Power Review

[Sean Worcester]

Hello,

 

So I am starting my first Wild Talents game and I am building all the powers for my players based off of their wants.  I was hoping I could get some suggestions/critics.

 

The First PC wanted a Mimic who picked her forms from the minds of people around her.  She would have to mindscan her targets and would become someone that they knew.  This would give her basic knowledge of who she had become and a basic understanding on how to act but no shared knoweldge of what the person knew. I added Power Mimic so that the PC would be able to copy Talents as well as Baselines. 

 

Here is my build...Thoughts?

 

 

Polymorph PC ver2
							Price	amount	Cost	Total
Mimic			8				8	5	40	72
							16	0	0
Useful:Dead Ringer		4	Dead Ringer				32	1	32
Quality		2
Capacity: Self		0
Endless		3
Variable Effect		4
Self only		-3
Attached:Mind Scan		-2
Automatic		-1
Useful: Size Shift Down		1
Qualtiy		2
Capacity: Mass		0
Endless		3
Self Only		-3
Attached: Dead Ringer		-2
Automatic		-1
Useful: Size Shift Up		1
Qualtiy		2
Capacity: Mass		0
Endless		3
Self Only		-3
Attached:Dead Ringer		-2
Automatic		-1
Useful: Mind Scan		2
Qualtiy		2
Capacity: Range		0
Subtle		1
If/Then		-1	Cannot read Memories or thoughts, just scan for people and basic impressions
							Price	amount	Cost	Total
Power Mimic			12				12	4	48	96
							24	0	0
Attack		4					48	1	48
Quality		2
Capacity: N/A		0								168
Duration		2
Variable Effect		4
Attached:Mimic		-1
Automatic		-1
If/Then		-1	Variable Effect must match subjects powers
If/Then		-1	Only for Variable Effect
Defends		4
Quality		2
Capacity:N/A		0
Duration		2
Variable Effect		4
Attached:Mimic		-1
Automatic		-1
If/Then		-1	Variable Effect must match subjects powers
If/Then		-1	Only for Variable Effect
Useful		4
Quality		2
Capacity:N/A		0
Duration		2
Variable Effect		4
Attached:Mimic		-1
Automatic		-1
If/Then		-1	Variable Effect must match subjects powers
If/Then		-1	Only for Variable Effect

--

--Sean Worcester 

[John Poole]

Hi Sean,

I'm relatively new, too, but the guys have helped me on a bunch. There's still the occasional weirdness I can't resolve, and one or two places where the rules conflict with the examples, but let's see....

Copying the form of people the subject knows is easy. You as GM will have to keep a handy list of likely choices for each potential target, but mechanically the power is easy to build. One issue I see is you Attached the shapechange to the mind scan. Someone might have a different opinion, but to me "Attached" means the power goes for as long as the power it's attached to is running. So the mindscan would be continual. Either add a duration or endless to the scan or change the Attached to an If/Then. Either ways adds to the cost but the first way makes the power work as you seem to intend:

Mimic 2hd (U U U U; 5+2+2+2=11/die; 44 points)

Useful (Mind Scan) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Subtle +1, If/Then (Can't read thoughts; basic impressions only) -1 Capacity: Range

Useful (Shapechange) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Variable Effect +4, Attached (Mind Scan) -2, Automatic -1, If/Then: (Variable Effect is only for choosing shape of someone target knows) -1, Self Only -3. Capacity: Self

Useful (Size Change Up) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Attached (Shapechange) -2, Automatic -1. Capacity: Self

Useful (Size Change Down) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Attached (Shapechange) -2, Automatic -1. Capacity: Self

You could also change all those Endless to Duration. Might be appropriate for a character shifting based on people he meets, and would drop the cost by 4 points.

Alternately, us an if/then on the shapechange:

Mimic 2hd (U U U U; 2+4+2+2=10/die; 40 points)

Useful (Mind Scan) Extras & Flaws: Subtle +1, If/Then (Can't read thoughts; basic impressions only) -1 Capacity: Range

Useful (Shapechange) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Variable Effect +4, If Then (Must Mind Scan First) -1, If/Then: (Variable Effect is only for choosing shape of someone target knows) -1, Self Only -3. Capacity: Self

Useful (Size Change Up) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Attached (Shapechange) -2, Automatic -1. Capacity: Self

Useful (Size Change Down) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Attached (Shapechange) -2, Automatic -1. Capacity: Self

Again, you can change Endless to Duration to save a few points. In either case you might consider dropping the size change. If the PCs is around 150 pounds, the shift will let her adopt most people without need for the size shift. Size Shift really just enables extremes. Without those components, the cost of 2hd drops a fair amount.

For the Power Mimic portion of your power, I have a slight issue which might be nitpicking. The If/Then (Variable Effect must match subject's powers), the "subject" is the person you scanned, but the form is someone they know. They haven't scanned the person, to the limitation would draw on... the subjects assumptions?

Power Mimic 4d+1wd (A D U; 3+3+3=9/die; 72 points)

Attacks Extras & Flaws: Duration +2, Variable Effect +4, Attached (Shapechange) -2; Automatic -1, If/Then (Variable Effect Must Match Powers Subject is Aware of on the mimicked person) -1, If/Then (Only for Variable Effect) -1 Capacity: N/A
Defends Extras & Flaws: Duration +2, Variable Effect +4, Attached (Shapechange) -2; Automatic -1, If/Then (Variable Effect Must Match Powers Subject is Aware of on the mimicked person) -1, If/Then (Only for Variable Effect) -1 Capacity: N/A
Useful Extras & Flaws: Duration +2, Variable Effect +4, Attached (Shapechange) -2; Automatic -1, If/Then (Variable Effect Must Match Powers Subject is Aware of on the mimicked person) -1, If/Then (Only for Variable Effect) -1 Capacity: N/A

This limits the PC to powers the subject knows the person has. This means record keeping for you. :) Again, this might just be my nitpick.

I'd make the Duration/Endless Extras on BOTH powers match and adjust costs accordingly, whichever way you decide to go.

That's my two cents.

[Sean Worcester]

Hello Longspeak, thanks for the help!  I am in need of someone to bounce these build off of.

One issue I see is you Attached the shapechange to the mind scan. Someone might have a different opinion, but to me "Attached" means the power goes for as long as the power it's attached to is running. So the mindscan would be continual.

hmm ok I didn't get that interpretation for Attached when I read it's description.  The way I read it was that it forces one Miracle's activation to be dependent upon another Miracles activation. I wanted the Dead Ringer/Shape Change Miracle to be dependent on a successful Mind Scan. After the Mind Scan goes off, the Dead Ringer/Shape Change is automatically triggered and can only be used in conjunction upon a successful Mind Scan.  To reflect the momentary application of Mind Scan I didn't give it a "Time" descriptor like Duration or Endless as the initial idea was that the PC would scan a Target, assume the shape with a basic idea of who it was suppose to be based on the targets perception.  That is why I initially only gave the Dead Ringer portion of the Miracle a "Time" descriptor  I originally decided on Endless to give the PC some ability as a deep cover operative if the Player so chose, but your suggestion is a good way to save a few points and I kind of like the PC being unable to really hold a form for a long period of time so yeah I'm going to change the Endless to Duration.   What do you think about my reasoning for Attached and Automatic?

 

 

Alternately, us an if/then on the shapechange:

Useful (Shapechange) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Variable Effect +4, If Then (Must Mind Scan First) -1, If/Then: (Variable Effect is only for choosing shape of someone target knows) -1, Self Only -3. Capacity: Self

 

yeah I like this...Thanks!

 In either case you might consider dropping the size change. If the PCs is around 150 pounds, the shift will let her adopt most people without need for the size shift. Size Shift really just enables extremes. Without those components, the cost of 2hd drops a fair amount.

Well the Player expressed the ability to go from a 3 year old to Andre the Giant so I though Size Shift was needed...+ its like 1 point
 

For the Power Mimic portion of your power, I have a slight issue which might be nitpicking. The If/Then (Variable Effect must match subject's powers), the "subject" is the person you scanned, but the form is someone they know. They haven't scanned the person, to the limitation would draw on... the subjects assumptions?

 

Damn good catch I didn't even see that.  So I will talk to the Player that maybe Power Mimic isn't a good fit with the drawback that they were so keen on.

This limits the PC to powers the subject knows the person has. This means record keeping for you. :) Again, this might just be my nitpick.

Yeah I am not to keen on lots of extra record keeping...

That's my two cents..

Man you rock thanks!  I have 4 other PC's power sets created if you have some spare time and the inclination you mind giving them a critical eye?

[John Poole]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Sean Worcester <worcest...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Longspeak, thanks for the help!  I am in need of someone to bounce these build off of.

One issue I see is you Attached the shapechange to the mind scan. Someone might have a different opinion, but to me "Attached" means the power goes for as long as the power it's attached to is running. So the mindscan would be continual.

What do you think about my reasoning for Attached and Automatic?

The reasoning hinges on the interpretation of the Attached flaw. I'd love a more experienced person to weigh in, but I stand by my interpretation for now. A -2 flaw is supposed to be pretty limiting, so I'd say the Attached power isn't dependent on the activation of the primary power, but on the continuous operation of the primary power. If the primary goes down, the attached power goes down.

I was thinking about it and I realized I also don't like Automatic Flaw for this power. Imagine the Player scanning someone and finding no useful candidates for copying. But the automatic flaw means he MUST change into someone. Could be good for one time comedy relief. :P

 

Alternately, use an if/then on the shapechange:

Useful (Shapechange) Extras & Flaws: Endless +3, Variable Effect +4, If Then (Must Mind Scan First) -1, If/Then: (Variable Effect is only for choosing shape of someone target knows) -1, Self Only -3. Capacity: Self

 

yeah I like this...Thanks!

I did something similar for a PC in my game. She samples DNA with touch, then can assume the shape of the person she sampled. We used an If/Then (Last DNA Scanned) for the shift.

 

 In either case you might consider dropping the size change. If the PCs is around 150 pounds, the shift will let her adopt most people without need for the size shift. Size Shift really just enables extremes. Without those components, the cost of 2hd drops a fair amount.

Well the Player expressed the ability to go from a 3 year old to Andre the Giant so I though Size Shift was needed...+ its like 1 point

Then yeah. You need size shift. :P  Although, if you estimate the PC at 160 pounds, you need three levels to get down to 3-year old (estimating 20 pounds), but only two to get up to Andre the Giant.

 

For the Power Mimic portion of your power, I have a slight issue which might be nitpicking. The If/Then (Variable Effect must match subject's powers), the "subject" is the person you scanned, but the form is someone they know. They haven't scanned the person, to the limitation would draw on... the subjects assumptions?

 

Damn good catch I didn't even see that.  So I will talk to the Player that maybe Power Mimic isn't a good fit with the drawback that they were so keen on.

This limits the PC to powers the subject knows the person has. This means record keeping for you. :) Again, this might just be my nitpick.

Yeah I am not to keen on lots of extra record keeping...

That's my two cents..

Man you rock thanks!  I have 4 other PC's power sets created if you have some spare time and the inclination you mind giving them a critical eye?

I'm happy to help, time permitting. I think there's people here who might be better at it, but I have some time to kill. :)

John

[Daniel Kane]

Sean --

 

I agree with John about Attached (and Automatic).  Attached, by the book, means that you can only get a set with the quality when the quality (or miracle, skill, or stat)
that it's attached to has a set.  Duration, etc. implicitly repeat the initially rolled set until the duration ends or it's canceled.

 

Oh, and any Attached quality that doesn't have Permanent will require you to roll an action to activate.  Permanent lets you roll it instantly as a non-action as soon as the power it's attached activates.  If you want complex transformations with Size Shift or power mimicry to take longer (requiring multiple sets, and/or sets over additional turns)  leave it as-is.  I'd ditch Automatic, though, since it requires you to attempt multiple actions with Automatic powers EVERY TIME you activate the quality it's attached to, even if you don't need to change size or emulate powers!

 

Also, I actually find your spreadsheet power layout hard to read, and it makes the message long enough that it's getting clipped by Gmail or Google Groups (so I have to open the full message in another tab).  I'm personally more likely to offer feedback if it's in a more concise format, like the common one used in the books.

 

-- Daniel

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:58 AM, John Poole <longspea...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Sean Worcester <worcest...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Longspeak, thanks for the help!  I am in need of someone to bounce these build off of.

One issue I see is you Attached the shapechange to the mind scan. Someone might have a different opinion, but to me "Attached" means the power goes for as long as the power it's attached to is running. So the mindscan would be continual.

What do you think about my reasoning for Attached and Automatic?

The reasoning hinges on the interpretation of the Attached flaw. I'd love a more experienced person to weigh in, but I stand by my interpretation for now. A -2 flaw is supposed to be pretty limiting, so I'd say the Attached power isn't dependent on the activation of the primary power, but on the continuous operation of the primary power. If the primary goes down, the attached power goes down.

I was thinking about it and I realized I also don't like Automatic Flaw for this power. Imagine the Player scanning someone and finding no useful candidates for copying. But the automatic flaw means he MUST change into someone. Could be good for one time comedy relief. :P

 

John

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[John Poole]

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Daniel Kane <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sean --

 

I agree with John about Attached (and Automatic).  Attached, by the book, means that you can only get a set with the quality when the quality (or miracle, skill, or stat) that it's attached to has a set.  Duration, etc. implicitly repeat the initially rolled set until the duration ends or it's canceled.

 

Oh, and any Attached quality that doesn't have Permanent will require you to roll an action to activate.

The description of automatic says "...unless its already activated via the Duration or Endless extra."
I thought that meant it would go automatically when the primary goes.
Does it instead mean "if it was previously activated in the scene it doesn't need to be rolled again?"

 

Permanent lets you roll it instantly as a non-action as soon as the power it's attached activates.  If you want complex transformations with Size Shift or power mimicry to take longer (requiring multiple sets, and/or sets over additional turns)  leave it as-is.  I'd ditch Automatic, though, since it requires you to attempt multiple actions with Automatic powers EVERY TIME you activate the quality it's attached to, even if you don't need to change size or emulate powers!

 

Also, I actually find your spreadsheet power layout hard to read, and it makes the message long enough that it's getting clipped by Gmail or Google Groups (so I have to open the full message in another tab).  I'm personally more likely to offer feedback if it's in a more concise format, like the common one used in the books.

I agree on the spreadsheet format. It didn't convert into the email/groups format very nicely. That's why I converted my examples to the format I swiped from the book. Easier to read.

 

John

[Daniel Kane]

The second one.  If you activate an Automatic Power with Attached(Power A) and Duration with Power A, and then cancel Power A but not the Automatic one, your Automatic power will keep "rolling" sets (that have no effect, because the power it's Attached to isn't producing sets).  If you reactivate Power A, the Automatic Power will be active again.

 

It's sort of an edge case.

 

-- Daniel

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