gOS: Where Computers Are Headed?
Scott Granneman
"We reported Thursday on the gPC going on sale at Wal-Mart, a $199 bare
minimum PC that runs a Linux package by the name of gOS. Unlike some
initial reports suggested, this isn’t the long fabled Google Operating
System, but the folks behind it most definitely had Google on their mind.
...
gOS is billed as “Linux for human beings who shop at Wal-Mart” but how
does it really stack up? gOS is available for download so I gave it
whirl under VMWare Fusion to see if we are seeing the future of PCs."
scott
--
R. Scott Granneman
sc...@granneman.com ~ www.granneman.com
Full list of publications @ http://www.granneman.com/publications
My new book: Linux Phrasebook @ http://www.granneman.com/books
"Lisa, if you don't like your job, you don't strike. You just go in
there every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way."
---Homer Simpson
Robert Citek
> http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/04/gos-where-computers-are-headed/
The comments are really goofy. Lots of Linux/Windows bashing. And
then there's Plan-9. Weird.
For what it's worth, it looks like a nice machine and gOS look like a
nice working environment.
Regards,
- Robert
Scott Granneman
scott
Robert Citek
> for $200, it's hard to go wrong.
Agreed. I'm going to get one just to try it out. They do have a 15
day return policy. - Robert
Robert Citek
Got it. Will try it Wednesday night at ByteWorks. - Robert
Robert Citek
Tried it. Liked it. /etc/issues.net shows "Ubuntu 7.10" so I guess gOS
is the Ubuntu folks were talking about. I took some pictures and screen
shots, hoping to put them up on the web Friday night.
Below is an lshw listing, so you can see what's in it.
Regards,
- Robert
-----
gpc
description: Desktop Computer
width: 32 bits
capabilities: smbios-2.3 dmi-2.3
configuration: boot=normal chassis=desktop
*-core
description: Motherboard
product: ID-PCM7G
vendor: pc1
physical id: 0
*-firmware
description: BIOS
vendor: Phoenix Technologies, LTD
physical id: 0
version: 6.00 PG (08/24/2007)
size: 128KB
capacity: 448KB
capabilities: isa pci pnp apm upgrade shadowing cdboot
bootselect socketedrom edd int13floppy360 int13floppy1200 int13floppy720
int13floppy2880 int5printscreen int9keyboard int14serial int17printer
int10video acpi usb agp ls120boot zipboot biosbootspecification
*-cpu
description: CPU
product: VIA Esther processor 1500MHz
vendor: CentaurHauls
physical id: 4
bus info: cpu@0
version: PC2500
slot: Socket 370
size: 1500MHz
capacity: 1500MHz
width: 32 bits
clock: 100MHz
capabilities: fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr pae mce
cx8 apic sep mtrr pge cmov pat clflush acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 tm nx up
pni rng rng_en ace ace_en ace2 ace2_en phe phe_en pmm pmm_en
*-cache:0
description: L1 cache
physical id: 8
slot: Internal Cache
size: 128KB
capacity: 128KB
capabilities: synchronous internal write-back
*-cache:1
description: L2 cache
physical id: 9
slot: External Cache
size: 128KB
capacity: 128KB
capabilities: synchronous external write-back
*-memory
description: System Memory
physical id: 17
slot: System board or motherboard
size: 512MB
capacity: 1GB
*-bank:0
description: DIMM
product: None
vendor: None
physical id: 0
serial: None
slot: A0
size: 512MB
*-bank:1
description: DIMM [empty]
product: None
vendor: None
physical id: 1
serial: None
slot: A1
*-pci:0
description: Host bridge
product: CN700/VN800/P4M800CE/Pro Host Bridge
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 100
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.0
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 66MHz
configuration: driver=agpgart-via latency=8 module=via_agp
*-pci
description: PCI bridge
product: VT8237 PCI Bridge
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 1
bus info: pci@0000:00:01.0
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 66MHz
capabilities: pci pm normal_decode bus_master cap_list
*-display
description: VGA compatible controller
product: UniChrome Pro IGP
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 0
bus info: pci@0000:01:00.0
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 66MHz
capabilities: pm agp agp-3.0 vga bus_master cap_list
configuration: latency=32 mingnt=2
*-communication UNCLAIMED
description: Communication controller
product: Agere Systems
vendor: Agere Systems
physical id: a
bus info: pci@0000:00:0a.0
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm bus_master cap_list
configuration: latency=32
*-ide:0
description: IDE interface
product: VIA VT6420 SATA RAID Controller
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: f
bus info: pci@0000:00:0f.0
version: 80
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: ide pm bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=sata_via latency=32 module=sata_via
*-ide:1
description: IDE interface
product: VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus
Master IDE
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: f.1
bus info: pci@0000:00:0f.1
version: 06
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: ide pm bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=VIA_IDE latency=32 module=via82cxxx
*-ide:0
description: IDE Channel 0
physical id: 0
bus info: ide@0
logical name: ide0
clock: 33MHz
*-disk
description: ATA Disk
product: ST380215A
vendor: Seagate
physical id: 0
bus info: ide@0.0
logical name: /dev/hda
version: 3.AAC
serial: 9QZ4GZGD
size: 74GB
capacity: 74GB
capabilities: ata dma lba iordy smart security pm
partitioned partitioned:dos
configuration: mode=udma5 smart=on
*-volume:0
description: Linux filesystem partition
physical id: 1
bus info: ide@0.0,1
logical name: /dev/hda1
capacity: 73GB
capabilities: primary bootable
*-volume:1
description: Extended partition
physical id: 2
bus info: ide@0.0,2
logical name: /dev/hda2
size: 1278MB
capacity: 1278MB
capabilities: primary extended partitioned
partitioned:extended
*-logicalvolume
description: Linux swap / Solaris partition
physical id: 5
logical name: /dev/hda5
capacity: 1278MB
capabilities: nofs
*-ide:1
description: IDE Channel 1
physical id: 1
bus info: ide@1
logical name: ide1
clock: 33MHz
*-cdrom
description: DVD reader
product: SONY CD-RW CRX320EE
physical id: 0
bus info: ide@1.0
logical name: /dev/hdc
version: RYK4
serial: 2007090600011550
capabilities: packet atapi cdrom removable
nonmagnetic dma lba iordy audio cd-r cd-rw dvd
configuration: mode=udma2 status=nodisc
*-usb:0
description: USB Controller
product: VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 10
bus info: pci@0000:00:10.0
version: 81
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm uhci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=32 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:1
description: USB Controller
product: VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 10.1
bus info: pci@0000:00:10.1
version: 81
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm uhci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=32 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:2
description: USB Controller
product: VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 10.2
bus info: pci@0000:00:10.2
version: 81
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm uhci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=32 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:3
description: USB Controller
product: VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 10.3
bus info: pci@0000:00:10.3
version: 81
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm uhci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=32 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:4
description: USB Controller
product: USB 2.0
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 10.4
bus info: pci@0000:00:10.4
version: 86
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm ehci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=ehci_hcd latency=32 module=ehci_hcd
*-isa
description: ISA bridge
product: VT8237 ISA bridge [KT600/K8T800/K8T890 South]
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 11
bus info: pci@0000:00:11.0
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: isa pm bus_master cap_list
configuration: latency=0
*-multimedia
description: Multimedia audio controller
product: VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 11.5
bus info: pci@0000:00:11.5
version: 60
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm cap_list
configuration: driver=VIA 82xx Audio latency=0
module=snd_via82xx
*-network
description: Ethernet interface
product: RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+
vendor: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
physical id: 13
bus info: pci@0000:00:13.0
logical name: eth1
version: 10
serial: 00:1a:4d:db:5b:f9
size: 100MB/s
capacity: 100MB/s
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm bus_master cap_list ethernet physical tp
mii 10bt 10bt-fd 100bt 100bt-fd autonegotiation
configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes
driver=8139too driverversion=0.9.28 duplex=full ip=192.168.0.43
latency=32 link=yes maxlatency=64 mingnt=32 module=8139too multicast=yes
port=MII speed=100MB/s
*-pci:1
description: Host bridge
product: CN700/VN800/P4M800CE/Pro Host Bridge
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 101
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.1
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
*-pci:2
description: Host bridge
product: CN700/VN800/P4M800CE/Pro Host Bridge
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 102
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.2
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
*-pci:3
description: Host bridge
product: PT890 Host Bridge
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 103
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.3
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
*-pci:4
description: Host bridge
product: CN700/VN800/P4M800CE/Pro Host Bridge
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 104
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.4
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
*-pci:5
description: Host bridge
product: CN700/VN800/P4M800CE/Pro Host Bridge
vendor: VIA Technologies, Inc.
physical id: 105
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.7
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
Craig Tatham
> is the Ubuntu folks were talking about. I took some pictures and screen
> shots, hoping to put them up on the web Friday night.
Robert et al. If you are interested, here is a YouTube video of gOS.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6QUJffGbEvM
Craig
Robert Citek
> Tried it. Liked it. /etc/issues.net shows "Ubuntu 7.10" so I guess gOS
> is the Ubuntu folks were talking about. I took some pictures and screen
> shots, hoping to put them up on the web Friday night.
Still working on uploading the pictures and screenshots. In the mean
time, I discovered a few more items:
- no floppy drive (no biggie)
- uses the Delete key to enter BIOS
- can boot from USB hard drive [*]
- a generic Ubuntu 7.04 install runs just fine on it
- boots and runs Knoppix 5.1.1 just fine
The trick to booting from a USB HDD is to attach the USB drive, boot
into BIOS, select the HDD boot order, move the USB drive to the first
position, and finally press F10 to Save&Exit, which reboots the machine.
Regards,
- Robert
tms
> On 11/08/2007 12:22 AM, Robert Citek wrote:
> > Tried it. Liked it. /etc/issues.net shows "Ubuntu 7.10" so I guess gOS
> > is the Ubuntu folks were talking about. I took some pictures and screen
> > shots, hoping to put them up on the web Friday night.
Robert, I have a question about your gOS machine. From the Ubuntu web
site: "Unfortunately, DVD support cannot be provided by default in
Ubuntu due to legal and technical restrictions." Specifically, they are
talking about the required libdvdread3 script, install-css.sh ...
Using that library, and that script, in order to play a DVD on my Ubuntu
computer is probably illegal here in Amurika. Even though I bought the
DVD, the computer, and the DVD player.
How is your gOS machine getting around this legal issue? You said it
plays DVDs. What player is it using? What codecs? And how is it
managing to do this without falling foul of the DMCA?
Thanks,
t.
--
*** Propositions arrived at purely by logical
means are completely empty as regards
reality. - Albert Einstein ***
Scott Granneman
that hasn't paid protection money to the MPAA & Macrovision to play
DVDs on Linux.
A couple of Linux distros allow you to play DVDs - I think Xandros &
Linspire do so, for instance. They pd the necessary license fees to do
so.
And yes, this is ridiculous, and I play DVDs on my *buntu box often,
and I'm breaking the law every single time.
Scott
Robert Citek
> It's not illegal to play DVDs on Linux; it's illegal to use software
> that hasn't paid protection money to the MPAA & Macrovision to play
> DVDs on Linux.
is, to whom do I write out the check and for how much?
Regards,
- Robert
Robert Citek
Craig Buchek
Windows Media codecs. They don't seem to have anything for DVD yet
though.
There's LinDVD (http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Product_Profile.jsp?
p=LinDVD) but they only sell to manufacturers. The pay versions of
Mandriva come with it. (Possibly only version 2007.0; I found
something saying that it's not in 2007.1; no clue about 2008.) Someone
wrote instructions on how to make the Mandriva RPM work on Ubuntu:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=302887
Linspire claims to have a licensed DVD player in its Click-N-Run set
of software, but that does not seem to be the case. I thought Xandros
had a licensed DVD player too, but I couldn't find it either.
Craig
Scott Granneman
Scott
Scott Granneman
scott
Robert Citek
would be wise if we did it legally.
Regards,
- Robert
Scott Granneman
for individuals, screw it. break the law. it's a stupid law, & it
should be broken.
scott
Robert Citek
ByteWorks' store?
Some options:
- Sorry, you can't play DVDs with Ubuntu Linux
- You can play DVDs using a bungled version of Linux which none of us
are familiar with
- You can play DVDs using Ubuntu Linux but have to pay a fee
- You can play DVDs using Ubuntu Linux but it's illegal
- You can play DVDs using Ubuntu Linux, but you have to set it up
yourself and here's how
- You can play DVDs using Ubuntu Linux and we've set it up for you, legally
Something else?
I'm looking for a palatable solution that I can pass on to volunteers,
students, and the BWorks board.
Regards,
- Robert
Craig Buchek
work around the situation. Better yet, point to Ubuntu's answers.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
Robert Citek
The customer comes to ByteWorks with a DVD of Madagascar[1]. She
inserts the DVD into the DVD tray of a refurbished machine she is
interested in purchasing. She clicks on the "Play DVD" button and the
DVD plays. Satisfied that the machine will play DVDs, she purchases
the machine.
What would I need to do to satisfy that use case, legally?
Naturally, we could come up with some snappy answers such as "install
a pirated copy of Windows" but I find those non-constructive. I'm
looking for plausible solutions using Linux, preferably Ubuntu.
For example, do we purchase licenses? If so, from whom? Can we
create a script and walk the customer through it? Can we pre-install
software for them and have them sign a waiver? Or is it that we will
never satisfy that use case using Linux?
[1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0351283/
Regards,
- Robert
A.M.
On Nov 16, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Robert Citek wrote:
>
> Let me rephrase the scenarion in with a use case:
>
> The customer comes to ByteWorks with a DVD of Madagascar[1]. She
> inserts the DVD into the DVD tray of a refurbished machine she is
> interested in purchasing. She clicks on the "Play DVD" button and the
> DVD plays. Satisfied that the machine will play DVDs, she purchases
> the machine.
>
> What would I need to do to satisfy that use case, legally?
An alternate question is: Given that so many Americans watch DVDs
under Linux without licensing CSS descrambling, have there been any
cases where such a user has been convicted of a crime as according to
the DMCA?
Long discussion here:
http://weblog.ipcentral.info/archives/2006/05/of_errors_and_e.html
Cheers,
M
P.S. Ben Stiller?
Nestor Wheelock
Of course, one way around the problem would be to not install DVD rom drives.
But, again, people have this expectation of playing DVD's in their computers. I don't know a whole lot about the niceties of DVD's and the DMCA, but my gut tells me that a conversation with a prospective customer and a "how to" video screen cast with instructions on enabling the right repositories will be a good learning experience. Legally, (any lawyers please chime in here) I hope you wouldn't be liable for showing someone how it is possible to "break the law" much like teaching someone locksmithing. It's up to the customer to follow the how to, just like it would be for someone to break and enter.
Isn't that right Scott-- just having "hacker" cracking tools and the know-how doesn't necessarily make you a criminal does it??? So what if someone wrote a nice guified script, that's got a click-wrap disclaimer, to edit the necessary files and install the contraband codecs? Would that relieve the programmer from liability (again, lawyers chime in please)?
Byteworks is about being didactic right? Playing DVD's could be the illicity sweetened treat after the trick, and they'd learn about the socio-political facets of using Linux in the USA too. Maybe Byteworks should also have form letters urging changes to the DMCA addressed to the appropriate representatives and senators that the customer could sign and mail-- and maybe everyone on this and every other LUG list could do that too? After all, a law that nearly everyone breaks should be amended so that people aren't breaking it.
Or, perhaps Byteworks should prepare to rely less on computer sales for funding and broaden its teaching mission to include less basic computer users. I'd make a donation to take a Java class with Nate (sorry Nate ;-)
Nestor
tms
> Let me rephrase the scenarion in with a use case:
>
> The customer comes to ByteWorks with a DVD of Madagascar[1]. She
> inserts the DVD into the DVD tray of a refurbished machine she is
> interested in purchasing. She clicks on the "Play DVD" button and the
> DVD plays. Satisfied that the machine will play DVDs, she purchases
> the machine.
>
> What would I need to do to satisfy that use case, legally?
Here is what Canonical says about it:
"In the United States, whether one can use libdvdcss to decrypt DVDs is
governed by Title I of the [WWW]Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).
([WWW]17 U.S.C. Sec. 1201 et seq.) Although the law is technical, it
need not frighten anyone. Decrypting DVDs is legal if the decryption is
done to achieve interoperability of computer programs, such as the
Linux/Ubuntu operating system. (See [WWW]17 U.S.C. Sec. 1201(f)) So, for
instance, if you own a legally-purchased DVD and are trying to play it
on your own computer with Ubuntu, using libdvdcss is legal because you
are merely exercising the license that you acquired when you obtained
the DVD. However, if you use libdvdcss for the purpose of circumventing
copyright protection, such as for file sharing or redistributing the
content, libdvdcss would be classed as an illegal 'circumvention
device'. (For a more detailed description of the DMCA, see the
[WWW]Wikipedia article). Because Canonical cannot know in advance what
you intend to do with libdvdcss, it has decided not to include it in the
regular Ubuntu repositories."
that came from this URL:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
So ... IF (and it's a big IF) Canonical is right, then possibly
ByteWORKS could protect itself by including some kind of clause in the
sales contract, to the effect that purchaser agrees to use libdvdcss
only for legal purposes. Would that be enough? Probably, but what
level of certainty is required here?
A sort-of similar case could be made for certain kinds of paraphenalia
which can be used for illegal purposes but also legal ones. Think "head
shops". Some communities outlaw them, some don't.
> Naturally, we could come up with some snappy answers such as "install
> a pirated copy of Windows" but I find those non-constructive. I'm
> looking for plausible solutions using Linux, preferably Ubuntu.
>
> For example, do we purchase licenses? If so, from whom?
I found a sample contract between Dell and InterVideo ... check out
Schedule A: "This is the list of patents covered by the MPEG-2 Patent
Portfolio License as of April 1, 2002". Scary.
http://contracts.onecle.com/intervideo/dell.settle.2002.04.26.shtml
Evidently a few distros have paid all the licenses, LinSpire is
mentioned as being one of them. It looks hard, and expensive. I think
it would be way beyond our means.
> Can we create a script
Yes, but who maintains it? Keeps it current as distros change and
evolve?
> and walk the customer through it?
Not enough manpower. Also questionable if the end users are savvy
enough. Remember, these aren't kernel hackers, these are the folks who
say "the Internet is down" when their computer won't get past the BIOS
POST.
> Can we pre-install software for them and have them sign a waiver?
I think that would be feasible. It shows intention. Not iron-clad,
though ... again, what level of certainty is required here?
> Or is it that we will
> never satisfy that use case using Linux?
Something I read that makes a great deal of sense is that, since
Canonical has money, they have enough to be lost if they're sued that it
isn't worth it to them to take the risk. Is it for ByteWORKS? It is
never going to be an absolute, but always a matter of interpretation.
Or at least that's my opinion. ;-)
Robert Citek
> Has that scenario occurred?
Which scenario, the use case? In the strictest sense, no, ByteWorks
has not sold any Ubuntu machines that play DVDs. However, we have
sold Windows machines and have had requests from customers to install
DVD players on those Windows machines. Naturally, before we sell the
machine with a DVD player in it, we test it to make sure it can play a
DVD. So the use case is similar although not identical to what has
happened. What is different is that we would like to substitute
Ubuntu for Windows, primarily because of licensing issues with
Windows. If that's not possible or is too cumbersome, then we'll not
do that.
My guess is that ByteWorks will probably put this initiative on hold
until we can find a lawyer to counsel us. But that's just a guess.
Anybody know a lawyer willing to do pro-bono work for a local
not-for-profit?
Regards,
- Robert
Scott Granneman
Scott
Nestor Wheelock
Exciting times I think.
-nestor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Citek" <robert...@gmail.com>
To: cwe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 5:07:32 PM (GMT-0600) America/Mexico_City
Subject: [cwelug] Re: gOS: Where Computers Are Headed?