available in the
$750 range and up that will take over the Trimble/SU market
share..."Modo" for example but their are others.
Robert Scott
<DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com> wrote:
Yes, the way you described. In DataCAD with smart walls I could just
let it not cut the corners and those in, point being it takes longer
that way. I would like to have smarts that I can define like going
back to what SU Pro can do but SU Pro is not so great at annotation
but can do it as is. From what I read Trimble has bought a ton of
software companies. I have no idea how to deal with Spirit as their
English site is not as good as their German one, no dealers in the US,
etc.
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------------------------------
From: David Ramey <DRa...@oldvirginialoghomes.com>
Date: May 7, 2012 1:55:10 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Trimble & SU
It’s not just modeling. I would like to build my own smart components,
which SU calls Dynamic Components instead of being stuck with what I
get.
Regards,
David Ramey
Chief Draftsman
Old Virginia Log Homes
http://www.handhewnloghomes.com/
http://www.facebook.com/oldvaloghomes/
////////
I don't think you should be afraid of being priced out by Trimble.
The strength of SU is the involvement of the user base which is quite
diverse and quite "cheap" and if the price point moves too high there
are better options for all around modeling software available in the
$750 range and up that will take over the Trimble/SU market
share..."Modo" for example but their are others.
*******************************
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------------------------------
From: Dean Buckeridge <de...@dbarc.co.nz>
Date: May 7, 2012 2:54:05 PM PDT
Subject: RE: DBUG> Creating Videos
Could this be the Dave Henderson in question? http://
dnadave.users.sourceforge.net/
Dean Buckeridge
NZCD(Arch) LBP Design
1 Stonehaven Terrace
Hillsborough
Christchurch 8022
p: +64 (0)3 337 1713
m: +64 (0)27 227 7637
e: de...@dbarc.co.nz
w: www.dbarc.co.nz
------------------------------
End of datacad-dbug-digest V2012 #65
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