I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples or the chosen ones to the peoples around them.
Today

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 9:08 PM

One of our camp kids posted this as his facebook status the other day.  It is from DC Talk - "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply find unbelievable."
 
Debbie
 

From: Char...@CookevilleCPChurch.org
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: RE: God is Love
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:51:25 -0600

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I seldom post – as a promise to my mentor Rev. John Lovelace and my beautiful wife of 46 years, Wanda Lou . . . but . . .
 
I cherish being in the ministry – I have been a child of Christ for 57 years . . . I have had the opportunity to witness (at one time making sure that a Muslim was accorded the opportunity to pray his obligatory five times – as his chaplain in the Army – and at another time making sure that an Orthodox Jew received the proper diet -  as chaplains we are responsible for free access) – and I can feel the intense desire to share the good news of Christ . . .
 
I celebrate the Word – in the beginning, which was God, and which dwells among us . . . but I always am amazed at how we sometimes treat one another in the Christian faith – someone has said we are the only religion that shoots it’s wounded.
 
I have just come from the Civil Rights Museum in Memphis – and one again became aware of how we Christians treat other Christians (sometimes in the name of Christ).  I just got an e-mail telling me that President Obama is a Muslim (I don’t mean to be political, but this from a dedicated Christian).
 
I remember what Mahatma Gandhi said (the great non-violent non-Christian leader)  “I would have become a Christian if they had only practiced what they believed.”  Today I am more concerned how we Christians treat one another than how we react toward a non-Christian (as important as that may be). 
 
Our Chaplain endorsing agency has just included another Presbyterian Church – the Korean Presbyterian Church in America – an most of their churches meet for prayer every morning at 4:00 AM – before they begin their busy day – and when they pray they shout “Jesus, Jesus” before their prayers (I was told they take seriously the admonition to “call on the name of Jesus” in prayer).   I am learning every day from other Christians.  I will daily witness for my Lord – but I will also celebrate the many avenues we Christians share.  Today, I’m celebrating the magnificent faith we are a part of, and hoping that we Christians can indeed love one another.  And I hope that all (Christian and non Christian) will look at us and say, “Wow, see how they love one another! – maybe they can teach me something about where they get such love.”
 
Now back to my cave.
 
Grace and peace,
Charles
 
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ' target='_new'>Sign up now.

Something went wrong with my e-mail. I must have hit the wrong button when I was typing. I am going to try to finish my thought.
 

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God/Christians. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples of their status as God's chosen ones to the peoples around them.
    Today, Christians take the Lord's name in vain when we call ourselves CHRISTians and still do things that make someone think, "If that is what a Christian is I don't want to be one." If we are not living for Christ, and living out Jesus' example, we are a hindrance to the Kingdom of God.
   The sad thing is, we as Christians all fall short. It is such a challenge to try to accomplish more good (sharing Gods love) than the harm we cause through hypocrisy. 
   I guess it is just the opposite of how we want to leave a small finger print on the plant earth through living green. As Christians, we should want to leave a really big finger print on the Earth, in the lives (souls) we touch in a positive  way. And again I say, that is quite a challenge.
 
Denise Adams
 

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:34 PM

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples or the chosen ones to the peoples around them.
Today

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 9:08 PM

One of our camp kids posted this as his facebook status the other day.  It is from DC Talk - "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply find unbelievable."
 
Debbie
 

From: Char...@CookevilleCPChurch.org
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: RE: God is Love
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:51:25 -0600

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I seldom post – as a promise to my mentor Rev. John Lovelace and my beautiful wife of 46 years, Wanda Lou . . . but . . .
 
I cherish being in the ministry – I have been a child of Christ for 57 years . . . I have had the opportunity to witness (at one time making sure that a Muslim was accorded the opportunity to pray his obligatory five times – as his chaplain in the Army – and at another time making sure that an Orthodox Jew received the proper diet -  as chaplains we are responsible for free access) – and I can feel the intense desire to share the good news of Christ . . .
 
I celebrate the Word – in the beginning, which was God, and which dwells among us . . . but I always am amazed at how we sometimes treat one another in the Christian faith – someone has said we are the only religion that shoots it’s wounded.
 
I have just come from the Civil Rights Museum in Memphis – and one again became aware of how we Christians treat other Christians (sometimes in the name of Christ).  I just got an e-mail telling me that President Obama is a Muslim (I don’t mean to be political, but this from a dedicated Christian).
 
I remember what Mahatma Gandhi said (the great non-violent non-Christian leader)  “I would have become a Christian if they had only practiced what they believed.”  Today I am more concerned how we Christians treat one another than how we react toward a non-Christian (as important as that may be). 
 
Our Chaplain endorsing agency has just included another Presbyterian Church – the Korean Presbyterian Church in America – an most of their churches meet for prayer every morning at 4:00 AM – before they begin their busy day – and when they pray they shout “Jesus, Jesus” before their prayers (I was told they take seriously the admonition to “call on the name of Jesus” in prayer).   I am learning every day from other Christians.  I will daily witness for my Lord – but I will also celebrate the many avenues we Christians share.  Today, I’m celebrating the magnificent faith we are a part of, and hoping that we Christians can indeed love one another.  And I hope that all (Christian and non Christian) will look at us and say, “Wow, see how they love one another! – maybe they can teach me something about where they get such love.”
 
Now back to my cave.
 
Grace and peace,
Charles
 
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ' target='_new'>Sign up now.

Denise,

  Not sure that I would totally agree with you on the OT meaning of taking God's name in vain.  I have always understood that was a literal misuse of God's name.  I know that many of those who served as scribes would not even write God's name for fear of using it in an inappropriate manner.  How many of us misuse his name?  I can't stand to hear Christian people use God's name as it were just another word in the English language or even more a slang or curse word.  How many people do you know that say " Well my G*d", or "O my G*d".  Is that not taking his name in vain?  I do however agree 100% with you that we as Christians do not live a life that is pleasing to God or one that would make anyone have a reason to become a believer.  I agree that we all fall short of God's glory, but that's not the problem.  The problem that I see is that we don't "fall" we willingly walk right into sin...and enjoy every minute of it.  The biggest obstacle that I face when trying to witness to someone is trying to explain the behavior of my fellow Christians (which I know is not my responsibility).  As I see it there is very little difference in most Christians today and the rest of the non-believing world.  We drink, curse, smoke, cheat, lie, steal, the list could go on forever.  I know a lot of the people even on this list would make excuses for many of these and they can save the time I've already heard most of the best of them.   Maybe I'm from the old school way of thinking but I still hold to Romans 12:1-2.  We should be transformed when we become a believer.  That means we are different from the world.  Just as you said, many are turned away because of our hypocrisy.  May God forgive us...

Nicholas Chambers
Bethesda Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Camden, AR
www.bethesdacpchurch.org

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 20:53:07 -0800
From: bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com

Something went wrong with my e-mail. I must have hit the wrong button when I was typing. I am going to try to finish my thought.

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God/Christians. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples of their status as God's chosen ones to the peoples around them.
    Today, Christians take the Lord's name in vain when we call ourselves CHRISTians and still do things that make someone think, "If that is what a Christian is I don't want to be one." If we are not living for Christ, and living out Jesus' example, we are a hindrance to the Kingdom of God.
   The sad thing is, we as Christians all fall short. It is such a challenge to try to accomplish more good (sharing Gods love) than the harm we cause through hypocrisy.
   I guess it is just the opposite of how we want to leave a small finger print on the plant earth through living green. As Christians, we should want to leave a really big finger print on the Earth, in the lives (souls) we touch in a positive  way. And again I say, that is quite a challenge.

Denise Adams

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:34 PM

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples or the chosen ones to the peoples around them.
Today

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 9:08 PM

One of our camp kids posted this as his facebook status the other day.  It is from DC Talk - "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply find unbelievable."

Debbie

From: Char...@CookevilleCPChurch.org
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: RE: God is Love
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:51:25 -0600

I seldom post – as a promise to my mentor Rev. John Lovelace and my beautiful wife of 46 years, Wanda Lou . . . but . . .

I cherish being in the ministry – I have been a child of Christ for 57 years . . . I have had the opportunity to witness (at one time making sure that a Muslim was accorded the opportunity to pray his obligatory five times – as his chaplain in the Army – and at another time making sure that an Orthodox Jew received the proper diet -  as chaplains we are responsible for free access) – and I can feel the intense desire to share the good news of Christ . . .

I celebrate the Word – in the beginning, which was God, and which dwells among us . . . but I always am amazed at how we sometimes treat one another in the Christian faith – someone has said we are the only religion that shoots it’s wounded.

I have just come from the Civil Rights Museum in Memphis – and one again became aware of how we Christians treat other Christians (sometimes in the name of Christ).  I just got an e-mail telling me that President Obama is a Muslim (I don’t mean to be political, but this from a dedicated Christian).

I remember what Mahatma Gandhi said (the great non-violent non-Christian leader)  “I would have become a Christian if they had only practiced what they believed.”  Today I am more concerned how we Christians treat one another than how we react toward a non-Christian (as important as that may be).  

Our Chaplain endorsing agency has just included another Presbyterian Church – the Korean Presbyterian Church in America – an most of their churches meet for prayer every morning at 4:00 AM – before they begin their busy day – and when they pray they shout “Jesus, Jesus” before their prayers (I was told they take seriously the admonition to “call on the name of Jesus” in prayer).   I am learning every day from other Christians.  I will daily witness for my Lord – but I will also celebrate the many avenues we Christians share.  Today, I’m celebrating the magnificent faith we are a part of, and hoping that we Christians can indeed love one another.  And I hope that all (Christian and non Christian) will look at us and say, “Wow, see how they love one another! – maybe they can teach me something about where they get such love.”

Now back to my cave.

Grace and peace,
Charles

http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ' target='_new'>Sign up now.

</table

_________________________________________________________________
Find the right PC with Windows 7 and Windows Live.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/pc-scout/laptop-set-criteria.aspx?cb...

Excellent points, Jason.

Peace,
Dwight Liles

Lon, I can only say you've lived a very sheltered life.

Peace,
Dwight Liles

"He who is without sin let him cast the first stone." ---- Paul wrote in his epistles," What I do not want to do I do and what I want to do I do not do." Yes we are to grow in grace and turn from these things but each an everyone has areas in their life they still struggle even if it is judging others to harshly to help us feel better. I do not like it when I sin and mess up but it still happens. Jesus did not do His finished work, clean us up and say now you are on your own. He died and rose defeating death for my sins that I confessed before I was a Christian and for the ones I stumble into after becoming a Christian. Not one of us can point the finger at someone without pointing 3 fingers and a thumb back at ourselves. We do not know how far God has brought some Christian in their life already and where they were before. I am not trying to be disagreeable but these are my understanding at this point. I appreciate no one has been dealing with issues
 instead of attacking people for their understanding were God has them now. .When we are diisagreeing with one another we are not rejecting that person.Thank you for letting me participate. Love to each of you.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, & self-control. Gal. 5:22
 Deborah Skillington
      Columbia, TN 38401

________________________________
From: nicholas chambers <nacham...@hotmail.com>
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 11:35:18 PM
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love

 Denise,
  Not sure that I would totally agree with you on the OT meaning of taking God's name in vain.  I have always understood that was a literal misuse of God's name.  I know that many of those who served as scribes would not even write God's name for fear of using it in an inappropriate manner.  How many of us misuse his name?  I can't stand to hear Christian people use God's name as it were just another word in the English language or even more a slang or curse word.  How many people do you know that say " Well my G*d", or "O my G*d".  Is that not taking his name in vain?  I do however agree 100% with you that we as Christians do not live a life that is pleasing to God or one that would make anyone have a reason to become a believer.  I agree that we all fall short of God's glory, but that's not the problem.  The problem that I see is that we don't "fall" we willingly walk right into sin...and enjoy every minute of it.  The biggest obstacle that I face when
 trying to witness to someone is trying to explain the behavior of my fellow Christians (which I know is not my responsibility).  As I see it there is very little difference in most Christians today and the rest of the non-believing world.  We drink, curse, smoke, cheat, lie, steal, the list could go on forever.  I know a lot of the people even on this list would make excuses for many of these and they can save the time I've already heard most of the best of them.   Maybe I'm from the old school way of thinking but I still hold to Romans 12:1-2.  We should be transformed when we become a believer.  That means we are different from the world.  Just as you said, many are turned away because of our hypocrisy.  May God forgive us...

Nicholas Chambers
Bethesda Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Camden, AR
www.bethesdacpchurch.org

________________________________
 Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 20:53:07 -0800
From: bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com

Something went wrong with my e-mail. I must have hit the wrong button when I was typing. I am going to try to finish my thought.

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God/Christians. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples of their status as God's chosen ones to the peoples around them.
    Today, Christians take the Lord's name in vain when we call ourselves CHRISTians and still do things that make someone think, "If that is what a Christian is I don't want to be one." If we are not living for Christ, and living out Jesus' example, we are a hindrance to the Kingdom of God.
   The sad thing is, we as Christians all fall short. It is such a challenge to try to accomplish more good (sharing Gods love) than the harm we cause through hypocrisy.
   I guess it is just the opposite of how we want to leave a small finger print on the plant earth through living green. As Christians, we should want to leave a really big finger print on the Earth, in the lives (souls) we touch in a positive  way. And again I say, that is quite a challenge.

Denise Adams

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nicholas wrote, "As I see it there is very little difference in most Christians today and the rest of the non-believing world. We drink, cuse, smoke, cheat, lie, steal, the list could go on forever."  NO!  NO! NO!  There is no list!!!   1 Corinthians 6:9-11 gives us the list.  WHY ARE WE AFRAID TO BE FRUIT INSPECTORS??  Why do we allow just anyone to call themself a "Christian". Are Scriptures normative or not? "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdow of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicatior, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God." THIS CHRISTIAN DOES NOT LIVE LIKE THE WORLD. Key words in the passage - "deceived" - "were" . The problem is that we preachers allow these deceived folks to sit in the pew with a sense they are heaven bound when the Word says they are on the road to hell. I don't judge, the Word does.    

Great thoughts, from many different  angles. It is good to see so many
C.P.s grounded in the Word of God, who have  had an experience worth telling the
world about.

By the grace of God, we are  born-again Christians, forgiven and cleansed.  
There may be times we loose  the joy of our salvation, we will never loose
our salvation, for Christ paid in  full for that assurance with His own
blood on the cross. There can be  no  ex-Christians.

Those so called  ex-Christians only experienced "puppy-love",  lacking  
understanding, when their hearts were childish, regardless of age. It wasn't
the "real  thing".

Pardon the trivia,  just  remember and smile.

Vera

In a message dated 11/5/2009 1:38:39 P.M. Central Standard Time,  

I guess I do not get your point. Dwight.  It is obvious that you do not know Lon.  He has lived anything but a "sheltered life."  You will not find a man any more dedicated to Christ than Lon.  You may not agree with what he says, but listen to him with an open mind.  I understand what he is saying - Vera just said the same thing in her post this morning.

J. Don

I think what turns the world off is our lack of honesty.  If we are struggling with a sin, we should be willing to say that we are struggling with a sin rather than projecting the image of "I'm a Christian and I've got my act together".  We know when we sin; as a matter of fact, we choose to sin.  Our dishonesty turns away more people than our sin.  If we were honest about our struggles, the struggling world would be able to indentify with us and listen to our testimony of being sinners saved by grace, but not yet perfect.  Sometimes God frees someone from their desires and addictions as soon as they become Christians - sometimes God allows that person to struggle through a process.  If we are honest about the process and allow people to watch the changes as God is making them in us, then they will know that there is hope that God can change them, too.  But, when we claim to be "holy" while the world sees us living sinful lives (cheating on our spouses, stealing from our company, cursing, holding grudges, etc.), the world has sufficient reason to wonder about the all-powerful, all-righteous God we claim to serve.  As someone has already referenced, our fruit says everything about our relationship with Jesus Christ -whether we are good fruit or have just been waxed and polished so we look good on the outside.

Debbie

From: nacham...@hotmail.com
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 23:35:18 -0600

Denise,
  Not sure that I would totally agree with you on the OT meaning of taking God's name in vain.  I have always understood that was a literal misuse of God's name.  I know that many of those who served as scribes would not even write God's name for fear of using it in an inappropriate manner.  How many of us misuse his name?  I can't stand to hear Christian people use God's name as it were just another word in the English language or even more a slang or curse word.  How many people do you know that say " Well my G*d", or "O my G*d".  Is that not taking his name in vain?  I do however agree 100% with you that we as Christians do not live a life that is pleasing to God or one that would make anyone have a reason to become a believer.  I agree that we all fall short of God's glory, but that's not the problem.  The problem that I see is that we don't "fall" we willingly walk right into sin...and enjoy every minute of it.  The biggest obstacle that I face when trying to witness to someone is trying to explain the behavior of my fellow Christians (which I know is not my responsibility).  As I see it there is very little difference in most Christians today and the rest of the non-believing world.  We drink, curse, smoke, cheat, lie, steal, the list could go on forever.  I know a lot of the people even on this list would make excuses for many of these and they can save the time I've already heard most of the best of them.   Maybe I'm from the old school way of thinking but I still hold to Romans 12:1-2.  We should be transformed when we become a believer.  That means we are different from the world.  Just as you said, many are turned away because of our hypocrisy.  May God forgive us...

Nicholas Chambers
Bethesda Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Camden, AR
www.bethesdacpchurch.org

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 20:53:07 -0800
From: bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com

Something went wrong with my e-mail. I must have hit the wrong button when I was typing. I am going to try to finish my thought.

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God/Christians. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples of their status as God's chosen ones to the peoples around them.
    Today, Christians take the Lord's name in vain when we call ourselves CHRISTians and still do things that make someone think, "If that is what a Christian is I don't want to be one." If we are not living for Christ, and living out Jesus' example, we are a hindrance to the Kingdom of God.
   The sad thing is, we as Christians all fall short. It is such a challenge to try to accomplish more good (sharing Gods love) than the harm we cause through hypocrisy.
   I guess it is just the opposite of how we want to leave a small finger print on the plant earth through living green. As Christians, we should want to leave a really big finger print on the Earth, in the lives (souls) we touch in a positive  way. And again I say, that is quite a challenge.

Denise Adams

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:34 PM

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples or the chosen ones to the peoples around them.
Today

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 9:08 PM

One of our camp kids posted this as his facebook status the other day.  It is from DC Talk - "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply find unbelievable."

Debbie

From: Char...@CookevilleCPChurch.org
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: RE: God is Love
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:51:25 -0600

I seldom post – as a promise to my mentor Rev. John Lovelace and my beautiful wife of 46 years, Wanda Lou . . . but . . .

I cherish being in the ministry – I have been a child of Christ for 57 years . . . I have had the opportunity to witness (at one time making sure that a Muslim was accorded the opportunity to pray his obligatory five times – as his chaplain in the Army – and at another time making sure that an Orthodox Jew received the proper diet -  as chaplains we are responsible for free access) – and I can feel the intense desire to share the good news of Christ . . .

I celebrate the Word – in the beginning, which was God, and which dwells among us . . . but I always am amazed at how we sometimes treat one another in the Christian faith – someone has said we are the only religion that shoots it’s wounded.

I have just come from the Civil Rights Museum in Memphis – and one again became aware of how we Christians treat other Christians (sometimes in the name of Christ).  I just got an e-mail telling me that President Obama is a Muslim (I don’t mean to be political, but this from a dedicated Christian).

I remember what Mahatma Gandhi said (the great non-violent non-Christian leader)  “I would have become a Christian if they had only practiced what they believed.”  Today I am more concerned how we Christians treat one another than how we react toward a non-Christian (as important as that may be).  

Our Chaplain endorsing agency has just included another Presbyterian Church – the Korean Presbyterian Church in America – an most of their churches meet for prayer every morning at 4:00 AM – before they begin their busy day – and when they pray they shout “Jesus, Jesus” before their prayers (I was told they take seriously the admonition to “call on the name of Jesus” in prayer).   I am learning every day from other Christians.  I will daily witness for my Lord – but I will also celebrate the many avenues we Christians share.  Today, I’m celebrating the magnificent faith we are a part of, and hoping that we Christians can indeed love one another.  And I hope that all (Christian and non Christian) will look at us and say, “Wow, see how they love one another! – maybe they can teach me something about where they get such love.”

Now back to my cave.

Grace and peace,
Charles

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I'm willing to listen with an open mind.  Just know this, all of you.  I personally  know people who have been driven from the church by the hatred and hypocrisy of people who call themselves Christians, and who have found more love and acceptance in some other type of religious community.  I know what I'm talking about here.

Believe it or not, there are some religious communities out there beyond the Christian movement that are a lot better at nurturing wounded spirits than many of us are.  

Peace,
Dwight Liles

The question is then, what should we as Cumberland  Presbyterians do to be
more nurturing to the wounded spirits among us?  We  learn that "offences
will come, but woe to those by whom they come".

Is it that our actions speak so loudly that they can't  hear what we say?

Vera

In a message dated 11/6/2009 9:46:34 A.M. Central Standard Time,  

Your walk talks and your talk talks, however, your walk talks louder than
your talk talks.

Bob

Bob Rutledge

Bob Rutledge Advertising

1751 Cedar St., P.O. Box 625

McKenzie, TN 38201

www.rutledgeadv.com

  _____  

From: cumberlist@googlegroups.com [mailto:cumberlist@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Veral...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:26 AM
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: ex-Christians

The question is then, what should we as Cumberland Presbyterians do to be
more nurturing to the wounded spirits among us?  We learn that "offences
will come, but woe to those by whom they come".

Is it that our actions speak so loudly that they can't hear what we say?

Vera

In a message dated 11/6/2009 9:46:34 A.M. Central Standard Time,

image001.jpg 40K Download

With all of this discussion, we need to remember that no man will be able to stand before God and use the excuse "I'm not a Christian because of your people."  I'm sure we could all use the same excuse.  But all that is, is an excuse that the depraved, unbelieving man uses to justify his
conscious/unconscious hatred for God.  When he goes to another religion, he is just exalting
what he always wanted to exalt, even when he was a "christian" - himself.
As previous, we all could use the same excuse but we understand what many have already said - that we are saved yet sinners, still working through our sanctification - and we realize that fact when we deal with our brothers and sisters in Christ.  Those that leave for another religion never wanted what Christ offered in the first place.  They wanted the idea of something they had created in their own deceived minds.
Not to say that you all are not a bunch of knuckleheads that are probably terribly intolerable to hang out with.  ;)

Todd

From: dwightli...@att.net
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: ex-Christians
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:44:52 -0600

I'm willing to listen with an open mind.  Just know this, all of
you.  I personally  know people who have been driven from the church
by the hatred and hypocrisy of people who call themselves Christians, and who
have found more love and acceptance in some other type of religious
community.  I know what I'm talking about here.

Believe it or not, there are some religious communities out there beyond
the Christian movement that are a lot better at nurturing wounded spirits
than many of us are.  

Peace,
Dwight Liles

Debbie you said it better than I could ever say it. Thank you. That is what I am talking about. God bless you and all.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, & self-control. Gal. 5:22
 Deborah Skillington
      Columbia, TN 38401

________________________________
From: Debra Shanks <royndeb...@hotmail.com>
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:14:16 AM
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love

 I think what turns the world off is our lack of honesty.  If we are struggling with a sin, we should be willing to say that we are struggling with a sin rather than projecting the image of "I'm a Christian and I've got my act together".  We know when we sin; as a matter of fact, we choose to sin.  Our dishonesty turns away more people than our sin.  If we were honest about our struggles, the struggling world would be able to indentify with us and listen to our testimony of being sinners saved by grace, but not yet perfect.  Sometimes God frees someone from their desires and addictions as soon as they become Christians - sometimes God allows that person to struggle through a process.  If we are honest about the process and allow people to watch the changes as God is making them in us, then they will know that there is hope that God can change them, too.  But, when we claim to be "holy" while the world sees us living sinful lives (cheating on our spouses,
 stealing from our company, cursing, holding grudges, etc.), the world has sufficient reason to wonder about the all-powerful, all-righteous God we claim to serve.  As someone has already referenced, our fruit says everything about our relationship with Jesus Christ -whether we are good fruit or have just been waxed and polished so we look good on the outside.

Debbie

________________________________
 From: nacham...@hotmail.com
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 23:35:18 -0600

 Denise,
  Not sure that I would totally agree with you on the OT meaning of taking God's name in vain.  I have always understood that was a literal misuse of God's name.  I know that many of those who served as scribes would not even write God's name for fear of using it in an inappropriate manner.  How many of us misuse his name?  I can't stand to hear Christian people use God's name as it were just another word in the English language or even more a slang or curse word.  How many people do you know that say " Well my G*d", or "O my G*d".  Is that not taking his name in vain?  I do however agree 100% with you that we as Christians do not live a life that is pleasing to God or one that would make anyone have a reason to become a believer.  I agree that we all fall short of God's glory, but that's not the problem.  The problem that I see is that we don't "fall" we willingly walk right into sin...and enjoy every minute of it.  The biggest obstacle that I face when
 trying to witness to someone is trying to explain the behavior of my fellow Christians (which I know is not my responsibility).  As I see it there is very little difference in most Christians today and the rest of the non-believing world.  We drink, curse, smoke, cheat, lie, steal, the list could go on forever.  I know a lot of the people even on this list would make excuses for many of these and they can save the time I've already heard most of the best of them.   Maybe I'm from the old school way of thinking but I still hold to Romans 12:1-2.  We should be transformed when we become a believer.  That means we are different from the world.  Just as you said, many are turned away because of our hypocrisy.  May God forgive us...

Nicholas Chambers
Bethesda Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Camden, AR
www.bethesdacpchurch.org

________________________________
 Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 20:53:07 -0800
From: bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Cumberlist: Re: God is Love
To: cumberlist@googlegroups.com

Something went wrong with my e-mail. I must have hit the wrong button when I was typing. I am going to try to finish my thought.

I was just telling someone that I believe the Commandment that tells us not to take the Lord's name in vain has little or nothing to do with cursing- even GD. It has to do with how we live out our name as Children of God/Christians. The Old Testament Israelites took God's name in vain when they were poor examples of their status as God's chosen ones to the peoples around them.
    Today, Christians take the Lord's name in vain when we call ourselves CHRISTians and still do things that make someone think, "If that is what a Christian is I don't want to be one." If we are not living for Christ, and living out Jesus' example, we are a hindrance to the Kingdom of God.
   The sad thing is, we as Christians all fall short. It is such a challenge to try to accomplish more good (sharing Gods love) than the harm we cause through hypocrisy.
   I guess it is just the opposite of how we want to leave a small finger print on the plant earth through living green. As Christians, we should want to leave a really big finger print on the Earth, in the lives (souls) we touch in a positive  way. And again I say, that is quite a challenge.

Denise Adams

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Denise Adams <bdacumberl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Derek,

I am encouraged when I see posts like yours.  I notice an increased number of younger ministers (assuming your youth) who profess a great faithfulness to the Word and understanding of the "New Birth".    It seems to me sometimes, we have been through a long Winter of  man centered theology and now we are seeing an emerging Spring with spiritual flowers blooming all around us.

Once born, I have difficulty understanding how you get unborn.  It is His faithfulness that keeps us, not ours.

I push on, amazed by His marvelous grace.

Bert Owen

E-MAIL:                    BertOrPatO...@insightbb.com

How sweet is that!  "It is His faithfulness that keeps us, not ours."  I
learned from a great pastor's wife not to put your trust in man anyway.
They'll only let you down.  Jesus is the ONLY one we put our trust in.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Bert Owen <bertorpato...@insightbb.com>wrote:

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