New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
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David
May 14, 2012, 3:18:28 PM5/14/12
to Dark Star Planet X
Click the link to access the links.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/05/120511-new-planet-solar-system-kuiper-belt-space-science/
New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Odd orbits of remote objects hint at unseen world, new calculations
suggest.
Artist's conception of a small icy object beyond Pluto (file picture).
Illustration courtesy G. Bacon, STScI/NASA
Richard A. Lovett in Timberline Lodge, Oregon
for National Geographic News
Published May 11, 2012
An as yet undiscovered planet might be orbiting at the dark fringes of
the solar system, according to new research.
Too far out to be easily spotted by telescopes, the potential unseen
planet appears to be making its presence felt by disturbing the orbits
of so-called Kuiper belt objects, said Rodney Gomes, an astronomer at
the National Observatory of Brazil in Rio de Janeiro.
Kuiper belt objects are small icy bodies—including some dwarf planets—
that lie beyond the orbit of Neptune.
Once considered the ninth planet in our system, the dwarf planet
Pluto, for example, is one of the largest Kuiper belt objects, at
about 1,400 miles (2,300 kilometers) wide. Dozens of the other objects
are hundreds of miles across, and more are being discovered every
year.
(See "Three New 'Plutos'? Possible Dwarf Planets Found.")
What's intriguing, Gomes said, is that, according to his new
calculations, about a half dozen Kuiper belt objects—including the
remote body known as Sedna—are in strange orbits compared to where
they should be, based on existing solar system models. (Related:
"Pluto Neighbor Gets Downsized.")
The objects' unexpected orbits have a few possible explanations, said
Gomes, who presented his findings Tuesday at a meeting of the American
Astronomical Society in Timberline Lodge, Oregon.
"But I think the easiest one is a planetary-mass solar companion"—a
planet that orbits very far out from the sun but that's massive enough
to be having gravitational effects on Kuiper belt objects.
Mystery Planet a Captured Rogue?
For the new work, Gomes analyzed the orbits of 92 Kuiper belt objects,
then compared his results to computer models of how the bodies should
be distributed, with and without an additional planet.
If there's no distant world, Gomes concludes, the models don't produce
the highly elongated orbits we see for six of the objects.
How big exactly the planetary body might be isn't clear, but there are
a lot of possibilities, Gomes added.
Based on his calculations, Gomes thinks a Neptune-size world, about
four times bigger than Earth, orbiting 140 billion miles (225 billion
kilometers) away from the sun—about 1,500 times farther than Earth—
would do the trick.
But so would a Mars-size object—roughly half Earth's size—in a highly
elongated orbit that would occasionally bring the body sweeping to
within 5 billion miles (8 billion kilometers) of the sun.
Gomes speculates that the mystery object could be a rogue planet that
was kicked out of its own star system and later captured by the sun's
gravity. (See "'Nomad' Planets More Common Than Thought, May Orbit
Black Holes.")
Or the putative planet could have formed closer to our sun, only to be
cast outward by gravitational encounters with other planets.
However, actually finding such a world would be a challenge.
To begin with, the planet might be pretty dim. Also, Gomes's
simulations don't give astronomers any clue as to where to point their
telescopes—"it can be anywhere," he said.
No Smoking Gun
Other astronomers are intrigued but say they'll want a lot more proof
before they're willing to agree that the solar system—again—has nine
planets. (Also see "Record Nine-Planet Star System Discovered?")
"Obviously, finding another planet in the solar system is a big deal,"
said Rory Barnes, an astronomer at the University of Washington. But,
he added, "I don't think he really has any evidence that suggests it
is out there."
Instead, he added, Gomes "has laid out a way to determine how such a
planet could sculpt parts of our solar system. So while, yes, the
evidence doesn't exist yet, I thought the bigger point was that he
showed us that there are ways to find that evidence."
Douglas Hamilton, an astronomer from the University of Maryland,
agrees that the new findings are far from definitive.
"What he showed in his probability arguments is that it's slightly
more likely. He doesn't have a smoking gun yet."
And Hal Levison, an astronomer at the Southwest Research Institute in
Boulder, Colorado, says he isn't sure what to make of Gomes's finding.
"It seems surprising to me that a [solar] companion as small as
Neptune could have the effect he sees," Levison said.
But "I know Rodney, and I'm sure he did the calculations right."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/05/120511-new-planet-solar-system-kuiper-belt-space-science/
New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Odd orbits of remote objects hint at unseen world, new calculations
suggest.
Artist's conception of a small icy object beyond Pluto (file picture).
Illustration courtesy G. Bacon, STScI/NASA
Richard A. Lovett in Timberline Lodge, Oregon
for National Geographic News
Published May 11, 2012
An as yet undiscovered planet might be orbiting at the dark fringes of
the solar system, according to new research.
Too far out to be easily spotted by telescopes, the potential unseen
planet appears to be making its presence felt by disturbing the orbits
of so-called Kuiper belt objects, said Rodney Gomes, an astronomer at
the National Observatory of Brazil in Rio de Janeiro.
Kuiper belt objects are small icy bodies—including some dwarf planets—
that lie beyond the orbit of Neptune.
Once considered the ninth planet in our system, the dwarf planet
Pluto, for example, is one of the largest Kuiper belt objects, at
about 1,400 miles (2,300 kilometers) wide. Dozens of the other objects
are hundreds of miles across, and more are being discovered every
year.
(See "Three New 'Plutos'? Possible Dwarf Planets Found.")
What's intriguing, Gomes said, is that, according to his new
calculations, about a half dozen Kuiper belt objects—including the
remote body known as Sedna—are in strange orbits compared to where
they should be, based on existing solar system models. (Related:
"Pluto Neighbor Gets Downsized.")
The objects' unexpected orbits have a few possible explanations, said
Gomes, who presented his findings Tuesday at a meeting of the American
Astronomical Society in Timberline Lodge, Oregon.
"But I think the easiest one is a planetary-mass solar companion"—a
planet that orbits very far out from the sun but that's massive enough
to be having gravitational effects on Kuiper belt objects.
Mystery Planet a Captured Rogue?
For the new work, Gomes analyzed the orbits of 92 Kuiper belt objects,
then compared his results to computer models of how the bodies should
be distributed, with and without an additional planet.
If there's no distant world, Gomes concludes, the models don't produce
the highly elongated orbits we see for six of the objects.
How big exactly the planetary body might be isn't clear, but there are
a lot of possibilities, Gomes added.
Based on his calculations, Gomes thinks a Neptune-size world, about
four times bigger than Earth, orbiting 140 billion miles (225 billion
kilometers) away from the sun—about 1,500 times farther than Earth—
would do the trick.
But so would a Mars-size object—roughly half Earth's size—in a highly
elongated orbit that would occasionally bring the body sweeping to
within 5 billion miles (8 billion kilometers) of the sun.
Gomes speculates that the mystery object could be a rogue planet that
was kicked out of its own star system and later captured by the sun's
gravity. (See "'Nomad' Planets More Common Than Thought, May Orbit
Black Holes.")
Or the putative planet could have formed closer to our sun, only to be
cast outward by gravitational encounters with other planets.
However, actually finding such a world would be a challenge.
To begin with, the planet might be pretty dim. Also, Gomes's
simulations don't give astronomers any clue as to where to point their
telescopes—"it can be anywhere," he said.
No Smoking Gun
Other astronomers are intrigued but say they'll want a lot more proof
before they're willing to agree that the solar system—again—has nine
planets. (Also see "Record Nine-Planet Star System Discovered?")
"Obviously, finding another planet in the solar system is a big deal,"
said Rory Barnes, an astronomer at the University of Washington. But,
he added, "I don't think he really has any evidence that suggests it
is out there."
Instead, he added, Gomes "has laid out a way to determine how such a
planet could sculpt parts of our solar system. So while, yes, the
evidence doesn't exist yet, I thought the bigger point was that he
showed us that there are ways to find that evidence."
Douglas Hamilton, an astronomer from the University of Maryland,
agrees that the new findings are far from definitive.
"What he showed in his probability arguments is that it's slightly
more likely. He doesn't have a smoking gun yet."
And Hal Levison, an astronomer at the Southwest Research Institute in
Boulder, Colorado, says he isn't sure what to make of Gomes's finding.
"It seems surprising to me that a [solar] companion as small as
Neptune could have the effect he sees," Levison said.
But "I know Rodney, and I'm sure he did the calculations right."
Alan Cornette
May 14, 2012, 9:02:54 PM5/14/12
to hinm...@hotmail.com, dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Why does much of what is mentioned sound so familiar. He could have learned some of this from Andy's site and group and studied Sitchin work. Al C.
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Barry Warmkessel
May 14, 2012, 10:30:42 PM5/14/12
to Alen Cornette, Dark Star
I left a couple of comments at:
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:02:54 -0400
Subject: Re: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
From: alanco...@gmail.com
To: hinm...@hotmail.com
CC: dark-star...@googlegroups.com
SECRET ROGUE PLANET MAY BE HIDING BEHIND NEPTUNE
and sent an email to Rodney Gomes but no response yet.
There is more and more work suggesting this distant body like the following.
MOON ANOMALY MAY BE DUE TO DARK STAR
"In principle, a viable candidate would be a putative trans-Plutonian massive object (PlanetX/Nemesis/Tyche), recently revamped to accommodate certain features of the architecture of the Kuiper belt and of the distribution of the comets in the Oort cloud, since it would cause a non-vanishing long-term variation of the eccentricity. Actually, the values for its mass and distance needed to explain the empirically determined increase of the lunar eccentricity would be highly unrealistic and in contrast with the most recent viable theoretical scenarios for the existence of such a body. For example, a terrestrial-sized body should be located at just 30AU [Astronomical Units], while an object with the mass of Jupiter should be at 200AU."
or
ON THE ANOMALOUS SECULAR INCREASE OF THE ECCENTRICITY OF THE ORBIT OF THE MOON
On the other hand, the values for the physical and orbital parameters of such a hypothetical body required to obtain at least the right order of magnitude for e(epsilon) are completely unrealistic: suffice it to say that an Earth-sized planet would be at 30 au, while a Jovian mass would be at 200 au. Thus, the issue of finding a satisfactorily explanation for the anomalous behavior of the Moon’s eccentricity remains open.
"In principle, a viable candidate would be a putative trans-Plutonian massive object (PlanetX/Nemesis/Tyche), recently revamped to accommodate certain features of the architecture of the Kuiper belt and of the distribution of the comets in the Oort cloud, since it would cause a non-vanishing long-term variation of the eccentricity. Actually, the values for its mass and distance needed to explain the empirically determined increase of the lunar eccentricity would be highly unrealistic and in contrast with the most recent viable theoretical scenarios for the existence of such a body. For example, a terrestrial-sized body should be located at just 30AU [Astronomical Units], while an object with the mass of Jupiter should be at 200AU."
or
ON THE ANOMALOUS SECULAR INCREASE OF THE ECCENTRICITY OF THE ORBIT OF THE MOON
On the other hand, the values for the physical and orbital parameters of such a hypothetical body required to obtain at least the right order of magnitude for e(epsilon) are completely unrealistic: suffice it to say that an Earth-sized planet would be at 30 au, while a Jovian mass would be at 200 au. Thus, the issue of finding a satisfactorily explanation for the anomalous behavior of the Moon’s eccentricity remains open.
Vulcan's average orbital radius is about 291 AU.
I bet we are hit first by a meteorite or comet before our astronomers wake up to the casual agent - a large planet or dark star in our solar system.
When I was in industry, some of my colleagues use to criticize me because I (allegedly) characterized humans as the 'retards of the galaxy'. How long has this message board been in existence and look how little interest the astronomical community has in a half Jupiter sized body in our own solar system that has been known about for 4300 years.
I saw my non scientific wife take a globe and explain continental drift to some other lady friends, and this was a concept that took the scientific community 48 years to accept.
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:02:54 -0400
Subject: Re: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
From: alanco...@gmail.com
To: hinm...@hotmail.com
CC: dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Andy Z
May 15, 2012, 4:04:34 AM5/15/12
to dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Gomes is sticking his head on the block with this. I suspect the general position for astronomers interested in the outer solar system is this: the evidence is shifting fairly rapidly towards there being a massive outer planet in a strange, elongated orbit around the Sun. The two major factors increasing the probability of this are (1) anomalies in the outer solar system which indicate the presence of a perturbing object and (2) the increasing evidence of a vast swath of rogue, dark planetary objects in interstellar space, to the extent that these old, cold brown dwarfs might even account for the galaxy's missing mass. Given the statistics of this kind of scenario, it would now be odd if the Sun didn't have a companion object.
But astronomers still don't want to be associated with the Planet X/Nibiru debate, for fear of destroying their academic reputations. Gomes is breaking away from the pack, as several other astronomers have done before him. I applaud that, but it's also interesting to see the measured, sceptical response levelled at him by his peers. They haven't exactly ripped into him, but they're clearly reticent about supporting this move in our direction! Effectively they're questioning whether he is wise to be saying what he is saying, at least in public. I also sense that they're hedging, which is very encouraging...
Many thanks,
Andy Lloyd
Author and artist,
http://www.darkstar1.co.uk
http://www.andylloyd.org
From: yari...@hotmail.com
To: alanco...@gmail.com; dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 02:30:42 +0000
But astronomers still don't want to be associated with the Planet X/Nibiru debate, for fear of destroying their academic reputations. Gomes is breaking away from the pack, as several other astronomers have done before him. I applaud that, but it's also interesting to see the measured, sceptical response levelled at him by his peers. They haven't exactly ripped into him, but they're clearly reticent about supporting this move in our direction! Effectively they're questioning whether he is wise to be saying what he is saying, at least in public. I also sense that they're hedging, which is very encouraging...
Many thanks,
Andy Lloyd
Author and artist,
http://www.darkstar1.co.uk
http://www.andylloyd.org
From: yari...@hotmail.com
To: alanco...@gmail.com; dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 02:30:42 +0000
Barry Warmkessel
May 15, 2012, 4:42:42 AM5/15/12
to Amy, Dark Star
Its outermost planet is swinging through our system, and is coming up from below the Ecliptic.
Maybe, but it cannot do this too many times or it will be ejected from our solar system via interactions with Jupiter. The same is true of comet swams in a nominal 3313 year obit. They last a few million years or so and then they are gone.
since it is small, about the size of Pluto, it will be very had to spot.
It should be about at a distance of the asteroid belt in the next few months. If they are comets with volatiles on them, they may glow, but such material may all be cooked off by now. Amateurs should be spotting a Pluto size planet soon.
Subject: Re: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
To: yari...@hotmail.com
Well, there is a Brown Dwarf Star and 5 of its planets out beyond the orbit of Pluto. Its outermost planet is swinging through our system, and is coming up from below the Ecliptic. If the Dwarf Star should be entering our system, there would be far more disruption in our system than we have seen. Nibiru is coming, and since it is small, about the size of Pluto, it will be very had to spot.
This is why all of the nations, including the Vatican have eyes down in Antartica.
Sincerely,
Amy Evans
Amy Evans
From: Barry Warmkessel <yari...@hotmail.com>
To: Alen Cornette <alanco...@gmail.com>; Dark Star <dark-star...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:30 PM
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
To: Alen Cornette <alanco...@gmail.com>; Dark Star <dark-star...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:30 PM
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
I left a couple of comments at:
SECRET ROGUE PLANET MAY BE HIDING BEHIND NEPTUNE
and sent an email to Rodney Gomes but no response yet.
There is more and more work suggesting this distant body like the following.
MOON ANOMALY MAY BE DUE TO DARK STAR
"In principle, a viable candidate would be a putative trans-Plutonian massive object (PlanetX/Nemesis/Tyche), recently revamped to accommodate certain features of the architecture of the Kuiper belt and of the distribution of the comets in the Oort cloud, since it would cause a non-vanishing long-term variation of the eccentricity. Actually, the values for its mass and distance needed to explain the empirically determined increase of the lunar eccentricity would be highly unrealistic and in contrast with the most recent viable theoretical scenarios for the existence of such a body. For example, a terrestrial-sized body should be located at just 30AU [Astronomical Units], while an object with the mass of Jupiter should be at 200AU."
or
ON THE ANOMALOUS SECULAR INCREASE OF THE ECCENTRICITY OF THE ORBIT OF THE MOON
On the other hand, the values for the physical and orbital parameters of such a hypothetical body required to obtain at least the right order of magnitude for e(epsilon) are completely unrealistic: suffice it to say that an Earth-sized planet would be at 30 au, while a Jovian mass would be at 200 au. Thus, the issue of finding a satisfactorily explanation for the anomalous behavior of the Moon’s eccentricity remains open.
"In principle, a viable candidate would be a putative trans-Plutonian massive object (PlanetX/Nemesis/Tyche), recently revamped to accommodate certain features of the architecture of the Kuiper belt and of the distribution of the comets in the Oort cloud, since it would cause a non-vanishing long-term variation of the eccentricity. Actually, the values for its mass and distance needed to explain the empirically determined increase of the lunar eccentricity would be highly unrealistic and in contrast with the most recent viable theoretical scenarios for the existence of such a body. For example, a terrestrial-sized body should be located at just 30AU [Astronomical Units], while an object with the mass of Jupiter should be at 200AU."
or
ON THE ANOMALOUS SECULAR INCREASE OF THE ECCENTRICITY OF THE ORBIT OF THE MOON
On the other hand, the values for the physical and orbital parameters of such a hypothetical body required to obtain at least the right order of magnitude for e(epsilon) are completely unrealistic: suffice it to say that an Earth-sized planet would be at 30 au, while a Jovian mass would be at 200 au. Thus, the issue of finding a satisfactorily explanation for the anomalous behavior of the Moon’s eccentricity remains open.
Vulcan's average orbital radius is about 291 AU.
I bet we are hit first by a meteorite or comet before our astronomers wake up to the casual agent - a large planet or dark star in our solar system.
When I was in industry, some of my colleagues use to criticize me because I (allegedly) characterized humans as the 'retards of the galaxy'. How long has this message board been in existence and look
how little interest the astronomical community has in a half Jupiter sized body in our own solar system that has been known about for 4300 years.
I saw my non scientific wife take a globe and explain continental drift to some other lady friends, and this was a concept that took the scientific community 48 years to accept.
Barry Warmkessel
May 15, 2012, 2:54:56 PM5/15/12
to Amy, Dark Star
A heavenly object with a high angle to the Ecliptic will continue to climb in angle on each orbit until it is either thrown from the system,
The numbering is different and should start with 6.
Note how the last one compares to Kissinger's 2011 advice.
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 06:35:44 -0700
We have software by which we can use a test object and let it orbit around the Sun and Vulcan for a long time. We use a numerical integrator to model the gravitational effects of whatever bodies we want to include and is not limited to just a three body situation.
Herb used a test comet captured near Vulcan (~48.x degrees) and let it run for a while. The comet's orbit was cranked down and then up over the years. I think Herb used an initial 3313 year period.
Mother Shipton is really great, especially when one considers her track record. We interpret much of the stuff to be a comet swarm or impact event.
- Verse 3. A comet swarm with 7 or 10 obvious comets
- Verse 4. Lots of shooting stars or small meteoroids from the comet's debris field.
- Verse 6. People (a woman) flee to the wilds (desert) and hide out for 1,260 days.
- Verse 7. The comet swarms Taimat and Marduk appear to "fight".
- Verse 13. A comet strikes Earth.
- Verse 15. A tsunami results.
The numbering is different and should start with 6.
Note how the last one compares to Kissinger's 2011 advice.
HENRY KISSINGER: "IF YOU CAN'T HEAR THE DRUMS OF WAR YOU MUST BE DEAF" - 27/11/2011 - February 6, 2012
"The United States is bating China and Russia, and the final nail in the coffin will be Iran, which is, of course, the main target of Israel. . . We're like the sharp shooter daring the noob to pick up the gun, and when they try, it's bang bang.
The coming war will will be so severe that only one superpower can win, and that's us folks. . . O how I have dreamed of this delightful moment."
"Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people."
Mr Kissinger then added: "If you are an ordinary person, then you can prepare yourself for war by moving to the countryside and building a farm, but you must take guns with you, as the hordes of starving will be roaming. Also, even though the elite will have their safe havens and specialist shelters, they must be just as careful during the war as the ordinary civilians, because their shelters can still be compromised."
"The United States is bating China and Russia, and the final nail in the coffin will be Iran, which is, of course, the main target of Israel. . . We're like the sharp shooter daring the noob to pick up the gun, and when they try, it's bang bang.
The coming war will will be so severe that only one superpower can win, and that's us folks. . . O how I have dreamed of this delightful moment."
"Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people."
Mr Kissinger then added: "If you are an ordinary person, then you can prepare yourself for war by moving to the countryside and building a farm, but you must take guns with you, as the hordes of starving will be roaming. Also, even though the elite will have their safe havens and specialist shelters, they must be just as careful during the war as the ordinary civilians, because their shelters can still be compromised."
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 06:35:44 -0700
From: capricor...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
To: yari...@hotmail.com
Yes, the Kozi mechancism theory would kick in ... just as mentioned in the Mother Shipton prophecy ...
"A fiery dragon will cross the sky Six
times before the earth shall die. Mankind will tremble and frightened be For the
six heralds in this prophecy."
A heavenly object with a high angle to the Ecliptic will continue to climb in angle on each orbit until it is either thrown from the system, or it collides with the host star or one of the planets ... or something to that effect :)
Sincerely,
Amy Evans
Amy Evans
From: Barry Warmkessel <yari...@hotmail.com>
To: Amy <capricor...@yahoo.com>; Dark Star <dark-star...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:42 AM
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
To: Amy <capricor...@yahoo.com>; Dark Star <dark-star...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:42 AM
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Its outermost planet is swinging through our system, and is coming up from below the Ecliptic.
Maybe, but it cannot do this too many times or it will be ejected from our solar system via interactions with Jupiter. The same is true of comet swams in a nominal 3313 year obit. They last a few million years or so and then they are gone.
since it is small, about the size of Pluto, it will be very had to spot.
It should be about at a distance of the asteroid belt in the next few months. If they are comets with volatiles on them, they may glow, but such material may all be cooked off by now. Amateurs should be spotting a Pluto size planet soon.
Lee
May 15, 2012, 6:51:25 PM5/15/12
to andy...@hotmail.com, dark-star...@googlegroups.com
There is probably a parade of Sedna-sized objects following the same elliptical orbit, but somehow, I don't see them having much gravitational influence to our solar system per se. The big-ticket item is a 4-Jupiter mass (Dark Star) object stirring the drink. The outer planets (notably pluto & uranus) didn't get their tilt from smaller objects. And the Kuiper Gap didn't get cleaned up as a result of small objects passing by.
So, this researcher is not too far off the mark by saying that there is a smaller object, but he misses the mark (out of fear his colleagues would object?) by not implying that something bigger is driving this train...
--Lee
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Z
Sent: May 15, 2012 4:04 AM
To: dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Gomes is sticking his head on the block with this. I suspect the general position for astronomers interested in the outer solar system is this: the evidence is shifting fairly rapidly towards there being a massive outer planet in a strange, elongated orbit around the Sun. The two major factors increasing the probability of this are (1) anomalies in the outer solar system which indicate the presence of a perturbing object and (2) the increasing evidence of a vast swath of rogue, dark planetary objects in interstellar space, to the extent that these old, cold brown dwarfs might even account for the galaxy's missing mass. Given the statistics of this kind of scenario, it would now be odd if the Sun didn't have a companion object.
But astronomers still don't want to be associated with the Planet X/Nibiru debate, for fear of destroying their academic reputations. Gomes is breaking away from the pack, as several other astronomers have done before him. I applaud that, but it's also interesting to see the measured, sceptical response levelled at him by his peers. They haven't exactly ripped into him, but they're clearly reticent about supporting this move in our direction! Effectively they're questioning whether he is wise to be saying what he is saying, at least in public. I also sense that they're hedging, which is very encouraging...
Many thanks,
Andy Lloyd
Author and artist,
http://www.darkstar1.co.uk
http://www.andylloyd.org
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 02:30:42 +0000
I left a couple of comments at:SECRET ROGUE PLANET MAY BE HIDING BEHIND NEPTUNEand sent an email to Rodney Gomes but no response yet.There is more and more work suggesting this distant body like the following.MOON ANOMALY MAY BE DUE TO DARK STAR
"In principle, a viable candidate would be a putative trans-Plutonian massive object (PlanetX/Nemesis/Tyche), recently revamped to accommodate certain features of the architecture of the Kuiper belt and of the distribution of the comets in the Oort cloud, since it would cause a non-vanishing long-term variation of the eccentricity. Actually, the values for its mass and distance needed to explain the empirically determined increase of the lunar eccentricity would be highly unrealistic and in contrast with the most recent viable theoretical scenarios for the existence of such a body. For example, a terrestrial-sized body should be located at just 30AU [Astronomical Units], while an object with the mass of Jupiter should be at 200AU."
or
ON THE ANOMALOUS SECULAR INCREASE OF THE ECCENTRICITY OF THE ORBIT OF THE MOON
On the other hand, the values for the physical and orbital parameters of such a hypothetical body required to obtain at least the right order of magnitude for e(epsilon) are completely unrealistic: suffice it to say that an Earth-sized planet would be at 30 au, while a Jovian mass would be at 200 au. Thus, the issue of finding a satisfactorily explanation for the anomalous behavior of the Moon’s eccentricity remains open.Vulcan's average orbital radius is about 291 AU.I bet we are hit first by a meteorite or comet before our astronomers wake up to the casual agent - a large planet or dark star in our solar system.When I was in industry, some of my colleagues use to criticize me because I (allegedly) characterized humans as the 'retards of the galaxy'. How long has this message board been in existence and look how little interest the astronomical community has in a half Jupiter sized body in our own solar system that has been known about for 4300 years.I saw my non scientific wife take a globe and explain continental drift to some other lady friends, and this was a concept that took the scientific community 48 years to accept.
________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
Barry Warmkessel
May 16, 2012, 6:47:01 AM5/16/12
to zle...@peoplepc.com, Dark Star
(out of fear his colleagues would object?)
Nothing closes the mind like fear, and this is likely a correct observation.
Soviet admiral Gorshkov said the best sailors were those who came from areas furthest from the sea.
This is because they were not ingrained with the fixed ways of those that had grown up around ships.
This seems to apply to astronomers as well. The best may come from areas not constrained by the classical study of astronomy.
To me, may of the people on this message board recognize the obvious. It does not take a genius to recognize that the large planets on the Akkadian seal represent the Jovian planets in our solar system. Plotting their diameter vs. the log of the Jovian planets (and Sun's) mass proves the point. This is a Physics 1A laboratory exercise. This thinking is only a tiny way outside the box and is analysis that should be understandable to a college freshman.
One would think that our astronomers who are charged with investigating the Universe should be just a tiny bit more imaginative.
Fear is the only think that I also can imagine that is closing their minds.
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:51:25 -0400
From: zle...@peoplepc.com
To: andy...@hotmail.com; dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Alan Cornette
May 16, 2012, 7:38:05 AM5/16/12
to yari...@hotmail.com, dark-star...@googlegroups.com
Totally agree, Barry.
Fear is a terrible detriment to learning. This is why Sitchin was probably the only person in the world who could have done the research he did. His background: Jewish, trained journalist, and a person impassioned to learn the truth of his ancient homeland and the ancient history of Homo sapiens. It mattered not that he was not a trained astronomer. I appreciate the fact that you, as a professional (obviously) could, and would, think out of the box and look for the obvious, not what established "scholars" would force you to think and believe. Scholars in quotes because the name appears to be an oxymoron kind of thing. Thinking out of the box gets us into trouble sometimes but it's the only way to "find our way home."
This is why, even though I'm not an astronomer, nevertheless, I can be completely open, and have no fear, in my beliefs that electricity plays a very important role in space - more important than scholars want to admit. I appreciate Andy's attitude, apparently keeping an open mind to all things even remotely connected to our main theme. Hopefully, we all learn from it. Thanks for the comment. Al C.
This is why, even though I'm not an astronomer, nevertheless, I can be completely open, and have no fear, in my beliefs that electricity plays a very important role in space - more important than scholars want to admit. I appreciate Andy's attitude, apparently keeping an open mind to all things even remotely connected to our main theme. Hopefully, we all learn from it. Thanks for the comment. Al C.
Lee
May 16, 2012, 6:10:35 PM5/16/12
to Barry Warmkessel, Dark Star
...and, Goebbels would certainly be proud of today's mainstream media as well!--Lee
Barry Warmkessel
May 25, 2012, 4:14:27 AM5/25/12
to Barry Warmkessel, Dark Star
A heavenly object with a high angle to the Ecliptic will continue to climb in angle on each orbit until it is either thrown from the system,
We have a numerical integrator that models the gravitational forces of multiple objects in the solar system. It shows no signs that Vulcan's orbital inclination
(~48.x degrees) is changing.
Eris, a known dwarf planet in our solar system, has an orbital inclination
(~44 degrees) and it is still around. If it is going to be climbing in orbital inclination, that has not yet been detected by astronomers nor is it even hypothesized as far as I know.
When these bodies were first formed, Vulcan was at (~45 degrees) according to the ASTRO-METRIC model.
http://www.yaridanjo.warmkessel.com/
We think the reason for the discrepancy is a passing star. But if its inclination is still changing, it has been around for a long time. We think Vulcan will be around for the lifetime of the galaxy.
We think the reason for the discrepancy is a passing star. But if its inclination is still changing, it has been around for a long time. We think Vulcan will be around for the lifetime of the galaxy.
Subject: RE: New Planet Found in Our Solar System?
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:54:56 +0000
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